DataStream
Years ago

Its a Sturt Fest

In div 1 finals its a Sturt Fest. This is quite a result. I wonder if we will get something from the stats room after this weekend. Would be good to see how all the results go.

Under 12 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs West
Sturt vs Forestville

Under 14 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs Eastern
Sturt vs Forestville

Under 16 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs West
Sturt vs North Adelaide

Under 18 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs South
Sturt vs Norwood

Topic #10517 | Report this topic


been around  
Years ago

they work hard, train well - good luck to them.

Reply #121096 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Goodluck from a non Sturt member

Reply #121097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Great club, great coaches, absolutely fantastic recruiting pitch!

Reply #121109 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

goodluck to the eastern boy! go mavs!

Reply #121112 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well when they continue to poach the best from other Clubs and also have a high contingent of Country kids in there teams the result should have been expected.

Reply #121114 | Report this post


Scott Butler  
Years ago

#121114 (and #121113 as you are clearly the same person!),

This forum is nothing if predictable. Within hours of Sturt success this kind of post comes up.

I've been around this forum long enough to know that it is pointless discussing the following topics rationally: uneven competition, pro/rel, perceived poaching, zoning or Sturt success. I do not post on these issues anymore out of self preservation.

Actions speak louder than words.

Instead of debating the above points, I offer this (as I have in the past!) to you (#121114) and anyone else who believes you, or for that matter anyone else who is interested.

Please call me (if you try really hard you can find my number!) and arrange to follow me for the next week to see how hard our players and coaches are working. You will need to commit to every session, (early mornings and late nights are included), so that you can experience it.

Hopefully you will see just how hard we (and the other so-called super clubs for that matter, because we do not have a monopoly on hard work!) are working and you may gain a greater appreciation of the effort put in by the successful compared to the not.

My guess is that, as in the past, I will get zero response and you will keep sniping at us from the hills.

Reply #121117 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #121114 and #121113,

If it were that easy, then why does your club not do the same thing?

Why is it that Forestville, who have 2 State Country coaches, and numerous State country players does not have the same level of success? Nor North and there past success with players choosing to move from Centrals or from the country to play for them.

And how much money does your club spend on junior development in relation to senior teams?

Would love to see somebody take Butler up on his offer.

Reply #121122 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SB

Is it true that last year your Under 14 Girls Div 1 side had 5 Country girls and 3 first years.

Thats not hard work on the training track but hard work off it to get them in from far and away.

Reply #121128 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So did those 5 girls develop themselves through out the year. I forgot that sturt must not actually have coaches coaching there teams at games and training and extra trainings.

Reply #121129 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So the original post by anon # 121114 regarding bringing in Country kids was spot on.

What this means is Sturt have brought in quality country kids that did not need a great deal of development to bolster a weak age group in preference to not developing their 2nd year kids.

Many other Clubs do not have this luxury.

Reply #121134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SB -

with all due respect, don't make this into an 'us' vs 'everyone else'. It's that attitude (not any perceived tall poppy syndrome) why other clubs despise you.

Reply #121139 | Report this post


Spadge  
Years ago

I'm not a sturt supporter but would like to say good luck with ur finals games.
i would like to add that sb i would love to go and see how hard your club trains so that i could learn from ur club to help our western magic kids improve.

Reply #121143 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

anon #121114 and #121113,
Time to eat a shit sandwich.

Reply #121148 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

Good country kids will not make the sacrifices, do the hard yards, and travel all those miles based upon reputation.
They will see for themselves and make a valued decision based on comparisons to all available clubs. Some will choose Sturt some will choose others.
BUT they wont waste their time with a club that doesn't have the depth of coaches or good programs.
Its the SAME with kids / parents from weak clubs. If you don't want the kids to move then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Address the weaknesses in your club.
Forrestville did and in the space of a relatively short period of time have built a strong program.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

Reply #121152 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sector 7G - there is no post #121113 in this thread so your valid useless point made in (#121148) only further illustrates the small mindedness and lack of respect you and many others at your club posess.

Reply #121158 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The old "ring me at the Sturt office" routine.

Ahhh, good to see some things never change.

Reply #121160 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SB,

If DataStream is a sturt person I hardly think you can play the victim on this site (refer to your first point). Kleenex have a sale on.

Having said that it is an achievement to have so many teams competing in GFs. Well done.

Also nice cheap return fire in your last sentance, your post almost had my respect until then.

That is as far as I wish to comment.

Reply #121167 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

#121158
Sorry you're right - #121113 is not there.
BUT you're wrong - I'm not associated with Sturt.
Perhaps you'd like that spare sandwich.

Reply #121174 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sturt are a great club and no one can but admire the coaching staff but surely SB you can see that clubs with 50 or 60 junior teams, when your allowed only one Div 1 team is hurting the competition.
I strongly support clubs being able to run with 2 div 1 teams but I think until we wake up and allow it clubs like yours with dominant numbers are doing a diservice to the comp.
I'd also like to know why Sturt more than most, is against zoning?
IMO whilst you have a mortgage on talent and coaching at Sturt, in many grades, your constant recruiting in those grades rings hollow on your much vaunted development policy.
I respect your achievements but believe we will not produce the overall improvement in basketball until BSA creates clear boundaries in which clubs can develop players free of enticements from any other club interested in them.

Reply #121185 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#128815 - Since when was Sturt against zoning? question only not intended as a smart comment!I do agree though that Sturt and other large clubs should look within their own ranks and develop players - some kids havent been there since under 10's and some have a lot of talent but without opportunity and fine tuning (and with the influx of country kids to these Clubs) will be overlooked and not given the same opportunities! There may be some kids that will surprise the coaches if given the right development, training and guidance

Reply #121188 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

STurt are against Zoning because it will only decrease the level of commitment from other clubs. It will also stop the better players from getting good coaching and force players away fro basketball and into Football, Netball and Soccer.

Also, can you really divide up the territory between Sturt, Forestville and South and make it fair.

Under the current BSA development system. Sturt has 32 schools in it's zone, while North has 78. How is that fair.

Zoning is a football concept, buitl by a sport which is only a third tier sport. It is not an International Sport, It is not evern a truely Naiotnal sport because half the countries football population consider Rugby to be football.

Sturt is commited to developing international players. If other clubs want to be involved in social basketball then they should leave elite level district to those who want it.

Reply #121190 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Big statement # 190 that the other clubs wont be up to the level of commitment.
yes, you can divide areas geographically that will be as near to equal as humanly possible.
No, it does seem inequitible the number of schools in those areas, but surely that can be talked about and addressed.
Cricket zones, rugby and rugby league zone.
Zones would only impact on poaching clubs and would help provide a more reasonable spread of talent.
Your last comment on developing international players would be commendable if it wasn't said with such an element of distain for all the other clubs. While you belong to a club that has achieved a good deal and has wonderful people associated with it, you should be mindful that competitions need other clubs to compete with and if you are not mindful of that you will end up with 150 junior teams and no one to play.

Reply #121195 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i know that sturt poaches players for a fact,

They poached my daughter

Reply #121196 | Report this post


PPJC  
Years ago

I'm from one of the 'COUNTRY' associations that is a part of supplying the occasional player to Adelaide.

South - Lyall Gillett
South - Cameron Green
North - Lewis Johnston
North - Jenna Hoare
Norwood - Georgia Arnold
North - Abby Bishop

These are just a few of the higher named players from the Port Pirie competition who have made their way to Adelaide...... I don't seem to see Sturt on the list...... Every club looks to better their squad by sourcing the best available talent whether that be in Adelaide or in a Country town.....

I had emailed every club in Adelaide 3 years ago to come & have a look at a very talented squad of Port Pirie representatives at the Country Championships (Our current group of u18's) & 2 clubs responded - STURT & WEST ADELAIDE.

If Sturt are currently enjoying success it is obvious from the Country view point that they must be working hard for the outcome, even if it does mean they are recruiting from Country towns.

Reply #121198 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #195.

How can you divide up the area around Sturt and Forestville??? Address the number of schools. Come up with the proposal. Put it up here and we can all agree to it.

Union, League and Cricket. Is this the best you can come up with. Any sport which has Austalia and new Zearland as the top nations. With England as a top notch performer is not an international sprt. It is a commonwealt sport. Basketball is played in more countries than soccer. Soccer doesn't zone and it is the only sport that can be compared to Basketball.

The distain is this. Your club pays their ABA coach more than your junior coaching director. Then you complain about players leaving. Simple do this. Pay your coaching director a reasonable amount of money to do the job.

And if it ever gets to the point that Sturt is the only club then it is you who have failed. Im am sure that Forestville, North and Norwood will never let that happen. If fact I am sure that they are doing more than they did previously. That they are working out how to improve and get better. That they have great coaches and people on their commitee who are talking to Sturt about what they need to do to improve. just like Sturt talks to them about the great things they are doing. Problem is your club is not. Your club is only letting it happen. They/you are complaining about other clubs working there arses off and getting results.

Reply #121201 | Report this post


Maggie Thatcher  
Years ago

#121196 - well I hope when she jumped in the frying pan it didn't hurt daahhling. What a silly thing anyway letting them poach your daughter - you should have alerted the authorities!

Reply #121210 | Report this post


DataStream  
Years ago

I put this topic up purely because I wonderred if this had been done before. Not to bag any other club or to bag Sturt. The people that have replied saying its a great effort and left it at that are great. Why not acknowledge that it is a great feat. When completing the starting post I was merely looking at results on the Sportingpulse. Hence the alias.

Reply #121211 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

first thing if u do have a lot of country kids they wouldnt b training hard as they are probaly only making one of your 2 training sessions. and we all no there are a few familys in that club that splash there money around the club, and also splash it to make there kids get somewhere.

Reply #121227 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

just so you know i didnt take my daughter to Sturt

i told my club and sturt denined it all so that got away with it once again

Reply #121236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

clubs don't poach players, they ask the players to leave their club, which isn't that good to go to a better club where they will improve their game. Sturt happans to have one of the best programs going around, its as simple as that.

Reply #121239 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#121201)Im sure Sturt must be really busy with F/ville, North & Norwood constantly on the phone asking you what they need to do next to be as good as you already are, combined with training and developing juniours in both metro & country areas.

What a fantastic, selfless, giving club. Full marks to you.

Reply #121241 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#121239)You say clubs don't poach players, they ask the players to leave their club?

Yep, thats a definition of poching.

Well done to ALL the teams who have made the GF. Hopefully you can reward your hard work and the efforts of your coaches and parents with a win.

Hopefully you can gracious winners or losers and show some of your club officials how to act with some grace.

Reply #121251 | Report this post


DataStream  
Years ago

Some Results

Under 12 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs West - West Winners
Sturt vs Forestville - ??

Under 14 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs Eastern - Re-Scheduled
Sturt vs Forestville - Re-scheduled

Under 16 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs West - West Winners
Sturt vs North Adelaide - North Adelaide Winners

Under 18 Boys and Girls
Sturt vs South - Sturt Winners
Sturt vs Norwood - ??

Anyone please add to the results.

Reply #121260 | Report this post


Hoop Addict  
Years ago

U12 girls - Forestville
U18 girls - Norwood

Reply #121267 | Report this post


gotta win when you get there
only one team wins the grand final - well done to the winners - commiseartions to losers - see you all next weekend to do it all over again

Reply #121269 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Post deleted. Try not to be such a wanker next time.

Reply #121294 | Report this post


SB  
Years ago

So many anonymous snipers. All I have said is see what we do for a week and make up your own minds. No us vs them, no he said she said, no my club is better than your, no conspiracy theories and no taking shots at each other from anonymity.

If you don't want to follow me around, follow Schueller, Laurie, Weekes, Mesecke or any of the hard-working coaches in successful programs to see how hard they, their players and fellow coaches work.

Talk of zoning, poaching, country players, comp structure etc are a diversion and are excuses by people who are being outworked by those who are successful. Hard work equals success, that I am sure of.

Reply #121345 | Report this post


Sween  
Years ago

All this talk about how eggs may be cooked and a brand of mints. In the end, the kids dont really give a rats; they seem to be happy to play.

Reply #121350 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SB, hard work doesn't always belong to the top clubs exclusively nor is it the only consideration for success.
A labourer works harder than I do in a physical sense yet I earn more and the inequities of life are evident to most.
A level playing field would help more people judge if your club works harder than Joe Bloggs' club and that level playing field should start with zoning.
You could say that poaching and country players etc are diversions but I'd rather see them as discussion points to be debated.
I'm critical of Sturts country numbers as I see it as focussing on premierships above development as evidenced by Sturts under representation at state trials this weekend(considering they played off in the grand final)because of the number of country players you have.

Reply #121352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Didn't someone from a country association post just yesterday saying that they invited all clubs out to watch their talent perform, and Sturt was one of only two clubs to respond?

It's not just about hard work, it's about smart work.

Reply #121353 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #121352

What exactly are the inequalities?

Less than 7 years ago Sturt had 32 teams. About the same as Woodville. They are in the smallest area of anybody. They are closely boarded by Forestville and South, with the hills at their back door.

During that period they have had no home stadium twice. For 18 months when the original Sturt Stadium burnt down. And again with the floors at Pasadena.

So what exactly does Sturt have that your club does not?

8 years ago Scott Butler started the OZ hoops program. Form there the club has been the only club in SA that has employed somebody full time to devote to junior development. Why does your club not do the same?

Over that same period Forestville has probably improved more. They have also increase the number of teams as well as improving the level of there coaching and playing stocks. Funnily enough they are in the process of working out a way to pay somebody full time to devote more effort into their juniors, becasue they care about junior basketball in SA.

Again, what is your club doing???

How much money are they paying the ABA coach to coach 1 team??

How much money does your ABA team cost your club??

How many of your coaches give up there time to do SASI???

How many of your coaches do individuals for players in there free time???

When you have all of these things worked out. Come back and see what effect it has on your club.

My bet is that your club will say that it is easier to focus on winning ABA and not bother with juniors. (not in those words but in their actions) And you will then maybe realise how hard it really is to be successfull.

Reply #121357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I accept there is a lot of truth in your reply but still think that does not diminish the argument for zones.

Reply #121360 | Report this post


Keith Hernandez  
Years ago

121352:

"I'm critical of Sturts country numbers as I see it as focussing on premierships above development as evidenced by Sturts under representation at state trials this weekend(considering they played off in the grand final)because of the number of country players you have"

Which state trials are you referring to - Girls? Boys? Metro? Country? Which age group?

In the U/16 Metro Boys, Sturt has four kids in the 20 man squad (as does West who won the Summer season, and Norwood has 5)- seems a pretty reasonable number dont you think?

Reply #121365 | Report this post


Observer  
Years ago

Keith

I think you will find that a lot of sturt kids are multi talented at district cricket, u/17 footy and other activities and have commitments on saturday arvos and week nights. I know of 3 that did not go out due to this very reason, 1 kid would have made it but he has chosen another path away from bball all together.

Having to choose at this age group will always mean kids dropping out.

This is why you will find that 4 or 5 ( 3 gone already) of last years u/14 bronze winning nationals team and a couple more of the previous years gold medal team will have probably left the sport by years end. - At the age of in some instances 14.

There is not a lot you can do about this as kids start to chase their passions and hone in on their dreams.

Reply #121373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #121352 and #121360.

The argument for zones is that they create a poor allocation of resources. Any intervention in a market place, (and we are involved in providing a service) creates a distortion of resource allocation.

Clubs would have no reason to follow Forestville and Sturt becasue they would not need to worry about players moving clubs if they provide a poor service. Also it would restict the ability of those people willing to develop programs like Aussie Hoops and miniball becasue of boundries.

In the current enviroment your club is not willing to do enough to develop.

How would zoning improve your clubs commitment to junior sport?

How would zoning improve your clubs development program?

How would zoning increase the number of players playing basketball?

How much money are they paying the ABA coach to coach 1 team and how would zoning change this??

How much money does your ABA team cost your club and how would zoning improve this??

How many of your coaches give up there time to do SASI and how would zoning effect this???

How many of your coaches do individuals for players in there free time and with zoning why would they need to change this???

Zoning is purely about clubs not needing to do work to improve. But rather clubs being stopped from working hard to improve.

Reply #121376 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Some of the worse performing Clubs have the biggest areas. What are they doing? Talking a lot but doing nothing.

Reply #121385 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(and we are involved in providing a service)

I don't know about the rest of you, but i play and coach for enjoyment, and fun. Not to 'provide a service.'

Reply #121389 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

social basketball vs basketball for development. i hope you're playing social then?

Reply #121390 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

that's your problem. The two arn't mutually exclusive. You can have fun and develop, contrary to your belief's

Reply #121393 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Individuals volunteer there time for enjoyment and fun. Not just coaches, but also team managers, committee people etc.

But clubs and the sport as a hole provide a service.

Does the sport provide the necessary reward for a families outlay in relation to other activities? ie other sports like football, netball, soccer. or other activities like skatboarding, surfing, family holidays etc.

Do some clubs provide a better service to members and therefore do more people want to become members of those clubs?

What yo might find is that a clubs job is to proide a service to its members. Some clubs don't even undestand that this is there core responsibility.

If you dont. Players will go to other sports or other clubs.

Reply #121394 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

This isn't really my topic, but I'm going to jump in here.

You took issue with someone identifying that they were providing a service. But they are. Juniors pay, right?

Then you've suggested that someone who suggests that those only in it for fun would better suit social basketball has a "problem". ('That's your problem.')

A district club and coach can have fun and provide a service - you're right that they're not mutually exclusive, but you've made no headway against the argument that a marketplace without interference will provide the best competition and drive to succeed.

I've worked in companies (OK, run my own) that must work to stay alive. I've also worked in a government organisation that provides the same service, but is propped up artificially - that government organisation stagnated, the staff were lazy and did not stay abreast of advances in their fields.

If you prop up a club with artificial support (funding, bail-outs, guaranteed number of customers [which is what zoning is partly about, surely?], etc) then they have no impetus to work hard. That doesn't mean that they won't work hard, but things can certainly drift quickly in that direction.

Reply #121396 | Report this post


Economics101  
Years ago

My first post here to this thread. I dont agree with 121389 however I also do not agree with.

"marketplace without interference will provide the best competition and drive to succeed"

I understand your point. BUT

This is not entirely accurate IMO. Purely competitive markets do not really exist in real life - perhaps they only do in some commodity, agricultural markets. They are a theoretical concept used to highlight components of various markets. Most markets have some form of interference. Why is this the case? There are many, many reasons why but quite simply purely competitive markets do not succeed especially in service type industries.

Take Pro/Rel for example. IMO if that was introduced some kind of controls would need to be introduced along with it.

Reply #121398 | Report this post


Economics102  
Years ago

Think about monopolistic competitive markets, and some of the components of those markets.

Reply #121400 | Report this post


me  
Years ago

Woohooo..i have no interest nor bias in the Sturt Vs the rest discussion.

Here's my take poaching happens every day, whether its one friend says to another..hey you should play for us. It an only work if the player being poached sees a benefit in changing. If his/her current team is supplying what the player needs and is a chance at playing finals..im sure they will stay, if not..they will go.

So, build a good club and they will stay. simple?

Reply #121401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac -

Fair call - i guess my connotations with 'service' are to make a profit. I see basketball as a not-for-profit.

I read " i hope you're playing social then?" to mean there is no place for fun in district ball.

"you've made no headway against the argument that a marketplace without interference will provide the best competition and drive to succeed."
That's because i agree (conceptually). I'm a massive beleiver in laissez-faire, however there's not the right groundwork in place for it to be able to work, as economic principles suggest.

"If you prop up a club with artificial support (...which is what zoning is partly about, surely?...) then they have no impetus to work hard. That doesn't mean that they won't work hard, but things can certainly drift quickly in that direction. "
Sure - that can happen, long-term.

If you give 10 farmers 10 seeds, the most efficient farmers will grow 10 plants, earn 100 dollars, and buy 100 seeds. Inefficient farmers will grow 5 plants, earn 50 dollars and buy 50 more seeds.
Over time, as the efficient farmers become more efficient, they can sell for less, (economies of scale) and the inefficient farmers will eventually go out of business. You'll be left with only the efficient farmers competing against each other.

However, if you got the same 10 farmers, and you give 3 of them 20 seeds, 3 of them 8 seeds and 4 of them 2 seeds, immediately due to economies of scale the 4 farmers with only 2 seeds will go out of business, the 3 farms with 8 will struggle, and if they are really really good farmers, they'll survive, while the 3 farmers with 20 seeds all get a free ride to a market with less competitors and no real need to compete short-term.

Reply #121402 | Report this post


me  
Years ago

sorry for the typo's above.

Reply #121403 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

"However, if you got the same 10 farmers, and you give 3 of them 20 seeds, 3 of them 8 seeds and 4 of them 2 seeds, immediately due to economies of scale the 4 farmers with only 2 seeds will go out of business, the 3 farms with 8 will struggle, and if they are really really good farmers, they'll survive, while the 3 farmers with 20 seeds all get a free ride to a market with less competitors and no real need to compete short-term. "

- An oligopoly. Thats exactly what I think we will end up with if we are not careful. Probably already have one actually.

Reply #121404 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Any current market distortion can be disproved by the fact that some clubs have improved and some moved downwards.

Again. Less than 10 years ago Sturt were struggling with only 32 teams.

Forestville were not scoring any points at State Champs.

And even further back West and North had 2 teams in div 1 in most grades.

Where have Sturt and Forestville improved?

I would be suggesting that they have been doing a good job with there effort and focus.

Why can't the other clus simply do the same?

Reply #121409 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Why can't the other clus simply do the same?"

External market forces that arn't applied liberally to all clubs.

Reply #121412 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

examples please.

already read about sturt going without a stadium twice, forestville moving stadiums, both teams crammed with south into a small recruitment area.

Reply #121414 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

"Why can't the other clus simply do the same?"

Geographic positions. Socieconomic differences.

Market based misconceptions.

Difficulty in retaining good people in a challenging (loosing) environment.

Reply #121416 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

For a pure competitive market to exist you need the following:

- Many buyers and sellers
- A homogenous product
- Sufficient knowledge
- Free entry

The last 3 do not exist. The 2nd one will never exist in a service based environment and the 3rd one is unlikely to exist in any sporting environment. The 4th does not exist in the current environment.

Reply #121417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

But are the other club doing the things that Forestvile and Sturt did to improve?

I say not.

And zoning and other intervention will not change the effort and focus of these clubs.

Reply #121428 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

You seem to look at clubs as a static entity. IE like a company; with consistent "owners". You attack other "clubs" for not doing enough. Are you attacking the "clubs" for the work they didnt do 5 yrs ago or the work you think they are not doing now. Its non-sensical because its more than likely an entirely different set of people are now running these clubs the only common them is the clubname because the people in it are entirely different.

The thing is the people in clubs have consistently changed over the yrs. The thing that makes a club is its people and the people are always changing.

Some kind of zoning means clubs can attract people/parents/players/coaches in their area. All of a sudden you have a new set of people at the 'lesser' clubs and more of them.

Reply #121434 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In theory. In reality many will say "if I can't play for the club I want to, I won't play at all".

Reply #121438 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"But are the other club doing the things that Forestvile and Sturt did to improve?"

Some they are, some they can't due to an uneven playing field.

"And zoning and other intervention will not change the effort and focus of these clubs."

That's not the intention, it simply to level the playing field, and allow the more efficient clubs to flourish. It seems some of the larger clubs are scared that if the perks they receive are removed, and they forced to compete evenly against all clubs, they may be exposed.

Reply #121439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#121438) - that's why there's social ball.

Reply #121443 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is zoning in place for private schools?

Reply #121455 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

121455, are we going to make it compulsory for kids to go to basketball? Is the government going to fund basketball clubs?

If so, then that question is valid.

Reply #121460 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It seems some of the larger clubs are scared that if the perks they receive are removed, and they forced to compete evenly against all clubs, they may be exposed.

That is laughable. The larger clubs do not receive any perks - they are prospering from hard work (whether it be past or present or both). The field IS even, it's just some go about working the field hard, whilst others just sit back and whinge when the workers fields are showing the fruits of their labour.

Reply #121463 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

121460 I said "PRIVATE schools"

Reply #121464 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#121345)SB, your comment that there are so many anonymous snipers is pretty funny. You might want to ask around your own back yard in your own office before you have a go at all the other anon snipers, as you call them.

I agree with one of your 1st posts on this thread when you say nothing much has changed on this site.

Sure, 1 negitive comment and we have an official from Sturt telling us how hard working you all are, how only a couple of clubs are trying to do the right thing (with sturts help of course!) and to give you a ring at the club to discuss it further.

Cant remember the last time one of your major competitor clubs (if you think there is one at all) had an official get on here and have a go at (what was then) one negitive comment.

Yep, nothing has changed alright.

Congrats to ALL teams who played off in GF's on the weekend, well done to all involved.


Reply #121473 | Report this post


Economics104  
Years ago

Do you mean that some clubs dont work hard OR do you mean the people in some clubs dont work hard? What if you were to change the people in those clubs?

Its compulsory for kids to go to school, right? It is not compulsory for kids to play basketball, right? If you go to a private school in Elizabeth you don't have to travel to lessons in Pasadena or Marion do you?

Some clubs are contending with: Distance to travel, poorer socioeconomic areas, smaller recruiting numbers(IE eventhough sturt, south etc. share their recruiting area the market size is bigger. If a disgruntled player leaves sturt they are not going to move to Centrals, they may move to SOuth though) etc. etc.

Yes, the good players/families leave these clubs, players go right past the door of these clubs etc. etc. The good basketball/sporting families often go to the clubs that the "service is better". If these families were forced to go to the less successful clubs then all of a sudden you have those same families "reinventing" those clubs.

Zoning may not be a good thing to have permanently in place but if you were going to open up the markets under pro/rel perhaps zoning should also be looked at for a period of time (EG 3-5 yrs)??

Reply #121476 | Report this post


Russell Dalrymple  
Years ago


Economics 104,

You have tried to introduce economic theory to mask your general inability to argue on a basketball level. I would suggest you talk a little less "Michael Porter" and a little more "Michael Jordan".

To begin with posts (#121400) , (#121417) does not at all lend any weight to the discussion on basketball.

Competitive (not purely competitive but highly competitive) markets do exist and "work" in service industries  why do you think its so much cheaper now to get a tax return done, fly to Melbourne or to hook up an internet connection than it was a few years ago.

They succeed becase companies who don't allocate their recources efficiently are forced to lift their standards and employ best practice to keep up with the competition. Those that don't, fall by the way side, and those that do stay in the industry. The benefits are ultimately returned to a) the consumer and b) the companies that are innovative and efficent.

To put this into a basketball perspective, Sturt succeed in junior basketball because they allocate the bulk of their recources to programs that are of the greatest need to the market (junior basketball programs) and don't misuse them with programs that are not sought after as highly (we spend the appropriate amount of money to fund our ABL teams, but we dont overspend in the chase to win a title that might bankrupt our club).

Why should we manufactuer an environment, where recources (either player numbers, monetary or otherwise) are continually given to those that have a proven track record of allocating them incorrectly. Isaac's right  it would just turn into a "public sector" situation where there is no "real" pressure to work efficiently.

Case in point - going back 8-9 years, all clubs recieved a development grant by BASA. Some clubs put this recource directly into their junior programs and are now seeing the benefits. Sturt used this recource as the impetus (sorry Isaac, to good a word not to use again in this thread) to start the Oz Ball program and the domestic competition. Other clubs put the recources into other areas (ABL imports) and are now paying for it through lower team numbers and poor results.

What has made this error even worse for those clubs, is that they are too proud to admit they were/are wrong and refuse to learn from the successful models where best practice methods are being used.

Its not a good situation if clubs were folding and we were left with 3-4 super clubs, but this would not be the case if the weaker clubs made a serious effort improving their systems, changing their philosophies and "living within their means".

And lastly, you said  "You attack other "clubs" for not doing enough. Are you attacking the "clubs" for the work they didnt do 5 yrs ago or the work you think they are not doing now. Its non-sensical because its more than likely an entirely different set of people are now running these clubs the only common them is the clubname because the people in it are entirely different"

This is true - Sturt have had three presidents in the past ten years, so there is change in the administration at clubs. However, we have continued to keep the same focus to develop our juniors first and foremost throughouit all these different administartions and have remained at the fore front of junior basketball during this time. How does this fit with your argument?


Reply #121483 | Report this post


Hillbilly  
Years ago

It really is very simple.

RESULTS are a BI PRODUCT of an extremely good coaching structure - any sport, any level.

Forget about zoning or any of that crap, they are Just EXCUSES for poor programming.

STURT and Forestville get the results due to their programs.

Let SB and his hordes of merry men coach our kids anyday.

Get Rid of the crap teams and have 6 strong teams. Make the no hopers and pretenders from down south and up the hill disappear or amalgamate.

Lets see how strong the new body controlling the sport are - Change for the betterment of the game and get rid of the whingers that have made the sport go backwards and bankrupt over the past 30 years.

Reply #121487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Results, Hillbily, are the by-product of having strong player stocks and a wide recruiting program aimed in all directions. Coaches are important but while Sturt and Forestville etc have the numbers to choose from they will continue to smash the rest irrespective of who was coaching them.
Yes by all means get rid of the crap teams and have 6 then watch it fall to 4 and less. There is no competition for the major clubs now and shortsighted , 'my club is better than your club' thinking will eventually see basketball drop in popularity and become statistically unimportant.
Club versus club needs to end and clubs need to have a united face to strengthen basketball and make the comp more even and stronger week in and week out.
The National results give a better picture of the state of district in SA and how the lack of real weekly competition has bred mediocrity. Sturt smashing whoever in the 14 girls by 100 pts doesn't breed success it, breeds average.Until clubs realize a stronger district comp is the goal and shaft the club mentality we will continue to celebrate 3rd, 4th and 5th positions Nationally and continue to brag about how our individual clubs have all the answers.

Reply #121509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Under 14 Nationals lately?? Where the hell have you been? Classics results are great, perhaps the State coaches need more careful consideration?

Reply #121521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Economics 104.

Who exactly is going to be able to determine equal share of zones to give each club an EQUAL share of the pie?

When they need to take into considestion economic diversity, basketball hereity, assertain the number of families not currently playing basketball that will in the future make good coaches and presidents for each club. etc

What happens when the demographics change in the future? How will the zones be redivided? Who will deceide which clubs need to have their boundries increased becasue they don't have enough committee memebers inside there boundry to make the club successful? Or what about when a certain area changes from being a family area to being a old age area?

What happens when people move because of work or an increase in family size? Will they be forced to change club? Will people need to spend money to move so that they can choose to play where it is best for there child like they do in football?

Economics 104. Thank you for showing us all that boundries will only be a different method of providing resource allocation that cannot possibly be equal.

If you are able to answer these question I suggest that you are given the job. Oh and that of God becasue you would need his omnipotent understanding to make it fair.

The only thing Zoning can do is make clubs successful without them having to do any work!

Reply #121522 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#522
Exactly as you said, zoning will make clubs successful and we wouldnt want that!

Reply #121535 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#521
Now your blaming coaches for the lack of success at nationals-neat trick!
Under 14 have a club nationals and clearly Ive been to places other than you but I was referring to 16 plus.
Small ideas and objectives win club's premierships but the lack of competition means a drought for us nationally. Super clubs build egos not talent.

Reply #121536 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

There is no doubt that Sturt and Forrestville are doing a great job and have some innovative hard working people involved in all areas of their club. Is it just a coincidence that they have both prospered with the advent of the 2 new 3 court facilities that certainly do give them an advantage over most other clubs. This is not their fault but there is not an even playing field and there will never be one.
There will always be a need for small clubs and there will always be success stories at these clubs, both team and individual. There will be good and bad coaching at all clubs and this can not be measured by results alone. The Sturts, Forrestvilles etc will continue to improve whilst they seek to win overall honours and there will be instances of success elsewhere. Parents will choose the club for there children based on many factors and to some big is not always best. There have and will always be stories of success against the odds and in some instances a single age chmpionship will mean as much to a small club as an overall championship to a so called super club.
Those that play administer and coach the game are in general all good people and deserve repect regardless of what club they represent.

Reply #121541 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

People here keep referring to how well Forestville perform and "smashing" other teams. Sorry I don't see that at all in the results. Sure, they have improved but are not stand outs. I'll give credit to Sturt where, by coaching, or players stocks, either developed or poached, or allocation of resources have prospered. Any sensible organisation should at least assess what Sturt have done and determine how they can learn from Sturt and decide what they, as a club, is prepared to copy, change or improve upon to be successful.

Reply #121542 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anonomous

Forestville has always played out of one of the premier stadiums in SA. For years they had 3 courts and didn't do well.

Over the last 7 years, Sturt have twice been without a stadium at all. For 18 Months when the original Sturt stadium was burnt down. And again for the last 9 months with the floor at Pasadena. Each time it has cost the club about $1000 per week.

And again Sturt was as maller club that has improved and Forestville was not sucessful. Both worked hard for there success.

20 Years ago Norwood didn't have any good players or even a guarenteed div 1 spot. They did a massive amount of work and development with Terry Aston and Damien Weks working tirelessly to dvelop their junior program. Hard work not zoning got them to where they are today.

West Adelaide have a 3 court stadium. While Soutern and Centrals have a 4 court stadium.

Reply #121546 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #121535

What I said was that it will make some clubs successful without needing to put in efoort. This very well could be the same clubs now that are successful because they have develope a basketball culture in their local district.

What it is more likely to do is make a large number of kids stop playing the sport becasue they are unhappy with the club they are currently at and are not allowed to play some place else.

This will only decrease the overall level of talent in baskeball.

Reply #121547 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 121546
If you believe that there is no relationship between the advent of the 2 new stadiums and the improved success of Sturt and Forrestville you are in denial. This is not a critisism but a fact. Newish facilities ability to raise funds from excellent bar and canteen facilities, central location good club structure on and off court = success.

Reply #121562 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

can't other clubs emulate that good club structure?

Reply #121568 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anonomous,

Ignorance is bliss isn't it.

Sturt have only been running the canteen at Pasadena since mid 2005. From 1998 until 2001 they didn't even have a stadium. During this period of no Canteen or Bar revenue they managed to win 2 out of 3 overall State Championships.

From 2001 - 2005 the school ran the canteen and Sturt were not allowed to run there own. During this period Sturt won 4 out of 5 State Champion Club titles.

For the last 9 months Sturt has again been without a stadium and managed to have all 21 team make the Grand Finals.

As for central location. Why is it the Woodville and South are not doing well when there location is just as central.

As for facilities, why are Woodville and Cnetrals not doing well when they have use of the best facilities in the state.

Stadium size. Why was Sturt able to win 7 State Club Champion titles during the 90's when the only had a 2 court stadium to play out of.

I guess none of this has anything to do with hard work, but more to do with being given opportunity.

Sure i the future Pasadena might benefit Sturt, but by then it might not matter.

Reply #121577 | Report this post


God  
Years ago

121483, I am only trying to apply economic principles to demonstrate how the principal of a purely competitive market cannot be applied to a service industry, consisting of mostly volunteers like district basketball (as 121376 beleives). Talking about purely competitive markets and basketball is like trying to say chalk and cheese are the same thing.

121522, I dont know if you would zone inner city clubs.

I think the clubs you might consider zoning would be Eastern, Southern and Centrals. If we were to consider the concept that some clubs work harder than others I would propose that its the people in some clubs that work harder.

Therefore, wouldnt the best way to effect change, along with pro/rel, be to include some kind of zoning to help effect change of personnel at the clubs that work less?

In reality I think its a case of more people in the larger clubs working harder (a kind of economies of scale effect). Could zoning effect a change in this club sizes/economies of scale as well?

Reply #121579 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So God, as a by-product for working less, you are REWARDED with better players being forced to go there?

What incentive there is to be hard-working in your world!

Reply #121587 | Report this post


God  
Years ago

The key question I have is; "do clubs work harder or the people in them?" A club doesnt work this just does not make sense it is a thing/a concept made of people which do the work etc. you speak of.

Better players = more success = better players staying longer = more players attracted = better parents staying longer = parents prepared to put in more time = attracting more coaches = new people in a club = new culture = new club.... might only take 3-5 yrs for the change to be effected.

Ever tried saying to a Southern kids' parents in U10s / U12s at trials that they will be playing at Starplex or Hillcrest? Its not an even playing field for some clubs. Its not a pure market.

Reply #121589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

God,

A "Club" is a group of people who participate in an activity together. Therefore to answer your quewstion they are one in the same.

Name a market which has an even playing field. Some service providors have greater resources than others. Some have larger market share currently.

Look at telecommunications. Telstra had a monopoly. Surely no other telecommunications providor would be able to get larger with only unlimited access. But results show a different result.

Look at the camera market. Kodak had an 90% market share. They even developed digital technology. But failed to properly improve their systems and other companies worked harder and smarter than them and took away market share.

Look at basketball. During the 80's North and West were the dominant clubs. Surely they would then be the dominant clubs now? Why not? Maybe becasue they were out worked by other clubs like Southern in the 90's. Sturt and Norwood also improved, with North had good years and not so good years. north rectified itself, while West has been doing outstanding in boys and not in girls. If you think that West have not been putting more work into their boys program than there girls you are kidding.

So better players and more success does not = families staying longer etc, otherwise we would never have a change in any market for who has the best market share.

Southern didn't have any problem tell there kids that they had to play at Hillcrest and Gawler when the won State Champion Club in 1998. Nor did they struggle to convince Country players to play for them. Perhaps they have just made some poor decisions as a club. And any zoning will only be a reward for poor decision and therefore is a move to reward those decisions. This will only lead to clubs making further poor decisions in the future and expecting more concessions.

Reply #121599 | Report this post


121402  
Years ago

(#121599) - you really have no idea of economics do you?

The two examples you pulled, Telecommunications (monopoly) and Camera (oligopoly) are among the worst examples going around.

Why?

High barriers to entry. There aren't high barrier to entry into the basketball 'market'. Try something like Farming or Furniture Making.
With furniture making, anyone with a few tools (access to a court, and a couple of moltens) and a bit of knowledge (coaches) can make and sell furniture. If they make good furniture, then they are a success. Sure you'll always have the IKEA's (sturt) and the Freedom's (norwood), with you're le Cornu's (north) then your other smaller teir furniture makers ie Bob's Furniture (West). But in this market, if you put a tax on 'making' furniture, let's say a flat rate of $100,000 a year and IKEA's selling 50 couches a year, while Trevor's furniture (Centrals) are selling only 20, of course IKEA are going to benefit. Economies of scale. Hope this clears up your confusion.

Reply #121612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

121402,

You have ago at the anon above for not having an understanding of economics - well I don't either.
BUT I read the BASKETBALL part of his post - and it made perfect sense ie the last 3 posts. Certainly rebutted God's post quite well. Your post is all nerd-talk and text books, the anon at least applied what looks pretty obvious to us "Ordinary Joes" some sound observations....

Reply #121617 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

whooops, that should be the last 3 paragraphs, not posts.

Reply #121618 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #121612

That is the exact point that I was trying to make. People like yourself are suggesting that it is not possible for clubs to develop.

Even in Monopoloes and Oligopolies we have seen competition as improving the market place. Rather than the big swqallow up the small.

The point I was arguing was that it was impossible for some clubs to get bigger due to barriers. In these market situation are the hardest to break but have been done so successfully by efficent and well orgainsed companies.

Therefore having a weaker club develop should not be as hard relatively due to less barriers to develop. See Norwood during the 80's. And Sturt and Forestvile in the last 10 years.

Not sure what you are trying to say with the $100 000 per year cost for furniture. All clubs do not have the same costs. The more teams you have the greater cost to run these teams as training venues become progressively more expensive. I think yo will find that Sturt and Forestville have the largest amounts to pay on court hire probably due to them bidding against each other for training times.

So the only other cost to a club is paying ABA players.

Are you suggesting that we should decrease competition so that clubs can contiue to overpay ABA teams which will not make money in the future? (ie continue to allow clubs to poorly divert resources from juniors to seniors)

This is my understnading of what zoning will do!

Reply #121631 | Report this post


Russell Dalrymple  
Years ago

121402, God and Economics 104 (or whatever other alias you want to go with)

Some of us are well versed in Economics (would you like me to draw you the graph on how the government is taxing smokers not because they want them to stop smoking, but for the profits they make because smokers would rather pay higher prices than give up?) - and believe that although you seem to have a handle on Economic concepts you dont have a clue about basketball.

You can spin econoic and market forces theory all you like to support your position (just like you can shape game stats to tell any story you like about a basketball game) - but the bottom line is you are flawed.

The fact remains it has been proven that clubs who allocate their recources effiently, effectively and innovatively and who look seek out and employ best practice rise above the crowd (regardless of market structure).

As I stated in the past, when it was a "level playing feild" a few years ago in Development funding; certain clubs abused these hand outs (because they allocated them inaffectively) and others prospered because they used the funding to their maximum advantage. I would be a huge mistake to go back down this path and try to even things up with things like zoning, player allocations etc - you are just rewarding mediocrity.

Regardless of what market structure you want to apply to the BASA district competition, some clubs have an inability to prosper because they dont know how to manage their recources effectively AND /OR refuse to accept proposals for reform that those clubs who have clearly dominated junior basketball have put forward (they dont wnat to be helped).

Therefore, they will flounder regardless of what structure is actually occuring and what benefits/restrictions are made on the competition

Why punish the clubs who do know what they are doing?

I suggest you focus less on the economics and more on the actual facts and history of the competition and clubs.

Reply #121636 | Report this post


God  
Years ago

Russel, I agree with steering away from economics - its complicating the issue. I think you will find that I only entered this discussion after Isaac and an anonymous poster started trying to use economic concepts (121398) to backup their arguments.

I will keep this argument simple.

Do not blame "club's" for their success or failure. This is stupidity. A district club (especially the lesser ones) cycle through their people at least every 3 to 4 yrs. There is an entirely (bar Damian (who you could argue does not the same focus as in the 80s - 90s) and Jenny) new set of people at Norwood now than were there during the 80s and 90s.

Why do the lesser clubs consistently fail? Solve that, faciliate change and you will have a far stronger competition and it also just happens that these lesser District clubs tend to be in the more rapidly expanding populations in the state and represent the greatest opportunities to grow basketball.

Reply #121642 | Report this post


Economics  
Years ago

"refuse to accept proposals for reform that those clubs who have clearly dominated junior basketball have put forward (they dont wnat to be helped)." these decisions were made by people in certain clubs.

Can you explain to me how zoning would not change a club (well actually the people in a club)?

I reckon pro/rel, zoning, regional comps for younger age groups could all help faciliate change. Soon the entire personnel makeup of "clubs" change. Logos may even change, colours etc. You say "clubs" do/did this, clubs do/did that it just does not make sense to me to say that. Clubs cant do anything. Its people that do things.

Reply #121647 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Economics/God

The problem is that it will not necessarily improve any club.

Those people that are forward thinking and have the undestanding to make improvements are moving becasue there current clubs structure does not.

Remember. People aer afraid of change.

Under Zoning. Rather than more to a progreeeive club. They will move to anoter Sport.

Reply #121651 | Report this post


Russell Dalrymple  
Years ago

God,

You said - "Do not blame "club's" for their success or failure. This is stupidity. A district club (especially the lesser ones) cycle through their people at least every 3 to 4 yrs".

As I have mentioned above, Sturt has had three different presidents in 10 yrs and has still remained at the top of their game throughout all of this. The clubs that are suffering through poor results and poor numbers ARE to blame (its not "stupid" to blame them at all) - they were to blame 10 yrs ago and they are to blame now.

You said - "Why do the lesser clubs consistently fail?"

The problem is not the market structure, dynamic administration, demographic differences of their geographic area - the problem is that some clubs either dont know how to change OR dont want to change. The former problem has been addressed both formerly (with various proposals put forward by the more successful clubs at Junior Committees) and informerly (through discussion between stakeholders, including this forum). The later can only be solved by the clubs members revolting and putting in a new management and supporting change for the better of the whole comp.

Neither of these solutions will be affected by handouts or restrictions being imposed by the market (or the market facilitater in BSA). They are internal issues.

Reply #121679 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Economics/God

Are you saying that some clubs decisions to use $10K to spend on ABA playersd rather than a JDO back 10 years ago has had nothing to do with that clubs development?

Do you really think that forcing kids to play for a specific club rather than allow them to choose is actually going to increase particiaption rates? Or could these kids actually leave the sport?

Considering most clubs are run by 10 people you argument that keeping these people in clubs will strengthen them is ridiculous. The people who change are those that have given up trying to fix there clubs or have been told there efforts are not needed becasue they don't follow the clubs philosophy.

In the current enviroment your club is not willing to do enough to develop.

How would zoning improve your clubs commitment to junior sport?

How would zoning improve your clubs development program?

How would zoning increase the number of players playing basketball?

How much money are they paying the ABA coach to coach 1 team and how would zoning change this??

How much money does your ABA team cost your club and how would zoning improve this??

How many of your coaches give up there time to do SASI and how would zoning effect this???

Quote God "I think the clubs you might consider zoning would be Eastern, Southern and Centrals. If we were to consider the concept that some clubs work harder than others I would propose that its the people in some clubs that work harder."

So really you are just looking after clubs that are struggling, not actually at helping basketball. Oh wait. Southern won the State Junior Club Championship in 1998 without any help. Do you want me to pinpoint the decision they have made since then to show you exactly why zoning would not help this?

Reply #121709 | Report this post


In the Know  
Years ago

Yes I would like to know.

Reply #121716 | Report this post


Victorian  
Years ago

I look on from afar and see that nothing has changed in the land of the great white flop when it comes to administration of our great game. Absolutely nothing will be done and effect any change with your comp because of some of your flea infested self interested loser clubs that will never go anywhere.

I am visiting your lovely state and staying at my hillbilly mates place, but reading topic on a great site makes one wonder how the sturts and forestvilles of your comp continually put up with the diatribe that eminates obviously from the northern and southern regions of your wonderful metropolis.

I would tell you now our top clubs would not even think about coming here if sturt weren't around or whats his name, butler, mesecke and co weren't involved.

There is a saying when you fly into Adelaide - not only do you fly back 30 minutes on the clock but 30 years in time. Unfortunately some of your clubs are still back there.

By the way who are this Western Magnets crowd ? Pinched our Darebin tops and Colours.

By the way enjoy your Grand Prix this weekend and thanx again Hillbilly for some great hospitality.

Reply #121717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Victorian, your ability to suck up is matched only by your modesty-all class.

Reply #121740 | Report this post


121402  
Years ago

(#121617)

Your post is all nerd-talk and text books

Did you not read my post?

All i did was relate the furniture insudtry to the basketball industry. It's hardly rocket science champ. If that's too deep for you, i suggest you ask your year 3 teacher for some extra tutoring.

(#121636) - don't confuse my posts with the self proclaimed god/economics. That smoking graph you'd like to draw would be incorrect, the graph representing smoking and taxing would be showing the elastisity of the product. Nice try though.

The fact remains it has been proven that clubs who allocate their recources effiently, effectively and innovatively and who look seek out and employ best practice rise above the crowd

Your partly right. But understand that not all clubs receive the same resources, and this isn't through their own doing. Sure some resources are gained through the club, but not all. There are constraints put on some clubs and not others. This is the un-even playing field. So while two clubs may work equally hard, and efficiently, other factors, such as contraints and resources simply don't allow the same level of results.

a few years ago in Development funding; certain clubs abused these hand outs
No one's disputing that, but as you'd admitted the management has changed some, so while some clubs are digging out of a hole, other a climbing a mountain of success. That was a while ago, and should be your only reason for trying to keep other clubs down.


Regardless of what market structure you want to apply to the BASA district competition, some clubs have an inability to prosper because they dont know how to manage their recources effectively
Sure. But at least BSA should provide all clubs with a chance!

Reply #121810 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yup, and I read your recent post - nothings changed. You use all the fancy jargon and theories, whilst the anonymous poster flat out said what has happened and is happening in the basketball world. His I understand and can relate to, yours is all theory and excuses.

I did ask my grade 3 teacher, she said you've lost when you insult the person instead of debate the post....

Reply #121823 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sure. But at least BSA should provide all clubs with a chance!

Ahhhh, so now it's BSA's fault that some clubs are struggling. Perhaps instead of coming up with excuses (which are mostly pathetic) and just shrugging their shoulders and saying "It's all too hard with our ( location/resources/money/facilities/insert cop-out here)" they should work out what they want to achieve and how to go about achieving it - without hand-outs.
But it won't happen, it's a lot easier to come on here moaning about "the have's"

Reply #121827 | Report this post


Russell Dalrymple  
Years ago

121402,

You Said - "That smoking graph you'd like to draw would be incorrect, the graph representing smoking and taxing would be showing the elastisity of the product" - YOU'RE Incorect. The "product" is not elastic, the "demand" is elastic. I'm quite aware what "PED" is but thought it irrelevent to sprout off about just so the rest of the forum readers could see I new some "basic" economics. You see that brings the topic off track - Nice try though.

You said - " But understand that not all clubs receive the same resources, and this isn't through their own doing" - Could you put forward which recources that Sturt are recieving that other clubs are not. We dont have a stadium (we pay for our training times), we are in a small geographic area faced with multiple competitors, we dont have a canteen bringing in money. Any recources we have at our disposal were aquired from our own business savvy and relationship building - the deal negotiaited with the school for use of the weights room, the numerous Aussie Hoops programs we run to draw players from, the JDC who we have put in place with money that we are saving by not paying imports for our ABA team.

The recources we do have, we allocate efficiently and tactically and have many times offered to pass this knowledge on to other clubs (to which we are chasticised because those clubs cant see past their pride and envy).

You said - "But at least BSA should provide all clubs with a chance" - They do, they provide them (member clubs) with the opportunity to enter teams in all divisions, provide venues and officiating for their games to be held.

Reply #121830 | Report this post


economics  
Years ago

121617, yes some of your economic discussion confuses the issue although I do think your basic economic ideas are excellent. I also realise that the anonymous poster and Isaac initiated attempted to apply false economic theories to this discussion. BUt on the smoking excise impacting elasticity. Economic theory is not consistent with taxes impacting elasticity. It has no impact on elasticity because an excise shifts the demand curve down and to the left, not the angle of it.

After this. Im going to try to step out of this, because its probably as far as the discussion will go, but I will say:

My suggestion for zoning is not about giving "clubs" a handout. Its about effecting cultural change and growth in basketball. You say clubs make decisions, are lazy etc. etc. I see clubs as mere representations of a geographic area. You change the people, increase the numbers of people restructure the competition and clubs have a very different makeup (names and logos may change even) and it just happens that the regions that would be most effected are key potential, opportunistic markets for basketball.

121709, The questions you ask are about people in clubs and not the clubs. I would dispute that struggling clubs are not putting the same effort as strong clubs. I can easily provide evidence from my experience to prove otherwise. Clubs are merely an entity representing a geographic region. With the right controls in place we can establish a monopolistic competitive market (rather than an oligopoly) where all clubs are slightly differentiated but the competition is more even and each geographic region has the same opportunity to grow and succeed.

Thankyou, for the discussion.

Reply #121834 | Report this post


economics  
Years ago

Actually it would shift the supply curve up and to the left, not demand. Sorry, still no impact on demand elasticity though. See what happens when we get over complicated.

Reply #121835 | Report this post


larry  
Years ago

congratulations sturt on being if not now but in future the best club in the worst mainland state. remember sa was one or two and had too much nbl talent it could cater for. ironically most other clubs have exactly the same small mindedness.note the competition is outside of basketball and the real success is its contribution to society especially youth in which it is grossly under achieving.the answers are simple if the mind is open.condolences to sturt as the enviroment it helps create will reduce its real contribution.

Reply #121855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Larry,

"congratulations sturt on being if not now but in future the best club in the worst mainland state. "

- Nationals and Classics results would suggest otherwise. Didnt vic just catchup to SA? For population, isnt SA still doing well?

remember sa was one or two and had too much nbl talent it could cater for.

- Are there not more legitimate NBL/AIS/Div 1 College athletes from SA than ever before by a MILE!

Reply #121860 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Larry call home , your parents are worried.

Reply #121874 | Report this post




 

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