Reality
Last year

Ringwood to join SEABL

Alot of talk about Ringwood following DV into the SEABL.

This makes sense for a club that is certainly probably the most consistent and organised off court in the Big V and has the resources and management to take the step and be pretty competitive right from the get go.

Topic #41781 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last year

Waverley would also be a logical one to move across

Reply #646693 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Eltham?

Reply #646716 | Report this post


Bear  
Last year

I say welcome to Ringwood, but hope they don't de-list their senior Big V team because of this decision.

Reply #646736 | Report this post


Spot Up  
Last year

I wouldn't have thought that'd be necessary for them Bear.

Reply #646768 | Report this post


Reality  
Last year

@Bear - They seem to have a solid core who know each other well...they'd probably just get a bit more athletic in 1 of the import sports and they'd at least be pretty competitive.


Reply #646803 | Report this post


Flow  
Last year

What makes teams in SEABL competitive in women's is experienced, physical and quicker players overall. More teams of equal ability.

The difference in the women's leagues is not that big of a gap to overcome it's just the speed of the game is faster a little more physical and all in the first 5 can score.

The Men's comp is miles apart and it would definitely take a bit of coin and a revamp of roster to be competitive. 1-8 need to be high quality.

With the rules now allowing for 3 restricted players and a change in the restricted rules teams will get even deeper.

Reply #646806 | Report this post


Anon  
Last year

Sorry Flow, but the SEABL women's teams are not ALL equal, in both conferences their is a very clear defining line between the top three or four teams, those regularly at the bottom like Albury, Frankston, Sandringham etc have a similar make up to BigV....one or two dominant players, another three or four ok players then really weak benches.

How BigV teams that are consistently struggling at that level can even get into SEABL is crazy, though I think Ringwood if any could make that transition well

Reply #646810 | Report this post


Q  
Last year

From the people I have spoken to it is Ringwood is a question of 'when' not 'if' it goes to SEABL. It will be either next year or the year after.

I hear SEABL is also going to be starting D-League up again so will be a considerable exit of teams from Big V. Can any one shed some light on this?

Reply #646813 | Report this post


known  
Last year

I disagree, the difference is the bottom sides your talking about is that they rely on Juniors to fill their rosters and starting line ups. That's the difference in those teams from the top to bottom. Dandenong, Kilsyth, Geelong, and Bendigo are all senior laden sides, Albury has no junior program to choose from nor many locals but had only 5 senior players total and 2 juniors started. Frankston chose to go young with no Youth league they had 6 senior players and also started juniors. Sandringham in my opinion is a management issue. 3 coaches in 4 years no stability but even they played juniors also I think.

Most all teams play juniors but they don't rely on them like those teams you listed. I bet if you compiled a list from best teams to worst with the exception of the COE you will see a correlation between how many juniors the top teams have on their roster and how many the bottom have. The lower you go the more number of 15, 16 and 18 year old's on the roster.

Reply #646816 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Will D league return next year?

Reply #646819 | Report this post


HO  
Last year

There are two issues with this kind of club movement I think.

1. Doesn't the SEABL have an issue around venues and game presentation standards with these types of clubs?

I don't claim to be an expert on all SEABL venues but Dandenong, Kilsyth, etc have much bigger seating capacities and clubs like Hobart and Bendigo really appear to strive for a much higher quality of game presentation than a Ringwood or DV can possibly achieve within their stadiums. Are DV still playing on that main court at Greensborough?

If I was a SEABL club that had really put a lot of work into these sort of things I am not sure I would be that happy about small, poorly presented game venue coming into the league, it drags everyone down.

2. Does this Vic focus actually make the league less attractive - to players in particular?

It seems unlikely expansion for SEABL will come from SA or even NSW but since Brisbane left, there are now just 12 interstate teams. 4 of those come from Canberra, 4 from Tassie, 3 from NSW and 1 from SA. Of those the COE's participation is at times disrupted. If you are a Melbourne based team, you only fly twice these days... to Tassie and Canberra... although I have heard of Melbourne teams bussing it to Canberra.

Surely the relevance of the SEABL as a league is about geographical representation, which sets it apart from the State leagues (the interstate travel was seen as a selling point in the past). You can argue all you like that it is spread across five states (for women four)... but being even more Victoria focused cannot be great for it.

Reply #646822 | Report this post


Anon2  
Last year

HO, I think you'll find Diamond Valley will play their games out of Community Bank Stadium. Much newer stadium, with much more seating. Their council is also looking at a major redevelopment of DV's current stadium, so you would have to imagine that some funding for that would be tied to their move into SEABL.

Reply #646825 | Report this post


Curious George  
Last year

Community Bank Stadium has no change rooms so highly unlikely it will be there. Think the old DV stadium will be home for SEABL games until the planned upgrade occurs.

Reply #646827 | Report this post


Anon  
Last year

Personally I think all wnbl and nbl teams should have a SEABL team as their development group, so their bench players can get some good court time under their belts, no imports , no starters allowed, it then also gives the DPS the opportunity, that would be a far better system to improve overall standard of Aussie players , added to that those clubs that can afford a couple of imports and half decent players , this would make for a good second tier development league all round.

Reply #646830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

SEABL is heading towards a two tier league, There will be SEABL Division 1 and SEABL Division 2 with promotion and relegation.

Big V will merge Division 1 with State Champ to be effectively a third tier

Reply #646843 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Really? Makes sense.

Reply #646848 | Report this post


Spot Up  
Last year

I was wondering the same thing about Ringwood's stadium. Small capacity and pretty tight at each end of the court too..

Reply #646889 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Stadium will meet SEABL requirements by start of season

Reply #646896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Stadium will meet SEABL requirements by start of season

Reply #646897 | Report this post


Spot Up  
Last year

Next season? Or the one after?

Reply #646907 | Report this post


Anon  
Last year

2019 they would be the club having a look. Perhaps coming in at the same time and Knox rejoins.

Reply #647708 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

City of Casey. Is Ringwood in there? Nup

Reply #691628 | Report this post


OldSchool  
Two weeks ago

Watch this space.........2019 will be a year of change. Not sure where the City of Casey fit into that?

Reply #691633 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Casey going to SEABL

Reply #691960 | Report this post


Bear  
Last week

Just a question, where is the support for Casey coming from?

Yes, great new stadium and a huge growth corridor, but men are currently 7th in SCM and women are a top team in D1, not SCW...

Ringwood's stadium not as good, granted, however men are top of SCM and women are thereabouts in top three of SCW.

It is Knox who I consider the best placed team to climb back into SEABL, to be honest...

Reply #692271 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last week

Casey have more $$$ to fund the SEABL roster, the team that sits 7th now will not be the team next year. Ringwood I think already spend what they can.

Reply #692281 | Report this post


Bear  
Last week

Actually, I didn't factor in the cash situation that much, interesting, yes well that would explain a lot...

Reply #692286 | Report this post


John  
Last week

So, if Casey are planning to get a brand new team for entering SEABL (Womens too if they join at the same time ?), where exactly do they get these SEABL quality players from ?

Their current roster is made up of ex Dandenong & Frankston SEABL players, so where do they get two brand new teams from ?

Reply #692332 | Report this post


Ironic  
Last week

So we get the typical situation where a small number of aspirational committee members and coaches will enter their club's teams in SEABL with the spin that 'we need this to give the juniors something to aspire to', and then promptly buy in players from other clubs or states, thereby reducing the opportunities for their own junior players, all while spending $200,000+ of the club's money to get into SEABL. The next stage will be that we need to spend even more to be competitive in SEABL.

Reply #692337 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

So? You have to start somewhere.

Reply #692341 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"and then promptly buy in players from other clubs or states, thereby reducing the opportunities for their own junior players"

Is this not then increasing opportunities for the other clubs' junior players ?? and their own too who can move to those other clubs ?

Reply #692344 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Buy in players?

Most clubs only have one or two juniors in the senior teams anyway as alot of people move for Study/works etc away or to other parts of a city so continuing to play for the local club isn't practical.

I don't understand the obsession with "we have to have juniors" when in relatiy its all bout pathway and if we gradute a few to the senior team great if not we should be putting the best possible team on the court each and every week regardless of where those kids played junior basketball.


Do we except an adult not to ever leave mummy and daddy's house so they can stay at there junior club to play senior bball? Get in the real world people

Reply #692353 | Report this post


ironic  
Last week

Re: reality and others
'Having the best possible team on the court each and every week' to what end. Having a SEABL team doesn't pull in crowds or sponsors- any sponsors that sign up do so on the basis of access to the club's database of members. Most of the imported players have no long-term relationship with the club- why would they as they need to earn the best living possible and would (rightly) move to do so.

But if you really want to be realistic, then let the senior representative teams actually be self-funding. By my most generous estimates, cost of $250,000, sponsorship of $50,000 (I said I was generous), average paying spectatorship of 200 people for 10 home games all supported by volunteer staff = door entry of $125 per person. Otherwise, the rest of us are subsidising your leisure pursuits.

Reply #692359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Reality - "I don't understand the obsession with "we have to have juniors". I have no problem with this however what really gets annoys me is when your club promotes this and bangs on about it being a "path-way" but never (or rarely, with no court time) plays anyone from the club.
It is either a path-way or not

Reply #692362 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Its a pathway for juniors to aspire to but lets be honest most don't ever make it or if they do most aren't playing at the original junior club.

Its should just be a pathway for anyone capable to play at the level regardless of which junior association someone played at as a teenager.

Reply #692364 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Reality... I think the issue is more the case of over-recruiting.

You have capable locals and ex junior players or up and coming juniors who get looked over to bring (at cost) someone else from another club to play 5-15 minutes a game.

Reply #692392 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Casey 100% in SEABL next year

Reply #692429 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

How confident are you of that?

Reply #692431 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Polk's back!!!

Reply #692441 | Report this post


Tip Toe  
Last week

Rumour has it Canberra pulling out of SEABL men. Maybe that is the opening Casey are going to take

Reply #692453 | Report this post


John  
Last week

So Casey are going to replace their entire current team ? (Men & Women?)
Are the Women entering too ?
Again, the question is, where are these players coming from ?
Take out the two import spots, there wouldn't be too many SEABL and higher quality players not already signed somewhere, which means if they're building two teams from scratch, it'll be recruiting from current teams, presumably in the area.


I'm all for them making the jump. Just wondering how they're going to be competitve without plundering othe local teams in the process.

Reply #692464 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who are they going to get to coach?
A lot of people will be wary with the rate they have turned over their coaches since joining bigV.
Hard to think of any that left amicably. If there's a pattern you usually draw your own conclusions.

Reply #692471 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

plundering other teams?
what's that meant to even mean?
players play to represent their association surely.

yes the would have to have men's and women's sides.

I certainly know one former seabl club that doesn't see the value in re entering the seabl. They would rather use that money to continue developing their juniors and expanding into new programs.

Reply #692475 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Can you define "new programs"

Reply #692482 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Casey are not in Seabl next year. False News

Reply #692483 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Canberra on the way out of SEABL isnt fake news! Basketball Canberra reviewing costs and performance of program.

Reply #692492 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I would be absolutely shocked if Canberra are still in SEABL next year.

Reply #692499 | Report this post


John  
Last week

Its meant to mean, that if they don't have the talent themselves, they'll have to take the players from current teams.
Thought that was pretty self explanatory.

Reply #692528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Money does not develop players, qualified skills coaches do. And in a country where basketball is thought to be part netball part footy, it will take a miracle like the recently retired generation of Opals to be a top BB nation. Same applies to clubs.

Reply #692557 | Report this post


AD  
Last week

I have no effing clue on either the SEABL or Ringwood.
But just on the "must have juniors" debate.
Juniors is where the money is.
Running a successful junior sports club, you spend half your time fighting off various proposals from the seniors.

You can run a junior program for almost nothing. Councils often don't charge for venues or grounds, sponsorship is easy to come by, (especially from Parents with businesses) suppliers give discounts, (and provide sponsorships) and you can rope Parents in to fill all the vital functions, and a sausage sizzle is a gold mine.

Reply #692562 | Report this post


SNAFU  
Last week

I would love to know which councils don't charge court hire. Because every council in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne does.

Reply #692615 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

AD you really don't know anything about running a club let alone a basketball club.
Rent free courts. rubbish.
Parents with businesses are probably a already donating hoods and services. Sponsorships, are like gold.
where do the refs get paid from?
how much are the subs for the kids. cost if uniforms sausage sizzles won't run a club for long.
How much tgo field a team week in week out ? let alone a $200k ++. Stick to what you know about bball. That is if thete is anything. you really are talking out of your arse now.

Reply #692632 | Report this post


Dane Suttle  
Last week

Ah AD, the oracle when it comes to junior basketball clubs. A good sausage sizzle could make $500.00. That'll go a fair way to paying the $60-$80 per hour Melbourne clubs pay PER court to hire! Suppliers giving discounts? Which ones are those? Sponsorship "falls" off trees! Come to my club AB, we could use you.

Reply #692640 | Report this post


Anonymous  
A few hours ago

Hi Dane. we you play man. Awesome.

Reply #692733 | Report this post


AD  
A couple of hours ago

Haha,
Been closely involved in running several junior sporting clubs, including BBL. And yes, have had roles such as Treasurer and Registrar, so actually know what I'm talking about.

Point is its a lot cheaper to run a junior program, and generally much easier to turn a surplus and build up a bit of a buffer.

And keep in mind that when I say Juniors, I mean kids. Not U18's.

I probably should have said "next to nothing compared to the costs for seniors."

We used to charge about $100 a season. And that covered everything. We used volunteers for everything.
It gets progressively harder as the kids get older.

In addition to providing a solid financial base, juniors also funnel kids into the senior comps. Sounds obvious, but in juniors you've got parents and schools pushing kids into sport.

Reply #692744 | Report this post


ironic  
Today

All those having a go at AD seem to be missing the salient point here. If it is difficult to find the income to fund the rent, uniforms, administration etc of a basketball club, then adding 250,000+ to fund two SEABL sides (rather than 80,000 for two Big V sides) isn't going to make it any easier.
I sometimes wonder whether BA starts these posts to suggest that SEABL is really attractive, rather than the financial drain it actually is.

Reply #692764 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Charon 55

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Punch - insightful time tracking
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Serio - aerial photography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 5:08 pm, Mon 18 Jun 2018 | Posts: 718,341 | Last 7 days: 640