Interested
Years ago

Should Juniors be playing ABA?

I know this topic has come up previously but i have not read it, only heard about it. Do you think that Juniors should be playing ABA in the Winter season? What are the positives and negatives? I would like to hear of other juniors experiences.

Topic #11483 | Report this topic


bruce beck  
Years ago

NO JUNIORS SHOULD NOT PLAY ABA. WHY HAVE U16, U18 COMPETITION !! ??? IF THEY ARE GOING TO PLAY ABA SEEMS SILLY TO ME.

Reply #134030 | Report this post


Woody  
Years ago

why not if there good enough.

Reply #134042 | Report this post


kc4mvp  
Years ago

Idealy if the system is healthy.
The U16 and U18's should not be good enough to displace a Youth League Player let alone an ABA Player.

As many do seem toplay up, then its the depth of players wishing to compete at that higher level thats the problem.

We do very little to retian players in the system after U18's, we drop the two teared approach of Country and Metro state teams.
So we have halved the involvement there. If the players stayed involved only 1 or 2 would be playing ABA.

Reply #134055 | Report this post


say what ?  
Years ago

yes there is no room in the system after u18s - so there is a tendancy to direct players out of the system.

there seems to be little directive to move older juniors into senior grades.

if they are good enough - u16/18/20 can play aba - as long as they have the life balance!

Reply #134057 | Report this post


booga  
Years ago

maybe past central coaches could post on this subject as they always have under 16's girls getting minutes at aba level. they could give an insite as to why and how come

Reply #134060 | Report this post


Johnny Sack  
Years ago

Sam Mac played at 15-16 and had a significant impact.. so if the ability is there why not???

Reply #134061 | Report this post


Junior  
Years ago

Players that go to the AIS are playing senior basketball from the age of 15. And for the girls that means WNBL. So why should they not play ABA?

Reply #134067 | Report this post


bozza  
Years ago

My 2 cents --- Limit the number of Juniors to 1 or two for ABA games - It is a great experience playing at a senior level, but when half or more the team are juniors I believe it devalues the competition, and pushes out the senior players.

Reply #134070 | Report this post


wateva  
Years ago

If a junior player is the better player you can't just say nah you're too young. If they have the skills/ability to play you only hurt their development by limiting their access to higher level competitions.

Reply #134078 | Report this post


realist  
Years ago

Developmentally there is no harm in giving junior players with talent and potential a few minutes in an ABA game. It gives juniors the encouragement and drive to want to improve their skills and game. Talent & maturity doesn't necessarily equate with age.

I'm not a past coach, but as for Centrals, they didn't have the numbers to not consider playing 1 or 2 juniors. From my understanding these were juniors that consistently trained as good as, or better in some cases, than senior players. If a junior demonstrates commitment, talent and potential for development, I'm all for giving them experience in the ABA comp.

Reply #134082 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

Would you give under 14s a run in under 18s then to help their development.
(You can see i am NOT in favour of it)

Reply #134087 | Report this post


GloryRoad  
Years ago

Bruce,
I think it has be different for girls and boys.

As for the Centrals situation playing poorly prepared U16 girls at ABL level is not good for the development of the game or the player involved.

Reply #134090 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Bruce,

Don't see how they correlate.

If an U14 player played U18's, They would be ineligible to play with their U14 side for that round of games.

However if an U18 played ABA they can still play in their own age group. ie Best of both worlds.

So NO, leting an U14 play U18's would not help their development because it would not allow them to play in U14's.

It would be good if you understood the rules before saying something that is not very bright.

Reply #134093 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

Maybe I am NOT very bright.
BUT, I would apply the same rule. That if U18 played ABA they would NOT be able to go back down and play U18.

Reply #134094 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

But you are not in charge!

The reason you cannot play both junior games is becasue they are on the same night.

And why would you stop people from playing basketball anyway?

Again, maybe you should think before you comment!

Reply #134098 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

I AM thinking about a SENIOR player whose place is taken by an under18.

Reply #134099 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Bruce,

Did you get dropped for a junior becasue some 16 year old is better than you?

Otherwise that senior players needs to work harder on their game.

And this will not stop them from playing. They will just go down 1 division. ie ABA down to reserves, or div 2 down to div 3.

And if the junior is better than them, they need to work out that they just aren't good enough and go and train harder.

Keep bringing up lame excuses!

Reply #134103 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

There IS some merit in what you are saying.

I DID get LESS court time for an u18 of about the same ability as me.

Reply #134104 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

Actually, a few of us senior players then left that club as they were playing juniors of about the same ability as us .

So we went where we could get more court time.

Reply #134110 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Bruce,

Maybe you only thought that you had the same amount of talent.

Reply #134111 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

It is up to the club then.
They lost some good players over it.
Did not matter to me i played about 3000 games

Reply #134112 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Bruce,

Again in your opinion, obviously not in the opinion of the coach and club.

"Everybody disagree's with me, they are all wrong." words of a crazy person.

Reply #134113 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

Yeah, you are right the club makes that decision.
A LOT of good senior players have left over it.
It made NO difference to me. It was THEIR decision.

Reply #134116 | Report this post


Fill Smythe  
Years ago

I see alarming similarities between some of these posts, and primary schools "you can't have kids playing competitive sports because the ones who don't do so well will get a complex about it" attitude. Life is competitive, so if a person is good enough to do something, it shouldn't matter if they are 16 or 86.

Reply #134135 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Bruse,

Sure your not bitter. (insert sarcasm here) In fact, you are not bitter enough to come on a website and complain about having your spot taken by a junior becasue they are beter than you and you can't accept it.

Wait, run that again!

Reply #134137 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

Why can't the clubs wait one year for the juniors to become seniors. Why do they have to run them in ABA.
For the sake of waiting a year they loose good players that go to other clubs and give the new club twenty years or more good service as a player coach admin etc.

Reply #134140 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

Obviously so that they can win more games!

If they are already better than those players in front of them what is the point of waiting?

People like you are only going to move the folowing year becasue you can't accpet you aren't good enough.

Why not just accept you are not u to standard and build a bridge!

Reply #134153 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

You are assuming that the junior was a star player and i was no good.

It is NOT only about me.

I am talking about a good quality senior player and an up and coming junior not quite as good as the senior, but with potential. WHO DO YOU PLAY ?????

Reply #134161 | Report this post


Maybe tell us exactly who you are and the club involved and the person who took your place...that would make this a whole lot easier to debate. At the moment, its pretty hard to get the whole picture.

Generally, if you are good enough, you will play. Simple, doesn't matter what age.

As much as people like to call it deveolpment, in the end I have never met a coach that does not like to win and therefore have never met anyone that coches at senior level who does not play the players that he thinks will give the team the most chance of winning. So, although people might think that the coach is playing a junior to further his/her deveolpment, it is more likely the case that the coach actually thinks that the junior will give the team more chance of winning. Now, sometimes the coaches get it wrong, which makes it look even more like the junior was played for the experience, when actually thats not the case.

The only way i can see a coach playing a junior who is not quite up to the standard as the seniors playing, but still plays ahead of the senior is if that teams season is shot and they can't make the finals and the coach has lost faith in the current playing group not just to succeed this year but in years to come and so, like Richmond in the AFL have done, decide to go for a youth policy. Which I suggest maybe Southern Tigers mens ABL coach might want to think of doing now! Seriously, how bad are they! At first I thought that they were just not jelling, but I have come to the conclusion that they just are not any good. I saw them get flogged by th eagles on the weekend and it wasn't because they didn't try, or they got a bad deal from the refs or because they had a bad night or anything other than they just didn't have anywhere near the talent. Clark, Goodenough, Bowley, both Hodges, Francheseanes...here are 6 of their top 9 players who would not play if they were on one of the top 3 sides playing lists. I'm not talking wouldn't play much...I mean would not play at all! Unfortunately their younger players are pretty crap as well. Good luck with this group Heath...your going to need it!

Reply #134164 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Absolutely, kids should be allowed to play up. If they're physically ready, mature and have the skillz to pay the billz, then sure - play them in the seniors.

As for comments about U14s playing U18s - if the junior is THAT good, then heck yeah, play up. Give up playing a lower/junior grade you're dominating, and start testing your abilities against superior talent.

And for those who were wondering, my 1-year old twins are ready to start U16s. They're almost big enough already. Any takers? ;-)

Reply #134176 | Report this post


jimmy de bas  
Years ago

You good, you play, you have no idea mate.

Reply #134186 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

SO really, how many juniors actually play ABA.
i only know of 3 players not including Woodvilles Women's team, who consist mainly of juniors with the odd senior player.

Reply #134196 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

Trust me - i have studied the primary school issue of competitive sport vs non-competitive sport. The school issue is different from the idea of kids playing ABA for a variety of reasons - one of which is the government's which to have as many kids as possible playing sport from an early age, in a noble attempt to reduce childhood obesity (that is a whole nother can of Jihad)

Central ABA has a long history of star players having begun playing ABA while eligible to play U16, 18, etc.

Different clubs have had different policies in the past. And no doubt some clubs have lost players to different clubs with different policies.

The decision to allow an U18 or younger player to play ABA should rest on the ABA coach, and the players parents.

Just as teacher owes a "duty of care" to student's under the teacher's supervision, a coach does need to weigh up the best interests of the player and the club.

The players parents should make an informed decision about letting their child play ABA - generally, the parents know their child best.

I don't see any problem with it provided things are talked over thoroughly and pressure isn't applied by the club.

I do believe though, that U14's playing U18's isn't something tha should be encouraged, unless teh child is mentally mature enough to cope. (sledging, physicality issues).

That's my 2 cents!

Reply #134198 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

yes, i agree it does rest on the coach, but i think that it is rather the player's decision if offered the chance to play.

Most juniors even if chosen to play do not get large amounts of court time. Is there any exceptions in any teams.

Reply #134202 | Report this post


interested  
Years ago

What would be the pros and cons... Can anyone speak from experience? Do injuries become more chronic at an earlier age because of more intense training when younger? Do players tire of basketball quicker because they reached a high level earlier in life? What about school work being affected? OR the experience of playing ABA made them physically and mentally stronger in age group leading to a better player in a state team.

Reply #134207 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

interested,

YES

YES

YES

YES


----=----------------------
OR =

NO.

Reply #134264 | Report this post


WhoKnows  
Years ago

Surely this has to be the decision of the player involved and the parents. Some players are capable of doing it, some are not. Girls develop faster than boys some boys may develop faster.

Most players at this age are smart enough to say no, to playing ABL.

Reply #134268 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Surely but wouldn't the players take the opportunities when and if it arises?

Reply #134372 | Report this post


bruce beck  
Years ago

I had to play one (1) game ABA
as a junior, now I am all bitter and twisted.

Reply #134437 | Report this post


George  
Years ago

Most juniors don't play , they warm the bench. It's called getting experience but lots have other names for it.
That said, as in most sports the juniors have the benefit of evolving skills and training and become better players than the crop ahead of them in a general sense.
There are more reasons for juniors not to play than play especially if they are involved in SASI etc and we've had this over training thing enough times not to go on with it.

Reply #134454 | Report this post


what the???  
Years ago

George,

Some people still think that seniors is bad for you. Others like Cayla Francis seem to have done OK with it.

Maybe it's just those people who are not good enough and don't make the next level quit becasue of disappointment rather than over training?

Reply #134458 | Report this post


lil monkey  
Years ago

'maybe past central coaches could post on this subject as they always have under 16's girls getting minutes at aba level. they could give an insite as to why and how come'
as mentioned in another post, its because the team never had enough players. If they had senior players willing to come over and support the club, then the amount of juniours playing would be reduced. Centrals can only work with what they have, until something changes. Hence the reason why they have no womens ABA team this season.

Reply #134463 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Most junoirs do warm the bench so why do coaches always say they are putting them in the team for experience, when surely there not getting any. i only no 2 under 18 players who have got good court time playing in there aba teams,so why do the other juniors get asked?

Reply #134524 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

#134524 - Team bonding, experience in EXPECTATIONS, COMMITMENT LEVEL, MORE CONSISTENTLY INTENSE TRAINING, are a few benefits of being an ABA benchwarming junior.

Reply #134548 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Defenitly, those thing are very important. However, do you really think most under 18 players are able to cope with it, seeing as only the best of the grade are there. thus meaning that they are likely to be in state and sasi, cutting in and putting more demands on physically, mentally andmore importanty time when at school.

I also only know 2 players. one of which is a first year and got significant time in the first round s of matches. The other is a very good player and deserves to be in the team. I know of a few others who just sit on the bench and possibly get a few minutes in matches which are a bit one-sided.

Reply #134568 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The first year you are talking about, is that the one from norwood or Forestville?

Reply #134572 | Report this post


thesoupnazi  
Years ago

Have you ever wondered why the U 21 women's comp is dying? Why fewer and fewer girls play basketball after 18's?
Some tell us it's because they are all chasing boys, doing year 12, starting uni, following other career paths etc but I think otherwise.
In a subjective, highly political arena such as basketball, the pecking order, sound or otherwise is well established by the U18's.
Talented girls, who have gone unrecognised or are overlooked for a multitude of reasons as well as the SASI crew who know their AIS spot is gone, ask the question, 'is it worth it anymore?'
Many come to the conclusion that a better life exists outside the endless trainings in an endless basketball season and move on.
Now while some, if not most say good riddance, is it?
Basketball can only get stronger if the comp has a steady influx of better players playing in all grades.
Whilst men genuinely believe the game is men's business and devalue the women's comp in words and spirit so the exodus will continue. A strong vibrant women's ABA comp is a sign of health, a weak comp a sign of cancer.
So the answer to juniors playng in the ABA should be, absolutely!
We should be doing everything we can to keep young women in basketball and making sure the path is open to all.
Better and more opportunities need to be opened up for them.
SASI should be playing a 16 and an 18 team in the stupidest of all seasons, 'the district summer' rotating all the players in the squad through it. Don't tell me how difficult it would be find ways of making happen.
After all, we've all been told often enough summer's a time to try out players in Div 1 for the real season?
For kids who are borderline players at Div one/elte level , allow them to form an 'all stars' multi club team to play ABA when ever there's an uneven draw for a season such as exists now.But then club's would have to cooperate wouldn't they?
There are dozens of things we could examine to ensure the drain of players is minimised and I hope some brighter sparks out there put some ideas in the mix.
To the critics of this post who devalue its intent and propositions with no suggestions for improvements or belief improvements need to be made - no soup for you!

Reply #134622 | Report this post


ADunkCalledUrMoma  
Years ago

Soup Nazi, Some great ideas there. Almost worth a thread on its own.

Reply #134626 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#134572

I was refering to the First year at Norwood.

Reply #134697 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i have noticed that the Norwood U18's first yr had been getting alot of time. Did she deserve the time?

Reply #134777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Her Mum's a good cook........

Reply #134788 | Report this post




 

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