That's not what "local" means.

Redhage and Ballinger weren't?

Alright fair enough but both had lengthy careers in the NBL as imports then became naturalised later in their careers.

Not a bad subject for discussion

The word you're looking for is Naturalized.

Yes, there used to be a lot more players who did that. I remember when the Cats had 3. Redhage was our last, and yes I think Lisch is the only one currently in the league.
(Although players like Majok, Deng, Vukona, are also Naturalised)

Things that may have changed, and its just my opinion, is the overall quality of our imports, more opportunities in Europe, and the advent of the D-League.
I remember when Ricky Grace got like a 2 game tryout with IIRC Atlanta, and that was rare. Now its quite common for our better imports to keep trying out at Summer-League, getting gigs in Europe, etc.

Plus in those days it was a huge advantage to be naturalised. Imports were the top guns, and locals of marquee quality were rare.

I did love the days when the great imports came and made their homes here, but in some ways it was their longevity that made them great. Now days they get replaced once their performance drops.

Overall, the current rules aren't conducive. Many teams will either run an import short, or pick up a cheapo to fill that 3rd spot.

"Naturalised" had a specific meaning. I think a player had to be resident in Australia for 3 years. Citizenship is different again. In basketball terms it makes a player eligible to represent their country of citizenship (with exceptions like Kyrie Irving who've already “chosen” their country to represent.

With NZ Breakers in NBL now, players can move between 2 countries. We’ve already had a single player exception to the “locals” criteria.

“Although players like Majok, Deng, Vukona, are also Naturalised”.

I think Deng and Majok are citizens of Australia. I would also think they’re in a different category, having migrated whilst they were still children. To most people, that’s probably different to moving for employment and deciding to live here.

I’d be interested to know how many of the naturalised players still live in Oz. I can name a few, and I suspect that most stayed because they enjoy a better life over here.

"naturalisation" is the process of acquiring Australian Citizenship through application. AFAIK it's never meant anything else in Australian citizenship terms.

There is permanent residency for foreign citizens, which is visa based. e.g., immigrants who choose not to become Australian citizens and hold a permanent visa.

""Naturalised" had a specific meaning. I think a player had to be resident in Australia for 3 years. Citizenship is different again."

No, no its not.

Naturalisation is the process of getting Citizenship. Once you are a citizen, and the i's are dotted and t's crossed, you can play as a local. End of story.

The path to Naturalisation can be different for each person, and it has changed over time, because its determined by the government, and has nothing to do with the league.
Yes, they will factor in such issues as residency, time in the country, domicile, family, etc. Lisch's path was easier because he's married to an Australian and has Australian children.

Yes, Deng & Majok are citizens, because they were naturalised. (Vukona is a naturalised NZ Citizen, which for our league is a local.) Once you're a citizen, you're treated as a local.

Where it gets interesting is at International level, because we're restricted to a single naturalised player. I don't know if that has any exemption for players naturalised as kids.

The idea that the league comes up with its own version, and say replaces one of the import slots with a "'Veteran' Import" is interesting and not without merit, but ultimately fraught with potholes. Its an extremely complicated issue, and far easier to leave it up to the government

Use TaHoop.

"I'd be interested to know how many of the naturalised players still live in Oz. I can name a few, and I suspect that most stayed because they enjoy a better life over here."

Ill name a few of the top of my head. I'm a bit out of the loop these days but I think these former NBL players are naturalised (perm residents or citizens) and are still in Australia.

Cal Bruton, Ricky Grace, Leroy Loggins, Kevin Brooks, Alphonse Hammond, Stormin Normin Taylor, Don Bickett, Tad Dufelmeir, Dave Simmons,Jerry Lee, Ted Holcombe, Dean Uthoff, Lanard Copeland, Al Green, Eric Cooks, Cecil Exum (despite the shame of being dunked on by A Gaze), Brad Pineau, Shawn Redhage, Melvin Thomas, Chuck Harmison,

it was the old FIBA rule of one "naturalised" player per national tean for international comps, and that player had to have had citizenship for 3 years to play as a "naturalised" player under FIBA rules in FIBA competitions, and the NBL just adopted that.

Just don't get off on slapping other posters down, its not their fault that FIBA used those terms , and that YOU don't know that. OXOXOX :)

"it was the old FIBA rule of one "naturalised" player per national tean for international comps, and that player had to have had citizenship for 3 years to play as a "naturalised" player under FIBA rules in FIBA competitions, and the NBL just adopted that."

I'm clearly not as ancient as you, because I don't remember when that was the case. Must be more than 25 years ago.

Plus, whichever way you want to look at it, "Naturalised" refers to somebody with Citizenship, not residency.

it was the old FIBA rule of one "naturalised" player per national tean for international comps, and that player had to have had citizenship for 3 years to play as a "naturalised" player under FIBA rules in FIBA competitions, and the NBL just adopted that.

"heard reference to a 'three year player' in the context of early 80s NBL, but it seemed to refer to guys that were still imports. Was this a separate rule?"

"it was the old FIBA rule of one "naturalised" player per national team for international comps, and that player had to have had citizenship for 3 years to play as a "naturalised" player under FIBA rules in FIBA competitions, and the NBL just adopted that."


The 3 year rule. Whatever it's officially called. That's the 1 I remember. I seem to recall the NBL used to allow teams 2 imports plus a 3rd import who had been resident for 3 years or more. It allowed longer-term imports to still keep their employment. Dwayne Nelson wouldn't have played on for the 36ers in 1986 without the rule. I recall that he lost his NBL gig for a year as he had to wait to qualify as a 3 year resident, didn’t he? (Others might know for certain).

I also "know" that Mark Davis, Dwayne Nelson, Wayne McDaniels, Willie Simmons and many others styed in Australia post-NBL career. Some may have moved back since though, but they certainly settled here longer term. I suspect Dave Simmons probably moved back to the US with his son.

"Where it gets interesting is at International level, because we're restricted to a single naturalised player. I don't know if that has any exemption for players naturalised as kids". I agree that this will get interesting. For our existing and emerging Sudanese players, would it be fair for them to miss out on representing the country where they've grown up, and a country which accepted them as having legitimate claims to refugee status as their country of birth was not a safe place for them? I can see a time when global sports federations will need to form rules for these cases. I'd say it's bigger than FIBA, and all sports feds should formulate consistent rules to govern this.