Jake
Years ago

GF Umpiring

47 free throws to 15 (out of this figure Ennis had 17 free throws) A massive lop sided result in favour of the Cats given how physical they were

Ennis played the most minutes in the game 37.52 and did not commit a foul according the officals. The blocking foul called on big Luke in the last quarter was an example when he just runs through defenders and the officials seem to bail him out, although clearly a charge.

Two flops - one from Knight and Hire that were overlooked.

Hopefully we get a fair game on Friday night.









Topic #34185 | Report this topic


The Situation  
Years ago

Poor Jake. All his prematch trash talk meant nothing. He's rattled.

Reply #468408 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Not rattled at all.......are you and your BF coming across for the game @the situation

Reply #468409 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

My best friend? No. I'll be attending my dad's funeral on Friday.

Reply #468410 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

C'mon Jake seriously complaining about umpires. What a joke.

Reply #468411 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Sorry to hear that. Hard to win when you review the stats - they are what they are - the facts

Reply #468412 | Report this post


+ -  
Years ago

Yes the Refs were shit. But we lost the game on the glass plain and simple. Time to get over it and force a game 3.

Reply #468414 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

I am not blaming the loss on the ref's - cannot see where I typed this.

All I have done is listed some facts and said hopefully we get a fair game.

Interpret it as you like

Reply #468415 | Report this post


samesame  
Years ago

10 of those free throws came in the last minute, as well as 5 fouls. In the junk time that the sixes were trying to get back in it.

So that takes the foul count from 31-19 to 26-19, and Perth's FT from 47-37.

Lets not blow these stats out of proportion and plead ignorance to the way the game played out.

Sure these stats favour Perth, but watching the game, and the way Perth attacked the rim, compared to Adelaide settling for contested jumpers and rubbish, Perth were always going to be rewarded.

Fact is if Adelaide limited the 2nd chance points, they would have won the game.

Not to mention the 36ers set plays to score in the closing stages were terribly executed.

Reply #468418 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As Boti Nagy said: Adel had to fl (10 FTs in last 55 secs), Perth smashed O boards, 36ers rarely attacked hoop in 1st qtr. Adds up

Reply #468419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah but dj got hit a few times and nothing

Anyone that says 47 to 13 free throws doesn't make a difference in a 7 point game is full of it. Of course it does as does giving up 22 offensive rebounds.

Can't make excuses but I'm sure if the free throw count is that one sided in favour of adelaide, pretty sure sixers will win.

Reply #468420 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

The Muzz Buzz dancers obviously intimidated the refs into this game changing decision to call everything Perth's way.

We attacked the hoop, Adelaide settled for jumpers.

Reply #468421 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

I see where Jake is coming from on this, I dont think the reffing caused the loss, giving up second and third chances time after time was the main culprit, a self inflicted wound. BUT its very alarming to think how poor the calls were and how lopsided. Was just a weird game, 6ers couldnt have played worse yet lost by just 7, but rarely looked in it. Aylen and the boys just need to chill and not get caught up in the moment. Would any of those refs truly have the balls to call a game changing charge on Ennis in Perth infront of 13,500... me thinks not based on game 1. Happy to be proven wrong.

Reply #468423 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

Do you think Ennis charged LS?

Reply #468424 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth had 28 3pt attempts to Adelaide's 24.
Perth had 30 pts in paint to Adelaide's 32.

Doesn't look like Perth attacked the rim much more than Adelaide at all to me.

Reply #468427 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

If Perth was getting fouled so much when driving, that isn't going to impact their points in the paint then, is it?

Reply #468430 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

It's funny how Ennis has shot double digit free throws only twice (excluding last night) since January yet last night he shoots a season high 15 (excluding period of intentional fouling).

Obviously came into the game with the right mindset. Kudos

Reply #468431 | Report this post


Bol Bol  
Years ago

Why do people always think the foul count needs to be even? I thought the reffing could have been better for both sides with adelaide getting the worse of it marginally. But the discrepancy isn't solely because of the reffing. Adelaide were outplayed in all facets so dont think if the foul count was even then its an adelaide win. The seven point margin is flattering and it was only close in the end because the cats took their foot off the pedal prematurely

Reply #468432 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Massive Pet hate: people who point out FT or foul count disparity as some kind of justification that the refs screwed them,without any thought or allowance for how the 2 teams played the game.

Never seen it written in any rule book that foul counts or FT's had to be given equally between teams.

Reply #468433 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Terrible isn't it when you have (one of the best referees in the world) and the 3 x consecutive GOLD Medal OLYMPIC referee controlling the game and no one is happy. Go away please.
So many experts, so few brains.

Reply #468434 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Ennis definitely charged Schenscher with a dropped shoulder no one can doubt that, but Schensch lowered the arms so the refs called it a block. Maybe Ennis charged him so hard that Schenscher recoiled but maybe he lowered them before the contact, I dunno. Haven't seen the replay.

Reply #468435 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

But for mine, regardless of whether a guy is moving or not vertical, the dropped shoulder (with such force) should be an automatic charge. I know it is on pretty much any drive to the rack I've seen in the NBL this season. Not to mention Wortho's charge when he dropped the shoulder under the bucket last series (I forget which game), and that contact was a the lightest of touches compared with last night.

Reply #468436 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

He was hit pretty hard.

Reply #468437 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

I don't recall what Ennis did last night but if it made what Wortho did to DJ in game one look like "the lightest of touches" then he must have done a whole lot more than intentionally ram his defender out of the way. Anyone got a time that it happened?

Reply #468440 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

The severity of resulting contact has nothing to do with intention.

Reply #468445 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

I think it was the 3:46 mark in Q4 when Adelaide had gotten it back to seven points. Fitting too, Ennis going a bull at a gate knowing he'd probably get the call due to the state of the game (imo).

Reply #468446 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

One of the 'best' referees in the world.........what gear are you on tonight?

Reply #468447 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

His credentials would probably say he is one of the world's best.

Reply #468449 | Report this post


smoovy  
Years ago

It's not the calls that they get, it's the ones we don't get.

Reply #468450 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Anyone got a time that it happened?

Reply #468451 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth fans are gonna get on here and say it makes no difference but pretty sure if their team was -34 free throw attempts they'd be saying the same thing.

Reply #468454 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

At three quarter time, the foul count was 20-16 (Adelaide had 20) with Perth up by 12 points. From there, the Sixers fouled 12 times to Perth's 3 yet Adelaide cut the lead to 7 by the end of the game. 5 of those fouls came with Adelaide trying to get their way back in to the game.

Adelaide managed to reduce the margin to 6 before they started fouling to stop the clock.

What does that tell us about the reffing? Nothing. What were the refs meant to do? Even up the foul count and stop calling fouls that benefit the team attacking the basket? Absolutely not.

Reply #468458 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

"The blocking foul called on big Luke in the last quarter was an example when he just runs through defenders and the officials seem to bail him out, although clearly a charge."
Schenscher got there maybe a tenth of a second before Ennis did, and hadn't stopped moving. It was a clear block.

"Two flops - one from Knight and Hire that were overlooked."
Hire was given a warning for flopping. Or was there a second one you're referring to?

Reply #468462 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

@Situation,

You'd have to say that Adelaide going the hack nearly worked, as our FG% was far worse in the 2nd half, whereas in the first it was a very sharp 52% if I remember my twitter timeline correctly.

Reply #468465 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Reply #468476 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Point of note, league directive is 50/50 charge/blocks go in favour of the offense. Pretty much sums up the call. 50/50 went in Ennis favor.

Reply #468478 | Report this post


Steve  
Years ago

The foul count was lop sided because Adelaide committed more fouls. Simple!

Reply #468482 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Obviously don't know a lot about the referees in the NBL let alone the world Jake.

Reply #468483 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

Similar stats in the Sacramento v lakers series a while back. Obviously the league wants 3 games.

Reply #468486 | Report this post


Poker  
Years ago

"Not to mention the 36ers set plays to score in the closing stages were terribly executed."

^^^^ This

The last 3 or 4 possessions for Adelaide were laughable for team trying to win a championship. Poor DJ looked woefully out of sync a number of times.

Reply #468487 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Refereeing was a little skewed no doubt.

Adelaide should get a few more 'home calls' Friday.

But, all this hate for the referees is non-sense.


From what I saw, Adelaide shot themselves in the foot defensively.

Adelaide often ran 3 guards under 6"2 in the game at the same time (between Gibson, Carter, Cadee, Ervin, Teys).

Multiple times I saw the guards having to defend guys like Weigh (already a renowned "O board crasher”), Wagstaff (in the post), Redhage, Knight.

Now I am not saying that the 'small ball/guard lineup' isn’t going to work. But you can’t complain giving up so many fouls and rebounds when such mismatches arise (especially against Perth who are a smart team and Martin recognised that).

If Adelaide want to set off/re-balance the disadvantages of small ball, they have to work out how to use it as an advantage. That includes getting the ball up the court quicker, quicker ball movement, penetration and kick.
If they don’t want to get into a running game (because that opens the game up for the likes of Ennis and Beal), then maybe they need to play big (just try it out for a few mins), go with:


Ervin
Teys
Petrie
Johnson
Schensher

Reply #468497 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Did you mean Hire instead of Weigh? :-)

Reply #468499 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

I am not on here banging on saying I know everything about umpiring. Read my post as all I have done is listed some stats. What I will say is that you are incorrect he has umpired x 3 gold medal games as you mention above. He has been to 3 Olympics. Does this make him one of the best in the world? Not in my humble opinion but you can believe that.

Ben Williams is off to ref at the soccer world cup. Great effort but I would not say he is now one of the top soccer ref's in the world. Maybe you would.

To be the best you have to be proven in the best leagues in the world.

Reply #468500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Adelaide did go too small too often, one play that comes to mind was Carter trying to defend Ennis and got blitzed back door with no split line help.

Reply #468504 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

MACDUB - I think the small ball look was driven by not being able to use Creek as much as usual, rather than a first choice tactic. There's a separate thread about Creek being the 36er who was worst hit by gastro prior to game day.

Reply #468505 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

"I am not on here banging on saying I know everything about umpiring. Read my post as all I have done is listed some stats. "

Jake, did you read the stats I posted?

Reply #468507 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

Joey attacking the refs in the press this morning is nothing more than a desperate attempt for the 50/50 calls to go his way.
i dont go for either team and i couldnt see anything wrong with the reffing.
when Ennis is going that hard at the basket with his speed and length a foul or a dunk is inevitable.

Reply #468510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Joey Wright is the biggest whiner in the league - when the 36ers lose, we hear about referees. He complained after game 2 of the SF and the sixers got the best run of refereeing I've ever seen in game, especially the first half, in game 3. No complaints about the referees after that game.

Reply #468511 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Jake,

Ben Williams picked up the gong for best referee in Asia this year. So it's fair to say there's no fluke in his World Cup appointment and that he is, in fact, one of the best refs running around this half of the world. However much that might aggravate people watching five replays from different angles in slow-motion and who have never so much as held a whistle in their lives.

Aylen has multiple Olympic appointments and a men's Gold Medal match to his name; given there are a grand total of three referees every four years that get that honour, that is a massive tick for him.

Now, and this may stagger your ego a little, but the decisions of a FIBA refereeing panel actually carry more weight than your "humble opinion". You think there's a better ref in Aus, go find him and then get on the horn to Mal Cooper and ask why he's not the one being sent overseas and to our Grand Final series.

And yes, you are banging on about it. "[A]ll I have done is list some stats" is intellectual cowardice, and you should have the backbone to self-assess honestly.

Reply #468513 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Back page of today's West - a picture of Joey, with a sub-heading saying "what a whinger." Can't say I disagree with it.

He has never taken responsibility for his own mistakes or shortcomings.

Reply #468516 | Report this post


Poker  
Years ago

"Back page of today's West - a picture of Joey, with a sub-heading saying "what a whinger." Can't say I disagree with it.

He has never taken responsibility for his own mistakes or shortcomings."

^^^ Agreed

However, I think he is a far better game day coach than Trevor Gleeson. Adelaide just don't have the required cattle to win in Perth. Far too many smalls and aside from DJ nothing of note with any height.

Reply #468518 | Report this post


SamCro  
Years ago

Yep, too much whingeing & whining from Joey about the standard of umpiring for my liking. Joey would be better served trying to control the things within his 'own camp' instead of trying to play some mind game's through the media about the umpiring. The 6ers offensive sets fall apart badly when they are placed under extreme defensive pressure. Put your focus their Joey instead of the umpiring!

Reply #468520 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

And you say Boti exhibits pathetic journalism...

Reply #468521 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Yes, he does. Whats your point?

Reply #468522 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/basketball/a/22489794/wright-targets-refs-over-cats-import/

Here's the article. You tell us if he is whinging.

Reply #468523 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Surely I don't have to tell you that printing defamatory opinion on the front of a newspaper is good journalism. Good business sense -- it sells papers, but not good journalism.

And if you're okay with a bit of shit stirring by Perth media, you should be okay with a bit of shit stirring by Adelaide media.

Reply #468524 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

The article itself is nowhere near as provocative, that's just a little teaser some sub-editor has put in to get some page turning happening.

Reply #468525 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

If the article's headline says what you quoted above, I don't have to read a word of your link.

Reply #468526 | Report this post


Poker  
Years ago

As a neutral fan, that article is in a Perth paper so naturally has a Perth slant on it.... ie: make Joey out to be a bigger whinger than he is to generate interest, sell more papers, keep the bogans happy blah blah...

Take nothing you read in the paper as gospel.

Reply #468527 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Don't read it if you don't want Statsheet. No skin off my nose. Whether the headline is inflammatory (was that the word you were looking for?) or not, it doesn't chnage the fact that Joey (and his dad) are serial whingers.

Reply #468530 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Nateofperth you are making way to much of this. If you think he is the best in the world good luck to you. Maybe you should contact the NBA Comish as his talents are being wasted. Cannot wait to see the best in the world this Friday

Reply #468533 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Schoolyard mockery 101... you use it in all your arguments and you do it well.

The point is one of credible journalism, not the fact that Joey is a whinger.

You diverted attention away from that like you always do... part of the debating routine hey. That's followed by some wild hyperbole of the other's argument to make it seem like they have no basis, then it's capped off with a personal jab. Strong routine. You always exit unscathed, yet nothing really gets added to the conversation.

Are you even trying to defend the headline or what? You haven't even offered your point of view in three comments.

Printing a headline like that is not credible because it is subjective not objective, you know that. End of story, unless you want to have a real and tactful discussion about it.

Reply #468536 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Jake, Aylen is top shelf. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have officiated the gold medal game in London.

Reply #468537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jake the NBA have never and will never have an international referee. Their union will never allow it. Caroline Gillespie is the only international referee to work in the WNBA. Just because you ref in the NBA/WNBA doesnt mean your the best in the world. Just means you the highest paid refs in the world.

Reply #468538 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Statsheet, we're all talking about Joey being a whinger. You can keep talking about the headline if you like.

You are so desperate to try and get one over me, its really becoming quite sad. You can't help yourself when you see me post, think "oh, I can get him back now" and try and bring me down on a trivial matter, then blame me when either the discussion derails or that I somehow started a pointless argument on you.

And if we want to talk about personal jabs, you used my real name a few weeks ago, thought you had put me back in my place, then asked for an apology. Like I said the other day, you have some issues.

Am I defending the headline? No. Do I care about the headline? Not really. Is it comparable to some of the pap that Boti has served up in recent weeks? Not even close.

Reply #468539 | Report this post


Billy Goats Gruff  
Years ago

takes one to know one

Reply #468541 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

hahahahahahha

Reply #468543 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

We should meet one day. It'd be a pleasure!

Reply #468544 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

And now you're asking me out. Make up your mind!

Reply #468545 | Report this post


Billy Goats Gruff  
Years ago

takes one to know one

Reply #468547 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Jake, "best" in the world is a silly concept to try and judge, but being elite enough to be on panels for major quadrennial international tournaments is a useful mark to judge him by. With thousands of referees making up the refereeing cadres of the top leagues around the world, competition for Olympic panel spots is fierce and being able to have a ref with those credentials is huge.

Now, if you want to put a conclusion to your "just listing stats" comments, once we can reach this conclusion that he is a legitimately good referee *by all reasonable international standards* and thus is unlikely to create that sort of foul/FT disparity by bumbling incompetence, then if we are to suggest that Perth received an armchair ride to victory from the refs, then you have to approach from one of two angles.

Either you try to suggest that the Perth crowd is so intimidating that a referee who has successfully handled the pressure of an Olympic show-piece has been undone by it well in excess of typical HCA in 50/50 calls, or you have to assume deliberate malfeasance.

So do you think the refereeing was fair, do you think Perth Wildcats have one of the scariest crowds in the world, or is your hat lined with tinfoil?

Reply #468548 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Haha, that's a good one.

Alright, the reason I like to call you out is because I want to see what you come up with and you never really disappoint. Very good at discrediting others and their opinion, that's how you do things.

I'm done, it's like you're only talking to yourself and debating with yourself.

"Yeah Situation, good point."
"You also make good points, Situation. Everyone else is just pond scum, but us two...always right."

I can't make you see how utterly biased you are. And that's alright, the Wildcats market well... oh I forgot to mention slanderous and tactless.

I realise if someone changes your opinion, it's as though someone has cut your left arm off at the elbow -- it hurts!

At the end of the day, I find your posts good entertainment value. Don't know why I wanted to shut you up. Keep it up, man.

Seriously, we're cool. I'm over it :)

Reply #468549 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

"the reason I like to call you out is because I want to see what you come up with and you never really disappoint."
So you just criticise me to see how I react? Thats just rubbish and you know it. You've been trying to score a win for a while.

"Very good at discrediting others and their opinion, that's how you do things."

Correct. I don't believe in "everyone is entitled to their opinion" when that opinion is poorly thought out, or just plain wrong.

Reply #468550 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Okay, last one.

I don't criticise you (initially), I criticise your opinion. But when you hit back the way you do, I get annoyed at you.

Well I doubt I'll change your mind, but have a think. If you believe others' opinions are poorly thought out or just plain wrong, remember that your opinion is exactly that -- not fact and a subjective way of looking at things. Try to think more in other peoples' shoes.

Anyway, I'm complimenting you on your ability to argue a point, so we will drop it at that. I will at least

Reply #468555 | Report this post


Steve  
Years ago

Get a room you two.
Referees, just like players, can have an off day, doesn't mean they are bad refs. They just had a bad game.

Reply #468560 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ +1

Reply #468566 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Statsheet stuffer - Mayberry is no slouch either

Reply #468570 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Oh man... Mayberry. Used to screw over the Taipans something fierce back in the day.

Reply #468572 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mayberry shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence as Aylen. Ever.

Reply #468573 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Nate, we will agree to disagree but you are reading way to much into it and making assumptions that are inaccurate.

Reply #468574 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Still, Mayberry was at the 2012 olympics as well...

Reply #468575 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

joey;'we weren't allowed to breathe on ennis,while dj copped plenty ,not called. and we gave them 47 freethrows,too many in a grand final.'

Reply #468585 | Report this post


mystro  
Years ago

haha Joey's whinging even made the papers over here in NZ.

Reply #468586 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

aw...saw him on all tvnews services here, yesterday

Reply #468588 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

I don't think anyone thought the refereeing was going to be quite as one one sided as it was on Monday night. But seriously, if anyone thought that the Wildcats weren't going to get some home town calls in front of 13,000 at the Perth Arena then they were dreaming.

Every team gets home town calls and often get away with a fair bit more at home than they will on the road.

I'm a big rugby league fan and there is forever talk in the NRL about referee blunders costing a team a game or even a premiership (as has happened many times, including the 2013 Grand Final. Read some of the NRL forums and there are threads dedicated to bagging refs performances). Its the kind of talk that I hope never dominates an NBL result, GF or not.

Referees are human. They will make mistakes. They will be in the wrong spot and will get a call wrong at times, and they will sometimes make calls that favour the home team.

Its not a perfect system, but hey, what is? (other than myself. I'm perfect I tells ya, but don't ask my family because they tell lies :p)

Reply #468964 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Home town calls" LOL not one Ref was from Perth, all from Melbourne. But lets not let that get in the way of a good story.

Reply #468969 | Report this post




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