https://www.news.com.au/sport/american-sports/nba/ben-simmons-reportedly-pulls-out-of-tokyo-2021-olympics/news-story/18f6a1ae1633c6952e7d7a900600111e

Hahahah, I called it so hard. The guy is weak. Boomers better off without him. Games on the line he's on the bench anyway.

Just so disappointing - it hurts the medal perspects.

Hard to care for the guy anymore on the world stage, he doesn't represent Australia so he’s just another NBA player not on my NBA team now

> it hurts the medal perspects.

Although I acknowledge that it's Goorjian and not Andrej I believe that this increases our medal chances.

I can't help but feel that whoever the Boomers coach was would have been incredibly likely to play through Ben down the stretch. This would have resulted in lower percentage plays, poor shooting, missed free throws, etc.

Current Ben isn't helping anybody in clutch situations. His D would have helped keep us in games but his O isn't enough. This isn't the NBA where the coaches can keep subbing him in and out. Had he tried to do this at an Olympic level you're only clowning him and it's not something the coach can do.

So instead of it being the Ben show this will be the Boomers show. I can live with that.

Can live with 60% free throw shooting - not great, but could live with it

Simmons probably ruined Kendall Jenner lol

Unsurprising.

Very disappointing though. He would've brought things that helped the Boomers immensely at both ends of the floor.

Yep, he ain't going to Tokyo

Boomers insta were posting about Simmons and Thybulle, obviously a last ditch effort.

No surprise, but a massive fail from Ben.

He's had multiple years where it was clear he needed to improve his shooting, but simply hasn't done the work.
In an Olympics year he decides that now is the time to do it?? Really?

Maybe he needed to be humiliated to find that desire to actual work on his game, but the timing is terrible.

I called it months ago that he wouldn't be going to Tokyo. Lemanis fell on his sword because of this bloke and here we are. Albeit this decision might be out of his hands fingers crossed he'll be there. Its not often we get to see the full contingent of our best aussies playing together. Poor shooting or not he can still provide so much for this boomers team. But 34% free throw percentage is a major concern!

I think we all knew Simmons wasn't going to play for us in Tokyo. He's just too flaky. I didn't want him on the team and hopefully a line gets ruled through his name from now on a bit like Bolden. I doubt it will happen but I wish BA would say to him this was your last chance, enough with the tease or you're out for good.

What's the chances we are back here playing this game in three years time?

We can say put a line through him, until today becomes long in the past and we are lured by the proposition of Simmons playing in Paris.

I'd love to see Simmons succeed, being an Aussie and all, but let's be honest his career trajectory is looking bad

I remember watching him in his rookie season and thinking he could be the next Lebron. 4 years later, where is he at?

Tell me, how many NBA superstars have a trajectory like his- 4 years in and still averaging 14ppg, struggling through a playoff series.

This all suggests to me, sadly, that he lacks the killer instinct, the work ethic to become one of the greats. He'll probably remain a very good defender, and a multiple all star but very unlikely to ever be an MVP candidate or All-NBA 1st team. If you rewind 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, we all would've thought those things would be likely. A bit of a shame really. Let's hope I'm wrong.

I would rather just not entertain the idea. The Boomers aren't a priority for him. If this were any other player on the squad there wouldn't be a question about playing in the Olympics. I just think we need to accept that Ben will play for the Boomers if he doesn't have a jump shot to fix, a kardashian to chase, or if he wouldn;'t prefer laying by the pool for a few months.

I actually dont care about his career. JHe's gome out of his way to be an irritant, race-baiting jerk. he comes across as super arrogant and entitled. And he's screwed the Boomers around consistently. I dont care if he's MVP or playing basketball in an obscure second division league somewhere next year.

Oh look ME found the thread, not long until he starts ranting about Cambage too.

Many of these younger guys have a me-first attitude over supporting country, debatable if country even means anything to them.

You saw it during the world champs with "my image" being more important than helping the team win.

I think people are re-writing history a little bit. I remember Luc Longley pulled out of playing for Australia in the World Championships in 1998 because he didn't want get injured and risk his contract prospects in NBA free agency. Longley has suggested his foot injuries that ended his career may have played a part by agreeing to play for Australia in the Sydney Olympics 2000.

Ben Simmons decision is disappointing if its true. But he's likely getting pressure from the 76ers. Chris Anstey was asked by the Chicago Bulls to skip the Olympics in 2000 and spend the time on a offseason weights development program. Anstey declined as the Bulls still wouldn't guarantee him a contract even if he did.

He should be going to Tokyo. He needs to get some game rhythm going and it's his best opportunity to play some decent competition that he should be dominant in. He can work on his jumpshot and FT after/during. He needs somebody like Holger Geschwindner who can fix his head and his shot. It’s a mental thing in the end and if he can find his confidence at the Olympics it will do him wonders compared to shooting the ball in an empty gym

This is the continuing pattern with Simmons: always choosing the easier option mentally.

Playing in the Olympics under a new system, with new teammates, under the pressure of a major tournament. That could actually help him. Instead, he chooses to hide away with development, as usual, as the excuse.

The best development for him now would've been to absorb the wisdom of our NBA vets. They are a good bunch of guys, so I have no doubt they would've been willing in supporting Simmons.

I can't help but feel there is poetic justice in this for BA and Lemanis.

Bol lemanis couldn't get the job done in 5 years, it was time for a change

I'm not talking about the ranking system, I'm talking about final placings at the Olympics and World Cup. Spain and Australia are the only countries with top four finishes in both 2016 and 2019.

Philly knows they're going to have trouble getting a good deal for him after the last few games and how little he’s progressed in 5 years.

Do you think their job will be easier if he gets injured or made to look ordinary in the Olympics?

They - and Rich Paul - are just trying to protect their bank balance.

The Olympics is a two week tournament. All of the preparation is done in the US. I fail to believe that due to "fixing his game" that he cant make the commitment. I mean, broken game or not he was meant to be playing out til about the same time of the year anyway if he made the finals.

"I can't help but feel there is poetic justice in this for BA and Lemanis."

Exactly. If this was all about Simmons then it looks like a super dumb move right now. I am not saying Lemanis is better than Goorjian but I'd probably prefer to have stuck with what was (close to) working rather than trying to fit in a new coach in a short time frame.

"Spain is the only country in the world to have out performed Australia over that period."

Yep, it wasn't broken. Didn't need fixing. They took a gamble to get Simmons and in the end, look where we are. It was only going to take a broken fingernail to keep Ben out of the Olympics. We need to stop gearing our whole program around getting him because it's really unlikely to actually happen.

Yeah I don't get the criticism of Lemanis. He did a bloody good job and to be honest had Australia playing just about better basketball than anyone else over the 5 years, aside from an Olympic US team.

Australia basically had two heart breaking (extremely close) losses to Spain preventing Australia gold medal/championship games.

Those are the only major tournaments to have occurred in the last five years. What else are we supposed to look at? The Asian Cup that the Boomers ran roughshod over?

You don't take into account eurobasket?

Criticism of Lemanis is odd

Lost Bronze medal game by a point in Rio, had some tough reffing.

Lost semi final in double OT at World Cup. Patty hits the free throw, Australia most likely wins and most likely goes on to win Gold

A coach can only control what he can control, and he's had Australia humming along and playing great bball at 2 major tournaments.

It would've been better leaving him in charge while we still have Ingles/Mills/Baynes/Delly, and then switching for the next World Cup when presumably those guys will be playing lesser roles.

You are an absolute moron.

" You don't take into account eurobasket? All the lead up games?

A poster on reddit last year did the real rankings incorporating just 2014-20 (essentially lemanis time frame) and we are sitting 5th"

What value are they on a global perspective though? The ones that prove it are the ones where everyone is competing - WC and Olympics.

How can Australia prove it's better than euro clubs via a Eurobasket tournament?

And how can Euro teams prove they’re better than Australia via Eurobasket?

2016 and 2019 weighted together, you’d say US produced the best basketball in 2016 and probably Australia in 2019.

Obviously Spain was most consistent by knocking out Australia twice, so fair play to people arguing Spain is better and it’s only fair they are ranked higher.

Serbia and France - In 2 games v Serbia the teams went 1-1, in 2 games v France the teams went 1-1. Australia is the only one of the three that finished top 4 in both tournaments I think?

" we are not the third best performing team over 5 years."

You haven't made a sound argument why Australia aren’t.

If you focus on WC you can argue 4th on result, if you focus on WC and Olympics it’s third - and Fiba rankings reflects that.

If you’re going further you’re at risk of the whole thing being irrelevant as that’s a substantial period - I’m not even sure Spain will be that good this time around. 2019 was its last hurrah.

If Aussies had Simmons playing, we would have a fair expectation of a silver medal

Yes, there's no valid reason to suggest otherwise unless more players pull out.

Australia are one of the stacked teams in the world, even without Simmons.

USA we all expect to be gold.

Canada will improve but they were trash on WC, having a better side doesn't mean it will be better than Australia’s.

Serbia don’t have Jokic- there is no reason to expect Serbia is better than Australia. Close? Sure. Better on paper? No.
France is the same. Close? Sure. Better on paper? No.

We actually don't know who is putting their hand up for other teams. USA looks stronger but what's news about that? At this point all we know is our squad is still much stronger than 2019. We don't know about everyone else, other than Serbia who've also just lost their best player.

Ok, but have those guys committed? I dont even think they've qualified yet have they? Let's see them qualify before we talk about how good, or otherwise they'll be. The talent may be on paper but we need proof they can bring it together. But yes, talented squad, assuming they have access to them.

None of that has anything to do with the original point, which is that we've only been outperformed by Spain over the past five years and branding Lemanis a failure is moronic.

If Slovenia get in then I would give them a sneaky chance at a medal since they will have the best player in the tournament.

It will be interesting to see who plays for the US, could see them coming back to the pack a bit again.
Spain has the experience but a lot of older players so injury could be a concern in a condensed tournament.

1. Golden generation
2. No medal

= BA, not Lemanis (or Goorjian) are the failure

BA should have appointed a coach after Rio PROVEN to be able to win international medals with a team of NBA players not just another Australian or English speaker

Lemanis PROVED he couldn't win one a couple of times but we persisted and then we went with Brown and then Goorjian who have also PROVED not to be able to win one

BA have shut the window.

We came within two plays of Olympic bronze followed by World Cup gold.

That is not failure.

I don't blame Lemanis or BA for not medalling the last two times. We were right on the cusp. We rightfully should have medalled in 2016. We were some interesting calls and a missed freethrow from medalling in 2019. We've had some pretty rough luck. Plucking someone who has medalled with another country and making them coach may not have parlayed into a medal for us either. I think Lemanis developed the program very well and we went from being a middle-of-the-road team to a medal threat under his guide. As poor as he's been for the Bullets I think we need to realize that Lemanis did an excellent job with this team.

As for Ben, it is going to sound flip-floppy of me but this decision has not been verified. We dont even know where the news comes from as no one has been quoted. Some guy from ESPN said Ben Simmons is doubtful to play at the OLympics. Okay, is that just due to the situation and his assumptions? Did Ben say that? Is that Klutch Sports? Is that coming from Philly coaching staff? Is that just Ben's feeling 24 hours after a gut wrenching loss that changes after consultation with Brian Goorjian? We actually don't know.

Once again, I'd be extremely surprised if the tide turned and we see Ben line up in the green and gold this year but we actually don't know where this news is coming from.

I would have thought the Olympics would be a good chance for him to showcase he still has what it takes to play at an elite level.

Thats better than doing shooting drills for 2 weeks.

I wish him the best either way, it must be hard right now when it feels like he is everyone's punching bag.

Deserved or not I hope he can recover and be the force we all hoped he'd be.

Well he has basically an entire off-season to work on his shot. The Olympics end 2 weeks after the finals. I am sure a compromise can be made that allows for both. It really comes down to Ben and if he wants to do that.

I guess we will always wonder what might've been with a proven performer

We can always warmly re-assure ourselves that we were plucky, fought hard with aussie spirit and were just unlucky and robbed by those damn refs while Spain are warmed from the glow of the two more medals in their trophy cabinet

Lemanis is a proven performer. Spain are the only country to have done better.

The Boomers played some brilliant basketball under Andrej Lemanis. I don't know what to make of his efforts at club level, but for the national team he is, by far, the most successful coach that team has ever had. People who talk shit about him just seem to imagine the grass is greener on the other side, or that somehow the coach is the difference between the 1 percent plays that the players slipped up on. Lemanis system put them in the situation to win those games but things happened that he had no control over.

Funny, Argentina, Serbia, France and Russia all have Oly or WC medals from the last 6 years so how have only Spain 'done better' than us

And Lemanis is responsible for the brilliant basketball we played but not responsible when things didnt go right ! :):):)

I love this forum

And also they forget that it takes time to develop a system in international ball. Players familiar with the system, developing chemistry, is huge in international basketball. Take the 2019 WC as an example and the success of teams with established head coaches versus those with rookie coaches at international level in major tournaments. A good example of the value of an established system was Czech Republic finishing top 8. Even if you are no Lemanis fan, it's very optimistic to expect any new coach to generate better results. Hopefully Goorjian runs mostly with the Lemanis system that the players are familiar with.

I still remember when Simmons, Maker, Exum and Bolden were supposed to be our future stars for the Boomers.

Which is also why perhaps the Simmons omission may not be such a terrible thing. If Simmons expected to run the show, the Boomers would've had to make some drastic changes to facilitate such a different style of player. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Simmons to play, but he doesn't deserve the keys to the team. I always liked Simmons as a gun role player in the Boomers system, although I wonder if he would take on such a role after expressing so much displeasure playing 4 in college.

The whole we're ranked third in the world doesn't mean much without a medal. This is what we're playing for right not some silly meaningless ranking

"And Lemanis is responsible for the brilliant basketball we played but not responsible when things didnt go right ! :):):)
"


So the coach is responsible for missed free throws and clearly erroneous foul calls?

Funny, Argentina, Serbia, France and Russia all have Oly or WC medals from the last 6 years so how have only Spain 'done better' than us

Gliddon and Creek don't play the same position and weren't competing for the same role.

"Funny, Argentina, Serbia, France and Russia all have Oly or WC medals from the last 6 years so how have only Spain 'done better' than us"

I'd say a better argument is that Australia deserves to be in the same upper echelon as Argentina, Serbia, France, Spain. That's a great compliment to Lemanis for leading the team to that level. There is always an element of luck in those major tournaments to get a medal. It just takes one game, one unfavourable matchup, or even one poor call, to get eliminated.

Look I respect Lemanis as a coach, but at some point teams are going to figure out with the line ups he puts out there, apart from Mills no one is a threat to create their own shot and you can force them into over-possessing the ball creating turnovers.

Some of his match-ups are just plain weird as well. Baynes on Carmelo Anthony in 2016 and having Landale play the 4 against much more athletic opponents being 2 examples.

Alright, split opinions on Lemanis, fair enough. Either way we've got Brian Goorjian now and a team (most likely) without Ben Simmons. We have more depth than in 2019 but some concerns around injury and form. I am actually more comfortable with the team we're sending now without Simmons than I was when the 2019 team lost Bolden. It's not the end of the world for medal chances but it does seem like tbhe basketball gods REALLY have it in for the Boomers.

'There is always an element of luck in those major tournaments to get a medal. It just takes one game, one unfavourable matchup, or even one poor call, to get eliminated.'

and it always happens to poor old plucky little true blue Australia who would have bags of medals that are rightfully theirs if it wasnt for good old b a d l u c k

Give me strength people, I'm leaving you to revel in your self-fulfilling aspirations of mediocrity

All this focus on his shot is potentially counter-productive. It's going to make Simmons feel even more under scrutiny when taking a shot.

Sure, during his NBA career he has had mechanical regression in his shot, but it's the mental side that needs to be really addressed. If his mental side isn't addressed, we will just get to the same point as every off-season so far, looking good with his shot in practice, then shrinking confidence under game pressure. I wonder if the 76ers publicly expressing confidence in the work that will be done this off-season is just a way to increase his value, make him look good in no-pressure workouts, then trade him at a higher value to some sucker team who think his shot has improved.

what's the point of having a guy on a roster but the moment there’s a chance for to play him you play the guy who didn’t even make the team initially.

You can say different roles but face it, if fluff on was good enough he’d be the one to get those minutes which he wasn’t.

Haha yeah, this guy must think Creek is a point guard or something. Creek was a like-for-like replacement for Cooks...

Gliddon was there in case Goulding got injured. Goulding didn't get injured, so Gliddon didn't play.

Kobe it obviously helped that creek played the same role as cooks

The reports were that Gliddon smashed it in the workouts with his 3-ball. Goulding proved his value in actual games. Would it have been any better for Lemanis to give Gliddon token minutes over Goulding? Gliddon was a useless selection, but still somewhat understandable because we always needed a sharpshooter replacement without Broekhoff, and it seems sensible to give minutes to the more in-form sharpshooting swingman on the team. The alternative was to put all your bench sharpshooter eggs in one basket. The value of a perimeter shooter also explained Barlow's selection. With multiple core players regressing with their perimeter shot (Delly, Baynes), might we need to prioritise perimeter shooting again? eg. select both Broekhoff and Goulding and give minutes to the more in-form player?

"2019
Delly
Mills
Ingles
Landale
Baynes

Sobey-dnp much - exum 2021?
Goulding
Creek
Kay
Bogut - Humphries 2021?

Gliddon-dnp much - green/broekhoff 2021?
Barlow-dnp much - cooks/Motum 2021?"

I like this thinking as a benchmark for selections. The obvious outs are Gliddon, Barlow, Bogut.

Starters are locked in. I'd expect Humphries to be the only option to replace Bogut as a rim protector. Goulding, Creek, Kay have the form, big game mentality and experience to keep their spots on the team. That leaves 3 spots. I'm expecting Goorjian to select another ball handler, another swingman (a shooter?), and another big, essentially replacing Sobey, Gliddon and Barlow.

Ball handler: 2019 = Sobey; 2021: Exum, Giddey, Sobey
Swingman: 2019 = Gliddon; 2021: Broekhoff, Green, Thybulle
Big: 2019 = Barlow; 2021: Motum, Cooks, Reath

On second thoughts, Green, Thybulle and Broekhoff fighting it out for one spot? Maybe the balance of the team needs to change. I'm still comfortable rewarding a shooter like Goulding, though.

Bogdan Bogdanovic might not make it to Tokyo either, particularly if Hawks and Bucks go to 7 games or the Hawks progress to the Finals and he gets no down time to rehabilitate his knee

They'll just swap him out for Bojan Bogdanovic, no one will notice.

"The lesser nbl players are in the team, the more chance we are medalling."

On the other hand, the more familiar players are with the Boomers system, the better our medal chances are.

I take it you are referring to Goulding, Creek, Landale, Cooks and Sobey? I previously didn't have Landale as a lock, and perhaps that should still be the case, but who should we take as a starting 4? Landale or Motum or Kay? How about Goulding? Who is the better sharpshooter not including our NBA core? Either Broekhoff takes his spot or we sacrifice perimeter shooting. Creek is arguably expendable, but his competition is really at the 4 spot: Landale, Kay, Motum, Cooks, Reath(?). I'm now thinking two 4s instead of three 4s that Lemanis went with, which allows for another swingman. This might leave Creek out. It means selecting 2 from: Landale, Kay, Cooks, Motum, Reath. Which two? As for ball-handlers, Sobey is no chance anyway, despite his strong NBL season. It will be Exum vs Giddey there, both NBAers soon enough.

It would be nice to be able to give Green and Giddey spots for experience, but who do we need to omit in their place?

31 years ago that might have been true

Once Bodgans?

Just watched Bogut on Fox Sport talking re Ben S and Tokyo. May be repeated.

Bags Simmons for dicking around with his decision re Olympics but also defends his right to do what he wants.

Worth a watch.

Hard to see Baynes and Delly being as impactful as 2019. Feels like we've regressed a bit over the past 2 years, Bogut gone, and no one has stepped up really

The future of our centre position once Baynes is gone is concerning.

What? It's probably the only position that isn't concerning with Landale, Humphries, Sam Froling and possibly even Jordan Hunter coming through.

Landale will be there in Tokyo and Humphries probably at the next Olympics.

Lol Sam Froling.

Interesting article here:

https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/his-best-interests-boomers-veteran-reacts-to-ben-simmons-olympic-fears-c-3190098

I am not sure whether to take anything from it, but we are three days from the "doubtful" news and we're yet to have confirmation that Ben is out of the OLympics.

The camp starts tomorrow and the time frame for that confirmation would be closing in. But without doubt, wheels will be turning behind the scenes. Someone would have spoken to Ben by now, and as of now, no announcement. This makes me think, in the parlance of Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber "so you're saying there's a chance?"

Extremely slim but I am starting to think there might be.

Looking at it the other way, if he has told the team to get stuffed they probably wouldn't announce that before the camp had started either.

I don't know what Ben's real intentions were for Tokyo (prior to the playoffs), but if he had planned to play then I feel like the more time that passes after being eliminated, the more likely he would be to come back around to that decision. But I don't think this has been nearly enough time for that to happen, so I'd be shocked if he said yes now even if he was originally planning to.

But fingers crossed. If he says today that he's in, then that's still a full camp to get his head right, and I know he'll be a valuable member of the team once he is in that environment.
But if he's not there then we've got to forget about him and move on.

From Ben's POV, the incentive of "The Olympic Experience" barely exists this year anyway with this lame, compromised version of the games.

There is a second camp in a week's time that he could make himself available to. I would expect some sort of confirmation before this camp though and seeing as it isnt ther eyet, I feel like the decision has not been made or there is some compromises being made.