I'm a current JDO/DOC.

Whatever the pay rate, keep in mind that a good JDO/DOC works 70 hour weeks minimum, hardly takes any leave and gets no overtime.

Job security very low, and no chance of further progression. No matter how well you do all you are only a couple of committee members with a grudge away from dismissal.

Good luck.

Sounds like you love your job.

I do love my job, hence why I do it. But I'm giving a clear picture of exactly what the role is like.

It's a thankless job, and even if you do it well, a vocal minority will hate you. They are the hardest jobs in basketball.

But if you love the game, and have a passion for junior development, do it.

Depending on the type of club.
Clubs that have ownership/lease of their stadium and own domestic comp,
$70k minimum
Clubs that pay court hire are hamstrung
Clubs that don't get revenue from their domestic comp or don’t have a big enough domestic comp at every low.

Mix and match those aspects and you can get a salary range.

And as previous mentioned. Job security is tough. You are at mercy of the boards/presidents etc.
Majority it’s parents who are super involved while their kids are playing. Often will leave once kids finished. New regime and you are likely looking over your shoulder.

Big variation in role and Club structure within SA and outside of SA.

Apart from parents it's not too bad, but definitely not a career.

Been there done that agree with the above unless you absolutely need the income you better off getting a job at Maccars more work life balance. Plus the parents can be delusional and don't even get me started on the committee people who in most cases don’t have a clue about sports or business. Let’s also not forget 3-4th team player’s getting 1st team spots because of who he or she parents know at the club. Besides the headaches no free time and hardly any free time or appreciation/terrible pay it’s a great job!!!!

Diamond valley advertised and interviewed for $80k few years ago. So that would be benchmark for association ticking above boxes mentioned.
Existing culture would be as important as salary just about. If walking into a place that doesn't have their front of house in order you are being setup to fail.
Who would be jobs in each state which would be worth the hassle?

This site itself is a good example of how tough the role is. We see plenty of negative commentry around DOC's performance, but very little positive around which DOC's are doing well.

The people who do a good job are paid poorly for their efforts, get little to no recognition and usually get burnt out fast.

My experience in SA has varied quite a lot.

There's what I'd call the Mesecke model. One person to rule it all. All the power but also all the responsibility.
Final say on coach appointments, Squad Management, even Team Selection. Drives the junior program philosophy, player recruitment, player development, camps, clinics.
Basically oversees everything. But ultimately can be held responsible when things go wrong.

There's the split system.
One for Boys and one for Girls. OR one for younger age groups, one for older ones. West Adelaide are a current example.
Splits the workload, but can cause some divide, loss of accountability.

There's the Development Only role.
Employing someone to drive player improvement/development without the responsibility of management of personel, team selections etc. Hard to hold to account. The current model by most SA clubs right now. Relies on a Committee person or individual coaches to cover the parents, admin, squad management, player management duties. Cheaper option.

There's the by Committee system.
Volunteer based. Age Group Coordinators either Div1 coach or someone else who knows the game and the age group. Can work to a point but ultimately becomes messy as players move age groups and there's no program/system from 10s-youth league.

The most successful over the past 30-40 years in Adelaide has been the Mesecke system. While many clubs have found the Boys/Girls split successful too. Personally I don't like the issues the older/younger split can create.
The problem is there's at most a handful of people in Adelaide who can do this role and none can perfectly complete all that's involved. There's not a single Club in Adelaide willing to spend what would be fair and provide some safety to the person in the role.

Also worth remembering SA Clubs can range from as small as 30 teams total to 120 teams.

*junior teams

Great post #670.

Both the Mesecke model, or the Boys/Girls model only work if you hire good basketball people and support them to do their thing.

Too many times good basketball minds get interfered with by power hungry committee members who don't know the first thing about the sport.

When you pay so little for the work involved, it's common sense to support your staff so you retain talent, rather than frustrate them at every turn. Ego often comes into play which leads to the opposite happening.

On the lower level you've got a bunch of grovelling ass kissing parents trying to get their kid in div1 and get nasty and vindictive when that doesn’t happen.
Upper level you’ve got corrupt nepotistic faceless committee people who pick their friends kids, or kids that are "good for business" (surname, rich or both) in div1.
JDO is usually stuck in the middle of this slop bucket.

LC -0585

"given the number of house invested." You must be from Hawthorn LOL

What clubs around the country have a full time dedicated doc? Would t imagine it would be as many as we think

SA has 5 full time DOC alone. 6 depending on how Southern is structured, not sure quite what's going on down there. Might be 7, not sure if J Will at Sturt is full time or part time.

In any case that's more than half the competition.

769 which clubs do you think have a full time DOC?

North - Liam

Woodville - Freer

South - Dickel

Forestville - Sharon (presume full time may be incorrect)

Norwood - Will (might be wrong here, I presume his role incorporates DOC duties which is what I've heard)

Southern - Unknown
Sturt - Unknown if full or PT
West - Split PT
Eastern - ??
Centrals - Split PT

I don't believe any of those listed ar Full Time besides Norwood, and his role is not a DOC role. West and Centrals even combined don't equate to a FT role.

805 Woodville's is full time.

Isn't Norwood's a cronie?

He's also working elsewhere so he might be full time but not on enough money to commit completely.

835 who?

So who out of that list, is full time, solely doing the doc job?

And other states?

Vic? Qld? Wa? Nsw?

Woodville DOC definitely is.

Hope so, he's got a huge amount of work to do.

If given full responsibility for the Junior Program there would be more than enough off court work. Depends on the scope of the role, every club is different.

Many DOC's suppliment their role's income by coaching within a School's Program (as the Woodville DOC does). As the previous BSA HP Manager even did.

854 a lot of junior coaches coach in the school system as well. You can hardly call that supplementing your income. You know it's basically pocket money right?

Not at private schools its not.

Lol trust me, it is, and yes I would know.

Would anyone who coaches in the private school system care to give us a rough idea of what it pays? It's not a second job as such is it?

Depends on the school, #862 I'd suggest you're at the wrong one. Or just a coach and there's someone above you getting the real $$

Correct

Woodville's DOC is full time. The guy practically lives at St Clair and has done a great job since taking over.

North's DOC I find it very hard to believe he's not on a full time salary. There's whispers around town about what he is getting paid. No idea if true or not, could all be made up, but with his background and experience I'm sure he's paid well.

Norwood is a full time role. How much is a traditional DOC role I'm not sure, but it's full time.

Dickel and Simmons not 100% sure on, but Croxton was full time.

As for #853, yes there's more than enough work for a full time position, depends on the scope. There's a reason multiple posters above have warned about the intense hours.

875, I won't waste any more time trying to get through to you, but you have no idea what you are on about.

I'm assuming your day job is very low paid if you think the money in coaching at any private school is decent.

#921 - it's all relative isn't it.

To a kid working at Coles, $35 to $50 an hour to coach basketball is good money. To others it's petrol money.

I think for most of the DOC's who coach in schools it's more likely to be considered petrol money.

Its always all or nothing with people on this forum.

Simons seems full time, she's always there on court coaching, taking notes from the sidelines. A big change from Croxton who was full time and never set foot on a court.

Yea? How's that going lol

$50 an hour, if a 38 hour week is about $100,000 a year. Not bad cash. Would love to know what the high roller above is making and how to do it.

Of course most school coaches would only do a few hours a week for half a year.

At most private schools, basketball is a 2nd class citizen. Practice once a week then games Saturday. Nice little bit of pocket money for not much work.

Multiple teams, multiple Year levels, in school training squads. The more focused schools are certainly delivering more than 1 training and 1 game a week. They also have as many as 10 teams running at one time.

Clearly not enough work and money for a full time job, but someone doing this on top of a full time job is crunching their available hours and as we've seen many times before this means being in a school Saturday morning, before school and after school and not being hands on involved with a Club program.

Yes, the more focused schools. Normally someone with a clue does Open A's and another team or 2. Head of sport will normally find coaches, a lot of the times teachers, to fill in gaps.