Curtley
Years ago

NBL not keen on Tasmanian team

Just saw this on Twitter. Personally I'm surprised it's been completely ruled out but it's understandable that the larger markets take greater priority.

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/2826873/states-nbl-dream-dashed/?utm_content=bufferaa765&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

I think there could be a number of factors at play here. There was an interview recently (I think it was the PER-ADL game) where an NBL rep (?) spoke about the NBL future direction and mentioned Asia. The expansion into Singapore did not work and the I cringe a little bit if the NBL are planning teams out of Asia. The A-League does well to link itself with Asia due to the FIFA grouping and it works well, so the NBL could align itself along those lines if the deal was right. Who knows, The NBL might be giving priority to future NZ clubs over certain other teams to make it more of an Australasian feel.

An AFL club has the luxury of marketing its product with attendance of an average of 40,000 compared to an average of 4,000 to an NBL game. Budget wise, they can spread costs over more bodies. An operating budget to attendance ratio would be say $500/head vs say $750/head. With a Tassie NBL team, it needs to be well attended and well supported by businesses. The best businesses are ones with FMCG products as these can market to consumers. Nyrstar in Hobart or BHP Bliliton at Bell Bay are unlikely to sponsor. Tassel may be interested, or alternatively a National product is required. One which gets coverage on FTA TV. If the proposal had a lot of support from larger Tassie businesses, then it would be looked on favourably I would suggest.

Apart from cricket, I don't think Tasmania has any national teams (maybe field hockey) and I think that speaks volumes. It either means there is a massive opportunity for a team to get up and show some Tassie pride, or else there is a fundamental flaw with the market that other sports recognise and that needs to be addressed prior to a NBL team getting up.

When you cut to the chase, the difference between a lot of sports and basketball is that basketball is an indoor sport. I think that gets overlooked a lot of the time when it comes to the NBL. The marketing and operation of an indoor sport is very different to an outdoor sport.

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Train  
Years ago

Good points Jack, it does kind of make you wonder why the AFL and NRL haven't flirted with placing teams in Tassie.

Reply #510611 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tasmania is essentially an AFL state already. 2 teams have a presence there and they are football made so they won't be converting anyone like they are truing to do in Brisbane and the Gold Coast. The AFL already own the market so no need to go there.

Reply #510631 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

The fundamental problem in Tassie is not just that its population is so small, but it is so spread out.
Tas has a population of around 500k, but only 200k live in Hobart, 100k in Launceston, and the rest spread around the place. A Team based in Hobart won't necessarily get full support.

Reply #510643 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

The AFL teams only go to play in Tassie because the state government tip in money via sponsorship to both North Melb & Hawthorn.

Hawthorn - Tassie Tourism is Naming rights sponsor

North Melb - Hobart City Council/Spirit of Tassie

Otherwise they wouldn't play down in Tassie as it is effectively an AFL state anyway.


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Anonymous  
Years ago

Despite the small population it could work in Hobart. The Hurricanes have shown there are people prepared to get behind sport here. As stated before the only reason there is no AFL club here is because the AFL constantly reject the idea in favour of trying to enter non traditional markets.
The biggest issue with basketball in Tas is the inability to allow the proposal to be based in Hobsrt. By all reports the recent proposal was very close to getting up and viable but involved the rediculous concept of having to play home games all over the state. Like it or not the Derwent Entertainment Centre is the only venue in the state capable of holding a crowd big enough to justify the cost of putting an NBL game on.
But as soon as a bid is raised there is a chorus of bleating from all over the state wanting a slice of the pie. Unfortunately Tassie supporters in general see a two hour drive to a game as impossible. I have been to AFL games in Melbourne where it has taken almost that long to get out of the car park to start heading home.
For some reason there is always pathetic bickering between North and South and a constant bitching from the little towns on the north west coast where they believe they have a basketball league so far supperiour to the rest that everything should suit them. They live in the past and would not even enter teams in the recent and new State League to test out their true standing in fear of finding out that without paid imports and drive in players from other areas they have very little. (But that's another argument to have).
The problem here and with basketball in general I suppose is that as an indoor sport it tends to be centred around venues involving a hand full of teams and becomes very insular with nobody looking at the bigger picture. Those involved in the recent bid should be applauded and consoled for having their time waisted if this expansion goes away.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Dazz, 200k is more than Townsville or Cairns. Wollongong is listed as 290k.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The politics of the state make it almost impossible to have a team there that would garner the whole states support. The three regions - North, South and North-West - cannot agree on anything and are all ultra-parochial. North and North-West would not support a "Hobart" team. It's quite funny when you have to deal with Tasmanian basketball people.

Reply #510673 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think expansion into smaller markets like Tassie only works where you have a TV network wanting more content and willing to pay for it. Otherwise I don't see that it adds much to the league.

Reply #510676 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

No extra eyeballs by having a team in Tassie...all your doing is replacing one broke team (Crocs) with another soon to be broke team in Tassie!

Reply #510681 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

But Brisbane aren't broke yet.

Reply #510683 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

sorry and Brissy soon to be broke*

(Plus Adelaide on league life support)

Reply #510685 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Tassie bid was looking healthy with some serious backers but I immagine having the NBL sitting on their hands now will see the end of it.

Reply #510686 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The NBL stopped the expansion into smaller venues some time ago.

Reply #510691 | Report this post


shayno  
Years ago

The problem was that no one in tassie is going to drive nearly 4hrs to see a game.

U name me another state where people do that?

You can't catch a train in tas

Reply #510707 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No need to drive 4 hours at all. Games in ltn and Ulv would be no more than going anywhere else in oz. HBt the same. The only time you would do that is if you want to all games played.

Reply #510714 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

People drive from other areas to see the Hurricanes play. Put it where 50% of the population can reach it easily (Hobart) and offer a good product market it properly and the die hard supporters will make the effort. Too much effort goes in to appeasing the while state which makes it go nowhere.

Reply #510718 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

Actually the reason Hawthorn chose to play in Launceston is because it's geographically closer to a larger population not including Hobart. Hobart is quite isolated. If there was an AIS team that played home games all over the place that would gauge the places that could support NBL teams long term - e.g. games in Tasmania, Newcastle, Canberra, Albury (v Vic clubs), Darwin, Gold Coast (v Brisbane). 1-4 games at each venue per season isn't that unreasonable and it's something no other sports have the ability to do.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Launceston might be closer to a Melbourne clubs main support base but for the other teams Launceston/Hobart would make little difference.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I have never heard so much crap Curtley. North Melbourne are happy to play in the isolated Hobart.
Try getting to Albury. Drive from Melbourne? You do know that you have to get a regional expensive airline to get fly anywhere.
The Bandits drive to Melbourne FFS.
Newie? Drive up the hwy, Gong too.
You also don't seem to realise that the travel component is still equalised across the League so why does it matter?
I am constantly amazed at the supposed knowledge of people here who get it so wrong.

Reply #510790 | Report this post


fred  
Years ago

We regularly went to the Devils NBL games & still get to quite a few SEABL games. If the NBL are going to play silly buggers again, then stuff the basketball. I'll ditch it altogether. If they cant see outside their office window in Melbourne, then that'll be it for us.

Reply #510903 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

^^ AFL teams require a larger supporter base than NBL teams, hence the fact that there have been numerous places (too many to name) that have supported NBL teams that don't have populations over a million. Also I don't know if you noticed but AFL is much more popular than basketball in Australia.

Reply #510905 | Report this post


Curtley  
Years ago

^^ AFL teams require a larger supporter base than NBL teams, hence the fact that there have been numerous places (too many to name) that have supported NBL teams that don't have populations over a million. Also I don't know if you noticed but AFL is much more popular than basketball in Australia.

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Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

@Curtley....the AFL teams only bother with Tassie due tot he funding/money they receive from government...its a commercial decision nothing to do with the fans at all.

Lets be frank the minute Tasmania stop sponsoring Hawthorn & North Melbourne they won't play games in Tassie.



Reply #510913 | Report this post


jodiechrist  
Years ago

It seems foolish to pass up the Tassie opportunity - there's enough of a population to warrant a team (especially as compared to other existing nbl markets), and also, Tassie's a pretty parochial supporter base, with a lot of kids moving to the mainland in their twenties - meaning that their away games are likely to attract Tasmanians living away from home as well. That's something that the Syd/Melb/Bris markets don't really offer compared to the smaller clubs. Either way, the league's pretty stagnant sitting at 8. Teams need to start coming from somewhere or the league's going to keep on sinking.

Reply #510917 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tasmanian Anthony Stewart comments on the NBL's backflip.
http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/anthony-stewart-disappointed-at-new-focus-for-nbl-expansion/story-fnj4f7g3-1227192392654

Reply #510925 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So Stewart blames the league for all the issues, but then finally admits he hasn't even got his ducks in a row due to a communication breakdown with his co-bidder. I'd say the NBL dodged a bullet there.

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swish  
Years ago

Professional sports / entertainment is all about business really. Sure it start with players wanting to test themselves and play againt the best from other centres but then the cost comes in and they won't play unless they get paid. As soon as players want payment everybody realises they also want payment, from the coach to the bloke who opens the stadium. So in the end the league might want a team in every town but it can't happen. Not becasue the league is no good, but because someone has to pay the bills.
Finaicial backers are not usually loking to give there moneyy away. They usually expect some type of return, either direct or indirect. Fans need to put their hand in their pocket to support the teams and to support thie sponsors.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The ducks were in a row and Stewart took a back step to allow former NBA player Randy Livingston to run the show and finish the business plan. Seems strange to me that since that situation occurred the wheels have now fallen off.
Someone with all of Livingston's connections world wide cant get the job done. A few Mill a year would be chicken feed to his best mate David Walsh.

Reply #510978 | Report this post


shayno  
Years ago

My point was that tassie people are not going to drive from Hobart to Devonport say after a night game.

In vic u can just catch a train and make it back quick. In tas you would have to stay the night and go back the next day.

And you aren't going to do that just to see adam gibson are you?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You can only flog a dead horse for so long before you give up. They all have to make a living and once you realise that the thing you were volunteering to help get going just attracts back stabbers and negativity, why keep chasing the moving goal posts. The time and energy of all involved could have benefitted Tasmanian basketball at any level. Now the NBL hollow promises have only resulted in negative media coverage dragging down the sport in the public eye.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

They struggle enough running a SEABL program so the NBL return was always a pipe dream.

Reply #511008 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Struggle to run a seabl program. Someone else on crack posting.

Reply #511041 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

"Dazz, 200k is more than Townsville or Cairns. Wollongong is listed as 290k."

Yes, yes it is, but all 3 of those are in perennial danger of closing.

For those dismissing the distances involved, you obviously don't understand Tasmania. You might as well tell Adelaide fans to support Melbourne, because by WA standards its not a long drive! LOL
It's not that people don't want to drive to Hobart, they happily will, to watch THEIR team play AGAINST the Hobart team!

Reply #511043 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

"So Stewart blames the league for all the issues, but then finally admits he hasn't even got his ducks in a row due to a communication breakdown with his co-bidder. I'd say the NBL dodged a bullet there"

At the risk of stating the obvious, what we have here is simply another consequence of the NBL choosing to favour the "Marvin" model over the "Neill" model.

To be fair, Neill's model of community based teams playing in smaller venues has some merit. If they abolish Marquee players and high-priced imports, then with lower budgets it would presumably be easier for more teams to compete. But the problem then becomes what to do with the Wildcats, Breakers, and other "major city" teams that start to hit the same heights? There's only so much knobbling that the Salary & Points Caps can achieve.
Whilst not always true, many previous teams withdrew form the NBL after successive seasons of getting pummelled.
Also, whilst more teams is generally better for TV rights, the profitable audiences ARE in the major cities. Besides, who wants to watch an Australian BBL league, knowing that our best players are all in Uzbekistan because the money is better?
Lastly, they are many costs (especially travel) that are independent. Can a "community" based team really afford road trips to Perth, Adelaide, FNQ, and NZ?

Whilst I would love to see more teams in the NBL, we have to accept that major city teams are the backbone.

Reply #511049 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It's about finding a model with balance. Teams who can fill big stadiums play most or all of their games there, teams who can't play in smaller stadiums.

Reply #511050 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Great idea Dazz. Townsville and Wollongong are packing them in aren't they. Maybe just big capital city teams would be better. Exclude Cairns as well.

Reply #511068 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Tassie don't have the economy to really support it lets face facts.

they have employment issues/low growth rates in salary/property and no new capital being invested into the state let alone a bball team!

Reply #511069 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Dazz, actually, I think the marquee option is a good way to allow power teams to recruit studs without smaller teams instantly being discarded to the cellar. paul's idea of a reduced cap, but then a marquee player outside that cap might work. His plan had two marquee players, but for the sake of simplicity, imagine:

NZ spend $800k, then $300k on a blockbuster import.
Wollongong spend $800k, then $100k on Ervin.

That $200k difference might help the Hawks' bottom line, but the $300k import is not necessarily going to be three-times as effective as an Ervin or Wilson type.

Without that system, if you imagined a $1.1m cap, NZ might get a $100k import and load up on elite Tall Blacks and Boomers, depriving other teams.

Reply #511076 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Nobody wants to see the struggling teams fold, and I would love to see the NBL back to 14+ teams.
But new clubs have to be sustainable. Any application must be supported by a transparent business plan that shows where that money is going to come from, backed by hard numbers and guarantees.

The latest I heard (on the radio) was that the Bendat family will own the new Brisbane franchise! Why, I have no idea, maybe Paul is getting bored with Pokies and needs a new hobby. But that is exactly the kind of backing you need to get it off the ground and ensure it stays viable.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

How can the Bendat family own a second franchise, or was the rule rescinded? Remember when Groves had to use Mal Hemmerling as cover when owing Sixers in addition to Bullets. The other issue is the kids will run it badly, they've had everything handed to them. worrying.

"Someone with all of Livingston's connections world wide cant get the job done. A few Mill a year would be chicken feed to his best mate David Walsh."

Walsh is one of those artsy fartsy types with a huge boner for his museum. funnily enough he has made $$$ from gambling including sports betting to fund it but then isn't interested putting it into sport. frustrating.

Reply #511471 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I'm not sure what the exact ownership structure of the Cats is, nor what is proposed for Brisbane. All I heard on the radio was "Bendat Family."
I think Paul is on the NBL board, so I'm assuming he might be involved.
At the end of the day, its better that the Franchise is owned by somebody with deep pockets, than by the NBL.

Reply #511558 | Report this post




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