Anonymous
Years ago

Razorbacks, Bullets, another Vic and Nz team 2014

Opinions on 4 new teams for next season in the NBL?? Would they be successful or just stink?

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jjb  
Years ago

If nz had another team in the comp would the breakers have to change their name to Auckland ?

Reply #449863 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

It would be awesome to have more teams in the comp. just don't see it happening that soon.

Reply #449865 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Word is at least 6 new teams in the next cpl of seasons

Reply #449867 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

West Sydney Razorbacks would be huge, seeing the a-league shows how passionate western sydney fans are, the team would probably still be around if they didnt make the stupid decision changing there name to the sydney spirit.

Reply #449868 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

@ anon , any word on who those six teams could be? My guess is west syd, Brisbane, wellington, 2nd melb, Canberra and Newcastle. Will Townsville still be around is another question.

Reply #449871 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hawks may not be here. Crocs on the edge.
The Bullets thing I see as being pointless If the NNBL want to run it because they want it and the local investors don't/ aren't interested why would they do it themselves?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

West Sydney and Newc unlikely.

Reply #449885 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

Brisbane will be next season then 2nd Melbourne team. There's a chance that a 2nd NZ team could enter (Saints).

West Sydney? Doubt it. Didn't work well the first time and where would they play? Keep in mind venue accessibility, costs etc.

Newcastle would be great, but just as unlikely as West Sydney.

Canberra, I don't think there's even a sniff of a bid there?

Tassie team would be good and more realistic IMO.

Reply #449889 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lets see if we can keep 8 afloat first.

Reply #449890 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

I don't see the point in going back to places that have flat out failed in the past or that don't have the kind of venue to warrant them being there. I would be good with a second NZ team, A second Melbourne team, Brisbane... then after that I would like them to try Tasmania or even Northern Territory.. lets go somewhere where there isnt competition... West Sydneys never been that popular from memory.. Canberra is a long while off... Newcastle probably the same.

Reply #449895 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

Northern Territory would be interesting but there must be a reason why the NRL hasn't expanded out that way?

Reply #449898 | Report this post


Very Old  
Years ago

Hmm Canberra have not even had a president of their state association for the last 4+ months - the only interstate competition team they are interested in is the Capitals - its bankrolled by their local competition at many, many multiples of paltry ( basically nil) the 4's of their contribution to the Gunners SEABL team -

Reply #449903 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

The only chance Canberra has of ever seeing NBL action is if a Western Sydney team was introduced and they decided to play some home games in Canberra, like GWS does for AFL.

Canberra is lacking in professional sport outside of NRL and Union. If the marketing is done correctly, and there is some local identity attached to the team, a Western Sydney team playing in Canberra would do okay in pulling crowds.

If it happens in the next 2 to 3 seasons, the first person I'd be recruiting for them would be Anthony Petrie.

Reply #449905 | Report this post


Statman  
Years ago

You coaching the Canberra Jagerbombs has it's appeal TR.....

Reply #449910 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Coach of the Gunners is Herb's son.
Canberra, Hobart, Brissie, 2nd Melb team and 2nd Kiwi team may be options. NT good option.
Perth will eventually move to the ASEAN league it seems. Salary cap will come down as well forcing the big spenders back to the field. About time

Reply #449912 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

I'm all for expansion. What does the future hold for Townsville and Wollongong? It would be great to see more teams without them dropping out.

Reply #449913 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

"salary cap will come down forcing the big spenders back to the field" I say if you cant spend the current cap tough luck princess. Why should perth and a few others reduce their spending for a team like Townsville? time to get rid of community based teams they are dragging the NBL down!

Reply #449915 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

League couldn't support four teams added in one season. Not enough talent.

Reply #449918 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

If guys like Ben Allen can already get an nbl gig imagine the talent spread over 4 more teams. It could get worse if the likes of DJ and Goulding head overseas

Reply #449920 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

"commonsense"

So in that case you would have a 5 team league?

OK.

Reply #449921 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Northern Territory would be interesting but there must be a reason why the NRL hasn't expanded out that way?"

Pretty sure the #1 sport in NT is Aussie Rules.

For years the NT (with govt backing) have been trying to get a team into the SANFL but the other clubs kept voting it down (travel costs) and now the NT have a team playing in the TSL in Tassie.

Reply #449923 | Report this post


jjb  
Years ago

To solve the talent spread problem, the nbl could allow teams to have a third non- starting import. It would be hard to establish if the import was starting quality or bench quality but I'm sure they could put in place some sort of criteria.

Reply #449925 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

I see your point natwhereyouat. I don't think the nbl in its current state can expand with teams like Townsville. I admit I have no idea how to fix the nbl, is a semi pro league an option? having a cap of say 700k then adding a marquee player.

Reply #449926 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

I agree with the 3rd import option. But like I've posted here countless times, have it as a "local" import. An import that played in the SEABL, Big V etc.

Reply #449930 | Report this post


BJF  
Years ago

Talent spread isn't an issue like I once thought it was.

Perth's bench is hardly formidable with Wagstaff the only name that multi teams would fight for if he was a free agent.

Cairns has more names on paper than most and is 2nd bottom

In the past teams used to run 7 deep. You had a back up guard and a back up big with the rest being young kids being developed.

Take top 7 of each from the talent pool still gives you 24 players to base rosters on us imports

Hawks probably have the right example of what the talent would be like on an expanded league roster


Reply #449931 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The NBL used to have 14+ teams back when basketball was a low participation sport without a depth of talent and we only had a handful of genuinely world class players, yet the league was high-scoring and popular.

All that would happen if we expanded is the imports and better Aussies would stand out more and the games would be higher scoring. It could actually be a good recipe for getting more casual fans.

Reply #449940 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

I agree with paul, if we build it they will come!

The bigger issue is sponsors and $$$, since we are killing off potential money pits by closing down manufacturing and associated businesses in this country, we need some leadership at the top to foster the right structure first...

Less important is the concern over talent spread and where players are going to come from, more concern should be directed towards over how each team can develop and thrive, rather than just survive IMO...

Reply #449943 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Second NZ Team would certainly work.

Full confidence in their sustainability.

In terms of Wellington, TSB Bank Arena has a capacity of 5,655 people. (Nearby Te Rauparaha Arena has a capacity of 3,000)

Just in the NZNBL, the Saints have 24 sponsors (unsure of $), but some big name sponsors out there including Nestle, Hells Pizza (extremely profitable NZ company), Ibis Hotels, Under Armour etc.

Sponsor dollars could go way up considering the increased exposure (and it would be a huge jump in exposure from NZNBL).

And in terms of talent, there is no need to worry about their ability to fill a roster.

Even just in the NZNBL, they have managed to get some stud players. Their pulling power in a new ANBL comp would be impressive.

Reply #449952 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Have to agree with whoever said there would be a talent dillution... Ben Allen is in the league already!... 4 more teams? Unless you intend to up the rule to 3 imports I don;t see how your gonna do it without making the league really suck.

And I do have to say, if the regional teams are bringing the league down, their futures must be seriously considered. If Townsville is preventing the rest of the league from raising salary caps or is just spounging too much money, with an average of less than 3 thousand attendance a game and the brand clearly straggling.. what is it doing there?

I would bring the bullets in, allow Townsville to drop off if it cant sustain itself. Survival of the fittest is what fuels evolution... when a mother in the animal world has a litter of babies... it will spend its time feeding the strong and will abandon the weaklings. Cruel, but it is a decision made for the survival of the family. Townsville is a weakling... Wollongong is becoming a weakling. We might have to let them die and bring in Melbourne 2 and Bullets. Foundation club or not... and if in a few years one of these teams starts showing they now have a plan to move forward with again, you reconsider them.

Reply #449965 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting analogy - but it's also interesting to note that the AFL are spending a lot of time understanding how equalisation should work (by working with US sports to see how they do it), because they understand that survival of the fittest doesn't work in professional sport. A monopoly in a sporting code is useless - who do you play against. Townsville have been successful before, we're better off understanding how they can get back to that level, rather than continually letting weak clubs die, and trying to replace them.

Reply #449971 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah with four more teams there would have to be a 3 import rule to guard against the lack of talent out there now as it is.

Reply #449984 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Can't rush to add a NZ team. Priority has to be Brisbane and Melbourne because strength for the league will partly come from a TV deal and a NZ team won't help that where Brisbane and a Melbourne alternative to the Tigers might.

Reply #449986 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

"Northern Territory would be interesting but there must be a reason why the NRL hasn't expanded out that way?"

Probably more to do with the fact that everyone south of Townsville starts complaining about the heat once the temperature is over 25 degrees. Not an issue inside an air-conditioned stadium though, but basketball just isn't big in NT, they got pathetic local crowds when they hosted the pre-season tournaments a few years back.

Reply #450006 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Personally, I think a 2nd Townsville team and a 2nd Wollongong team are no-brainers ;)

Reply #450008 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Joke all you like about the community teams but their fans are far more genuine and loyal then say Melb or Syd.

Reply #450014 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

True but not sure Townsville or Wollongong are really going to be in the NBL's future plans.

Reply #450015 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

"Joke all you like about the community teams but their fans are far more genuine and loyal then say Melb or Syd."

Crowd numbers so far this year may suggest otherwise.

Reply #450017 | Report this post


Wildcat Fan  
Years ago

Strong crowd support is vital for regional based teams like Townsville and Wollongong. Given that there is not a lot of corporate opportunities and TV ratings don't count in regional places, the only thing going for them is to have passionate, loyal supporters that turn out in good numbers each game, win or lose (more often lose). Their crowds need to be well above 3,500 on average for each game. In fact, they should be upwards of 5,000 if the league really wants to get back into the game.

So far, crowds have fallen to below 3,000 in Townsville for most of their games, and in Wollongong, they have been struggling to get more than 2,500. And that included just 2,300 against Sydney. Not flash.

Numbers like these, and with limited sponsorship opportunities and with no benefit for TV viewership. they would have a very hard time to convince the NBL that they belong in this league. However as long as there's only 8 teams playing, the NBL will be desperate to ensure Townsville and Wollongong stay on.

If crowds don't pick up considerably for these clubs, and the league expands to include Brisbane and a 2nd Melbourne team, its possible the NBL will simply give up on the Crocs and Hawks and let them die.

Simply put, they need to be visible in their own towns, because if their not, theres no point in them being around, other than to make up the numbers.

**I certainly don't wish that and have always respected the underdog small market teams, so I absolutely want to see the Crocs and Hawks up and about again.**

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Gong all but gone, crocs too.
NZ, Briz, 2 or more in Vic, Hobt, and who ever else.

Reply #450052 | Report this post


rjd  
Years ago

If say 3 teams are added with an unchanged salary cap, there is 3 salary caps more money to spread around. With the dilution of talent, if NBL clubs are responsible, I'd expect that to translate to allowing some of the big name players getting paid more. I'd like to know what kind of salaries some of our Euro-based talent is earning because adding more NBL teams might have the effect of reversing the drain of talent to Euro leagues, or enticing more of our college talent to play NBL.

Reply #450079 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What a dilution of talent. Where does this rubbish emanate from.

Reply #450104 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It would be like going back to the 80s and early 90s, a big difference between the top and bottom talent.

Would certainly increase the scoring, get some players back from OS and make basketball a more attractive pathway for young athletes. Question is how to make these teams sustainable for the long term?

Reply #450107 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I still think Mick's point from the other day about the gulf between stars in the NBA and the end of the bench (in terms of salary and probably skill) is worth more thought and discussion. Dilution of the league, but with salary concentrated at the high end might be the way to go.

Reply #450108 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A lot of teams now aren't spending the cap and no where near it. Lower the cap and bring the competition to a more even level where the chasm isn't as great between Perth and the also rans.
Plenty of talent in the Seabl now and it's getting better every season there.

Reply #450116 | Report this post


rjd  
Years ago

I agree, Isaac, that's why I don't think such a dilution, if it occurs, is a bad thing. I'd argue any dilution won't be very noticeable to the casual viewer since it should also be masked by a return of talent from Euro and college. A dilution that allows some of the stars to stand out more will actually increase the 'watchability' of the league, especially to casual viewers. The question is how to make the teams sustainable and ensure salary cap spending is responsibly allocated to allow the return of talent to counter the dilution effect, not just effectively an x% pay rise for all existing players.

Reply #450133 | Report this post


KB3  
Years ago

If the talent was diluted wouldnt that then mean that the star power of the elite would increase

if each team becomes less talented the gap between the elite and bench player would widen giving the elite talent more potential to show off and therefore potentially become bigger household names for being so dominant

Reply #450134 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

If you look around the continents the leagues with the most talent are the lowest scoring. It's no coincidence the NBL's lowest scoring years have been when there have been fewer teams.

Increase the teams, increase the spectacle for the casual viewer.

Reply #450140 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Exactly, the NBA has heaps of talent dilution, hence the massive difference between the top teams and bottom teams and that guys who are role players on one team stand out on others and they have a handful of guys who dominate the league and stand out more. It doesnt seem to hurt there product does it, and it also means there are plenty of big minute spots for the young talent to come into and make a name for themselves (if they are good enough) see MCW at the 76ers, a top young talent in the NBL doesnt shine as much as they rarely get more than 15-20 mins or a major role in their rookie season, NBA rookies, especially top ones, can be 'franchise' players from day 1.

Reply #450141 | Report this post


Speed44  
Years ago

Stop suggesting a West Sydney team. The Razorbacks were a joke. There would have to be a lot of guarantees in place before the League would even consider a WS team, I think.

Brisbane first and foremost. Then a 2nd Melbourne team. Then NZ MkII. After that, who knows?

I'd love to see Hobart, Canberra and Newcastle back in the League, but in all honesty, I can't see it happening.

I think a 10 team, sustainable League is what we should be looking at for at least then next half decade.

Then, if the NBL is going well after 5 years, and others are keen to join in, THEN we consider them. No more small market teams for now though.

Reply #450157 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Adel to play in Tassie next season.

Reply #450159 | Report this post


Frosty  
Years ago

Tassie won't be able to fund a team or attract players. Canberra is a waste of space and should be bulldozed. Outside of politicians it has no value....hang on a second. Newcastle? Now there's a shithole. You would need to pay visiting clubs danger money. I think we should bring a team out of Murray Bridge or Goondiwindi before we head back to Canberra.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty clear Frosty has his nickname for a reason.

Reply #450166 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Anonymous just said NBA teams have "talent dillution"... I think your taking it all out of context. The NBA's "talent dillution" is the fact that you have Lebron James/Kobe Bryant types on teams and then in 12th spot you have a guy who would be a star in Euroleague. It is hardly any kind of true talent dillution when the overall standard of the league is as high as it is. We don't have the luxury in Australia of further dilluting the talent, We lack the top 20 or so Aussie players.. and now we are going to start picking up SEABL scrubs to fill in positions 9 and 10 whilst remembering we have a crop of guys ready to retire and dudes like Ben Allen who shouldnt even be in the league anyways?... People are saying they only want to go 7 deep? this isn't social basketball! ... Somewhere you have to protect the standard of the league. this is where marquee player/3rd import rule makes sense. I personally would go for a 2 import 1 marquee player rule.. meaning we have a shot at luring back some Aussies. If you want Graeme Dann, Daniel Joyce, Ben Allen in the league than I am worried for your mental well being. I also don't think the NBL suffered the kind of talent dillution in the 80s/90s that people are saying.. We had ALL of our top talent except for Longley in the league... most of our late bench guys would be off in college playing solid minutes these days. watching the old games, teams look deep enough to me... I doubt if we expanded to 2 more teams without import changes we could come close to the depth we use to have.

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rjd  
Years ago

I think the dilution comment relating to the NBA refers to the effect of the NBA having 30 teams instead many fewer teams. Imagine what would happen if the NBA had just 10 teams? Those 12th man spots would be seriously talented. The difference between star player and towel waver would be much, much less than present. The point of the NBA comparison, I suspect, is that talent dilution -- with a greater variance of talent in the league -- does have some benefits.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

TASSIE has the $$$ secured and on top of that the state goverment have all but signed on the line to long term fund.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Won't happen frosty said so. I wonder what the Sixers will think of a Tassie said back in the NBL.

Reply #450188 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

GWB, completely disagree.

If you had 4 teams, you're adding four more $200k jobs, four more $130k jobs, etc. The chance of bringing some guys in Europe home or getting stronger imports increases.And while some weaker players might make teams, that will only help the stars stand out. Four teams in one season would be irresponsible, but with time and wealth/power distribution it could happen.

Reply #450192 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I agree Isaac, expansion is doable and desirable as long as it's done right over a few years. The league can also consider giving expansion teams an extra import or two for their first year so they can space out their local recruiting over two years.

In terms of talking about clubs' sustainability, I wonder if it's more about the making the overall league stronger so it can support clubs.

Every league in Australia has multiple teams that arent sustainable at certain points but is supported by HQ, so basketball needs to find a way to head down that path, and more teams in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (as well as Wellington if it brings additional TV) is probably the best way to do that.

If population estimates show Canberra, Hobart and Newcastle growing significantly Id be looking into them for the next wave a few years down the track.

Reply #450199 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Never heard so much rubbish. Population growth, Western Sydney? Gold Coast? Melbourne?
On that basis Tassie would never get a side. Same for Newc and probably Canb.
More than 2 imports for some clubs so that you can space out recruiting? Bollocks. What diff will that make? Another aussie spot taken by an import. It worked well in Canberra all those years ago didn't it

Reply #450246 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

^^

That's a good example of why you shouldnt post drunk, kids.

Reply #450256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Rest assured population growth isn't a criteria thankfully for the incoming NBL teams.
Nor will they be allowed 3 imports.

Reply #450259 | Report this post




 

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