GWB
Years ago

How will the Boomers replace Patty at the worlds?

Before the injury I had thought to myself, the one player on the Boomers who is irreplaceable is Patty Mills. Everyone else on the team has their 'near enough' equivalent somewhere.. but not Patty. His sheer speed, his shooting ability and ability to be a game breaker who takes the team on his shoulders when nothing else is working is something unique to Patty.

How will we fill that void? Dante Exum? Chris Goulding? Drmic? Ingles? Simmons?

I figure the closest to Mills is Goulding, but he doesn't possess the same defensive tenacity or speed as Mills. Will it be Gouldings team this year? As Goulding is probably one of the few guys on the squad with the same cockiness who isn't afraid to throw shots up and has that 'game breaker' mentality?

Can we still go deep in the tournament without Patty? IF so how would we do it? I am still hopeful of a top 8 finish... top 8 would be a success without our best player.

Topic #34814 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think we need to throw Dante to the wolves and hope for the best.

The rest of the team should be better than at the London Olympics, with Delly and Baynes having NBA experience and adding the likes of Goulding and Bairstow.

Need to stop mentioning Drmic for the Worlds. He has a bad foot injury at the moment.

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Observer  
Years ago

I can fill in the void ive got the speed but no scout have taken notice of me.

Reply #481380 | Report this post


Naph  
Years ago

I think our best remaining players are either too old or too young. Other than Ingles & Newley who is in their prime? Baynes maybe?

I just don't see anyone that has a history of carrying off being a #1 scoring option at this level. I mean sure, maybe a 34yo Anderson can be that guy, but do we really think that a team focussed around that plan is going to go far?

Plenty of talented, but mostly complementary pieces on the squad. You can win with a squad of role-players, but it doesn't happen very often.

Reply #481381 | Report this post


Vart  
Years ago

Andersen can't carry the squad, he's purely a complementary player.

No one can replace Patty, especially not when he's in the form he showed this season. It will have to be done by committee.

Goulding was borderline being selected when Patty was healthy. I think Patty's injury pushes him over the edge. I think him and Dante will share the shooting guard role. It will be great to see how much Exum can contribute.

I feel like I'm the only guy who thinks Damian Martin must go to Spain, but I'll mention it here again anyway!

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Vart  
Years ago

By the way, a Top 8 finish without our two best players in Bogut and Mills would be outstanding, but is very much still a possibility.

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Steven  
Years ago

I think Ingles becomes our number 1 player now.
Goulding will almost certainly make the team now and will be given the green light to shoot and Exum will be thrown more minutes I originally had him as 4th or 5th guard.

Reply #481385 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

+1 Vart for Martin to go to Spain. My pick as Delly's back up while Goulding and Newley play 2 guard and Exum plays at both spots.

Reply #481386 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I think Delly would be a harder loss than Patty. I'd be throwing Goulding and Exum out there to see what they can do. Goulding strikes me as the sort who could step up no matter the level of play. Just a matter of whether the shots are dropping.

Reply #481387 | Report this post


Vart  
Years ago

Finally! Thanks Steven.

Yeah, I think he is the best point guard we have outside the NBA. He's playmaking has improved A LOT the past couple of seasons. And we all know about his defensive prowess. He may actually be the best defender we have, period, outside of Andrew Bogut. But the thing that really gets him over the line is his improved three-point shooting. He's the total package now.

If he had of been shooting the three this well his entire career, there is no way Peter Crawford would have gone to London over him.

Reply #481388 | Report this post


Big Ads  
Years ago

I'll be happy for Martin to go to Spain but I have a suspicion Hugh Greenwood will be chosen in front of him. Just a hunch.

Reply #481390 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Martin's too limited to make a full strength Boomers team but I'd take him now over Greenwood in a heartbeat.

Reply #481394 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Yes I agree... Damien Martin and Goulding can now book their tickets I believe.

I would be looking at a team like this

Delly
Goulding
Ingles
Anderson
Baynes

Martin
Exum
Newley
Simmons
Motum
Jawai
Broekhoff/Drmic/Gliddon (someone who can hit the three basically)

Reply #481397 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Actually.. Maybe Bairstow over Jawai.. thats a deep position.

Reply #481398 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

With Mills gone, I really hope one of these young 'unknown quantities' can surprise the hell out of us.. How do you think someone like Simmons would go against grown men?

Reply #481401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Chances of a medal at this tournament are gone, so I would go young and build for next olympics and world's to have a chance at getting a medal.

I like GWB's team but would replace Anderson with Bairstow to see how the young guys can handle the pressure.

PG - Delly / Exum / Martin
SG - Goulding / Broekhoff
SF - Ingles / Newly
PF - Bairstow / Motum / Simmons
C - Baynes / Jawai

I know Martin doesn't fit the youth mould, but you need a 3rd PG incase Delly gets injured. A really high risk/high reward strategy would take Greenwood in that spot.

Reply #481402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Delly/Martin or greenwood- really tough call.
Goulding/Exum
Ingles/Newley/Simmons
Bairstow/Anderson/Motum
Baynes/Ogilvy

Martin is better defensively, great hustle and can steal the ball on multiple occasions.
Greenwood causes very little turnovers and is a better ball handler, maybe a slightly better basketball iq. (not to mention plays well in combination with bairstow)

Reply #481403 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Patty is irreplaceable. We are talking about the guy who has gone hammers at every Olympics and world champs he has been to. He was all sorts of crazy at the last olympics beating out all the USA point guards.

Reply #481404 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

On the face of it, a big loss, however then an opportunity is created for others.

How do we replace a fast PG who shoots like a SG, with those two mentioned ^ Martin & Goulding.

The unfortunate thing is that maybe both won't fit the team, but I have seen enough of Martin's hustle and Goulding's shooting to suggest they are Mills split in two...

Reply #481406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No way can start Goulding over Newely. Damian Martin pretty much a shoe in now as the 3rd lead guard behind exum and delly.

Reply #481407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

martin and greenwood both good rebounding guards too.

On the other side of the coin youve got a good shooter in gibson who could also play as SG?

Reply #481408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Goulding and/or exum need to step up

Reply #481409 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I can picture Goulding going bananas and shooting 50 points in a game. Kid can shoot.

Reply #481411 | Report this post


Vart  
Years ago

Interesting point raised above about the Bairstow/Greenwood combination.

Bairstow is an absolute lock so long as the Bulls let him play, and don't try and pull some stunt like they did with Chris Anstey in 2000.

GWB, I personally think Simmons will be fine against grown men. He's 6'10", 235 pounds himself, so not exactly small. He hits the weights really hard to, has done for a while, so I think his strength (for an 18 year old) would be pretty good.

Reply #481415 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Time to blood the youngters and build towards Rio.

Reply #481416 | Report this post


Antsy  
Years ago

Vart, Chris Anstey played the 2000 Olympics so not sure what Bulls stunt you're referring to?

Reply #481422 | Report this post


Lance_Uppercut  
Years ago

Yeah Vart, I agree, the more i see Simmons the more impressive his game looks and he has added quite a bit of muscle and strength to his frame.

Baynes
Andersen
Ingles
Goulding
Delly

Jawai
Bairstow
Simmons
Newley or Broekhoff
Exum

Martin
Motum or Wortho

Reply #481425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Simmons in his age group is a natural PF.
At the next level... with his speed, shooting ability and being able to finish around the rim, I think he's best suited to the SF position for the time being. At the world cup he'll only be guarding people around the 6'6 to 6'9 100 kg range(much like himself). He would be completely overpowered in the PF position with veteran 6'10+ big bodies over 120kg.
In a couple of years time, I'm sure he will have no problem playing both the SF and PF at the international level.

Reply #481430 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

I have only seen highlight reels, who could you compare ben simmons game to?

Reply #481435 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vart, Chris Anstey played the 2000 Olympics so not sure what Bulls stunt you're referring to?


The story goes the Bulls told him they wouldn't re-sign him if he played at the 2000 Olympics and he chose to play anyway.

Never played in the NBA again either.

I still remember Longley being traded during the 2000 Olympics from Phoenix to New York.

Reply #481442 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How to replace Mills, here's is one from left field!

Can Kevin lisch play for Australia?

There was a lot of talk of him getting Australian Citizenship in 2013. Did it happen.

I wouldn't normally suggest using the FIBA one player naturalised rule but it makes sense right now.

Great scorer, mongrel on defence, has the Aussie mentality

Reply #481443 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

then

starting

Dellavedova 192cm
Newley 199cm
Ingles 203cm
Bairstow 208cm
Baynes 208cm

Bench

Exum 197cm
Lisch 188cm
Broekhoff 201cm
simmons 208cm
Andersen 212cm
Jawai 208cm

then one of the following depending on need eg go bigger or smaller

Goulding, Motum, Johnson, Ogilvy

Reply #481445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

We dont have a chance of medaling even with milks

Reply #481446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

what about with Milks AND Cookies

Reply #481448 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Goulding would have to be a lock right now..

Reply #481454 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

No way should Greenwood come into consideration.

No where near Boomers level yet - i think quite a few PGs in the NBL are probably ahead of him IMO!.


I feel like Goulding is going to go off. As mentioned in other threads, teams will scout but won't know too much about him. Id feel pretty comfortable that he could get good looks off most defensive 2 guards. He was obviously heavily scouted in the NBL but still had many tricks and moves up his sleeve.

Reply #481472 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"No way can start Goulding over Newely. Damian Martin pretty much a shoe in now as the 3rd lead guard behind exum and delly."

I reaaaaaly don't want Newley to start. I've said it before but he's been terrible 80% of the time i've seen him play for the Boomers. His shot is very inconsistent and when it's off, it's off. I mean airballing and completely bricking off. His basketball iq is also terrible. He takes bad shots and makes bad passes. I remember one time at the last olympics he had an open team mate and instead opted to drive to the rim and got the shit blocked out of him by the opposing center. He might be good for his European club but not as a Boomer I know he'll be a part of the team i just hope he plays better than he has for us in the past.

"GWB, I personally think Simmons will be fine against grown men. He's 6'10", 235 pounds himself, so not exactly small. He hits the weights really hard to, has done for a while, so I think his strength (for an 18 year old) would be pretty good."

Yeah, Simmons is 6'10 and has put on a fair bit of muscle. I'd say a better question is how the grown men would handle Simmons.

"The story goes the Bulls told him they wouldn't re-sign him if he played at the 2000 Olympics and he chose to play anyway.

Never played in the NBA again either.

I still remember Longley being traded during the 2000 Olympics from Phoenix to New York."

Wasn't Anstey doing quite well aswell. Wasn't he averaging over 10 ppg?

I don't think any one player can replace Mill's input. No Boomers player has the offensive abilities of Mills. I think in general, everyone has to stand up. We have to make the extra pass, take the best shot available and have as few mistakes as possibly.

Reply #481475 | Report this post


MCV  
Years ago

What's Newley's form like? Is he a better option at the starting 2 spot than Goulding?

Reply #481484 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

In a funny way I feel like leaving the NBL was the worst thing Newley could have done for his game. The guy was a dead set scorer and very similar to Goulding when he was here.. but somethings happened since then that has turned him into a role playing robot.. I feel like the Newley of 04 could have taken the team on his back a little bit. The Newley of now is just another cog in the machine... unable to score prolifically the way he use to. Anyone else see this?

Reply #481485 | Report this post


Vart  
Years ago

That's the Anstey story I was referring to. He was a free-agent after the 99-00 NBA season. The Bulls wanted him to skip the Olympics and remain in Chicago during the off-season to work on his game. He chose to play in Sydney, and never played in the NBA again.

GWB - Simmons reminds me of, you better sit down, LeBron. I don't specifically remember watching LeBron at the same age, but just the athleticism, full court game, passing ability, finishing strong at the rim, high basketball IQ. Simmons is arguably a better outside shooter than LeBron was at the same age too.

GWB - About Newley, I'm not sure what happened to him after 2008. He dominated the Beijing Olympics as our starting two-guard, but just has never been the same player since.

Reply #481523 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

So do you think he could be very good right now at the worlds then?

Anywhere I can see full games of Simmons?

Reply #481539 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"That's the Anstey story I was referring to. He was a free-agent after the 99-00 NBA season. The Bulls wanted him to skip the Olympics and remain in Chicago during the off-season to work on his game. He chose to play in Sydney, and never played in the NBA again."

You gotta respect that. He could of made millions in the NBA but gave up his chance to play for his country instead.

"GWB - Simmons reminds me of, you better sit down, LeBron. I don't specifically remember watching LeBron at the same age, but just the athleticism, full court game, passing ability, finishing strong at the rim, high basketball IQ. Simmons is arguably a better outside shooter than LeBron was at the same age too."

Lebron is actually not a bad comparison. Simmons isn't as athletic but in terms of skillset and their games, they're not that dissimilar. Though Lebron is on a whole other level, of course.

As has been said before - the whole Simmons is a kid, he can't play against men should be put to rest. At 6'10 and 235 i think he'll do just fine.

Reply #481542 | Report this post


Lance_Uppercut  
Years ago

I would agree with Vart on the Lebron comparison as a Point Forward, but not as athletic as Lebron is, but has the ability to finish at the rim in traffic, very good ball handler for his size, great passing ability, shoots well, high IQ etc, its not an unfair comparison at their similar ages. That's probably why he is ranked #1 for class of 2015

Reply #481546 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

Absolutely worth giving Simmons a shot I would rather Simmons than Worthington or even worse Barlow

Reply #481547 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Yeah... may as well give Simmons a spot. I hope Dante has improved markedly since his last games... maybe he could really pick up the slack for Mills in that case. I expect big things from Goulding.. it wouldn't surprise me if he makes NBA one day

Reply #481548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Improved Markedly? He barely played in the last series and when he didn't he wasn't terrible.

I'd rather him starting over Goulding.

Reply #481550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wasn't Anstey doing quite well aswell. Wasn't he averaging over 10 ppg?


He averaged 6ppg @ 44% with the Bulls.

Reply #481553 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vart, love the comparison, love that you had the balls to go there. There are a lot of things that Lebron can do that Simmons can't, but go back four years and he was being crucified for not posting up JJ Barea in the Mavs/Heat finals. A reliable 3-pointer is also something he's added to his game in the last 5 years. Simmons is obviously not as athletic, and I think that's true both vertically and laterally, so a defensive comparison to Lebron would be unfair. But offensively, he's got a similar combination of size, strength, skill and IQ to a 19-year-old Lebron. Hope LSU is the right environment for him to keep getting better, because it's sure off the beaten track for elite hoops prospects.

Can't believe Greenwood is being discussed for a Boomers gig right now. The guy seriously struggled to face up his man and throw a decent pass against China, let alone create genuine offensive opportunities.

Reply #481555 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Shaq went to LSU

Reply #481557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"He averaged 6ppg @ 44% with the Bulls."

Thought it was more than that. Oh well.

Reply #481564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No probs unfortunately Anstey was a pretty big bust in the NBA.

5.2ppg, 3.4rpg, 0.4bpg @ 41% from the field in his 3 years in the NBA as an 18th pick.

Reply #481570 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#557, Larry Bird went to Indiana State, Paul George went to Fresno State, Damian Lillard went to Weber State, Kenneth Faried went to Morehead State, Hakeem went to the University of Houston, David Robinson went to the damn Naval Academy.

I'm not saying Simmons can't go to LSU and be successful, but with the exception of Emmanuel Mudiay (Southern Methodist) in the class of 2014, you have to go back to 2009 and Derrick Favors to find a top-5 recruit (Simmons is #2) at a school outside of Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, Carolina, UCLA, Texas, Arizona, Baylor, Ohio State, UConn and Florida.

Reply #481578 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Martin is a minnow at international level. Timid and scared and too slow to guard anyone.

Shoots 32% from the 3 as well. No thanks. (why is everyone above in this thread saying he shot it really well last season? 40% from the field and 32% from three...)

Love what he brings to the table in the NBL but it's just a completely different ball game.

Reply #481658 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I love ya Mick, but I can't think of anyone else who posts more things that are clearly incorrect on this forum!! Martin shot 44% from the field and 42% from three last NBL season, which was 5th best in the league when you don't count guys who only took a handful of attempts.

Martin basically played junk minutes in Brown's containment-based system, so that's hardly a good guide to how he would go playing a role in Lemanis' disruptive system.

We need guys who can guard guys like Dragic, Kalnietis, Morais and Costa, all open court guards who set the tone for their teams, and we don't have anyone better at that than Martin who makes a living dogging quick, open court guards.

Reply #481660 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It's come to the point where we should really only be taking NBA/Euroleague players plus some of the future NBA prospects (Simmons/Maker) and maybe one elite NBL player (like Goulding). We're deep and strong enough now that guys like Barlow/Martin/Worthington etc shouldn't really be playing for us.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

And also regarding Simmons - There was a recent interview with Kevin Goorjian who has coached Andrew Bogut, Chris Anstey, Jason Smith etc and he says that Simmons is the best player he's ever coached.

Also a recent article about Simmons finished with this possible lineup for Rio


Starting five:

Patty Mills

Dante Exum

Andrew Bogut

Ben Simmons

Joe Ingles

Bench:

Aron Baynes

Matthew Dellavadova

Thon Maker

Cameron Bairstow

Brad Newley

Replace Newley with Bolden and i could definitely get behind this lineup.

Reply #481754 | Report this post


Lance_Uppercut  
Years ago

Rio team....probably a bit early to speculate

Exum/ Delly
Mills/ Goulding/
Ingles/ Simmons/ Bolden
Bairstow/ Maker
Bogut/ Baynes

Reply #481789 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

I like Lance Uppercuts team would probably add Drmic for final spot.

Reply #481791 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

When is the next Boomers squad announced?

Reply #481801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Rio team....probably a bit early to speculate

Exum/ Delly
Mills/ Goulding/
Ingles/ Simmons/ Bolden
Bairstow/ Maker
Bogut/ Baynes"

I'd add Humphries and find a place for Adel. Maybe swap him with Goulding.

Reply #481890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

My world cup team 2014:

PG
1. Dellavedova 6'4 92kg
2. Exum* 6'6 86kg (offense)
3. Martin 6'1 92kg (defense)
SG
1. Ingles** 6'8 98kg
2. Goulding 6'4 92kg
SF
Simmons*** 6'9 105kg
Newley* 6'7 93kg
PF
Bairstow 6'10 114kg
Anderson**** 7'0 112kg
Motum 6'10 111kg
C
Baynes 6'10 118kg
Jawai 6'10 127kg (Ogilvy 6'11 113kg to step in if injured.)

Makes the starting 5:
6'4/6'8/6'9/6'10/6'10

*SG also.
**SF also.
***PF also.
****C also.

Delly over Exum to start (better at creating, a better defender and is a much safer ball handler at this point in time.)
Ingles although primarily a SF, he makes a great SG and has much better size and versatility than goulding, aswell as defense.
Simmons I believe is more than ready. Good size frame who can pretty much do it all. Will be a better defender than the other options at SF aswell and add a rebounding capability to the position along with backup interior offense and defense.
Bairstow over the other 2 (anderson and motum)
for his size, toughness on defense and his range of offensive skills (post and mid range).
Baynes over Jawai purely because of his gas tank.
Ogilvy would be an overall better option than Jawai, but Jawai's size makes it much more difficult for opposing frontcourts. (without Bogut)

Reply #482897 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not a bad thought on team selection, keeping an eye on the future by including some young guns for their first senior international experience, but Maker and Humphries still too young IMO.

Reply #482909 | Report this post




 

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