Jack Toft
Years ago

State Champs - Was it worth all the hype?

Ok Poindexters,
The 2010 State Champs have been run and won, and despite some trash talk before the champs, seems the carnival pretty well went according to script.

I realise that a review in on at the moment, so what do people think. Was it worth the hype?

Topic #22983 | Report this topic

Wam Soosnam  
Years ago

It is a poorly timed tournament, that has become nothing more than a revenue raiser for BSA.

I think Sturt do a great job winning in May. They are a great club. But for me, I would like to know the best team at the end of the year, in a tournament format. It is ridiculous that teams are expected to peak at the end of the first summer round, so that they can get the right seed for the winter champs. It compromises all learning principles, that you would assess learning, in about the first 25 % of the curriculum/program.
Imagine doing year 12 exams in may?

Either get rid of the whole thing, which no-one would miss, or place it at the end of the season where it means something.

As for the farce of seedings, I could come up with a better system in 10 minutes of thought.
The NCAA ranks a whole country with a committee, why cant we get a shitty town like Adelaide right?
Because of parochial bullshit.

Please Change this waste of time and effort!!!!
Adelaide Basketball Parents

Reply #277445 | Report this post

hanging round  
Years ago

Please change your name from someone who commands respect to your own name or 'post name' Tool!
This carnival does not involve Sam, so don't denigrate her while she is overseas on a break

Reply #277448 | Report this post

filthy mexican  
Years ago

I am pretty sure no one actually thought Wam Soosnam is in any way associated to Sam. Just like people dont actually think you are physically hanging while surfing the net and using the alias Hanging round

Reply #277449 | Report this post

Years ago

October long weekend would be ideal time to run it, no footy, probably not a good idea playing three under twenty games in one day but good weekend had by our team, can we get the Victorian regs that were at m/vale back here permanantly too please!!

Reply #277451 | Report this post

The Phantom  
Years ago

Why not use the summer season as a state champ season? Everyone gets to play everyone once then finals? The winner is the state champs better then pool a & b where everyone don't get to play all teams.

Reply #277452 | Report this post

Pick me  
Years ago

How can accurate selection for classics occur if not held this time of year?

Reply #277453 | Report this post

Ceres 28  
Years ago

Can't do it in October, cause 14 Nationals is then.

Surely the State Champs and season champs define different things.

1/ who is best at a carnival.

2/ who develops best over a season.

Both equally important things although different.

I feel that if Sturt didnt dominate State Champs people would like it more.

Reply #277455 | Report this post

Boys State

Sturt 23 points.
Forestville 9 points
Norwood 9 points
Eastern 4 points
South 4 points
Southern 4 points
Woodville 2 points

Girls State

Forestville 14 points
Sturt 13 points
Norwood 6 points
Southern 6 points
Eastern 5 points
North 5 points
South 4 points
West 2 points

Overall State (Trevor Martin Champion Club award)

Sturt 36 points
Forestville 23 points
Norwood 15 points
Southern 10 points
Eastern 9 points
South 8 points
North 5 points
Woodville 2 points
West 2 points

Reserve Boys

Sturt 16
Forestville 10
Magic 8
Torrens Valley 8
Norwood 2
South 2
West 2
Norwood 2
South 2
Eastern 1
North 1

Reserve Girls

Sturt 18
Forestville 10
Norwood 7
North 5
Magic 5
Southern 4
South 3
Centrals 2
Eastern 1

Overall Reserve Champion Club

Sturt 34
Forestville 20
Magic 13
Norwood 9
Torrens Valley 8
North 6
Southern 5
South 5
West 2
Eastern 2
Centrals 2

Reply #277458 | Report this post

Pick me  
Years ago

Upsets or surprises at any levels ?

Reply #277459 | Report this post

Years ago

HR - "Wam Soosnam" has been posting under that name for a fair while now. As has been said, I don't think anyone would actually think it was Sam. On top of that, while they're critical here, that criticism isn't offered in an offensive way.

Reply #277461 | Report this post

Justt wondering if anyone has any theories as to why clubs based South of the city are doing so much better than clubs based North of the city?

Reply #277471 | Report this post

hanging round  
Years ago

My apologies- tiring weekend

Reply #277473 | Report this post

Years ago

Sturt really must have been desperate for state champs success.
When they fly Nicole Seekamp back from AIS for under 21 State and then do not even make the grand final of the premier junior title.
Mesecke must be fuming given he was the coach.

Reply #277474 | Report this post

Years ago

No its not really worth it, as a parent it is exhausting and ends up costing a fortune. It certainly is a BSA fundraiser as there would much better ways to select teams to go to the classics. I am part of the under 18 group and the final outcome does not deplict the best team over all but the best team on the day after so many games on the weekend and how there schedule has worked out.

Also i have never been involved in a state champs where so many people have been asked to leave stadiums, i think the umpires have become a little precious however i do think that the Adelaide umpires need to look at how the Vic umpires handle themselves.

Reply #277476 | Report this post

Years ago

FACILITIES AND ACCESS have huge bearing on success - to the west too many clubs - too the north no vccordinate dev happening. like t or not eagles and sturt are milesin front both on and off court -

Reply #277478 | Report this post

Years ago

277476, are you one of those abusive North Adelaide parents from the U18 Men??

Reply #277481 | Report this post

Years ago

no way am i a North parent, would never let my child play in that team.

Reply #277484 | Report this post

Years ago

If we need State Champs, run it on the Adelaide Cup weekend in March. Summer season should start the week before and Winter season should start the week after.

This would help even the workload on players. The Easter/TI camp/State Champs/Classics peroid is a nightmare for players with niggling injuries - the four tournaments are equivalent to another Winter season.

Classics entry could either be determined by state champs or by the first completed round in Winter season.

Reply #277485 | Report this post

Dirty Sturty  
Years ago


If people still can't see that having a full time coaching person isn't the main force behind success then they are crazy.

Forestville and Sturt are the only clubs doing that and are getting success. Wow, thats strange. Good on Norwood for following suit and expect them to get better over the next few years,

And secondly, Sturt have been bringing back their AIS kids for years. I think I remember people trying to stop Jacob Holmes or Laura Summerton from playing years ago cause they weren't playing in regular season.

Why should sturt, or any club that is, do what it takes to gelp these players, then not have them play for their club?

Again, doesn't that just tell all the good kids from other club that if you want to be given opportunities, come to Sturt? That you will get a weekend back with you r family and friends. And that they wont forget you when you have other opportunities. And those kids still back playing in SA get to play with their mate.

I wonder when 5 top level kids move to Sturt again at the end of the season, whether you will all complain about it again without working out why a kids from your clubs has moved because of your kind of atitiude.

And I'm sure Mesecke is probably feeling pretty good about himslef this morning considering they won 5 out of 6 titles and only lost the other by 1 point. Unless that is he has a bit of a hangover.

Reply #277487 | Report this post

It's obvious  
Years ago

Dirty Sturty
The only sensible coment in this thread, Sturt has had a fulltime CD for years, Forestville started a year or so ago, now Norwood.
The facts and results demonstrate this beyond any doubt. I would suggest this is the challenge for the rest of the clubs!
I would suggest the clubs without full time CD are subject to the effort of volonteers, hense the cycle theory. Sturt seem to have broken the cycle.
Is Mescke that good, or is it the fact that he is working on the program as a full time position.

As for the rest of your up your arse Sturt shit

Reply #277489 | Report this post

Years ago

head in sand and pat on the back sturt crap. sturt have a bar and canteen and revenue to employ as does forestville. BSA leg ups for them.

Reply #277491 | Report this post

Years ago

Does the fact that clubs appoint a fulltime CD mean that the club is better off on that basis because some of the clubs donig this seem to attract people that just couldnt get a real or descent job. They take on these low paying roles.

I'm not casting this opinion over all the fulltime CDs either.

The idea of employing a full time CD is great just make sure you offer the right money. I don't know anyone with the skillsets required would take it on for under $80K per yr.

Reply #277493 | Report this post

Dirty Sturty  
Years ago

SO if Sturt have borken the cycle.

And you've got a kid with ambission.

Why would you not bring them to sturt?

Im happy cause it would make my kids team better. Give them more opportunities to go to classics. Make them train harder for their spot. Win/win as far as I'm concerned.

Reply #277495 | Report this post

Years ago

anon #277491

Sturt didn't have a bar, canteen or a stadium for over 18 month when CLG burn't down and they still employed a part time DO

Then when Pas was closed down for 9 month for the floor. Sturt stil employed a full time DO.

Sturt runs Aussie Hoops, City South, does their own uniforms etc. They have created new revenue streams to pay for the position as well as not wasting money in their senior program. It's not every been funded by the bar or canteen.

But other clubs will continue to throw money at their seniors hoping senior success will bring the kids flooding back in. Meanwhile, sturt will keep getting bigger and better.

Reply #277496 | Report this post

The Banker  
Years ago

Im gonna put it put there overall it was a great weekend for BSA and all clubs.

I was thoroughly impressed with the "NEW" Morphett Vale Stadium seeing as this weekend was the first trip ive made down south road all year.

Saw lots of great junior basketball with some really exciting games.

and Congratulations to Sturt for Winning even tho i hate the club. Forestville will beat you next year!

As far as clubs having full time coaching/developement officer, these are always going to be ahead of the pack until the find other ways to boost revenue. And having a good ABL team will never get you anywhere in the juniors.

Reply #277499 | Report this post

Years ago

sturt are not bigger or better simply louder and brasher. I agree you have worked smarter in some areas and well done but you have had lots of help . Play on the same field as everyone else and stop recruiting every junior from any club that shows promise, stop opposing zones and you might find everyone else passes you.

Reply #277501 | Report this post

Years ago

exactly - if zones were inforced then i think it would be a very different story. If a kid is going to make it they will make no matter what club they are from i think that speaks for itself. If BSA doesnt bring in zones then why not let Sturt just take over it all.

Reply #277504 | Report this post

Years ago

Is that good for sa basketball that for Sturt to get bigger and stronger.

For the growth of basketball in SA you need all clubs to to be competitive.

So at statechamps presentation it would be far better to have a good spread of all clubs not just sturt and forestville.

Other wise in 5 years or, so how many clubs will the be.

BSA should set up zones assoicated with each club so the good players are spread across all clubs.

Why do you think the AFL has a national draft and SANFL has zones. To keep the competition even and avoid what is happening to junior basketball in sa

As coaches give up their time and noone wants to coach a team that gets beaten by 50 - 60 points each weak.

Reply #277506 | Report this post

Years ago

Zoning in Junior football includes transfer fees. If a player wishes to move the player/the club needs to pay $1000s in transfer fees. Surely some small monetary amount would help players really consider their situation. Do they move to take the easy way out and play a weekend of basketball at Melbourne Classics at the expense of their longer term sporting development OR are they a prospect to excel in the sport at the next level and being held back by their current club. If it's the latter then they would be prepared to pay a few hundred bucks to transfer.

Reply #277507 | Report this post

Years ago

If a kid is going to make it they will make no matter what club they are from i think that speaks for itself.
I don't think that's true at all. Often a player or academic could pinpoint a particular coach or teacher as being a critical part of their improvement. Without real competition, those people may not be appropriately supported and driven.
If BSA doesnt bring in zones then why not let Sturt just take over it all.
False dichotomy.

Do you understand the arguments against zoning? A serious one being that it discourages improvement through competition. Without competition, there might not necessarily be the same development officers or support and systems for coaches.

Reply #277508 | Report this post

Years ago

Before I voice my concern with zoning, I have to ask, due to my lack of knowledge, do all the Junior coaches need some sort of accreditation to coach the kids? Or can it just be anyone who wants to commit the time?

The above questions lead to my concern. For, if a really talented young person with masses of untapped potential, was "zoned" to a club with maybe not as good coaching as other clubs had, would that be a huge mistake, not letting him get the coaching he needs to untap that potential?

This is my only concern with the zoning theory, because if it was my son/daughter, i would want him/her to be coached by the best option available, all the time, not just anyone. Maybe BSA/BA could organize a Coaching & Development Officer for each club to oversee this possible problem?

As i said earlier, I don't know what qualifications you need to be a Junior coach, so don't jump down my throat if it seems I'm backing Sturt or Forrestville as I have no affiliation with either....I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Reply #277509 | Report this post

Jack Toft  
Years ago

Unfortunately, we have digressed a little, but we constantly seem to get onto zoning. Perhaps, a new thread is needed.

My personal thoughts:

* Vic Umpires: Bloody good idea and bloody good. Their umpiring showed how poor ours is. We could learn from them.
* Stadiums: Debacle. Having to travel across the city was a pain. How about BSA copy SAC and base a comp at a stadium, ie U12 boys at Port, U12 girls at Hillcrest etc. Then, rotate the stadiums year by year. Cuts out all the bulls%$t of home games etc. As far as I am concerned, all clubs must host some part of the "state champs"

Eg, let's pick on Mavs. 15 teams, 4 minor round games per team means 60 games. Therefore, they need to host 30 games at their home stadium.

* Finals: All finals should be played at a neutral stadium like the Dome.

Reply #277511 | Report this post

Years ago

Yes, introduce zones and the ranking of the clubs would be - unchanged. The successful clubs will do better at development within their zone, development of existing players, recruitment within allowable exemptions and policing the zone infringements of other clubs.

Oh, coaching directors would also have huge houses because there would be 200 kids registered at that address.

Don't worry about a zone - just ban clearances. If you start with a club, you stay with the club for life. Sit back & watch the sport decline as disgruntled kids (parents) leave the sport.

The recruitment isn't all one way - there are a considerable number of former Sturt and Forestville players scattered around the competition. A number of them played in grand finals yesterday.

Reply #277512 | Report this post

Years ago

So Isaac, you dont think the big kid in under 18's at centrals questions your comment. Dont think he has ever played in the classics or won at State champs however was accepted into AIS, has been a state player forever and currently still in the squad for under 17's. So i guess it doesnt really matter where he played.

well this weekend shows at the moment that there is no real comp.

Reply #277515 | Report this post

Years ago

You could put Chris Clausen in that category. Currently one of the few SA boys (there is 2 I think) playing Div 1 College Hoops.

Or Madgen who has had a successful D2 Career, not sure he played Classics/Won State Champs.

Playing in the Classics are one weekend of basketball. Don't be fooled.

Reply #277517 | Report this post

Years ago

Picking out a single example for your argument shows that I may be wasting my time if I respond - you didn't comprehend my post. I didn't say at all that someone can't make it from a weaker club, I was disagreeing with the blanket opposite: that a strong candidate will succeed no matter their support.

Take a bunch of students from a mixture of socio-economic backgrounds. Give half of them really strong educational support (supportive parents, excellent teachers, great materials), give the other half the opposite (abusive home, lazy teachers, poorly equipped classrooms). Some of the cream will rise to the top regardless (a genius with a crap teacher), but I imagine the numbers look better from the supported side.

Would clubs be pushed to have development officers and better support for coaches if they received their allotment of players no matter what?

Reply #277526 | Report this post

The Banker  
Years ago

Question about Mt barker/Adelaide and if Zones were implemented

Clearly the mavs would be zoned to the adelaide hills so as a player who left the mavs years ago and now is at another club but i still represent the hills in sa country playing for Eastern Hornets

Then whats the difference between Mavericks and Eastern Hornets???

Reply #277531 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, yes they would. Infact moreso. Its pretty discouraging when you develop players to see them improve year after year, make ITC programs and then move on by the time they get to u18s. This discourages voulunteers and discourages the players left behind.

Its a dumb argument to say that players that walk straight into Sturt's Div 1 side haven't been developed. They clearly have to be good enough to make that Div 1 side.

Currently clubs are loosing their best players to other clubs. They develop them and the players leave. You loose one or 2 of these players and it does alot of damage to the club and 9 times out of 10 the player that moves ends up fading away anyway.

The players are developed at a club and they move to another club are damaged because they don't learn to work through issues. This damages the players at the club they leave. This damages players at the club they move to that get "recruited" over. People argue that if you introduce zoning players will leave our sport. You could argue that players leave our sport when they are recruited over too and the players that see their team mates constantly move on to leave them to battle it out alone leave the sport too.

Don't assume that all weak clubs aren't investing time and energy into juniors. Its too easy for players to just move due to some minor perceived issue or because they want to chase success rather than work harder to achieve it. A small financial impediment would make them think twice, plus enable the club they are leaving to invest some more money back into their juniors.

Reply #277533 | Report this post

Years ago

Mavs is a combination of Hornets & Bullets in the District comp, in the Country comp Bullets & Hornets still exist but are seperate.

Much like Sturt FC draws on Mt B & Murray Bridge but HFL & RMFL play association football against each other.

Reply #277536 | Report this post

Years ago

Anon, should your club ask itself why it is losing players? Shouldn't the club work harder to retain the players and improve the club rather than blaming another club for being successful.

Reply #277537 | Report this post

Years ago

No, it shouldn't have to work hard to "retain" players. It should work hard to develop players.

Reply #277538 | Report this post

not to zone  
Years ago

Let's take the following analogy:
My company is struggling. It has difficulty attracting patrons. It produces a limited range of goods of inferior quality.

Now I can do two things:

-Complain; try get legislation in place so the range of goods and the quality produced by other companies also becomes less. Then, my product becomes relatively more succesful, but overall quality would decrease.
Zoning means taking this approach.

-Invest time and money; put in all my effort to get where I want to be, be smart with my investments, and strive to become competitive.
That would improve quality overall.

Reply #277539 | Report this post

Years ago

If your club doesn't want to work hard to rtetain players then it is your loss. All clubs shoud endeavour to develop and KEEP the players they have by giving them the best bball experience possible.

Reply #277540 | Report this post

Years ago

'So Isaac, you dont think the big kid in under 18's at centrals questions your comment. Dont think he has ever played in the classics or won at State champs however was accepted into AIS, has been a state player forever and currently still in the squad for under 17's. So i guess it doesnt really matter where he played.'

I think you can thank SASI/state coaches for that

Reply #277541 | Report this post

Years ago

This analogy has no relevence to this situation from so many facets but I'll try to stretch out your analogy to put it in perspective.

My company is developing outstanding staff and individuals. We have an outstanding development program in place. It takes time for our teams to develop good sales results and revenue to pay our staff. We pay our staff nothing so once we develop them they move to another company that pays them more and the time it takes to get the sales results and revenues is negated. 9 times out 10 the staff that move have been developed well but are too lazy to get through the hard times and develop as a team to get the sales results.

I'm not saying that they should be stopped from moving, only introduce a financial impediment if they play out of their zone.

Reply #277542 | Report this post

Years ago

Anon, not fussed about a small 'transfer fee' if it would encourage families to push through a minor issue or reward the club being left (somewhat) but that can reward clubs who force players to leave through bad coaching, etc. It's an expensive sport already and, at its core, players (and their parents) should be able to choose where they play. I'm a web developer and come across clients whose past web developers force an exit fee - that doesn't encourage much that's positive. If the staff at that past developer are discouraged, so be it - work to improve or shift to a place that is keeping its clients?

(For basic access to sport, parents have school and social sport. We're talking about a professional service to parents/players (paying customers).)

Reply #277543 | Report this post

Years ago

Get good quality coaches and players will not move.

Reply #277544 | Report this post

Years ago

FWIW, I doubt a financial impediment would do anything. The destination club would in many cases offer to pay it anyway.

Is there anything in place to force changes between seasons or an x-week lay-off? I think I've read about such things on here before.

Reply #277546 | Report this post

Tiger Woodduck  
Years ago

I do not have the answer to the best way to zone but agree something needs to be done.

It is not so much about a Clubs program that forces talented kids to move Clubs but more about financial reward.

This certainly is happenning and one Club in particular is very good at it.

No fees, free shoes, petrol money. If you do not believe this happens then your burying your head in the sand.

No matter how good a Clubs program is sometines you can not compete on this level.

Reply #277549 | Report this post

Years ago

I think everyone is missing another vital point in all of this, playing tournament basketball is a totally different game to weekly comp, take a close look at how many games where won by sturt by small margins, Mescke demands sides go to eltham and plays norwood etc, if you add this up sturt players play many more games a year in this tournament style, Its not about who is the best team for 1 game, but what coaches can manage a list, what players have been brought up on tough hard tournaments, and still have a fresh team come GF time, many great sides have done nothing at the classics thru not being able to last the journey, if there is a lesson in this, its more clubs need to compete more regularly at a higher level, take a look at how many melbourne sides came to norwood our attendance in this state was a not good. To improve your club you have to compete at the highest level more often in tournament basketball.
The more you train and play the better you get, it is a simple equation, the average sturt player trains and plays more than other clubs, thru state commitments alone, have a look at how many sturt players make up the average state side, easy to winge that it is biased etc, the hard cold facts are success breed success.

Reply #277553 | Report this post

Years ago

go u power!!

Reply #277555 | Report this post

Years ago

Sturt's success is not due to the kids who move from other clubs. I resent the suggestion.

Sturt would do equally well without the few that come in from other clubs.

Also, you don't get free uniforms or shoes at Sturt, that's not where the money goes.

Sturt's success in the juniors is the result of a concious decision to put efforts and funds towards development of junior coaches and players.
This has been paying off in the juniors for some years, and is now starting to pay off in the seniors.

Reply #277556 | Report this post

Years ago

I agree completely with anon 533.

We are losing kids from the sport because they or probably more importantly their pearents are becoming disenchanted with seeing their team be decimated by good players moving on. The best players leave, many of the next level of players leave and then what are you left with???

Why do the Sturt's and Norwood's and Forestville's take players and promote them in their teams over and above players they have developed?? I guess the players who are not being developed at other clubs are better than players who have been developed by themselves. How can that be so if no-one else develops players except for them???

Who are the basketball gurus out there that know the internal workings of every club and is privy to their financial status to know that all the money is being spent on seniors not juniors??? I am guessing there might only be a handful of persons who would have that information.

Why are certain clubs reluctant to zone when their development process is so good. Surely there will be enough players in their zone to develop??

I do not know if zoning is the solution or not. All I know is that the sport is losing players, players are not developing as well as say in Vic due to the unevenness of the competition and there is an unhealthy presumption that if you are not one of the three above mentioned clubs then we as parents are wasting our time and money having our kids play at other clubs.

Unlike many others on here who do not know everything but proclaim to do so by their assertions I wonder if the structure of BSA is such to ensure as best as possible an even playing field?

There are things which are within the control of the clubs but also many things which are not. Do some clubs have an advantage due to what they have "inherited" Does Sturt and Forestville have an advantage in generating revenue due to their facilities. I don't know!! Does having a 3 court stadium with excellent canteen and bar facilities enable them to generate more revenue than say a South or a North. Without knowing the arrangements for court hire, canteen proceeds dispersals etc I can't answer myself but this is something outside a clubs control which may put them at an advantage or disadvantge to generate more revenue and hence have it available for junior development.

In my opinion we need a working committee to review the situation and to be honest I don't believe key club people are the right people. We need independant people who are capable of understanding the issues, identifying root causes, be lateral thinkers in seeking solutions and finally be big enough to put the sport before the interests of the clubs.

Perhaps while this work is occurring we have a period where transfers are restricted except in untenable situations between club and player. In these cases let BSA determine to which club they move!!

Reply #277557 | Report this post

Years ago

In addition to my previous post and responding to the comments from the Sturt people. I do not disagree with anything you say except that perhaps having players from other clubs may make life a little easier for you and harder for the clubs from where they came. What I find repugnant is the assertions that apart from Sturt and perhaps Norwood and Forestville is that all money is being spent on seniors and that no development of juniors are occurring. I find it repugnant that you think other coaches are not working hard to develop their team and their own skills. Rather than continually talk down the efforts of other clubs and in a lot of cases teenager coaches who are giving up their leisure time to help their club out offer encouragement and support. It is not just players that need development but coaches need to start somewhere. By saying they are not developing players is a slap in the face for these people who are setting out to become coaches and put something back into the sport.

I speak to Sturt coaches and others and I can only believe that these comments are coming from parents sitting on the sidelines who are all knowing about basketball as they are associated with the club.

Reply #277561 | Report this post

Years ago

Sturt, Forestville and Norwood from what I see dont "recruit" players, players approach those clubs and almost beg to play for them. Why because they percieve the coaching and opportunities are better at those clubs, its time the other clubs adopted an enviroment where this occurs. In football terms when port was almost invincible, they didnt have to recruit, there success did there recruiting for them.

Reply #277562 | Report this post

Years ago

Why do kids move? Access to better opportunities, access to better facilities, coaching or other intangibles (playing with friends, parental links, representative opportunities).

Why do kids stay? Because they are happy where they are!

I've just moved states so I've seen a couple of different systems (NSW and Qld) neither of which seem to have any real barriers to movement across Associations. Players move clubs frequently (in some cases) for a host of reasons - to be frank, most of them don't find the answers they were after, just a different set of problems which they can complain about/move away from.

I personally can't support a system which denies a child the opportunity to benefit from good coaching. As a parent my child has changed clubs once (I figured 800km was testing the boundaries of loyalty) but I have been guilty of trying to ensure quality coaches were always in charge of my kids' teams.

When we changed States we came in with a blank slate and the opportunity to pick and choose the club we were going to. My daughter chose to NOT go to the club which then was home to the country's best player in her age group and instead went somewhere she would get to compete against said player and she's been very happy to play in a team which battle shard but lacks the depth of some of the others. They finished 6th, said player's team finished 5th and teams with regular access to less 'stars' topped the ladder and won the tournaments. The modern development calendar means that often clubs are developing players (or poaching them - depends on your view point) only to see them available less and less as they get better and better.

I work in sport (not basketball) and am constantly reminded how powerful access to facilities and access to high quality coaching is to sporting success. There has been research done into the sporting 'hotspots' of elite talent development - why does Russia produce disproportionate numbers of elite female tennis players, South Korea female golfers, the Dominican Republic baseballers? Coaching, facilities and often innovative responses to lack of facilities are identified as the drivers.

If you want a balanced competition then you need to hope that you have a group of clubs who are all equally committed to the growth of the sport and meeting the needs of their PLAYERS (which are often distinctly different from the needs of their PARENTS). Keep the kids happy - treat them fairly, help them develop (they want to progress, they don't all want to be superstars but they do all like to think that sport should be fair!) and make their '3rd place' (basketball is where they spend most of their time - after home and school) an appealing and comfortable place to be and you will be knocking back kids.

Make it a win-at-costs place and let a 'super-parent' run the show and I suspect you'll be processing a bunch of transfer requests - as somebody earlier pointed out - both in and out!!

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Years ago

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Years ago

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Years ago

Whats the password for the sports in action site?
We didnt have a team manager for the weekend

Reply #277570 | Report this post

Years ago


re: "access to facilities and access to high quality coaching"

So facilities are important just as is coaching. Hypothetically I wonder how strong clubs would be if say South and North play out of Wayville and Pasadena and Sturt and Forestville played out of Hillcrest and Marion.

I wonder if showcasing these different facilities has an impact on dragging "new" players into basketball over say an amatuer football club into football.

This is a complex area and I think people are being too simplistic in their assessments of the issues.

Reply #277571 | Report this post

Years ago

Good players in middle of the road clubs move to the better clubs so they can be successful and because of this middle of the road players move to the other clubs to get better opportunities and play div 1.

Reply #277581 | Report this post

Years ago

Norwood seem to be big improvers from where they were a few years ago. This has been a massive step in the right direction, and this was without a fulltime CD.

Now that they have one, will they be able to take it to the next level? Personally I have to agree with #493 - if they really want to move forward, the money on offer was not enough to employ someone with the necessary skillset. Is it a case of just needing someone in the job, or would it have been more important to get the right person in the job. The problem I guess is generating enough money to pay for that person.

In any case, well done to Sturt for once again proving thet they are way ahead of the pack.

Reply #277589 | Report this post

Years ago

I'm sure that one the top clubs you mention above has good coaching, and one in particular will do alot bettter with their new Coaching Director, but for their State Champs results on the boys side one of them are a great example of players transferring for success. They had 5 players transfer from other clbus to their U12 side. Their U18 side has had 2 key players transfer over this yr. However, they only just appointed a JDO and they finnished in the top 3 of the boys Championship grade. THe above poster speaks of the quality of coaching at Forestville, Norwood and Sturt and how this intertwined to their success and yet this club has been a big improver this year on the boys side. On the girls side they have some very good coaches but are clearly slipping.

If a club at the bottom does have good coaching and great management will they go from 120 to 550 players overnight - NO. Will they have successful teams overnight - NO. It will take years. The development of players and good coaching/management is not neccessarily intertwined with instant success. One club for example claim to have 1 of its junior players playing D1 NCAA Basketball (I think 1 of 2 males from SA), another 2 at junior college, one currently pushing for Australian U17 Selection (the only one from SA) and a significant growth in players in elite squads. Yet they struggled over the State Championship weekend.

Success doesn't happen overnight it takes years to achieve. Albeit players are able to just leave when they want to chase short term success, often at the expense of their own longer-term development, their clubmates left behind and the players whose spots they take in their new club. These other clubs gladly take these players into their Div 1 team because often these players are better than many of the players pushing for Div 1 spots.

Zoning in a similar way to which happens in Football albeit with smaller fiscal hurdles to jump for players to jump would mean that the development of players is further professionilised, taken seriously with some financial consideration given for player transfers. It would mean that players transferring need to think seriously about the long term before moving and the club obtaining the player needs to think seriously about justifying the costs to its members who will potentially be recruited over.

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Years ago

Simple question to sturt and forestville, why fear zoning if you believe nothing will change with its implementation ?
I believe if you share the resource the comp gets tougher and more competitive and you will see that players not coaches are the secret of success.
Something to see that, both forestville and sturt developing their own area players and not having first dibs on every player across the state because they perpetuate the myth that they alone can coach.

Reply #277602 | Report this post

Modern Girl  
Years ago

Question: Will the Sturt u18 girls now be going to the classics?

Coz I heard a lot of huff and puff about them being "decimated with injury's" and probs not even gona bother going to the classics if they qualified...

My guess is that they will be there...as usual...

just asking...

Reply #277663 | Report this post

Pallas 78  
Years ago

My response to the original question - was it worth all the hype .
BLOODY OATH IT WAS , we had a fantastic time .
Yes tiring ,stressful ,we were shit scared ( not ) about how we would handle that Zone stuff dished up by Mavs .
Results confirm Zone handled well .
Mesecke is fantastic , coach, clubman , inspirer , supporter all of that . They should clone him.

Reply #277703 | Report this post

Years ago

State Champs is only a qualifying event for the classics, we qualified so it was worth it.

Reply #277825 | Report this post

Years ago

I agree - a lot of kids I speak too are indifferent to the event. Sometimes lose the first game and the rest of the weekend is a waste. Some kids wonder what is the point of losing 5 games in two days.

Perhaps points should be allocated down further than fourth so these kids can see there is some reason for them to pay money and turn up to play!!

Reply #277848 | Report this post

Years ago

BTW if it is qualifying for classics what is the point of U20's or the reserves comp??

Reply #277849 | Report this post

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