GWB
Years ago

Where to now for the Boomers?

Nothing can be done now, it's time to dust ourselves off and look to Rio.

I believe in many ways, the team did us proud. We beat a world power in Lithuania, we won three games in a row for the first time in 16 years, and the NBA prospects of Aron Baynes and Joe Ingles have frankly never looked better. But we stumbled at the big hurdle, when it was time to stand up and be counted our lack of experience showed and we were unable to execute our fast and furious game plan all the way to completion.

Now questions have to be asked. Whilst I don't think in the end, the Lemanis' coaching was bad, will he stay on until Rio? Has he earned that? He has run a team with great potential, yet it sorely lacked offensive identity and at times, defensive prowess. If he is to move on, who would replace him?

Also what is the nature of our qualifiers now? When do we join Asia and what does it mean for the Boomers yearly calendar?

What will our Rio 2016 team look like? Is there any weight to the rumours of Thon Maker taking up Canadian citizenship? Has Ben Simmons being emmitted from the team caused bad blood between him and the team? Will Dante Exum develop as he is expected to?

Does our, almost shocking inability to make it through to the top 8 adversely affect our funding? Can we still make a claim on the same money due to the sheer potential our future teams have?

A lot of questions have to be raised when our most confidant team in 14 years fails to meet even its lowest objective.

But having said that, I think the Boomers showed promise. I think the team has a great future.. and I can't help but wonder what might have been if not for a few more made freethrows.

And especially what might have been if we had Andrew Bogut and Patty Mills.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If Bogut and Mills (even just Mills) had of played we would be still in the tournament. Simple as that. 2016 Olympics if we dont medal it will be a fail.. MASSIVE FAIL!

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GWB  
Years ago

Totally agree.. With Mills we would have comfortably beaten Turkey. I wonder what people think of my other questions though

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes we didn't have Bogut or Mills, but we aren't the only team missing players. Turkey didn't have Ersan Ilyasova, Enes Kanter, Hedo Turkoglu or Semih Erden.

"I believe in many ways, the team did us proud."

No they didn't. How is tanking a game and finishing 12th doing us proud?

The Boomers are a mediocre team. They've never won a medal at a major tournament. They've never played for a medal at a World Championship. They haven't even made the quarter finals of World Championship since 1994.

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GWB  
Years ago

Here are some teams that have tanked before. Spain against Brazil 2012 olympics. Slovenia in eurobasket. Brazil in Fiba Americas and more. So lets not worry so much about tanking.

As for being a mediocre team, depends how you define mediocre. We are top ten in the world standings and have always been since the late 1980's. We regularly knock off power house teams, atleast one per tournament and we have 7 (soon to be 8) NBA players.

Australian Basketball is on the rise, and many believe we are a future world superpower.

We have won silver at the past 2 or 3 junior world cups, that surely will translate at some point.

To be fair, the Boomers are not (yet) a world super power, the closest we came was in 1996 and 2000, we have always been a tough team that will give even the best a run for their money, but we are yet to have that consistency that makes us a real perennial medal threat. I believe it COULD come in the next few years... this thread is just asking the 'hows'


As for making us proud, I feel the emergence of Broekhoff.. the NBA interest in Ingles, the coming of age of Gibson and the stellar play of Baynes is the reason for some pride, don't you?

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MACDUB  
Years ago

My opinion:

You don't win with 20/21/22 year old players - no matter how good they are.

You go deep into the WC with experience and players that have gone there before. LTU are a great example of this – Sure, Jonas is 22, but look at the ages of their other players including their captain - 34, 34, 30, 29, 32, 28, 29. Those senior guys carried them home against NZ. Experience counts.

If you think Exum, Simmons and maybe Maker are going to come in and leapfrog Australia right into medal contention for 2016, you’re gonna have a bad time. I remember when the USA put college stars and recent draftees into their 2006 team. Some of the best players in the world and crazy athletic freaks – and they lost. Because Greece’s experience won on the day.

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GWB  
Years ago

Good point Macdub, but almost all of our team should be late 20's by rio.. and I would think someone like Simmons would help, experienced or not.

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Steven  
Years ago

Good questions GWB.
Lemanis: is going to be remembered for the Angola contraversy in a move to avoid USA which ultimately backfired. Even without Bogut and Mills we should have made top 8.
If Lemanis isn't the man for Rio who is? Goorjian or Bevridge?

Exum: Has showed he is not ready yet, I think he will be there in Rio but unless he improves dramatically will come off the bench behind Delly and Mills.

Maker: this kid needs another 15+kg before even being considered. He will be 19 in 2016 imo not ready.
That's not taking into account the Canada rumours. If he plays in next years under 19s I will be more confident about him playing for us.

Simmons: hasn't endeared himself with remarks on social media is behaving like a high school kid which he is.
Is no doubt talented and was close to making this team I think we will see him in Rio.

Very impressed with Broekhoff though I want to see him do more than hit threes.
Motum and Bairstow will be 25/26 in Rio so I expect they will be improved should they make the team.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

12th in the world is honestly about where we are at.

Losing to angola cost us big time as trying to avoid the USA is the wront thing to do for AUS basketball. I realise we would have met them later anyway but that was assuming we were going to beat turkey and someone else.
All the missed publicity, if we could have stayed close - even in a loss would have got basketball on all the news bulletins and on the paper. Understand the decision but

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Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I felt pride when they stood up and beat Lithuania. Nothing since then.

I am proud of the individuals making it to the NBA and Aussie hoops getting some recognition but I think that is ultimately to the detriment of the local competition and to an extent the national team.

As players become more 'professional' (ie playing in NBA and Europe) their interests and accountabilities will be more with their employer (fair enough when you're talking about that sort of $$$), let alone the extra wear and tear their bodies take in the stronger leagues.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I wonder if the Aussies bet on a 1 point loss.

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Baller#3  
Years ago

Predictions:

We wont medal at Rio

Bogut wont play at Rio or suit for the boomers ever or at least until he retires from the NBA.

We will medal at the next world cup


my thoughts on this world cup:

We were over hyped by almost everybody, both Australian and American media (Bleacher Report had us finishing fourth at the start somehow)

Exum should have played exactly how he did, he is part of the future and although he didn't do much he would have gained so much experience through it.

Ingles got either lazy or tired or something else but he should always remain aggressive to score first. Both the boomers and ingles look so much better when he is looking to score rather then pass first.

We need to run our half court offense alot better. We look almost as bad as the USA in terms of halfcourt offense structure sometimes. The difference is their talent gets it done, ours cant.

Goodbye David Andersen, surely he has played his last major. Looked almost out of his depth at times this year, had a few nice moments but just not consistent enough to be in the starting lineup let alone the team. I'm assuming he was picked for that "experience" role player, but probably should have left him and taken simmons or someone else.

I think that overall this tournament was a good learning experience for some of our younger guys but we had enough older guys to push to at least the quarters. Look-out 2019 and onwards!

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Naph  
Years ago

Goulding - Hopefully Europe improves his defense to the point that you'd want him in the side. I don't think he makes the team if Patty is healthy.

Broekhoff - Stepped up in a big way and unless he regresses or has major injuries you'd think that he will be our designated 3&D guy for years to come.

Gibson - Wasn't terrible, but I still don't think he's a world class guard. Not everyone is a Delly fan, but the drop-off when he is off the floor hurt every time. We desperately need Exum to become a PG or at worst a combo-guard rather than being converted into a SG.

Ingles - Mainstay of the team. I hope we're looking to him and bayne for our veteran leadership sooner rather than later

Newley - I like him a lot more as a bench player than a starter. Great energy guy when he is on, but questionable decision making doesn't look like it will ever change. FT's!

Dellavedova - Far and away our best PG. I expect he'll only get better as he settles into being a pro. A year with James/Love/Irving is gonna be awesome for his development.

Bairstow - Had some good moments, but he looks like he's simply too physical at times. If he can reign that in could be a good contributor again in the future.

Exum - Good experience for him. But clearly not ready for the world stage just yet.

Baynes - Great tournament. Still doesn't come across as being very smart/wise, but is becoming very good at what he does well. Likely to be the mainstay of our frontcourt for some time on the strength of this tournament.

Andersen - He looks done. Probably needed his experience with all the young bigs (who else could we have selected) but he just looks old/slow out there. Ineffective on offense, and that is meant to be his strength.

Motum - High energy big like Bairstow. I think Bairstow is likely to provide more of what we will need going forward, but he's certainly still a chance with the extra range he provides.

Jawai - Better than I expected given his pre-tourney form. Would love to see what he can do when fully fit/healthy. His passing and patience in the post was a revelation. Don't remember seeing that before.

Lemanis - had some decent game plans for individual teams. But I don't think the offense uses players talents to their best effect. I'd like to see more pick-and-roll for Delly/Ingles. Run more plays for shooters (Broekhoff/Jingles). Like to see less of Baynes/Andersen/Bairstow/Motum catching the ball above the 3-point line with their back to the basket. I get that you're trying to move the defense, but particularly on Baynes/Bairstow all you're doing is burning your own shot-clock, as the defense stays home and our big waits for another guard to run around for the hand-off. How can we not defend the Pick and Roll any better? The sheer volume of uncontested layups where we were beaten on the perimeter and nobody rotated to challenge the ball was also frustrating. I get that some of that is bringing a team together, in a short time, but seriously.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Broekhoff and Goulding did there part on offence when called upon and baynes with his mindset and 'want' was by far our best player . Ingles was good in a few games and horrible in others. everyone one else was useless.

Next time round:
Next time round I'd like to see mills start at point with delly the backup and exum 3rd pg/3rd sg only if he has bulked up and improved his game. broekhoff and Goulding as the 1 and 2 sg's. Ingles, Newley and Simmons as the sf's. Bairstow and motum with more time at the NBA level will be the power forwards. Bogut and baynes as the centres.
Anderson gone. Jawai gone.

Starting 5 and depth rotation.
Mills/delly/exum
Broekhoff/Goulding
Ingles/Newley/Simmons
Bairstow/motum
Bought/baynes

Mills and exum playing 1 or 2
Ingles playing 2 or 3
Simmons playing 3 or 4
Baynes and Bairstow playing 4 or 5

Greenwood potential pg swap for an unimproved exum and drmic for Newley. Maric as the other centre with Baynes replacing a pf if he improves his mid range shooting.
Others I see that may get a lead up look in are Daniel Johnson, Venky jois mangok mathiang and chris Patton.

Makers, humphries, bolden, adel, vasljevic, white, mcveigh, mading, Malone and the like will get look ins well after 2016.

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GWB  
Years ago

David Anderson confirmed before the Worlds that this is his last shot. Thankfully

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The Dream  
Years ago

from a kiwi perspective , they the boomers tank this game aswell? or nah?

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George. W. Bush  
Years ago

In Rio we desperately need Patty and Bogut to be there. They are our 2 best players by far. Ingles is super talented but does go missing at times and looks lazy at times but still a terrific player.

Bogut, Baynes
Simmons, Bairstow
Ingles, Broekhoff
Patty, ?
Delly, Exum

Reply #492779 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

Great write up Naph. On the money IMO - could not have put it any better myself.

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GWB  
Years ago

I wouldn't guarantee Exum yet. I wouldn't put him in another major tourny team til he shows he is as advertised. He wasn't terrible but he didn't add any more then a lot of NBL guards would have

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Anonymous  
Years ago

To stop tanking FIBA should release Final 16 fixture after the final game of the prelim rounds.. that way no one will know who they play!

Reply #492782 | Report this post


Alpha  
Years ago

The basic problem is that we view everything in isolation - the Boomers will get nowhere if there is NO system to support them.

We should ask ourselves a question - how countries such as Lithuania and Serbia with populations smaller than ours have been capable of competing successfully at the highest international level for decades. And yes they miss some key players yet they are top 8.

We can keep bringing well known and good coaches to try to bring 12 individuals together in a short period of time, but is this the answer? What is required is a long term strategy that will ensure not only a medal in Rio (rather questionable) but every other WC and Olympics.

What also annoys me here is this constant reference to the NBA - this many NBA players, prospects - so how come other teams which don't have that many NBA players/prospects like us are successful???

We certainly have individual quality to match the opposition, but clearly we don't have a team.

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Jon  
Years ago

Yes, good posts from GWB, Macdub, and Naph here...

I think the hangover is made worse by not having gone out to a powerhouse... that's always a nice 'what if' you carry through the days before a Team USA match-up and people on this forum will know better than me how many times we've had that in the past in major tournaments...

It's also something that can be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for some of our players you get a kind of vicarious thrill for someone like Gibson to take on, I don't know, Steph Curry or Derrick Rose...

Similarly for those who are on the fringe of a contract there's also the kind of make-a-career moments that are possible where, say, Broekhoff or Ingles goes for 20 in a half and gets a Shane Heal/Anstey/Gaze type 10-day contract.

And there's the media/public spotlight of being part of a Team USA match-up... that said I did have to look at the list to pull out Curry and Rose as the players you'd really say (if you were Gibson showing YouTube clips to your grandchildren...) 'That's me scoring on Derrick Rose...

Anyway... like a lot of forums on the net about illnesses, talking to other sufferers helps! ha ha. Southern Hemisphere Basketball Addiction needs to be in DSM-V?

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GWB  
Years ago

Its about building a culture and I think we were well on our way with Goorjian and even Brett Brown, but I feel like it fell off when it went into Lemanis hands. Not even to hate on Lemanis, but there just wasn't the same continuation of dogged defensively minded Boomers. I would love to see Goorjian back for another 4 year stint.. take us to rio and then the next worlds.

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D  
Years ago

Bogut is so injury prone, its best not to get excited and assume he will play, its a long shot, but it would be great to have him in rio, obviously he provides rim protection and becomes they defensive anchor

I agree with GWB, we did well with this group, lots of positives, people need to get over the angola thing, all good teams do it, came within 1 point in the end

baynes and ingles our best. Broekhoff was great from 3, I take my medicine with him, great selection in the end. However, I really thought exum would do a little more, he needs time. Lets hope he has something to offer by 2016

anderson gone, bogut and maric for him. I know people hate on maric, but he has the size and physicality, good bench big.

Simmons yes, as a backup 3/4, needs to grow up

As always what needed is that the team plays together a bit to develop some chemistry, look at spain, those guys are a team

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Jon  
Years ago

Agreeed on the structure of the tourament to that anonymous poster- was there similar ducks and drakes played on the side of the draw to avoid Spain crossover?

Simply doing a live draw (lotto balls etc) of the final 16 on the rest day would seem to be the simplest way to do it.

Another thing that I'd like to hear from people about is pool matches- it didn't seem like World Basketball really runs 24 teams deep... I know there's conferences etc... but it seems like a missed opportunity not to get more matches between the in-form 16 rather than go to knockout... thoughts?

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Arthur Deigh  
Years ago

Turkey miss the 3, or Australia get that last basket, we don't have this thread. (at least, not yet).

Reply #492792 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Yes but, they did. We have had this problem with closing out big games for a very long time now. It is one of the differences between us and a medal.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The biggest problem is mentality. If you don't give, you don't get!

Baynes gave his all and got.

Mills gives his all every time and gets rewarded for it.

Ingles may be crafty on offence but he gives nothing on defense.

Delly was clearly not his usual give it all self. I'd say they wanted him to play with more poise but that's not his game.

A team based on will is much better than one on potential.

Eg. Although not the best team on paper, you know they are going to give you there all under the right coach. Obviously there not the best players for the position but as an example of a team that works hard. Damian Martin is a player is a great example.

Team eg
Pg Delly 6'4 cavs
Sg Mills 6'0 spurs
Sf jois 6'8 east Washington (more of a power forward)
Pf Patton 6'10 uc riverside (more of centre)
C baynes 6'10 spurs

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Damn, a pretty harsh week for Aussie basketball - Getting shit for tanking, losing to Turkey and possibly losing two of our best young prospects ( Maker to Canada and alienating Simmons with the tank).

Hopefully Australian basketball isn't tainted by the tank against Angola. With Mills, Bogut (hopefully) and some of the young guns hopefully we can do better in Rio.

My Rio team -

Bogut/Baynes/Maker
Bairstow/Motum
Simmons/Ingles/Broekhoff
Mills/Goulding
Exum/Delly

This is based on a prediction that Simmons is a beast by then and Exum is a good NBA player.

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Very Old  
Years ago

ALPHA
" how countries such as Lithuania and Serbia with populations smaller than ours have been capable of competing successfully at the highest international level for decades. And yes they miss some key players yet they are top 8."

I can answer this question. Having actually been in a conference room with the national basketball federation of both these countries ( al though a few years ago now and at separate times) neither understand the relevance of the question " how do you get your players to choose basketball" - they simply had NFI what this question was about. The Lithos were world champions in basketball pre [email protected] ( the 1939-1945 one).

If every AFL , Rugby and soccer player Australia has ever produced had their first preference in junior sport as basketball , then we would be almost unstoppable ( and lets put Netball in there as well)

There are parts of the old Yugoslavia where basketball is and was well above soccer in popularity and in financial backing.

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Steven  
Years ago

My Rio team

Dellavedova/Exum/?
Mills/Broekhoff
Ingles/Simmons
Bairstow/Motum/?
Bogut/Baynes

The 11th and 12th spots aren't set in stone need one more guard and one more forward.
Baynes is too good to be a backup but there is no guarantee that Bogut will be there. If he worked more on his mid range game he could start at power forward imo.

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Lance_Uppercut  
Years ago

When you are struggling to put points up as the Boomers were against Turkey, why not try a line up change of players who have shown an ability to score? a-la Motum and Goulding?

Boomers played half-court offense with too-many passive players that rarely looked like they had any idea how to

Delly looks good when he plays alongside a fast PG that can penetrate, without that (as in this tournament) it looks really slow in a half court game, rarely drawing other players in to kick out to a shooter.

Andersen showed in the pre-tournament that he is limited offensively and defensively as was known and should have played limited mins.

Motum and Bairstow should have been getting the mins as they looked better than Andersen and they are going to be the 4 men in future tournaments.

Ingles defence is like James Harden at times, but this gets routinely overlooked for games he shows up and decides to play offensively. Doesn't show offensively enough.


Can't see Baynes as an NBA starter, just too many brain snaps and not willing or capable as a shot blocker and poor rebounder for his size.Should be getting more mins than he gets ATM for Spurs though.

I am glad Exum got to experience a major competition but think it was a waste to give him that many mins because he is clearly not ready and that showed at the pre-tournament stage. His mins should have gone to Goulding or Gibson.

I have to question Lemanis going forward as a coach, incapable of figuring out how to guard----Pick n Roll--apparently Euroteams use this.

Ben Simmons is 17/18 -his comments on social media probably reflect his age and that he is frustrated watching a team of players who are talented not play their strengths enough. There was enough talent on the floor to win against Turkey but that didn't happen.

Upon reflection, playing the Dominican Republic and then watching the Boomers come up against Team USA would have been more entertaining than watching them lose to Turkey or even Lithuania if they advanced.

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Very Old  
Years ago

Note: I'm not saying this to indicate we should give up, I'm say this to point out that the AIS basketball program, and the subsequent NITC system, almost single-handely initiated by Adrian Hurley decades ago, has done a job that is actually better than what those basketball-centric countries had - which is why they were asking US about how WE ( AUS) developed such outstanding talent starting from 15 years ago.

We should be very proud but not complacent about what the junior player development programs and the coaching programs in Aust have achieved over the last 30 years

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chris  
Years ago

Gosh I think the Boomers had a enough talent to beat Turkey. Surprised me that they didnt. Boomers should have done better than 12th in my eyes.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Maker is no centre. Even when he puts on more size he would be best suited to the power forward position.

The front court of the future is basically already set in stone.
All super tall
All super strong
All super quick
All good defenders
All good rebounders
All good shot blockers
All good shooters
All have good offensive game

Sf Simmons 6'10
Pf maker 7'1
C humphries 7'0

Reply #492810 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

I think the team showed potential and the potential came together for ONE game against Lithuania. Other than that, it was a messy grab bag of ups and downs for the Boomers. Consistently a lot better than the minnows, and scratching at the ankles of the power houses.

There were some glaring weaknesses however, inability to defend the pick and roll, lack of offensive identity, lack of rim protector among them.

These are the areas that will need improving, as I am sure, for the most part, this will be a very similar team to the one that plays in Rio in two years time.

I think Broekhoff may have booked his Rio ticket as a spot up shooter, Baynes definitely has, the usual locks have, and there may be 3 or 4 positions open to some of these young guns (but I would only add people who bring INSTANT impact)

I like the fact that at times Lemanis shows what Brett Brown and Brian Goorjian came to know over time, that the Australian team can't play like Euro teams, we have to play OUR way, of fast paced offence and full court defence.. however, something went wrong in execution and the only time it really clicked was against Lithuania.

As for Lemanis... I would only replace him if we can do so with someone who has international ezperience. I would be calling Brian Goorjian right this very minute.

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Jon  
Years ago

Some great comments here- man I love Basketball... it's a shame that the contact and concussion sports have a stranglehold on Australians! Apologies for cross posting but I want a basketball book to read- any suggestions?

Cheers in advance.

Reply #492813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree with one of the Anonymous' above. We have to start looking at the future.

Simmons, Maker and Humphries are the future of this team. Even if Exum plays a bit more to his potential, those 3 front-court guys are the core of this Boomers team in the future

Reply #492815 | Report this post


T  
Years ago

Hey Jon,

You may have read it already but my boys gifted me a copy of Roland Lazenby's : Michael Jordan - The Life for Fathers Day. Brilliant read.

Reply #492817 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Maker is no centre. Even when he puts on more size he would be best suited to the power forward position."

True, brain fart on my behalf. I'd put him behind Bairstow and Motum.

And No, let's not go to Goorjan. We don't want our national team to turn into the Sydney Kings again like it was when he was coaching.

Reply #492818 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Did someone say Chris Patton for the Boomers?? And Venky Jois.

Venky and outside chance, but Patton!! ... Must be someone from Dandenong.

Reply #492819 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glass half full:

The Boomers beat powerhouse Lithuania, a team with a couple of NBA role players and a whole team full of experienced, seasoned pros who have played in the top European competitions. The Boomers were missing Mills and Bogut- Mills especially would have improved this team's offense out of sight.

Glass half empty:

We were gifted an easy pool and should have made the Quarter finals, at least. Even without Mills and Bogut. We tanked.

Where to now:

The core of the team is solid and will ensure the Boomers are competitive at international level for many years to come. By core I refer to Delly at point, Baynes in the post and Ingles on the wing.

With some extra speed and flair to be contributed by a developing Exum and Mills, and role players like Broekhoff, Motum and Bairstow being very young and due to improve, the Boomers are well placed to hunt for a medal at Rio and should have a bright future across the next 2-3 major tournaments after that, at least.

Reply #492820 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Oh and don't forget the real young guys like Simmons and Thon Maker if we're looking 5 years or more ahead (2019 world cup and beyond).

Reply #492821 | Report this post


Ganymede 86  
Years ago

Bevo?

Reply #492823 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Jon and Anon - re tournament structure. If you think more about that notion (release final 16 structure after qualification games are completed), it needs more than just doing that. If you still have 4th v 1st and 3rd v 2nd cross-overs, then everyone's going to try to miss 2nd and 4th in every pool. That makes the problem worse. So it needs more structural change.

e.g., start with 32 teams and play knockout through to the finals. No qualification rounds. You lose, you're out.

e.g., start with 4 pools of 6 and play qualifiers as this time. Take top three from each pool into 2 pools of 6, carrying qualifying results with them (i.e., win/loss and points for/against the other two qualifiers from your pool), then play three more games in the second round. Top 2 of each pool at end of second round go to the semi finals, 3rd & 4th from each pool play for 5-8, remaining 2 in each pool play for 9-12.

e.g., [ADD YOUR OWN IDEA HERE]

The basic principle is to make a team's every game important to its final tournament result. Then you aim to balance the impact of one bad game with the risk of tanking and playing for lesser point splits.

Reply #492825 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

I think another issue (which NZ also has) is the lack of international basketball.

I mentioned above that you need experience at the international level, which comes from exposure.

Always hard for Aus and NZ teams to not see each other for a couple of years, then come together for a couple of weeks and be expected to be the finest oiled machine around.

Even just one series here or there can help, but naturally I understand it comes down to $ which neither side has.

The funding scheme in NZ makes it very hard - would say Australia is similar.

We can't get the best results because we don't have the $ resources. So we are stuck in a constant rut. Need the $ to get a placing, but because we can't get the $ prior we can't get the placing and then we can't get funding. Vicious cycle.

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Jon  
Years ago

thanks T will grab a copy!

Cheers

Hey Jon,

You may have read it already but my boys gifted me a copy of Roland Lazenby's : Michael Jordan - The Life for Fathers Day. Brilliant read.

Reply #492828 | Report this post


Naph  
Years ago

Players age @Rio 2016 in brackets

==Incumbent== (+Mills +Bogut -Goulding)
PG: Delly(26) / Exum(21) / Gibson(29)
SG: Mills(28) / Newley(31)
SF: Ingles(28) / Broekhoff(26)
PF: Bairstow(25) / Motum(25)
C_: Bogut(32) / Baynes(29) / Jawai(29)

Yeah, I'm still a Bogut optimist. Bubbles didn't earn/get-the-opportunity to cement his spot.

Strongest locks
Mills, Bogut, Ingles, Baynes, Delly

Very likely
Broekhoff, Exum, Newley, Bairstow/Motum (not sure there is room for both)

Most Vulnerable
loser of Bairstow/Motum, Jawai, Gibson, Goulding

==Extended Squad in 2014==
Damian Martin(32) PG
Chris Goulding(27) SG
Lucas Walker(32) SF
Mark Worthington(33) SF/PF
Angus Brandt(26) C

==Extended Squad in 2012==
Hugh Greenwood(24) PG?/SG
Anthony Drmic(24) SG
Anatoly Bose(28) SG - potentially playing for Kazakhstan?
Peter Crawford(37) SG
Mitch Creek(24) SF
Jesse Wagstaff(30) SF
Daniel Kickert(33) SF/PF
Matthew Nielsen(37) PF - retired
Matt Knight(31) PF/C - unlikely (injuries)
AJ Ogilvy(28) C
Julian Khazzouh(30) C - committed to Lebanon
Aleks Maric(32) C

==Highly Touted Juniors==
Jonah Bolden(20) PF (2014 #25 Scout, #32 Rivals, #69 ESPN)
Ben Simmons(20) SF/PF (2015 #1 Rivals, #2 ESPN, #2 Scout)
Deng Adel(20) SF (2015 #81 ESPN)
Thon Maker(19) PF (2016 #1 ESPN, #1 Scout, #1 Rivals)
Isaac Humphries(18) C (U/16 Standout)

Reply #492830 | Report this post


Jon  
Years ago

thanks T will grab a copy!

Cheers

Hey Jon,

You may have read it already but my boys gifted me a copy of Roland Lazenby's : Michael Jordan - The Life for Fathers Day. Brilliant read.

Reply #492831 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What's wrong with Patton? The dudes super strong, good around the basket, good rebounder and unlike Barstow has good athleticism and is quick in transition. Bairstow is 1 inch shorter but 5 pounds heavier. Major difference is that Barstow has a mid range shot and has a better free throw percentage.

Reply #492835 | Report this post


Alpha  
Years ago

@Very old
"There are parts of the old Yugoslavia where basketball is and was well above soccer in popularity and in financial backing."


Actually I lived and played in Europe for long so what you are saying is not correct for Ex-Yugoslavia. Soccer has, is and will always be their number 1 sport and they will sink so much money into it and will produce results only sporadically ie. Croatia several years ago.

On the other hand, all these countries are really good in basketball - no, they don't win medals all the time because the competition is so fierce but they are always close to the top.

The question I raised is very much a figure of speech. Look at the junior teams of these countries, they all are doing well. Australian U17 and U19 teams have been really great in the past, especially last 6 years, so why do we fail after???

Reply #492836 | Report this post


Lance_Uppercut  
Years ago

Rio Line-up
Mills/Delly/Exum
Broekhoff/Goulding
Ingles/Newley/Simmons
Bairstow/Motum
Bogut/Baynes

I agree with Naph, creating plays that utilise players strengths (Bairstow and Motum very good pick n pop players but rarely ran pick n pop plays for them) and create plays for the shooters of Broekhoff, Goulding and Ingles. Whats the points in having a great shooting percantage if you aren't utilising it? I routinely saw teams able to get elbow/free throw line jump shots for PF or SGs boomers were incapable of this except against Angola.

Reply #492840 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

2020 lots of good players to choose from... Under 30

In the mix.

Exum/delly/white/dufelmeier/greenwood
Mills/adel/drmic/vasljevic/Wilson
Simmons/bolden/mcveigh/cooks/jois
Maker/m.maker/mading/mathiang
Humphries/Malone/landale/Patton/ froling/Molloy Leigh/perry

Reply #492841 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Bogut aint playing for the Boomers anytime now or in the future

Reply #492842 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

As Macdub pointed out, Australia and NZ's problems stem from a lack of regular, tough, international competition. Playing 2 games Australia vs NZ every other years is just not enough.

That's why the new FIBA qualification system for the 2019 World Cup will be a major benefit for the 2 Oceania powers. Loads of H & A games to qualify and a chance to build a culture, an identity and more importantly, experience and systems.

Reply #492843 | Report this post


Jez  
Years ago

Overall I think we did ok, bar the Angola game. Declaring our medal aspirations may have given the impression we were a legitimate medal round team rather than an on-the-cusp team with a few holes in the lineup. With some future additions there's plenty to be optimistic about though.

There's been a lot of fair criticism of Lemanis's half court offence. But I think it would have looked a lot better if we had guards who could create for themselves like Preldzic and Guler did for Turkey. Pocius and Seibutus for Lithuania are others who spring to mind. Players who are fluid with the ball in hand, either pulling up or getting to the basket.

We don't really have that. It isn't really Dellavedova's game, and isn't (yet) Exum's game. Ingles is ok, as a wing player, but probably lacks that change of speed to be a constant threat as a shot creator.

Reply #492851 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Yeah I don't think Lemanis is good enough, especially on the defensive end. We were much better on the offensive end this time around, but still looked very average as opposed to being very below average. He has to go. But he won't because BA won't want to make a hard decision.

Reply #492855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He won't go because most Boomers coaches are given deals for an Olympiad (4 years) so safe to assume he's contracted until the end of the 2016 Olympics.

Reply #492858 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

Interested to know who would you hire as coach Mick??

Obviously needs to be someone who is available/affordable to BA.

I thought losing Brett Brown was a big loss, but cant blame him as he decided to focus on the NBA. But yea would definitely love to still have him involved.

I wouldnt go back to Gorjian, he had his fair go imo, did ok but not awesome results either. Also never been a fan of his style, he has got results in the NBL to a point, but given the talent he had at his disposal at all times its not like he over acheived, i rate Geordie heaps higher than Goorj, he hasnt got the Championships/Grand Finals Goorj has but he also has never had the stacked teams Goorj had.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

Reply #492861 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

sorry got to blame Lemanis - out coached at this level, boomers ran a lot of the same plays over and over again, we were easy to scout by the final 16

I don't agree with his rotations and at times we seemed to lose momentum in almost all the games

Exum perhaps was a gamble that did not pay off

I'm still not sure why goulding didn't get at least some burn during games as I think his defense was better than exum.

Bevo perhaps an option if sticking with an australian coach moving forward

or perhaps we should be looking to an EX nba coach to take the team to the next level ?

Reply #492865 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think over the tournament our defence was pretty solid, our interior defence was very good. Were we lacked in defence was on the perimeter. We couldn't contain the guards in the better teams we played; they got easy penetration which resulted in kick outs and easy 3's.

In offence I thought our interior offence was good, the big guys played well, aggressive looking to score hard and fast. But we lacked players that could penetrate and draw defenders from the perimeter therefore the number of 3pt we shot for the tournament were very low. For large parts of games we were running the shell drill passing from wing to top to wing hoping a defender would make a mistake then forcing something.

Overall the team’s foot speed was an issue, not enough speed especially at the perimeter.

Reply #492882 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree, problem was the quality of our guards.

Delly was a good at the 1 spot, Ingles was good at the 3 spot. Broekhoff was good as a first timer but not elite. But we did not have a world class 2 guard. Someone who could create their own shot. Exum was a big failure 2.7ppg. Goulding was a failure 1.8ppg but did not really get a chance play? Newley struggled in most games 6.5 ppg?

Australia needed a 2 guard who could score 15+ ppg ever game.

Reply #492889 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

That's where Mills was sorely missed he would have got around 20ppg.
The other weakness was our 4 spot. Bairstow and Motum will be better come Rio but Andersen was a huge disappointment.

Reply #492891 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Can't call Goulding a failure when he didn';t get minutes.

Chris Goulding WAS our world class 2 man, UNUSED...

Brett Maher part 2.

Reply #492895 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What was strange was Goulding scoring a team-high 22 points in our last group stage game and then not even getting any court time today.

With his fearlessness which has been a problem for the Boomers for a decade I would've much rather seen him get Newley's minutes.

Reply #492897 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

Posted this in the game thread but it is more appropriate to put in here.

So disappointing watching the ending and it lingers for a while clouding ones thought. Now that I have settled a little the truth of the matter is that this relatively young and inexperienced team with a rookie coach at international level was within a few made free throws or one missed contested 3 pointer at the death of a quarter final berth.

If either of those (far more likely statistically)circumstances occurred I think the team and coaching staff would be getting decent wraps right about now from us the punters.

Lemanis may be getting a bit of flack right now and I will admit I am still not sold on him. Looking at the team and the available talent for the championships it becomes pretty obvious that the coaching staff are working with decent mid level talent but mid level talent seriously lacking in special attributes. The only player in the team who can be considered to have a outstanding talent in one area would be Broekhoff as a shooter. Most of the rest are solid all round players which is a credit to our development pathways.

Now let's look at what this team lacks at present. We don't have a guard who can blow by his opponent and get to the rim. Exum may be this player but not yet. Ingles probably the best we have at present.

We are not even close to having any lock down defenders. Gibson is as good as it gets for us in the back court and there is nothing resembling one in the front court. We also have no shot blockers so is it any wonder that with no good on ball defensive players and no shot blockers we struggle to defend the P&R or protect the rim. Maybe Andrej's defensive system did well to hide these deficiencies and we had to give up certain things.

Ingles is about the only player capable of creating their own shot (Goulding maybe but he never hit the court).

So while Lemanis has copped a bit maybe he has done well to get this core of solid players as far as they got. Just think Aron Baynes was/is our star player. No criticism but would you really expect a team with Baynes as you number one gun to challenge at a WC.

The more I think about now that my BP and heart rate have returned to more normal levels the more I thing we probably overachieved and Lemanis did a serviceable job by getting that W against Lithuania.

Mills, Bogut, and hopefully a rapidly developing Exum, Simmons and Goulding (who should have bypassed Newley in two years and can knock down free throws)should fill some of those holes. Would very much like to see Exum and Simmons turn out to be great defenders.

There is plenty to look forward to.

Reply #492900 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Olympics lineup:

Mills/Delly/Exum
Delly/Exum/Goulding
Ingles/Goulding/Broekhoff
Baynes/Bairstow/Simmons/Motum
Bogut/Baynes/Motum

That is a nasty lineup.

Reply #492904 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Goulding was and is a beast. Kid is a weapon on offence. He should have been utilised as a spark off the bench. Could see him in the nba.

Reply #492906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Stupid Australians go home!!! You lost against Angola to avoid USA. HAHAHA, JUSTICE !!!!!!!!!!! You lost against Slovenia, Angola, Turkey. You are less than zero! GO SLOVENIA!!!

Reply #492913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Slovenia are getting knocked out of the QF anyway, no soup for them either.

Reply #492914 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Slovenia is much better team. You are nothing! Unfair calculating trash.

Reply #492924 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Stupid Australians go home!!! You lost against Angola to avoid USA. HAHAHA, JUSTICE !!!!!!!!!!! You lost against Slovenia, Angola, Turkey. You are less than zero! GO SLOVENIA!!!

Reply #492925 | Report this post


dann37  
Years ago

Reading some international and european forums, ppl lost all respect and are making fun of us, honestly we deserved this... Dragic wrote "3+5=7 somebody miscalculated" and "Kangaroos really avoided USA: barcelona-singapur-sidney"....

Reply #492941 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Years ago

Lots of great comments here. Just picking up on a few of them

- many thanks to ABC for showing the games, but please ditch Double Drivel. Santo and Sam Pang were great; these guys weren't

- once again we were hyped up unrealistically. Having bench or borderline NBA players doesn't make us automatic contenders

- I'm excited about our future prospects

- I admit I bucketed Baynes before we started playing, and was proven wrong. I loved Motum and Broekhoff and Bubbles because they made things happen. As many posters have said, we need guys who can create instead of passengers who need plays to set them up

- I cannot believe that anyone has an excuse for a FT percentage less than 80. It's the simplest shot there is, FFS

- Long ago, I was told the reason why Lithuania and Yugoslavia were so good was because they shot baskets 3 hours a day minimum. The focus on trying to turn athletes into good shooters at the AIS is a big fail for me. We went into the WC with only two recognised shooters. Dumb dumb dumb. Looking forward to better shooting in our future teams.

- I like the idea of the first round of pools followed by another round of pools and then the top two from each play for the medals. Only consistent excellence should get rewarded with a medal

- keep Lemanis, or go all out for a Guus Hiddink kind of profile for the coaching gig. Never get Goorj again.

- we should have taken a stud defender along

Once again, we end up around 9th in the world. Sigh.

Reply #492956 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Does anyone know where Mick Downer was?

Reply #492997 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would cotter make a good boomers coach?

Brondello would be great for the opals.....

Reply #493010 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Alpha

The question I raised is very much a figure of speech. Look at the junior teams of these countries, they all are doing well. Australian U17 and U19 teams have been really great in the past, especially last 6 years, so why do we fail after???"


The un17 and 19 women are usually less successful to the men, yet the opals clearly outshine the boomers in the medals department, that's another question that needs answering, though I suspect under Joyce this will now come to an end also. So for me I'd say selection seems to be the key factor, how many of those who played in the un17/19 Aus teams actually carry over into the boomers and opals squads?

Reply #493048 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Didn't lemanis only have a two yr part time whilst Joyce got the 4 yr full time gig at AIS. If this is the case I would say they will look to move him on, as part of the criteria was they had to medal to get funding from what I heard

Reply #493049 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah beveridge might fit the bill.
Definately need to get brondello coaching the opals with timms as the assistant.

Reply #493066 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

From now one let's be tough about players not wanting to suit up for Aus. Imagine if at least Mills was on the team. Enough of this caving in to the demands of players, at that rate we will never medal as the 5-7 NBA players we have now will end up opting out next time around!

Reply #493135 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Delly, Broekhoff and Brock Motum were all a part of the Aussie Men's U19 World Champs team in 2009, finished fourth so some of them are coming through...

Cody Ellis, Hugh Greenwood, Mitchell Young and Jason Cadee were on that same team... (only names that I still recognise as being around NBL/Boomers)

Reply #493314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

We suffered from substandard coaching at this years worlds. Goorjian and Brown were excellent, both nba level coaches. Then they pick an nbl guy???

I say bring back Goorjian, or sign another international or nba level coach that runs a defensive and physical game style.. Jeff Van Gundy for example would be an excellent coach for Australia

Reply #495906 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Wasn't Goorjian an NBL guy at the time?

Reply #495914 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Rio team:
Mills 6'0/delly 6'4/Exum 6'6 or greenwood 6'3
broekhoff 6'7/Goulding 6'4 or drmic 6'6
Ingles 6'8/Simmons 6'10
Motum 6'10/Bairstow 6'10/Humphries 7'0 or maker 7'1
Bogut 7'0/Baynes 6'10

Mills 1 or 2
Exum if improved 1 or 2
Ingles 2 or 3
Simmons 3 or 4
Bairstow 4 or 5
Baynes 4 or 5

Reply #495921 | Report this post


ESnowden  
Years ago

This is a long term tier 1 team with Ben Simmons, Thon Maker, and Jonah Belden. These guys and Exum can be very good. An increasing percentage of NBA players have parents who played professional basketball. The guys joining the (Aussie) team soon had parents who loved the country so much that they relocated permanently.

Canada will also be formidable indefinitely with its elite Toronto-based youngsters. USA will have some tough fights in the next two plus Olympic cycles if the NBA continues to allow its players to compete which is actually unclear..

Reply #497821 | Report this post


Rob  
Years ago

It is true, Goorjian was an nbl guy at the time but he was receiving huge kudos in Europe (fiba ran articles about him numerous times) and the U.S. but no love in Australia until much later when his results made him impossible to ignore.

Goorjian was disliked as a noisy yank until it became obvious that he is light years ahead of any other coach in this country. If I recall rightly we just suffered an embarrassing series loss to NZ under Smyth and we were looking totally shambolic, at this point BA figured they needed Goorjian- and to think that they would beat Lithuana by the time he was done- amazing.
Imagine what he would do with this squad loaded with nba players!

Reply #502754 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

I think Basketball Australia need to make a call to Goorjian. Nothing that Lemanis did instilled any confidence in me.

Reply #502757 | Report this post




 

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