Great squad. There's nobody on this list I'd be upset to see in the final 12.

As noted in the many articles, Ben Simmons can be added to the squad before the second camp, pending fitness and availability. A bit of a surprise not to see Baynes there. Form or not, you'd think his physical presence would put him in the conversation. But either way, this is a great squad, with a few absolute locks, and a lot of wriggle room for different considerations and play styles.

No Mitch Creek

Would have made the squad 24, 2nd camp 18, final camp 12. Just having all amongst the program in the first camp would have been beneficial.

Atm No
Simmons
Baynes
Motum
Creek
Vasljevic
Proctor

No mitch creek? no baynes... Interedting

I imagine baynes is a injury concern

Daaamn we got a squad

Creeks omission is both political and that he is surplus to need. His position is stacked. Who would he beat out? Ingles? No. Thybulle? No. Daniels? No. Green? No.

The only guy on this squad who is there solely for experience is Sam Frolling. The rest all have a shot at making it.

How great that feels.
Sooky,sooky Ben not in squad.what a shame.

I can't help it if it's an injury, but personally, it's a pity that Baynes is not on the list.
He is the best player to counter the traditional European big.

LOL as has already been stated countless times, Ben was never going to be added to the initial squad, only added by July if he can prove his fitness. Trust me, if Ben puts his hand up, he's on the team. We can all dislike things about him but they'll put him on the team. No "sooky la la" anything.

Good squad. Not many surprises. Would've liked to see Baynes included though.

If Creek has been black banned then so too will Simmons

Interesting transition from Japan ahead for the squad.

Can't see Delly being taken fit or not.

Knowing Simmons he'll probably pull out day before they leave for Philipines

If he makes the team that is

"If Creek has been black banned then so too will Simmons"

Because the coach that has done nothing but praise him is going to cut him from the team?

Great squad through the 1,2 and 3 spots. Best we've ever put out.

Look thin at 4 and 5. Landale and Kay are proven at this level but that’s it. Hopefully Cooks can perform well. Back up 5 is a question mark.

Simmons would be great as 4, small ball 5. Line up’s with Daniels, Thybulle and Simmons would be defensively stifling.

Not how the inner sanctum works @Me

Baynes would've provided that big inside banger that's sometimes required. Plus he knows the system, the culture, the coach. Would've been a good 12th.

Reath is a good player, but ultimately an inferior version of Landale.

But this should be a deep and talented team regardless.

Might look something like this....

Landale/Reath
Kay/Cooks
Thybulle/Ingles
Mills/Goulding/Green
Giddey/Delly/Exum

Missing out: WMW, Pinder, Froling, Daniels, White, Maker

Or maybe White could sneak in for Green?

CG43's shooting feels like it's required.

Deepest squad we've ever had. Good times.

Green out lol

Green will probably make it but whatever happens, some good players will miss out in the 1-3 spots.

CG43 has done an exceptional job at previous World Cup and Olympics, pinch hitting off the bench as a world class specialist shooter. Feels like he should be there, at least as an 11th or 12th man.

Exum was huge in Tokyo and brings extra size and run from guard.

Delly's spot could be challenged.

Will be interesting.

It's a very good team, like a lot have said, Baynes would be handy against the monster fives.
@ LV team looks right but Baynes for Reath.
White and Cooks in the four spot should be interesting in the trials, imo White adds better D and outside shooting.

I'd take White but I'm a biased Melbourne man!

Was trying to pick a predict a realistic team

Non negotiables should be Landale, Kay, Thybulle, Ingles, Mills, Giddey.

Some might through Exum into that group.

Leaves 5 or 6 spots up for grabs.

Throw* Exum

Looking at LV's list

Baynes for Reath is a no-brainer
White in for Delly with Ingles dropping to guard spot, (sorry, Delly, but you’re too far past your prime now)
WMW too similar to Giddey to be included, much as I like what he brings
Daniels not quite good enough to knock out the other guards YET
No Simmons - GOOD!!

won't find a bigger Delly fan than me, but he will struggle to make it I think.

Giddey/Exum
Mills/Green/Daniels
Ingles/Thybulle
Kay/Cooks/White
Landale/Reath

This is probably the best I have today, but completely open to whoever in that 18 man squad being in form and getting the nod.

Hey LV, please don't throw Exum, he has already been thrown!

Greg Hire still on BA's blacklist...

As someone who has followed the Boomers with much passion since the 1988 Olympics (and teared up a little when we finally cracked a medal), three things I never thought I would ever say about the national team....

1 - Holy cr*p we have some seriously good talent available from 1-12.

2 - Wow, the outside shooting is a little concerning.

3 - No, leave the #1 draft pick at home, the team just simply doesn't need him.

Giddey/Exum
Mills/Green
Thybulle/Ingles
Kay/Cooks
Landale/Reath/Maker

Daniels or Goulding

Personally, Maker is not my favourite. Because of the lack of consistency.
However, I thought that there should be a third big, so I chose it.

lol Dog55

Agreed Gus re shooting.

Thats why I'd take CG43 ahead of say Daniels. Plus CG is proven internationally, Daniels is not.

Giddey
Mills
Ingles
Cooks
Landale

Exum
Green
Thybulle
White
Reath or Maker (shooting/strength/rebounding) vs (shot blocking/length/motor)
-Flip of a coin

Goulding or Daniels (offense vs defense)
-ultra tough, goorj likes D but mills and ingles are the only reliable shooters.

Simmons or Kay (potential vs exp)
-Simmons better in every category bar overall shooting. If he's injured, Kay.

White is an improved Kay these days, he’s a better perimeter defender and way more athletic.

Josh Green walks onto the team and anyone who thinks different hasn't paid attention. Dante Exum also - he's been tremendous in the Euroleague.

The following players are locks:

Josh Giddey
Patty Mills
Joe Ingles
Nick Kay
Jock Landale
Dante Exum
Josh Green
Matisse Thybulle (if available)

If Ben Simmons puts his hand up, as much as he is a jock strap, yes, he will be a lock.

That really only leaves 3-4 positions vacant. The obvious question marks will be shooting and the big man department. You'd be hard pressed to leave Duop Reath off of the team. He is as close to a 'lock' as a non-lock can get. Thon Maker may be thrown in as a bit of 'big man insurance' and another look to throw in there. There's a pretty strong case for one of Jack White and Xavier Cooks - and shooting could well be the deciding factor between the two. Chris Goulding seems to always be earmarked as "the shooter" in the squad but while being "solid" in the World Cup and Olympics he's only ever torn lesser teams an asshole. I am a Chris Goulding fan but I am not sure if you give him a spot over Dyson Daniels. Unless he has an inspired camp, Delly's time with the Boomers has come to an end. Traditionally we would bring a third point guard to a tournament but with guys like Giddey, Exum at point, and ball handlers like Ingles, potentially Simmons, and other guys who can slot over, it seems the guy who played his whole career like "the little engine that could", no longer can.

My line up:


Josh Giddey
Patty Mills
Joe Ingles
Nick Kay
Jock Landale
Dante Exum
Josh Green
Matisse Thybulle
Ben Simmonss
Jack White
Thon Maker
Dyson Daniels

If no Ben Simmons, slot in Xavier Cooks. I think fears on three point shooting could be unfounded with this squad, given the closer line. Even Thybulle was solid from the three at the Olympics.

This is the team that starts handing the keys over to the next gen caretakers IMO

The Boomers stumbled when Gaze, Heal, Bradtke and Longley all retired around the same time and Smyth had to bolt a group together that didn't have international experience.

We are in the Baynes, Mills, Delly, Ingles last stages of suiting up if not gone already.

I Cant see room for Delly or Goulding with that in mind.

Our depth at the 5 is a concern. Do we have any quality big guys coming through? I cant say I follow the juniors that well.

I think you team is where it lands ME without Simmons. I look forward to the new version of Gliddon/ Sobey that confuses everyone.

Seems to be a lot of consensus on

Giddey/Exum
Mills/Green
Ingles/Thybulle
/
Landale/

The bigs are the biggest unknown, with likely four of the following to be taken.
- At least one of Thon and Reath
- At least two of Kay, Simmons, White, Cooks

The other big decision is final guard spot which I think will end up being the 12th man role. It might come down to veteran shooter (Goulding) or youth (Daniels) with veteran PG (Delly) and more dynamic guard (WMC) being less likely. Either way whoever gets this spot I reckon plays the least of anyone in the 12.

Good summary Cram

It's all about having balance and flexibility. You pick the guys who bring unique value.

The more I think about it, yes Delly is less likely, as Ingles moonlights as a solid playmaker.

If Simmons actually opts in...like actually does it, then his selection is a no-brainer imo. Higher ceiling than most.

Kay has already proven he fits with the group and the system seamlessly, he should definitely go. But Kay's not an athlete, so either White or Cooks should be included for their athletic defense (so if Simmons opts in, their selection/s should become massively less likely)

Reath pretty clearly is the front runner for Landale's backup (in the absence of Baynes being in the squad), ahead of Maker or Pinder.

I basically want Goorj to have the ability to look down his bench, and pick the guy he thinks he needs in that particular moment in that particular matchup. Which means covering as many different bases and skillsets as possible.

And of course injury cover.

Our biggest risk would be Giddey or Landale getting injured, if we take the team most are picking, with only 2 true PGs and 2 true 5 men (if you even call Reath a true 5...he's a skinny 6'10 who loves the 3)

(And Exum isn't really a true 1 either)

I expected to see Baynes in there, not necessarily in the final 12, but for practice against the kind of solid bigs that will be on other teams. A lot now rests on Landale, who has played more of a 4 for the Boomers in past tournaments. I don't see Reath nor Maker as big minute options.

I think this gives a hint towards the kind of team that Goorjian may be looking to assemble: fast, athletic, mobile, and importantly, switchable. We have the pieces to make this work: a lot of big backcourt players and athletic versatile frontcourt players.



I'm still very afraid of the many dominant bigs on other teams.

I am going to go in a bit of a weird direction and say I actually 'like' the Baynes omission. We can all argue for what he might bring to the squad but this is a strong indication this team wont be taking any passengers and that past performance will not grant you a free ride. Baynes wasn't up to it last season. And as much as I think we all can respect the Boomers career he has had, his light is fading.

The Boomers stumbled when Gaze, Heal, Bradtke and Longley all retired around the same time and Smyth had to bolt a group together that didn't have international experience.

The lack of balance on that 2001 team was the worst part really. Only Dmac and Maher as guards. Saville arguably forward/guard but not really a creator. There were times when Egan or Scotty Mac were the second guard on court.

We're not in the same situation as in 2000/2001 - not even close. The Boomers pool has been expanded to about 30 players that could, if called upon, fill a spot. Even a perceived weakness inside isn't the weakness we're making it out to be with Rocco Zikarsky coming through who should at least be "okay" inside, and about three Maker cousins, Jock, Duop and Mathiang if he finds his form again all around the mark. The only guy who stands out as irreplaceable by the next batch is Patty Mills. We need a scorer to come up. Outside of that, the next generation will be fine.

By the way that 2001 team was straight ass. The only guy on that team who'd even make the current Boomes camp is Matty Neilsen and maybe a much younger DMac - and that's just camp. After 2024 we are going to transition into some safe hands.

You have MWM and Goulding over Brett Maher? wow.

I Looked at who could have been a guard for that squad

John Rillie ( unlikely to be chosen due to politics)
James Harvey
Aaron Trahair
Anthony Stewart

Guards of that time who scored more than 15 a game above plus Maher. Very slim picking and cant say if all were available at the time.

Rarely does success continue on when a core group retires is my point. We are looking at loosing/ lost 3 NBA championship winners in the next 12 months plus Ingles.

The squad that LV put up is 7/12 having been Olympians or WC teams previously

The experience drops very quickly. FIBA Patty is a different beast to NBA Patty.

"Our biggest risk would be Giddey or Landale getting injured"

It's amazing to say that about a player yet to suit up in a major tournament for the Boomers, but that might be the case. If Delly gets a look in, it might be due to this: an experienced, steadying, insurance option at point guard, but mostly there for his valuable locker room presence. Basically his role in Sacramento? Then again, do we need that with players like Ingles and Mills?

By the way, shouldn't we count Daniels as another backup 1 option? Green has also been playing 1 in some NBA games, right?

I agree with Cram about locks, but I would be tempted to add Kay as a lock too.

Giddey/Exum
Mills/Green
Ingles/Thybulle
/
Landale/

Everyone in this 18, except Froling, has a good argument for deserving a spot on this team. Some tough calls to be made.

I have Kay as a lock. In fact I have him starting at the 4

Kay will be there but his playing in a weaker competition for last few seasons, some others also not playing much or in less standard competitions, tough competition keeps you at the top.
JLA could think himself a little unlucky to not make squad as well.

JLA playing for South Sudan.

Jla is on the south Sudanese squad, been on the team for over a year.

Yeah given the lack of size and genuine bigs it's slightly bizarre Froling makes it ahead of Baynes, JLA, even Humphries.

But as someone mentioned, it's potentially an early message from Goorj about what style team he wants- up tempo. Fast. Defensive switching.

Oh right, didn't realise JLA with Sth Sudan.

Excellent little chat with Gaze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na4WtFibMnc

I don't see Daniela missing - excellent defender who can guard the 1,2 and 3 spots. Can also absorb back up minutes at the 1 on offence.

Do we actually need a defender that can cover spots 1-3?

The focus really is...who can shoot the lights out to join Mills n Jingles surely

Defence 1-3 isnt a problem we have. Our issues are inside and I can see the debate around the shooting, despite thinking the worry is overblown.

Hate to say it but the video with Gazey does make a strong case for Goulding.

Goulding is unlikely to miss out he's the perfect 'break glass in case of emergency player'. I've got no doubt he'll be in the final 12 but still surprised Froling got a look in for this squad especially over Baynes but Goorj should be allowed one of his favourites.

6'0 Mills (1988) SG - PG
6’3 Dellevedova (1990) PG
6’4 Goulding (1988) SG
6’5 Mcdowell- White (1998) PG - SG
6’5 Green (2000) SG - SF
6’5 Thybulle (1997) SF - PF
6’6 Exum (1995) PG - SF - SG
6’7 Daniels (2003) SG - SF - PG
6’7 White (1997) PF - SF
6’8 Giddey (2002) PG - SF
6’8 Ingles (1987) SF - PG - SG
6’8 Cooks (1995) PF - SF
6’9 Pinder (1995) PF - C
6’9 Kay (1992) PF - C
6’10 Simmons (1996) PF - C - PG (4 weeks to get healthy)
6’11 Landale (1995) C - PF
6’11 Reath (1996) C - PF
7’0 Froling (2000) C - PF
7’0 Maker (1997) C - PF

Can someone remind me why Creek's omission is 'political’?

I think a few people will be surprised at how good Green is now. Could see him starting over Ingles because Joe struggles to guard any wings these days.

I feel we’re a bit short of big men. Not convinced Froling should be there. He just doesn’t seem to have much defensive presence.

If we want some insurance for Landale and Reath, we might have to settle for Thon! I think I’d prefer Humphries was in the squad.

Coke / Alledged DV

Reath bein rated over pinder for a backup big spot is a Joke

Bloke plays like a small.. Isnt a post presence at all

And defensively isnt athletic enough to pump fear in anyone's heart

Re: Creek, some people forget what happened before the alleged coke/DV stuff. Remember what happened at the camp for the 2019 WC? Creek got everyone off-side by barking orders/instructions at long time NBA guys like Bogut & Mills acting like he was king dick.

He supposedly pissed everyone off at that camp which culminated in the infamous end of camp voluntary team dinner where he was the only player not to attend and at the time the team dinner was happening he posted a pic of himself on Insta getting more tatts done at a tattoo parlour instead.

That was when he fell foul of BA and the senior players and why he wasn't picked in the initial 2019 WC team. He ultimately did come into the side as an injury replacement when Cooks got an injury in the first warm-up game ruling him out of the tournament. The alleged coke/DV stuff was after he started playing for SEM which was after that 2019 WC camp.

Froling is presumably in as an investment for the future rather than as a Goorjian favourite, Zodiac. Young, mobile, solid 7-footers who show steady improvement don't grow on trees.

But I agree that Baynes should at least be in the squad to give our players some experience against solid Euro bigs.

100% there is value in having guys who can guard multiple positions.

1) It gives you more flexibility with your squad
2) Every team is looking for guys who can switch on D

Ok I remember some of that now. Not a smart move getting key Boomers off side. Hopefully they don't still hold it against him 4 years on. I would still like to see him get opportunities as a Boomer, especially as a bridge between when Ingles retires and someone like Daniels is ready. Could be a year or two there where Creek would be a steady veteran hand.

*referring to Creek in my last post

Completely agree that the biggest risk and issue is the bigs.

That's why we want Simmons to be in the team, because it would alleviate and otherwise unsolvable dilemma for lack of a healthy Baynes or Humphries.

Shooting is an issue after that, but absolutely a secondary issue to the bigs.

" 100% there is value in having guys who can guard multiple positions.

1) It gives you more flexibility with your squad
2) Every team is looking for guys who can switch on D"

You already have Exum 1-3, Thybulle 2-4, Green 1-3. Giddey is technically a 1-3 size wise and playing at OKC is played alongside two other guards.

Lengthy wing players that can do 1-3 is not an issue Aussies have.

Bigs that can handle euro bigs? Big issue..
Sharp shooting that can alleviate Mills/Ingles and challenge the best, it’s still an issue.

Defending 1-3? They have plenty already

I dont see shooting as a big issue

Mills, Ingles, Kay, Landale, Exum, Green are all good shooters and the rest can all make some 3's too.

The so called specialists like Goulding have never really delivered in the big games anyway.

I personally think the 12 should come from this 14

Cooks
Daniels
Delly
Exum
Giddey
Green
Ingles
Kay
Landale
Maker
Mills
Reath
Thybulle
White

In the end you chose 1 of Delly, White, Cooks and thats your 12, lets say Cooks

If Simmons ends up proving himself and being picked he takes that 12th spot ahead of those guys

This gives you

Landale/Maker/Reath
Kay/Cooks or Simmons
Ingles/Thybulle
Mills/Green/Daniels
Giddey/Exum

Thats 8 returning guys from the bronze medal team and the most athletic team we have ever had with loads of world class talent.

First Round - Aus vs Germany vs Finland vs Japan
Second Round - Aus vs Slovenia, Venezuela
Quarter-Finals - Aus vs Spain or France or Canada
1/2 Finals - Aus vs Serbia
Final - Aus vs USA or Fracne

Here's my projected bracket if the Boomers don't lose.
You will meet more European teams than at the Olympics.
The reason Team USA struggles against European teams is because of the difference in the center position.
We must certainly be prepared for the traditional European big.

Is Froling 7 foot?

I think of him as a 6'10 PF.

Who guards Rudy Gobert for example? Or the new Marc Gasols of the world (he's retired now).

I would like having Baynes as an option in those situations.

Stalemate game, need quick points. CG43. Scored 21 in 14 minutes in France last week.

Haven't seen too much of Daniels but what does he bring that others don't?

I think, in the key games or when it's close, Landale, Mills, Giddey, Thybulle, Ingles will play big minutes. Regardless who we're playing against.

But the other minutes might change a bit and be dependent somewhat on situation. So let's give ourselves options.

Yes Sam Froling is 213cm 7'0, Harry is 6’11.

Sam Froling is 6'10 or 6'11. He is smaller than Thon Maker.

"Excellent little chat with Gaze"

The Goulding selection is highlighted well there. There is no other competition if it comes down to wanting a spot for a creative shooter/scorer down the bench.

Santamaria mentioned the possible selection of either Cooks or White. That'd be a very tough call if it came down to that. White isn't an NBL MVP type of player, but I actually like him over Cooks as a high IQ role player who excels playing off-the-ball and can play strong D. A winner. Not that Cooks is not a winner either!

I also read a comment about bringing Delly as an assistant coach. Nice thinking outside the box there.

Greg Hire still on BA's blacklist...

Not sure why that 2001 Oceania team was listed when it is equivalent to today's Boomers Asia qualifier squads since Smyth bizarrely didn't even choose the best NBL players.

10/11 of the Olympic team retired / were unavailable for that series. Maher was the only one available to select.

Would love Baynes to be considered. It's worth noting at the Tokyo Olympics, Kay and Landale were the Boomers main bigs. In 6 games, Kay played 27.8 mins per game. Landale, 21.8 mins. Reath, 4.3 mins (4 games). Due to his awful injury, Baynes played 29 mins in total (2 games). Despite their perceived lack of size and/or bulk, Kay and Landale held up well. Their shooting splits were particularly impressive.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/australia/2020.html

10/11 of the Olympic team retired / were unavailable for that series. Maher was the only one available to select.

"Not sure why that 2001 Oceania team was listed when it is equivalent to today's Boomers Asia qualifier squads since Smyth bizarrely didn't even choose the best NBL players."

It was the team we used to try and transition from 2000 and make the world cup, which we failed to do.

Smyth was a fraud though.

If Goorjian was installed a year earlier the team wouldn't have been composed like that.

There's still a massive dropoff between 2000 and 2004 without having to use an outlier freakshow in 2002 as the comparison.

Froling is listed at 7ft and commentary say he is, he's 6’11" at best, he has talent and is there to learn.
Boomers certainly look one real big man short though, it depends on opposition match ups, if you get lucky and avoid the monsters till semifinals it goes a long way to success. Eventually you are going to to be against US, France, Spain.
If Germany turn up with there nba bigs it’ll be the first test.

Smyth had won 3 titles in 5 years and had Goorjians measure head to head. Rough to call him a fraud

Best Aussie NBL players at the time by PPG and RPG

Maher
Rillie
Kerle
Nielsen
J Smith
Dwight
McKinnon
Trahair
Goodwin
Knight
Saville
Melmeth
Drmic
Wheeler

Considering its 20 plus years ago there were a number of injuries I think to some of those names. then some wouldn't have played for Phil. For some reason I think Schenscher even got a game as a kid due to lack of depth.

Aside from the six retirements from the Olympics the previous year but Anstey, Rogers, Mackinnon, Catallini and Jason Smith were all out injured or made themselves unavailable for selection. Maher was the only one of the 12 that was a hold over from the previous year.

A young Luke Schenscher then in high school played on Smyth's East Asian Games gold medal team in 2001.

Throughout this tangent about 2001, nobody has yet mentioned that they were against golden era Tall Blacks who finished 4th in the 2002 World Championship, as high a placing as Australia has ever achieved. Despite a poorly balanced team, missing a lot of Australia's best players, no experience playing together, a new coach and a new system, the Boomers still pushed NZ to 3 games. All games were played in New Zealand, so they had home court advantage throughout the series.

The lessons from 2001:
1. New coach, new system = rebuilding phase in international basketball.
2. Select a balanced team (at the least, more than 2 competent ball handlers)
3. Don't experiment with unfamiliar player roles (eg. Saville at guard) if you expect to win

I suppose this was brought up to compare against a team that lost its core all at once. I think we have a well staggered group in terms of experience.

CORE

Giddey 1st major
Mills VETERAN (2008, 2010, 2012, 2016, 2019, 2021)
Ingles VETERAN (2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2019, 2021)
Kay 3rd major (2019, 2021)
Landale 3rd major (2019, 2021)

Thybulle 2nd major (2021)
Green 2nd major (2021)
Exum 3rd major* (2014, 2021)


POSSIBILITIES WITH EXPERIENCE

Delly VETERAN (2012, 2014, 2016, 2019, 2021)
Goulding VETERAN (2014, 2016, 2019, 2021)
Reath 2nd major (2021)

POSSIBILITIES WITHOUT EXPERIENCE

McDowell-White 1st major
Pinder 1st major
Daniels 1st major
Simmons 1st major
Cooks 1st major
Maker 1st major
White 1st major
Pinder 1st major

I don't see a real issue with continuation but we need to start developing some decent big men.

"You already have Exum 1-3, Thybulle 2-4, Green 1-3. Giddey is technically a 1-3 size wise and playing at OKC is played alongside two other guards.

Lengthy wing players that can do 1-3 is not an issue Aussies have.

Bigs that can handle euro bigs? Big issue..
Sharp shooting that can alleviate Mills/Ingles and challenge the best, it's still an issue."

Didn’t say it was a weakness for the team, just presenting his strengths.

Think the shooting issue is overstated - Mills and Ingles are deadly and all of Giddey, Green and Exum are decent. Plus Landale and Kay can both consistently shoot the 3. Goulding gives you some shooting and not much else - I’d take Daniels every day. He and Thybulle together will give teams fits.

So you take Mills, Giddey, Ingles, Green, Exum, Thybulle and Daniels to cover the 1, 2 and 3 spots which leaves 5 spots at the 4/5. Sounds good to me.

That's a decent argument. I also note the point that Goulding hasn't contributed as much against the top teams.

But Goulding is the kind of player who can get hot and become a game changer. We don't have many players that can legitimately change a game in minutes.

We should also not discount the games against lesser competition. You can't afford to drop any games in these tournaments, so performanced against lesser opponents remain very important.

But if Goulding misses out, I can see that it would be nice to be able to add in Daniels for culture exposure and big tournament experience.

Smyth had won 3 titles in 5 years and had Goorjians measure head to head. Rough to call him a fraud

Let's not forget that we won the medal on the back of Patty playing a blinder and shooting the lights out.

We can’t expect that to happen again, and should go in with the expectation that everyone else will need to step up to get us through instead of relying on Patty. I think we need a Goulding type of player for just in case.

Patty Mills has been an absolute superstar for the Boomers.

He's our go-to man and his performance in the Bronze medal game was the capstone of an incredible international career.

I expect in 2023 and in Paris 2024, he'll still be the man we're running plays for. The guy with the license to shoot at will.

But a transition will slowly start in 2023 and 2024- this will become Giddey's team. He will have the keys to the offense, and as he matures the offense will need to change, to run a system utilizing his strengths, with less of the screening to get Patty open. Because by 2027 world cup, Patty will be 38/39 and likely be a bench pinch hitter- ala Goulding- if he's still in the team at all.

Giddey is similar stylistically to Ricky Rubio, who was one of the absolute stars of the 2019 WC and 2021 Tokyo. Goorj should be looking at Spain's sets for inspiration in how to effectively use Giddey.

We don't appear to have another scorer like Patty in the pipeline, but the team will use the strengths of the new crew- Giddey, Green, Daniels, plus established players Thybulle and Landale- which is defensive versatility, speed and run. With Giddey's creativity the key to the half court offense.

I hope the Boomers work on their offensive system. The 2021 team was far off the 2019 team in the way the offense functioned. 2019 had had an established system, excellent chemistry, a lot of easy baskets from high IQ players who knew the system inside and out. The 2021 Tokyo team's offense was very simple in comparison, so it ended up relying far more on talent to get the job done, with of course Mills carrying the team. I agree that it's unlikely we can rely on that happening again. The World Cup is longer and harder. We need more depth and a better system.

Defensively the 2021 team was better, but you'd expect this with the talent that was there and a more defensively minded coach. Can you imagine if this team full of strong defenders managed to also develop anywhere near the offensive chemistry with familiar offensive sets as in the late Lemanis era?

The problem is that a huge part of that offense was Bogut in the high post. Who has the size and passing ability to take that role now? Closest current player is Kay. But perhaps the ideal replacement is, wait for it, Simmons. Simmons theoretical perfect role is not to initiate an offense etc, but to replace Bogut as a distributor in the high post. Of course, to make it work, firstly Simmons has to be committed to playing and committed to playing in that role (history says unlikely for both), and the team needs time to practice it. Might this be the one reason that might justify Simmons being an automatic late inclusion to the team?

In theory, I think it works. In practice, probably extremely unlikely. It's such a pivotal role from a player yet to spend more than a couple days with the core Boomers.

How much preparation time does the team have in camp? And how many practice games will there be?

I wouldn't be surprised if Goorjian mostly has his main rotation in mind, with a core comprised of 2021 players plus Giddey, who at least has some sort of familiarity playing under Goorjian for the Boomers.

Luckily for us mills is one of those scola type legends who will go on till 40+.

23WC 35y.o, 24O 36y.o, 27WC 39y.o, 28O 40y.o
Probably the end.

Good points RJD. The offense worked well in 2019 and 2016 too (where Bogut averaged 3.6 assists a game), until that final game vs Serbia anyway

It's horses for courses, need an offensive system to match our personnel. Bogut's absence (and now Baynes) is a massive loss but the addition of Thybulle and Exum in Tokyo added a new dimension in other areas.

"I hope the Boomers work on their offensive system. The 2021 team was far off the 2019 team in the way the offense functioned. 2019 had had an established system, excellent chemistry, a lot of easy baskets from high IQ players who knew the system inside and out. The 2021 Tokyo team's offense was very simple in comparison, so it ended up relying far more on talent to get the job done, with of course Mills carrying the team. I agree that it's unlikely we can rely on that happening again. The World Cup is longer and harder. We need more depth and a better system."

I totally agree with this. The 2016 and 2019 teams were poetry in motion. The 2021 team seemed to defend incredibly well and yet "eek" out points. People DO NOT give Andrej Lemanis enough credit for what he did with those teams. And if not for some bum luck and running our starters into the ground both 2016 and 2019 teams would have medalled.

"he problem is that a huge part of that offense was Bogut in the high post. Who has the size and passing ability to take that role now? Closest current player is Kay. But perhaps the ideal replacement is, wait for it, Simmons. Simmons theoretical perfect role is not to initiate an offense etc, but to replace Bogut as a distributor in the high post. Of course, to make it work, firstly Simmons has to be committed to playing and committed to playing in that role (history says unlikely for both), and the team needs time to practice it. Might this be the one reason that might justify Simmons being an automatic late inclusion to the team?"

The Simmons thing is so prickly. He could definitely be the Bogut replacement or he could be a massive locker room cancer, and history suggests the latter is more likely. Luckily for this upcoming squad, it is not short of exceptional passers - and could be the best passing team on the cup on talent. But it does lack creation inside.

"How much preparation time does the team have in camp? And how many practice games will there be?

I wouldn't be surprised if Goorjian mostly has his main rotation in mind, with a core comprised of 2021 players plus Giddey, who at least has some sort of familiarity playing under Goorjian for the Boomers."

I think they have two camps with the team picked around August 1, with 25 days to the world cup - it's not a lot of time. You're probably not going to see big departures from what they did in Tokyo. Goorjian may even keep some good players out as to not spoil the recipe.

I agree though, Simmons best role is that of high post distributor and Bogut replacement.

I raised this in prior posts, I don't think Delly will be dropped, on the basis of what happened in 2002.

2023 FIBAWC will be the beginning of shaping this as Giddey's team from the PG, but I highly doubt they will make it sink or swim for him.

Due to Giddey not making the 12 in Tokyo, I would be very confident in saying Delly will be his backup, hoping Giddey gets through without a shock to his confidence. But I suggest Delly will be there in as an experienced head should things no go to plan.

Then if Giddey gets through will a pass mark, yup, Delly will be given his gold watch and "thanks for your service", and Giddey is full throttle in Paris.

I wouldn't be surprised too if big minutes for Green and/or Daniels, sees a migration for Mills to move to the bench. It marries his current NBA role, it will extend his career, and won't subject his defence to being exploited as much.

Bogut is a twat but an exceptional player and team man, way to early to even mention Simmons in the same sentence. Bogut also put time in for his country without question.

One of Bogut's podcast discussed Simmons and playing in the game against USA in Melbourne. He was at training camp and then just stopped attending.

From memory, this may not be accurate, there was also some suggestion that it was about money and how Team Simmons was expecting payment from the Victorian government. When they found out he wasn't to be paid and it was BA who got the money he downed tools. You can only imagine how that went down in the eyes of the culture guys.

The keepers of the culture dont forget.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/victorian-government-made-funding-threat-over-simmons-claims-bogut-20210705-p58714.html

Rich Paul managed LBJ, Davis and Simmons. LBJ pulled out early, and Simmons pulled out soon after Davis did.

Paul was just protecting his cash flows, I reckon.

Dunkman, I stand to be corrected because I'm not going back to double check myself, but I'm fairly sure Bogut made few if any appearances for the Boomers in his prime. Now almost all of the missed events were cited as injury issues, but I don't think it's fair to say he bent over backwards to rep the Boomers. He was awesome when he did suit up, played without ego and bought into the system. But I think it's that attitude that would set him apart from Simmons, not their commitment to the program in their 20s.

Bogut played in five major tournaments and only missed one Olympics (2012). Not many have played more majors than that for Australia.

Agreed Cake you would hardly call Bogut a Boomer mainstay given the numerous major tournaments he missed the 2010 WC, 2012 Olympics, 2014 WC now David Andersen that guy really was dedicated to the green and gold.

Dave played six major tournaments, Bogut five. No real difference there considering Bogut's injury worries.

Where Andersen was incredible was all the Oceania champs he turned out for, a rare thing for OS based players to do regularly.

Bogut (born 1984)- 2004, 2008, 2016 Olympics

2006 and 2019 World Cups

Simmons is 26 and has competed in precisely zero major tournaments (Bogut had played 3 by the same age)

My recollection is Bogut had a genuine injury once or twice. And other times gave relatively flaky excuses for one or two tournaments

But it was nothing like Simmons' examples of committing and then bailing last minute with fluffy explanations, or being randomly seen in the UK with some new girlfriend after telling everyone he was taking the off-season to work on his jump shot

In summary, no comparison in terms of commitment

I'm not sure where this Bogut narrative is coming from. Hate his politics or personality or outspoken nature all you like, but I don't know how people can question his commitment to the Boomers. Bogut had omissions due to genuine injury problems.

2010 WC: major broken wrist/elbow injury
2012 Olympics: fractured ankle
2014 WC: knee injury after an injury riddled 2013-14 season

Otherwise he participated in 5 major tournaments, starting from when he was 18 years old in 2004. Look at some other high status representatives in AUS/NZ pulling out: there was no Longley pull out due to seeking a better NBA contract, nor Simmons draft concerns or needing shooting practice or whatever his excuse was, nor Adams complete abandonment of the program due to a historical grudge with the managing body.

How can Bogut not deserve to be recognized as a Boomers legend?

* actually, he was 19 years old in Athens.

@ Cake.

I think my point was proven by others re Bogut, only injury kept him out, as I said, imo he's a bit of a twat but his Australian commitment was first class.

Like I said, I was prepared to be corrected. I do think that stretch between 2008 and 2016 is what I'm remembering, and did encompass a lot of his prime. I pretty clearly wasn't drawing equivalencies between him and Simmons, either. He can be a Boomers legend despite having missed events.

Yes rjd he was very committed and no comparison to Simmons as I said

When I mentioned once or twice having a relatively flaky excuse, I thought there was a time he could've played but didn't. Either 2012 or 2014 perhaps

Still he showed great commitment to the Boomers overall and absolutely a Boomers legend.

I just read that Gobert is likely out for France which is a massive out. They'd have a lot of talent still inside but it definitely changes things for them and make them a less scary proposition.

Unless Embiid says yes

Embiid apparently low chance of playing as well, so that almost guts their inside presence but of course they do seem to have 20 quality young 7 footers. It certainly makes a match up with France far less threatening.

It's sad how in our sport the World Cup isn't deemed important enough to suit up for by star players but on the other hand if it helps the Boomers in this upcoming tournament then I'll take it.

Well with the Olympics next year and players managing their bodies more than ever I think you'll find a lot of NBA guys pulling out in the coming months. It wont lessen the achievement in my eyes if we go on to medal though

Altering the World Cup cycle is yet another brilliant decision by FIBA (not).

2023 FIBA World Cup odds:

1.50 USA

8.00 Australia

12 Serbia

13 Slovenia

15 France

15 Canada

15 Spain

21 Greece

34 Germany

34 Lithuania

51 Italy

67 Brazil

151 Finland

151 Latvia

251 Montenegro

251 Venezuela

251 China

251 Ivory Coast

251 Japan

251 New Zealand

251 Puerto Rico

251 South Sudan

251 Georgia

251 Dominican Republic

501 Iran

501 Lebanon

501 Egypt

501 Philippines

501 Angola

501 Jordan

501 CapeVerde

501 Mexico

It's always been ridiculous that FIBA intended for the World Cup and Olympics to be played in consecutive years. For a sport whose most prestigious tournament should have a sole focus on basketball, FIBA then went ahead and indicated it was a secondary tournament in two ways: 1) changed the timing to be right before the Olympics, and 2) decided to use World Cup as a qualification for the Olympics.

FIBA is calling Australia's Group E the Group of Death. According to the odds above, the teams are ranked 2 (Australia), 9-10 (Germany), 13-14 (Finland), 15-25 (Japan). Probably not such the cruisy draw that many initially thought.

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/news/finland-geared-up-for-world-cup-after-being-drawn-in-group-of-death

One main reason they made the WC the qualifying tournament for the Olympics was to give incentive for the top players to play. Top European players used to skip the WC to play in the next Eurobasket as that got them an Olympic berth.

Another reason was it allowed them to then have the home and away qualifying windows for the World Cup over an extended period of time that brought meaningful international basketball to countries all over the world, and they've been really happy with the crowds and media reach that have resulted.

This world cup change coincided with reducing Eurobasket from every 2 years to every 4.

So the new system has reduced the major tournaments, giving guys like Doncic a rest every 4 years.

Whereas Australia now has 2 years on, 2 years off major tourneys. Instead of a major Tourny every 2 years.

So they basically made it worse for Australia while reducing tourneys for Euro teams.

I dislike both changes but I suppose it might entice Euro players to play more consistently

And yeah, pretty clearly Australia got the worst group

Look at Germany and Finland's results from Eurobasket 22. They finished 3rd and 7th.

Japan has the home crowd and potentially Rui Hachimura.

Its actually ridiculous there's such vast discrepancies across groups

New Zealand as well. Pots were uneven

Thinking more, they should've gone

Year 1 euro
Year 2 ...
Year 3 world cup
Year 4 Olympics

Most Euro teams don't play Olympics

I thought FIBA moved the WC to the year before the Olympics because it used to be in the same year as the FIFA WC and that used to dominate the headlines and take most of the media coverage?

Correct.

No, it was part of an overhaul of their system that they put years of work into, wanting to get more home and away international games, get more stars playing the WC, make the WC more meaningful and meet the request from the NBA and players to get a year where there were no tournaments.

I am not sure if anyone is subscribed to code sports but seems like Ben's made progress in recovery and things looking like he'll be on the team

https://www.codesports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-playoffs-ben-simmons-clears-another-big-hurdle-in-nets-rehab-process/news-story/6f29c0bb22d6a21fdcb38ab6bf14be6d

Why would you need to be subscribed as it merely links to a free NY Post article.

I read the article. The projection is that he should be 100 percent good by September 1. The warm up series is in mid-August and the tournament, August 25. He has 2-3 weeks now to prove his intent and fitness according to the word we've been hearing. He's posting photos showing himself on court. I guess we shall see. And even if he does pull through and show up, what kind of Ben Simmons would we be getting? he's a bit of a Dr Jeckyll/Mr Hyde situation.

I just don't see his role being significant if he comes in so late. Would he be willing to join the team if he were at the back of the rotation? We don't want another Bolden situation.

I read the article.

If he's anything close to form he comes in as a defensive big man you can throw at the best opposition player. Potentially takes up a C/PF spot. His ability to reboumd and start the break shouldn't be underestimated. But it all depends on if he is committed to doing that.

Honestly, I hope he pulls his head in, makes the team, and gives it his all. It would go all the way to redeeming him in the eyes of most I would think, and mentally I think it would also go a long way in getting his NBA mojo back. I wouldn't put money on it happening, but hope it does all the same.

I'll believe it when I see it, but if he's fit he's a no brainer inclusion.

Could see him playing the 4 alongside Nick Kay, could push out a Cooks or White.

I'm struggling with this. What has old mate Simmo shown in the last 24-36 months to validate that he is even worthy of selection? I'm talking performance on the court. Sh*t, Baynes has one stinkin medicore NBL season and boom, he's gone. That's without even going into the entitlment Ben possesses in spades being a disruption to what is an outstanding culture. We don't need him, simple.

@ Gus3232, totally agree.

Kay hasn't been excellent in Japan, good but not excellent, is he a certainty, lot good athletes pressing for the 4-5 spot, certainly if Simons comes in. Kay played his way in, could others maybe do the same.

I think Kay would be the one to go too, despite shooting a good 3 pt %.

Kay's performances for the Boomers have him in the box set, but if a couple of players outperform him in camp it will give Goorj something to think about. Not a lot of players bring the skillset Nick does though.

Safe but sure option = Kay, who will give his all in so many areas, has bought into the culture, and will even grit it out if injured

High risk and (maybe) higher reward option = Simmons, who is limited in obvious areas, may struggle to adapt to the culture and expectations, and we know about his history of physical and mental ailments


No-brainer for me, and it ain't Simmons

If Simmons is in would almost certainly mean no Cooks

Kay is undoubtedly in the box seat for a starters gig after his performances at 2019 World Cup and 2021 Olympics

proven chemistry alongside Landale, proven he can play under Goorj (and Lemanis) at international level

Simmons should definitely be in the squad if fit and committed, just a matter of where and playing 4 backing up Kay is the logical fit in my view

It's possible Cooks or White work their way into a definite position but I think that would take a quality camp followed up by quality performances in pre-WC games. It may depend on when the pre-WC games are (and there just the 3 at RLA in August or others scheduled?) and when the squad needs to be finalised

Just on the boomers offence under Goorj.

Goorj is in the record saying the focus was on defence due to lack of preparation time needed to implement a sophisticated offence...

You get lemons and make lemonade…

Goorjian teams are better when he doesn't overcomplicate the offence.