I said he wouldn't last the week

Kell ain't going to help much either, probably lucky he was out.

Good move by the Sixers to get this done sooner rather than later.

I couldn't get over how disinterested this guy looked throughout the pre-season. Was a traffic cone on defence and for 90% of his short tenure he wasn't in any of the games at all (excluding the game in Mount Gambier where SE Melbourne were missing most of their roster).

Craig Simpson is looking pretty silly now too, given he coached him in China and would've been a key reason he made it to Adelaide.

A month to late.

If we are going for a PG as per olgun, I think we need a proven scorer to help with not only spacing but to take over the offence when it gets stuck like we have seen the past couple games. Wonder what Josh adams or Craig Randall is doing.

I think in the short time of the season. we have looked our best with cadee as the main scoring pg. I think a high level scorer with kell who plays both sides could really open up the floor for others to begin scoring. All sounds good in theory but the gameplan needs to be right first.

Should have gotten cadeau as a ns before unc.

What sample size did we have though?

I promise you that roster change will make no significant difference if coaching issues remain.

I'm talking about these blitz games, when I say best it's doesn't mean it's good, but with cadee stretching the floor we have been better.

And yes 1 import won't change the world correct.

Prediction- CJ will be gone before end of season

Virtually a guarantee, LV. At some point, on a losing streak, CJ is going to be bundled into a rocket and fired at the sun, it's just a question of when especially given he's in the last year of his contract anyway.

Franklin clearly deserved to be cut but I think the problems run much deeper than just swapping out one import. They're too numerous to list.

A fourth straight 25+ point loss tomorrow night though and I would suggest CJ should also start searching for a replacement for himself.

Two good steps in the right direction! Flowers looked much more effective as a wing in yesterday's game, so I'm glad everyone has come to their senses there. And Franklin looked like a one trick pony, so I'm glad we've been quick to cut him.

Glad to hear we're looking for a point guard. Cadee was good yesterday, but you can also see how he will be abused on the defensive end by opposing starters. His ideal role is as a sixth man at this stage of his career. Lets hope we find an actual star for once with the replacement!

Next question: is our coaching staff actually capable of instilling a game plan that our players can execute? Evidence so far suggests no, given we have looked like a street ball pickup squad so far in preseason! Odds are rising on CJ getting a swift hook early in the season I think.

Would it be fair to say that CJ is a good assistant coach but just not a good head coach?

Anyone got the inside scoop on why Wiley didn't play and if Kell will be okay to return in the first month of the season?

Wiley tight calf or something of the sort

Almost complete opposite to last season preseason when so much positive hype. Maybe it's get all the bad vibes and teething issues out now and once cupboard laid bare can approach season wart free.. components are there healthy Humphrey's critical.need mitch to find his groove though. Can surely only be upwards..last year was only down slide after preseason.

Can someone please answer me this question...
Sarr at potential top 3 pick next year, is coming off the bench…Apparently Rillie wants him to learn, understand and deserve the starting position.

CJ…has promised Flowers the starting PG position, a guy who has never played against men, not even in the top 50 draft predictions… Why??

CJ going on record saying that every team that has won a championship in the last 20 years has had a gun PG.

I'm guessing that Management are not interested at all regarding winning this year? Only interested in making money if Flowers miraculously becomes a lottery pick by seasons end.

I’m trying to work it all out…CJ is putting his entire career on the line with something that goes against his belief…

Something seems very fishy within the organisation.

And how stupid do they believe their entire fan base are??

Like some have said, this roster would lose to some NBL1 teams on the east coast.

Paging Sixersfan...

Terrible signs. Regretting buying the season tickets now. Many will hop off if this year is no good.

Funny you say that Ski 61, I was going to pull the trigger on two season tickets but as soon as I saw the first couple signings I decided maybe better to save the money...

Did CJ pick the roster or was it the front office?

People who know a bit more than I about the whole setup, what's gone wrong at the 36ers?

Jackjumpers and Cairns were competitive teams without the most expensive talented lineups last year (noted Jackjumpers are growing more depth).

It started in 2018 with the Mitch Creek situation and the ramifications of that have continued to snowball leading to the present day.

CJ is out of his depth.

hoopie, not sure. I don't think CJ was ever talked about as belonging to a group of promising assistants next in line for higher honors, so hard to verify if he was a decent assistant or not. I am sure his experience would be helpful in some way, and is no doubt a legend of the league. Right now I just don't see how he's the right coach for Adelaide and unfortunately doesn't look up to it at this moment in time.

"Flowers also being moved to a wing/ foward position as the point guard experiment failed miserably."

Did Olgun say this?

Ah yep I see now:

"The 36ers are also in the process of moving Trentyn Flowers -- their 18-year-old Next Star -- as more of a wing moving forward, multiple sources said, after attempting to use him as the team's primary point guard to begin preseason."

Does this mean Flowers gets pissed off at being bailed on so quickly? Or will they start him as a wing and gradually increase his PG duties?

I will bat for CJ on one point.

During his time as an assistant with Brisbane, I was told by a handful of different people I trust that they projected CJ to take the head coaching reins one day somewhere in the league.

And the Bullets ultimately hired James Duncan instead as Lemanis' replacement and then JVG bailed out his mate CJ by giving him this 3 year HC deal at the Sixers.

I think Adelaide has struggled with the improvement in coaching, player talent and the style we are seeing that is successful across the league for years now.

NBL is starting to be very intelligent in their schemes: more euro defensive schemes and NBA style use of analytics to move the ball to the most efficient spots (not talking NBA Iso/heavy ball usage in a single set of hands).

36ers just haven't put forward rosters capable of playing euro type intelligent systemic defence and that creates consequences that is a ripple effect on their offence.

Big Humphries/Smith-Milner
Big Wiley/Galloway
Wing Flowers/Marshall
Wing Kell/McCarron/Dech
PG Import/Cadee

Adelaide 36ers - "A Fish Rots from the Head"

I'd be getting rid of kell for an import sg too.

Where does Starling fit in.

AnotherBreakersFan, I'm sure there are differing takes on it, but I think firing Connor Henry two weeks after he got back into the country after isolating for weeks just to get here, was a really callous thing to do. Especially if it was because he wasn't happy about JVG telling him who he could start and how many minutes he had to give them!

From what was said at the time, the Sixers chased more highly regarded coaches like Adam Caporn, but were turned down. My guess is that most candidates looked at how Conner was treated and decided coaching the Sixers was a risky career move!

So we signed CJ because there weren't any better options and he's been given a long runway because 1) it would look bad to fire a third coach in 3 years and 2) the owner probably didn't want to be paying out yet another coaches contract!

I was one that was willing to give him a chance and also wanted to see some stability after all the chaos. He had excuses his first two seasons. He had no pre-season with the team his first year and the second year he was stuck with two large, under-performing contracts in McCarron and DJ that really torpedoed the team's chances.

But this season, he has largely been able to choose his own team and he has had plenty of time to prepare them for the season, but we still see the same clueless rec league team! There's plenty of veteran NBL players on the team, so its not like they're too inexperienced to learn defensive and offensive sets and execute them, but it just seems like they don't know what they're trying to achieve out there.

I think ownership has done a lot of things better in the last couple of years since firing JVG, but I think the final step to clean house is to find that elite coach, bring him in and give him the authority to build his own roster and develop the right culture.

Hermann 2 Starling doesn't. He, like Massingale got his shot 5 years too late. Isn't going to be the guy sixers fans hoped he would be.

Agreed!!

There needs to be learnings from Tasmania.

Reality is Adelaide isn't a top destination for 20s/early 30s top talent. We know if we compete for top signatures there’s going to be an element of overpay. It’s just how it is.

Adelaide also doesn’t have the purchasing power of Perth or Melbourne or Sydney or maybe NZ. I know they probably spent the most last year and they do spend a lot. But we know those other clubs if they really want to win a signature they can.

So, what do you do? Get your coach right. Get your culture right. Get the opportunities right. Get the winning feeling that’s contagious and draws people in.

36ers haven’t done any of that, try as they might. Tasmania have. Learn from them!

I know Scout wasn’t happy with me when I put forward those arguments about Tassie prior to their first year because people get protective over their home towns etc. and that’s fair. But what Tasmania did do is find a way to make it work. They didn’t win signatures of Xavier Cooks and the like but they got things done by focussing on the right things and executing.

My San Antonio Spurs have been the same. Sure they lucked out with Timmy, but the reality is they were never the big market attraction, they weren’t the go-to for stars like the Lakers. They had to get all the other shit right like getting their culture right, getting their coaching right, getting their roles right and identifying guys like Tony and Manu that everyone else didn’t bat an eyelid during draft nights.

Maybe CJ is playing chess and the front office playing checkers, he never wanted Flowers as PG, but let that disaster happen because it was the only way he'd get the "gun import PG" he has spoken of.

Henry was out the door as soon as he stopped the owner from being in the locker room

I've been told it’s not uncommon for the players to be recited the +~ from the owner as a base of how well they have played

Look where the owner sits at home games. Nobody can operate well with their boss looking over their shoulder.

"NBL is starting to be very intelligent in their schemes: more euro defensive schemes"

Interestingly, when Jamar Wilson came to the NBL he said the defensive schemes here were more advanced than what he faced in Europe.

He said European defences were more straight up, whereas NBL teams schemed very well to disrupt offences and key players, resulting in him having to do a lot more homework on how to play against various teams.

Did CJ pick the roster or was it the front office?

Henry was out the door as soon as he stopped the owner from being in the locker room

I've been told it's not uncommon for the players to be recited the +~ from the owner as a base of how well they have played

Ket your post made me laugh - your criticisms / expectations of Tasmania where more far reaching than stating young players wouldn't want to play there! Recall a bottom two expectation along with a very strong critique of the team recruited in year 1 - how did that play out??

Pleased to see you come around a little to acknowledge the shrewd recruiting that Roth and the JJ's have set up. It is based on players who have a chip on their shoulder with something to prove but will also play team ball. Yep something Adelaide could learn from.

Have a soft spot for Adelaide long been a strong club and I have no doubt they will bounce back it is only the pre season there is time but there will need to be buy in by the whole club - starts with D and ball movement.

Players playing as individuals and their contracts will not work long term, can play hard and get noticed.

Only a very small amount of clubs can recruit players to run and gun ie Melbourne and Sydney but both those teams also play D.

Haha you're allowed to enjoy it - yes absolutely just about everyone outside of Tasmania had them around the bottom first year which is not an unusual thing to expect of a first year side with a budget to contend with. Phoenix set the bar high as it was, but they had Creek an MVP candidate to rely on.

So nothing personal - just a fairly stock standard expectation.

A future NBL expansion side would get the same treatment, I can assure you! Someone has to be last, as an Adelaide fan I’ve criticised the 36ers and placed them around the bottom in the past and that also put some noses out of joint, but alas they ended up lowly.

There will always be an element of surprise, Cairns on more than one occasion have pulled off similar to what the JJs did - they were also slated to be around the bottom and surprised. I’m not sure there was a single person person that predicted both top 4? I’d be curious as to where you would have placed Cairns that year Scout?

I do feel there is a moneyball aspect to it though, my criticism which struck a nerve was would someone like Cooks sign at a place like Tasmania (or Adelaide without massively overpaying)? The thing about the Oakland As is they never actually won the title.

Who won the title the last two years? Cooks....

But I absolutely love seeing what Tasmania have been doing and they’ve set the structure for future expansion sides to adopt. They’re a hell of a lot more loveable than Adelaide are these days.

Cheers KET thought I would get a response like this ie moving the goalposts.

Will reply when I have time, about to hop on a plane to Melbourne.

Couple of quick take aways - your critique at the time was more extensive than just where you thought they would finish. You have now adapted to say they now need a Cooks to win it all.

You need to stop cherry picking. JJs in the GF series in their first year and top 4 second.

Yep totally acknowledge that a marquee player like Cooks would be handy (Sydney have the $s to attract not sure he would fit in at the JJs though). JJs did try and get MacDowell White without luck but I am happy with their recruiting this year (not sure about the 6'ers!). Now have multiple options with bigs that they have never had before.

Will they win the chip this year, dunno but they will give it a crack and be there abouts. As I have posted several times I expect Melbourne and Sydney to be the top 2 comfortably. Perth NZ also very strong.

Have rated Cairns for the last couple of years - they have a great coach with buy in from the players. Can't remember but reckon I tipped them a lot higher than I did the JJs!

Pro sport hu - looking forward to the season and more discussions like this. The 36'ers will be ok in time ...

Moving goal posts/cherry picking - you're being ridiculous and evidently took some things personally.

"You have now adapted to say they now need a Cooks to win it all."

No that's ridiculous, way to intentionally miss the point.

I’m making the point that it’s all well and good to come up with a team that punches way above its weight, but more often than not the star studded team wins.

Like Sydney did.

Ie. The moneyball reference that I made.

The Athletics got themselves far beyond expectations but to quote Suits “one thing we forgot - they never won the title”

I should also make the point I'm definitely not here for a fight - you can feel free to tell me where you believe I’ve shifted goal posts, but I think it will be the case that I continue to hold the same core logic.

Just please try not to read things completely weirdly like you did with Cooks one above. It doesn’t help anyone to do that. Clearly I didn’t mean "if you don’t have this one specific player you cannot win a championship", that was just silly. It’s worth watching moneyball or reading the book, it’s fascinating stuff.

Think about a team like Cairns. People just about always predict them around the bottom. If they aren’t it’s because they’ve had to go wayyyy above and beyond to not be overlooked.

Inevitably they prove doubters wrong on occasion. They still finish low a lot, but sometimes they smash it out of the park. Unfortunately those gems they find or develop get stolen.

Ultimately because more often than not people are right about budget sides and locations, despite not being 100% right all the time like nobody ever will be, the core logic will remain the same when making predictions.

Reality is, it would be stupid for people to look at Cairns making a semi and then year after year predict them highly, that’s no more accurate than people predicting Cairns finish around the bottom year after year.

When you’re a small market new team with a budget going into year 1 without an absolute star to bank on, the core logic critiques remain the same regardless of JJs having obviously beaten the prediction. A future Canberra side or whatever would get the same scepticism.

Feel free to disagree as much as you like, but I haven’t changed my view on the arguments I’ve made - I’ve been consistent on them and applied them to Adelaide too.

But after the first year or first two years, we know they’ve beaten predictions masterfully with their approach, much like Cairns have done from time to time. That’s good, I like that, nothing is ever 100%. It just doesn’t mean my core logic ever changed just like it doesn’t for how people treat Cairns.

That needs to be understood and accepted - I accept that for Adelaide and I accept that for San Antonio. The Spurs are masters of punching above their weight and getting the small things right, so I do live that side of things too, I know what beating expectations year after year for 20 years is, don’t worry about that.

cheers Ket - yep reckon you move the goalposts! All good though - had forgotten how passionate you get, it is what its about.

I'm still at airport with a flight delay expect to be tempted by the bar.

s

Moving goal posts would be saying "my view was under x conditions but now they're y conditions, so I’m not wrong"

The conditions didn’t change, I’ve never said they did. There’s no change in posts.

I’m saying “my logic is because of x conditions, and sometimes the prediction will be wrong, and the prediction *was so very clearly wrong* but will continue to make the same prediction for x conditions because we know across time it’s more right than wrong.”

It’s the literal opposite of moving goal posts.

And that’s why Cairns was a good example.

I fully acknowledge Tasmania beat the predictions, but at the same time I haven’t walked back any of my arguments and I apply the same type of ones to Adelaide still today.

I haven’t said “I was actually right”, I know that teams surprise because it happens, Cairns have done it. It doesn’t mean we don’t persistently predict them to be around the bottom. We still do it and I’m willing to bet you would too. Someone has to be last!

What it comes down to is you just didn’t like my arguments and that’s completely fine.

You took the little Tassie jabs personally, I know that. That’s fine too. I give Adelaide jabs and I’m from Adelaide and support all Adelaide teams. But some Adelaide people hate it. I give Victoria jabs and I live here. LV might not like it but he can take it.

It’s really not personal, I think you got passionate about it more than I had anticipated if we are being honest.

I fully respect how Tassie was built, the criticisms were pretty stockstandard, many had the same views, nothing dissimilar to what Cairns cop and it’ll be applied to future new teams.

The difference is, JJs beat it and you’re feeling vindicated plus you’ve got the small market chip on your shoulder with passion for your city which makes you defensive about your city, like Adelaideans are. I understand it, I’m an Adelaidean at heart and I’ve lived it most of my life. You didn’t like my humour, I get it. It’ll just mean you won’t like me - and I’m ok with that.

I don’t have an issue with you at all, I think you come across well, but at the same time I think you read what you want to read rather than what’s said and so you’ve laid out some more odd interpretations that just simply aren’t what I convey. I haven’t gone about justifying anything, I’m pretty relaxed with the notion that predictions aren’t perfect and I’m pretty confident that the logic stays true across time. I don’t feel the need to walk anything back and fully respect Tassie have defied odds and would be a good starting point for Adelaide to learn from.

I'm now in downtown Geelong very relaxed, think you need to re read some of your posts.

Adelaide just had a much improved game - will be fine

Geelong, ouch - stay safe please

cneers Ket just been out for Korean BBQ, Geelong has changed a bit.

Jealous - KBBQ is amazing

Hopefully you'll find time for Bellarine pensinsula gin distillery

So coach said Franklin going nowhere? What's going on?

When/where did that happen? They've been pretty open about replacing him. Maybe he’s gonna hang around as injury cover?

Any names on who the replacement will be?

He's most likely around until they pay him his buyout and can’t say he’s not on team anymore

Now officially gone.

Franklin departing is now official....by way of mutual consent.

Mutual lol Yeah I'm sure Franklin at age 32 wants an early departure from his third team in 12 months.

But at least it's done now and not dragging out all week.

Won't be easy to find a high end point guard at the moment I wouldn't have thought?

Any names been thrown around that people know of?

They need a scorer who can operate out of on-balls.

Do we know if Kell will be available for this weekend? Or are we going into round 1 with one import?