Rondae Hollis-Jefferson -> Jordan

Omari Spellman -> Lebanon

It's interesting how easy some countries allow citizenships then Australia complete opposite.

Trey Kell - Syria

Jamar Wilson - Finland

"complete opposite" lolz.

I'll bring this up again.

Milking the South Sudanese refugee migration. We take the good ones, and dump the ones that can't contribute so that they can play for South Sudan.

Then the good ol' tale of Aussie Matisse.

Son of Aussie Greg Thybulle by way of Haiti and Harlem. Aussie Greg, employed by Hewlett Packard, worked on/off in Australia, company sponsored from 1999 to circa 2006. Had the foresight to get his 2 kids an Australian passport "if they ever need it for anything".

Aussie Matisse has had no trips back to Australia, and no linked to the culture, other than being coached by Brett Brown who said, "hey mate, you're obviously not going to get picked by Team USA, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie?"

Aussie Matisse: "Oi Oi Yeah Boi".

For reference:

Nique was born in France, Air Force dad, and bounced around Europe from birth to 15.

Same with Shaq who lived in Germany with his Army dad, from about 12-15.

Kobe lived in Italy from age 6-13 and actually played basketball and went to primary school there. We all know he fondly remembers his time growing up there, has video footage, and speaks the language!

But Aussie Matisse always has, "I'll eat vegemite if I have to" as his rebuttal lol.

Seriously - I'm puzzled how no one thinks this "selection" is a joke.

1. He plays a pivotal role and really shifted the team's success to earn rose gold.

2. Australia is already a decent team without him - which makes it even more taking the piss by having him on any squad.

^^^^^
Exactly, hypocrisy is a fair description.

Dominique Wilkins - lived in France/Europe 15 years, birth to 15
Shaquille O'Neal - lived in Germany actually 6 years from 10-16.
Kobe Bryant - lived in Italy 7 years, age 6-13.

Matty Thybulle - "lived" (it was on/off as they routinely went back to the States for Greg's work) in Sydney for "about 7 years", age 2-9. Vaguely name drops the primary school he attended from Kindy to Year 3 (on and off). Has no other stories to validate that he really even remembers living here.

Maximum cringe when people write, "he grew up in Sydney" lol. Toured here in 2016 with the Pac 12 All Stars - made no mention of being Australian then. Listed his hometown as Issaquah, Washington. Lol no love for the 2060, Waverton, NSW?

I'm not sure why this gets anyone's panties in a twist. There is a limit on naturalised players for a reason, outside of that ... whatever a nation is willing to accept to grant citizenship for sporting reasons, that's up to that country.

Have you been to Watertown? Place is a straight up ghetto compared to Issaquah, WA. I'd be sticking to the same story.

The majority of these naturalised players have at least been to the countries that have naturalised them, whether it was being born there, played ball there professionally, or had a holiday there once when they were 3 year olds. The high is more than could be said for when the Phillipines naturalised Andray Blatche, someone with no familial ties and without ever having set foot on Philippine soil, having his application run through in a mere weeks so he could play for Gilas.

But again though, who cares. If the Philippines are willing to grant citizenship to a guy who has never set foot in the Philippines more power to them as long as its within the FIBA rules. IMO it makes them look a little silly and takes some of the shine off anything they might accomplish, but hey, so be it.

For guys like Thybulle you can argue about how Australian they really are etc., but its all subjective from that point.

Yeah I dont care, as long as its within the rules fair play to them. FIBA does have some oversight and makes judgement calls from time to time, but generally if a player is eligible for citizenship, they can occupy that one naturalised spot. Different countries are always gona have different rules about who can be a citizen but I think in general the rules used are fair with the one naturalised spot.

I think FIBA has been open that they are more willing to allow those less straight forward ones through if the country is more of a developing basketball nation, so Australia isnt gonna get those. for example, Thybulle might have been considered to be unrestricted if it was Indonesia, but for us he restricted to that one spot.

How convenient he dons the green and gold so the consensus is "meh I don't care" then a classic deflection to our neighbour and best mates the Philippines and Andray Blatche lol.

The world knows they're garbage and that they could prime Dwight Howard with Space Jam infused Wilt Chamberlain powers and they probably will finish last.

Whichever way you spin it, in most cases, a naturalised player is quite piss-takey and is transparently an effort to fill a void that your nation can't naturally produce. Eg a US point Guard for Euro teams, a big for a nation of midgets. It almost always isn't the tipping point between medalling or not.

Except for Australia - and what's annoying is, they in all probability could still medal with our without him.

Why ignore the very specific breakdown of his "Australian-ness" that I've depicted? If it were any other country, say one close in close proximity to us like New Zealand or near our anticipated result like Argentina, Canada.

If any of those teams had a similar citizenship stitch up, there'd be complaints galore from Australian fans...

Do you know how long Boges went on and on and on in painstaking detail why he didn't believe Mike Tobey to be "rightfully Slovenian" both during broadcasts, socials and his podcasts lol

Seriously, no self respecting basketball fan, regardless of location or nationality can take a Thybulle green and gold jersey seriously lol.

Could you imagine if Kobe lived in say Spain instead of Italy all those years, and rocked with Pau in '08 to smack the Redeem Team?

I ignore it because it doesn't matter. He has an Australian passport, it's as simple as that. Some people will moan and whinge and be hypocrites and that's fine, applies to every other topic outside of this one. The "how" and "who" of being a citizen and able to represent a nation in sports is up to each nation.

"Toured here in 2016 with the Pac 12 All Stars - made no mention of being Australian then."

Not really:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/uws-matisse-thybulle-gets-chance-to-develop-game-with-pac-12-all-stars-in-australia/

The guy spent a big chunk of his formative years in Australia, learned to read and write here, did multiple years of school etc.

You can argue a point of view whether you feel that should qualify him for Aussie citizenship or not (it did under the laws at the time) but to compare him to Andray Blatche being a Filipino is a stretch almost as big as Andray's wasteline.

woahhh...he remembers a house by the beach and Santa wearing Speedos! Sounds like a true and fair dinkum Strayan indeed lol.

Do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that if he was picked for Team USA that he would have still gone, "nah mate, I'm Aussie, I wanna play with me mates" lol

How much tax do you reckon he has paid to the Australian Taxation Office in his lifetime?

How many meaningful familial connections do you think he has here since leaving at the ripe old age of 9?

How much contribution, involvement or even bare knowledge do you think he has of the Australian basketball landscape outside of being given a cherry picked jersey? Could he tell you what state the Warnambool Seahawks play out of? Does he know what rep team Delta Goodrem once briefly played for? Shoot, does he KNOW Delta Goodrem?

Do you think he has ever genuinely followed the NBL? Do you think he could name Australians that played in the NBA before him?

Get over it. Thybulle qualified for Australian citizenship before playing for Australia was even a consideration for him. He was a kid who became Australian because he lived here, not to try to get around FIBA rules.

Antiquated thinking about measuring how australian someone is by some arbitrary rule you decide ti impose says more about you than anyone else.

WillyBalls, can you explain what any of those things you've listed have to do with him qualifying for Australian citizenship?

Nice work by the Australia to recognise the talent of Mattisse Thybulle at age 7 and rush through his citizenship.

It only got rushed through because he had potential in swimming!

@WillyBalls25 You really have something against Matisse lol. Someones a bit salty.

He definetly helped us in the Olympics and he will definetly help us in the world cup. He has taken the boomers spirit and mentality in his stride and is a valuable member of the squad. We should all be happy that this great bloke is donning the green and gold.

I would think it's a good thing not knowing who Delta Goodrem is.

Much fan boi.

It's almost shitting on Leroy Loggins, Scott Fisher, Ricky Grace and the countless 80s and 90s imports who genuinely migrated to Australia to build a life.

Loggins and Grace have both lived here since migrating post college age circa 22.

Fisher lived here the same time period, only moving back to the States the last few years well in his late 50s.

How can you genuinely even compare that sort of devotion and commitment to Australian Basketball, and hence "Boomer culture" to a guy that's been living in the USA since essentially their entire schooling system (they start elementary in Grade 3), played high school and college basketball there; has no family or social ties in Australia; and only really contemplated his suitability when Brett Brown brought it up.

This was also the delay in determining if he was going to be allowed to play as a regular player on the roster or a naturalised player - because him being Australian just by virtue of having two passports was sketchy AF and Goorj and most of the coaches and powers involved knew it; FIBA knew it.

But fan bois are all in because he's a good player and "seems like a good bloke". What the hell does that even mean in the context of a sporting team lol.

He should go on Spotify and drop a Peter Allen remix

I've been to Haiti, Scotsdale and Philly
my mum was Caucasian from Merica
my dad's a highly educated systems engineer
I wanted to rock with Team USA
but all of their wing spots were already filled

So my coach at the time, said, mate you got a passport?
I checked Dad's garage, lo behold, there it is
I don't remember shit as I was barely old enough to wipe my own ass
but I realise something that i've always known

I still call Australia hooooooommme

OK so in conclusion, someone who got citizenship when they were a child growing up in Australia shouldn't be able to play for Australia because you don't like it?

How far down this line of thinking do we go?

Patty Mills has spent his entire adult life living in the US. Do we have to give him the flick too? I mean he's clearly committed to living there. Has an American partner.

Its almost as if there's nuance when it comes to someone's nationality and it isnt about some arbitrary rules you decide.

And again, just to be clear, MT's ability to play for Australia is only as a restricted player. Australia wasn't done any favours - he has an Australian passport and there's no country in the world that would be denied a player playing for them if they have that passport. Given he had this as a kid, its absolutely arguable that he should be considered unrestricted, but he's not and we live with that.

How far the line of thinking you would think would be "what's reasonable".

Mills, born, raised, played his entire junior basketball, and developed under the AUSTRALIAN Institute of Sport but went to pursue opportunities in the nation where the sport is played at the highest level, and to boot, a First Nations person and you want to compare that to someone whose dad took him on a working holiday in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney for culture lol - what a bikram yoga stretch.

If you remove the rose gold shades, you know what's right/somewhat ethical.

Jerome Randle, Lithuania - NO.

Andray Blatche or any other nonsense that the Philippines concocts, not right.

At a stretch, the Philippines' best rightful claim would be African-American players with Filipino mothers like Clarkson, Harper Jr etc - particularly if that player appears to have maintained some sort of connection with the country - in most cases, family holidays or having several familial connections like grandparents and cousins as well as an authentic claim to having "roots" to that country.

US born citizens to Nigerian parents, who in most cases left to escape dire living conditions. You'd be pretty stupid to complain about those guys playing for Nigeria I reckon. Similar case for South Sudan - but where that gets super murky is how come they can

A) if good enough, play for the Boomers
B) if not good enough, play for South Sudan

Imports who have genuinely uprooted their lives to move to a country, play in that domestic league for decades - that seems legit also.

It's pretty straight forward I think - some sort of "heritage" seems legit.

Bogut speaks of almost getting so pissed with BA as a teen that he contemplated playing for Croatia despite living here all his life. That shouldn't bother anyone, his parents are Croatian and you can clearly see his deep connections to the culture.

So basically family heritage - OK. Expressing genuine intent to be part of that country (ie imports moving here and settling here) - OK.

Being a young child, and having your dad casually traverse here on/off for 7 years while working (in a non basketball, or even army/Air force/noble capacity)...sketchy AF.

But hey he plays the passing lanes and is a good glue guy so meh it seems...

It's really simple in this instance. If you became a citizen of a country as a child then that citizenship has nothing to do with basketball, so the Thybulle discussion doesn't belong alongside Blatche, Randle etc.

Article from 15 Jul 2016

"only one athlete (Thybulle) has visited Australia before"

https://pac-12.com/article/2016/07/15/pac-12-all-stars-end-trip-australia-new-friendships-insights

So if Joe had obtained Kobe a dual Italy/USA passport or if Sargeant Phillip Harrison had obtained Shaq a dual German/USA passport - and both players chose to play for those teams and got them over a three decade medal hump to capture rose gold, you'd be cool with it?

Because I always pop up with my anti Thybulle sentiments the same time every year - when someone starts a thread bagging Insert Country that's Not Australia grants citizenship to Insert Player That's not Matty Thybulle.

This year it's Kyle Andersoo from China, last year it was Lorenzo Brown/Marron of Spain.

If you're going to bag dubious naturalisations - keep it consistent and look at your own backyard in Waverton, NSW 2060 LOL.

Nothing dubious about a young child being granted citizenship by a government in line with the laws of the country.

I think it's the intent - and the suppressed reality check.

All the countries Australian fans pay out on be it Croatia/Dontaye Draper back in the day, Spain, Lithuania/Randle, now China, - they're making no bones about it, we need a spot filled, need a certain position, we're taking this guy - we're allowed one naturalised spot. Then most Aussie fans bag it out and say

-never set foot there
-clearly isn't from there
-what links does he have to their culture

then try to pass of Thybulle's inclusion as more wholesome and genuine, when the very doubts they expressed, applies all the same if not more...

consistency is your best friend

Thybulle received Australian citizenship as a young child. It was completely detached from basketball. Whether you feel it's wholesome and genuine is irrelevant.

Jesus.....so much anger about something that is actually black and white in regards to rules.

"All the countries Australian fans pay out on be it Croatia/Dontaye Draper back in the day, Spain, Lithuania/Randle, now China, - they're making no bones about it, we need a spot filled, need a certain position, we're taking this guy - we're allowed one naturalised spot. Then most Aussie fans bag it out and say "

Again, individual idiots/hypocrites will pay out on it, sure. I think most reasonable folks don't give a damn. Depends which champ you are in.

Hang on- Delta Goodrem played rep basketball? For whom?

That's my big question here.

BTW I don’t think one naturalised player per national team is a problem. I actually agree with more relaxed interpretations for emerging basketball nations, as it grows the game. Was there a time when it was 2 naturalised players per national team? I seem to recall Loggins and maybe Fisher playing together.

UseTaHoop - Hills Hornets in Sydney. I think I read somewhere that judging by the number of teams/members it is one of the biggest clubs in Australia. Also is in the NBL1 East competition.

We really didn't need to know that.

Oh sorry Perthworld I didn't realise we were on a basketball forum. Sorry for plaguing you with a completely irrelevant fact answering someone elses question.

Relax, it was a dig at the weird reference made by the citizenship dude.

Usetahoop

Growing the game is a good point and why no one should really care about teams there to make up numbers adding a handy player to reduce their losing margins from 40 to 30.

Last year, the thread bagging Spain/Lorenzo Brown (Marron) was saying, "I get bad teams doing it, but good teams adding a good player is dodgy". An Aussie fan saying this lol.

Boomers and Naturalised Players

1992 the Boomers took Loggins.

-Moved to Australia and played in the NBL from 24 yrs old to retirement at 44 yrs old.

-Seen by most as the NBL's 1A GOAT to Andrew Gaze's 1 GOAT.

1996 the debate was do we take Grace or Fisher, they took Fish.

-began his Australian journey at age 24 in the NBL until retirement at 39. ---stayed here and coached until age 45
-Bagged Clint Eastwood's ex wife lol and moved back to the States in his 50s.

2000 they took Grace.

-Played in the NBL from age 23-38
-Still lives here and does noble community work.

2004 no naturalised player. One player (CJ) born overseas (USA), but obviously moved here at 3 yrs old with Cal and stayed here. One of our most heralded players.

2008 they took Redhage

-commenced playing in Australia/NZ (in a sub NBL league no less) from age 23 to 35.
-Still lives here, coaches juniors and even worked a non basketball related job.

2012 no naturalised player. Baynesy is born in NZ but we don't hold that against him.

2016, took Lisch

-Played in the NBL from 23-34 yrs old
-Coached in the NBL from 34-37 yrs old
-Only left the country a few months ago

2020, Aussie Matty T

-mum/MOM was Caucasian American
-father is from Haiti, migrated to Harlem
-father is a systems engineer for Hewlett Packard, went on seasonal work trips to Australia to sight see/tree change when Matt T was 2-9 yrs old
-adamant he will "eat vegemite if he has to prove citizenship"

One of these naturalised selections is clearly taking the piss, and unfortunately coincides with the long awaited bronze medal finish. Bitter sweet when you have guys who probably could have provided pretty much everything Matty T did, like say Xavier Cooks who has an American father, an American mother, and has a distinct background that links Australian culture to its nostalgic roots of American imports with his dad being a former player and coach liked by many.

When I say, take the, you say "piss!"

Take The....

Cooks - *Australian mother*

It's really simple in this instance. If you became a citizen of a country as a young child then that citizenship has nothing to do with basketball.

You say that because it's Thybulle and Australia though.

Most of the Filipinas with African-American spouses don't bother to display Greg Thybulle foresight and give their children (Clarkson, Harper Jr, Jalen Green, etc etc) the "gift" of dual citizenship, but imagine the outcry if they did lol.

Take a macro view of the situation, and ask yourself

-if Pop wanted Matty T for Team USA, would he have declined?
-if Haiti played basketball, had a spot, and were competitive (thus giving you exposure, and chances to grow your brand), would he still have chosen Australia?

So many numbnuts giving him so much altruistic credit like he's chosen the spot as a way of fulfilling his Boomer duties and deep seated desire to be Australian lol.

It. Is. A. Dodgy. Ass. Selection.

Insert guy from Mean Girls, "she doesn't even go here" GIF.

No, I say that because if you became a citizen of a country as a young child then that citizenship has nothing to do with basketball.

Say Greg Thybulle did his Hewlett Packard Work From Home 1999-2006 thing NOT in Australia but in Canada, New Zealand, Italy or Germany.

Matty plays for their national team. That national team beats the Boomers in the Bronze medal game by 2; Patty drives, draws the double and gives it up to Goulding for a Paxson-esque game winnning 3; Matty T closes out, covering far more distance than a regular human should be able to and gets his middle finger ever so slightly on the ball, doing enough to disrupt its rotation and trajectory - it gets close but ultimately rims out.

Canada/New Zealand/Italy Germany/Bronze, Australia 4th.

You do a deep dive and learn of HOW Matty T is a citizen of Canada/New Zealand/Italy Germany/Bronze. GUARANTEE you'll get complaints lol.

No I won't complain, because if you became a citizen of a country as a young child then that citizenship has nothing to do with basketball.

This is crazy,

Thybulle didnt get citizenship as a minor as a view to scam FIBA and make the boomers, it would have been done for non basketball reasons, so is fully legit. Sure its different to other naturalised aussies, but still legit.

Guys like Blatche are way dodgier, and even then I personally dont have a problem with it, its basically FIBA giving teams an import to help increase the talent on the team and therefore the talent and quality of the overall tournaments.

In either circumstance its allowed and helps the quality of basketball so I, FIBA and most countries, players and coaches dont seem to really have a problem with it.

On a boomers note, i love what Thybulle brings to the table, was a huge reason why we got the medal, so I say welcome and we love having you on the Boomers and please keep showing up and playing for us.