Quagmire
Years ago

Review of Game 6 - Kings V Lakers

Article on ESPN from a credible source, a guy that studied the Kings Lakers game in 02....

"Yes, at a glance you can see the Lakers got some advantage from the calls down the stretch, but if Bavetta was really trying to rig the game, would he have called a tie up jump ball at the 3:26 mark (and subsequently had a bad toss that gave the ball to the Kings) with the Kings ahead by two when he could have called a foul on Divac? Would he have called the foul on Fisher at 1:27 that helped bring the Kings back within a point with plenty of time left? Would he have called the blocking foul on Fox with 0:20 when an offensive foul would have basically sealed the game? Doubtful.

Bernhardt made no foul call on Christie's block of Kobe with the game tied at 3:56, gave Bibby a bailout call with the shot clock winding down at 2:34 with the game tied, and didn't call Webber for a foul on Shaq's basket at 0:52 which could have fouled out C-Webb and given the Lakers a look at a four point lead.

Delaney wasn't very active in the waning minutes, with one no call where Bibby looked for a foul at the 0:43 mark. The other notable non-call which I rated an "all refs" situation was on the inbounds at 0:12 where Kobe knocked Bibby to the floor with an elbow to the face, but Bibby was also grabbing Kobe at the time it happened so both were really guilty of infractions to some extent. Still an offensive foul on Kobe there could have changed the outcome!

As a whole, these plays suggest to me the refs were calling the game honestly, if perhaps not well.

Now Bernhardt did have the arguable turning point call of the game as it turns out at the 3:06 mark when Webber moved into the paint and made a basket only to have the shot wiped out with an offensive foul call. At first I was in agreement with Bill Walton that this was a "terrible call" but having watched the play over ten times in slow motion I changed it from 'dubious' to 'maybe' in my grading since it's one of those plays where I believe a case could be made for a defensive foul, an offensive foul, or even a dual fault let them play no call. If pressed I'd still rate it a Horry foul which would have given a basket and the and one shot to Webber and the Kings a possible four or five point lead. Yet there is a fair amount of left arm push off from Webber and Bernhardt was right on top of the play with a good angle.

This gets to the heart of the matter to me: despite the NBA's official claim that 95% of calls are correct over a season, there are just too many plays that are far from being clear cut wrong/right and many that fall into a gray area where even watching a play many times in slow motion you can make a case for different verdicts. The block/charge/no call situation is also about the worst of these in that it's such a snap judgement with significant effect."

Full article-
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33-2/A-Fine-Analysis-of-the-Referees--Performance-in-Game-6-of-the-2002-NBA-Western-Conference-Finals.html


Mate, i know you wanna beleive, i know it is big industry, but i just think NBA is a tough game to ref, watch a replay of most games and you could easily argue 50% of the calls.

Do stars get better treatment- oh hell yeah. But it doesn't run as deep as you think. It would just be too risky for people like Stern who would be gambling a hell of a lot on dubious people...


Topic #16334 | Report this topic


TR  
Years ago

Was there any reason for the call-out of dcanwade??? Why not just change the title to "Review of Game 6 - Kings V Lakers" and not make it personal.

There are a few people here that believe there was something suss with that game 6.

People question quarter 4 of this game and how the Lakers can get to the line 27 times in 12 minutes. Teams don't get to the line 27 times in a game let alone a quarter.

End of the day it still doesn't prove that it was or wasn't rigged. That is a secret Dr Evil aka Stern will take to the grave.

Reply #192409 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

YOU have to realize the guy works for ESPN and the article is in ESPN who has paid NBA 100s of millions of dollars to televise the rights. YOU think its going to be an objective view ??? That's like the NBA investigating their own fix when they are in on it .. Yeah their really admit anything !!!

It's called vested interest .. protecting your investment .. ever heard of that !!!???

Now give me someone who is independent and NOT have vested interest in the NBA before quoting articles writen by people with vested interest. If we can learn anything from the past is that the VICTORS or the powerful can always rewrite HISTORY !!!
------------------------------

If it's this difficult to determine whether a game is rigged or not, doesn't that show that some kind of referee/rule reform is necessary? If there are that many rules that are in the gray area, then they need to be clarified and enforced strictly regardless of the star power the players who commit or receive the fouls have. I don't think anyone would argue that some players get more fouls called in their favor due to their status.

I think that the games aren't necessarily rigged for one team or another, but the referees calling the game are clearly incompetent. Add in rules that allow for fuzzy interpretations as well as favoritism towards certain superstar players, and you have a case where nobody really knows what a foul is anymore. This is where we are today.

Reply #192410 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

maybe you should "investigate" this author of the article and see how much the ESPN cronies of Stern paid this guy. maybe he got some shoes or the money they want to get off Donaughy ....

And you believe this then I guess you are gullible enough to believe anything you read in the newspapers ..i think the proof is in your own eyes ..watch that game yourself and the stats and what 80% of Americans said about the game .. one, Nader demanding an ivestgation which Stern did his usual smirk and brush off

Reply #192411 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

ESPN is blinded as bandwangon boston fans. NBA is entertainment not basketball anymore. So all the analysist dimissing the scandal are just in denial. Laker/Celtic final was setup,Cleveland in the finals was setup horribly, Miami winning the championship was obvious fixed, Chicago gettting number 1 pick (Rose is from chicago and Bulls have a big market in the NBA top 5) Gasol/KG going to their so-called teams. It is all set up people

Reply #192416 | Report this post


Quagmire  
Years ago

I'm just saying- basketball is a tough game to ref.

If the NBA is so rigged and influenced by a stern hand, then why are we still going on about this one game? Why aren't there a glut of games that show favouritism?

I'm just not totally convinced.

I know its an ESPN article but the fact remains it present a good arguement that perhaps the game wasn't rigged, just poorley ref'ed.

Reply #192417 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

there is a glut of games that show favourtism ... look at Bulls Dream Run .. not that they weren't good but hey it doesn't hurt to have the most popular guy ever on your team .. many lakers games ... sac v laker series, portland v lakers series, lebron buny hops, Shaq getting away with charges all these years ... you can't tell us D'Phantom Calls" wAde shooting more then the whole Dallas team wasn't favourtism !! ... it happens more regular in the playoff when the games therefore profit margin matter ... and yeah we care because we want to simply see the best players play in a fair competion which is what sport should be about ... unfortunately like everything else it ends up being about the $$$$$$$

Reply #192420 | Report this post


Quagmire  
Years ago

Dude its no good just saying "it was set up"

Miami one coz the mavs couldn't keep infront of D-wade. He got a ton o calls but watch the guy play, he heads straight for contact, doesn't budge an inch and gets hammered. Dallas had no D inside.

Lakers Celts wasn't set up. They earned their spots and its not cool to smear them.

Cleveland was a top defensive squad with a player who could get hot and win a game off his back. No set up there, did they set up the eventual sweep of their new superstar too? Too the boring spurs no less!!
So much for making heros of players.

Chicago or the knicks? Stern would of picked the Knicks not chicago. Draft ain't rigged dude.

Gasol and KG were moved from their teams for the same reasons, they didn't get it done so both teams looked to move on. Memphis just wanted stars to market hence the new Gay Mayo era, and wolves are collecting talent.

None of your set ups are actual set ups man. Remove your emotion and you will see it clear.

Reply #192422 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

how convenient .. Lakers get top players .. Celtics top player .. the 2 most storied franchises in NBA meet in the finals setting up a rivlary to last the next few years and a slew of commericals . Bulls get top pick ... and nobody thinks that's not a little suss !!!?? If the Celtics could turn a franchise around from nothing to best overnight .. why does that ever happen to Milwaukee or Seatlle or Indiana!!?? ...

Reply #192426 | Report this post


Quagmire  
Years ago

I think your beef may be better directed at the owners of some of these clubs. Thats who i'm pissed at. A lot of them are putting together teams with no chance of winning but they keep under the cap and tell their fans they have a plan...Their eyes are on the dollars.

Look at Houston. They will never win with Ming. He plays 20 good minutes and 10 exhausted minutes every game. They did better without him and T-mac is wasted.

Why keep him?

Coz your selling a billion Ming jerseys in china.

Memphis too, they cut away Gasol for cookies coz they couldn't market him, and now play Gay and Mayo who you bet they can get people to watch. They will never win though.

Owners mate- their the ones fans should be dark at. Just look at the sonics debarcle.

Reply #192433 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

you don't think it's not a little suss ?? they can't be all bad owners ..why big market teams seem to get the calls and big name players when it matters ?? ... ... just wait until LeBron jumps to teh Knicks in the next few years ...setting up a Bulls-Knick rivalry of the 90s .. wait and see the plans are already in place. its so obvious but people don't open their eyes ...

Reply #192435 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

and NO I can't blame the owners ..for the Kings-Lakers debacle .. except for the fact the owners are cowards not standing up to Sterns .. well as long as $$$ comes in ..and NO certainly can't blame Cuban for Wade getting all those phantom calls essentaily making Wade unstoppable !!

Reply #192436 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

You're an idiot dcanwade! Quagmire clearly proved your outrageous "Set ups" are clearly wrong. Furthermore, he proved clear evidence from the ESPN article in which you can go view the video footage for your self! But all you could come up with was they are doing it due to vested interest. Vested interest or whatever go to the video tape and see what they have pointed out, as it clearly shows that the poor calls went both ways and other decisions could have been a 50/50 call. You are very delusional and are clutching at straws trying to prove your very bogus laughable NBA conspiracy theory! Do you still believe Elvis and Tupac are still alive also?

Reply #192438 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

yes. i HAVE SEEN THE FOOTAGE. HAVE YOU ??? watch ut and tell us again its on the level .. and not talking about 1 or 2 examples .. I can point out one or 2 examples to and make a case of it .. but the whole damn game !!! DO IT ... and then give me the input after watching until then be quite son

Reply #192443 | Report this post


B Fresh  
Years ago

It was Stern from the grassy knoll with the 'magic bullet'!

Reply #192448 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

Yeah and it was the Jews who made up the Holocaust in order to get sympathy for an Israeli state ...and global warming is all made up .. it's people who refuse to look who are ignorant

Reply #192451 | Report this post


dcanwade  
Years ago

with people like you ... WE would still be believeing the world is flat ... yeah they all thought the world was flat for centuries except for the persecuted few . and ridicled those with different truthful views
Continue to live in your comfort zone.

Reply #192454 | Report this post


Quagmire  
Years ago

Holy crap- for a second there you nearly over-reacted...

Reply #192456 | Report this post


\  
Years ago

Im just gonna put this out there...
David Stern is a member of the secret society Order of the Bull's Blood.

I don't have a lot of information about it but if its anything like freemasonry or the Skull and Bones then it gives me good enough reason to believe the NBA is a fairy tale hoax as a means of Mr Stern becoming greedily reach at the expense of manipulating our mindset with entertainment.

Anyone who hasn't researched secret societies before and thinks that this is a stupid statement is understandable but do the research and find out fpr yourself.

Reply #192460 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

This must be the script for
National Treasure 3 : The Umpire Chronicles..

Reply #192472 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

If that would star Nicolas Cage, discussion of it is banned - no talk about Nicolas Cage or Something For Kate on here!

Reply #192480 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

lol, No would have to have David Stern as the lead actor, or it wouldn't be allowed..


or would it?

Reply #192481 | Report this post


Quagmire  
Years ago

I smell a Rick Fox cameo....

Or Kareem as a pilot...

Reply #192482 | Report this post


Olaf  
Years ago

I always thought Stern was part of "The Pentavarite" with Colonel Sanders and his wee beady little eyes. Oh you're going to buy my chicken.

Reply #192487 | Report this post


playa  
Years ago

just continue to watch the NBA .. is as good as any movie .. better scripted as well. Some of the guys can earn academy awards for d flops and bronbron can shake and dance to the rim !! aaaahhhhhhh !!!! as he jam on a stunned white guy !!!

Reply #192493 | Report this post




 

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