Anonymous
Earlier this year

NBL refs punishment

The refs have caused more controversy this season than I can remember, and today's display with the calls on Sobey top it off. Whether you are a Sobey fan or not, nobody in the league wants to see its star players get kicked out of a game in such a haphazard way. Disgraceful. If anything will slow growth now, it’s the refs.

Topic #42700 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

It's also interesting that whilst everyone seems to know that the standard of reffing has been an issue all season (as seen by many coaches and players frustration on the court, then being gagged during interviews), teams aren’t bothering to approach the NBL about it as they know that appealing will make no difference.
What would have happened if Sobey’s ejection had happened during a playoffs match? Even if found incorrect (which is highly unlikely anyway), the penalty has already been applied and affected the outcome of the match. Some kind of penalty for seriously errant judgement needs to apply for refs, same as it does for players and coaches. Hopefully prevention of these sorts of consistently bad calls is better than whatever result comes of them. Other than this constant issue, the league has been great to watch this season.

Reply #672311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sobey gobs off and does it again. Where is the problem?

Reply #672315 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I'm more of a neutral basketball fan and love the way Adelaide play but they've got more floppers and whiners than any other team, sobey flopped and got punished, Wright should tell his team to shut up and play it as it comes and stop complaining about the refs.
Both Melbourne and NZ have had bad calls against them away this weekend but they get on with it. It might cost Adelaide a premiereship.

Reply #672318 | Report this post


orbit  
Earlier this year

Frustration when the same contact gets 2 different decisions.

I'd be pissed as well.

If in doubt & little contact - NO CALL!!!!

How hard can it be?

Reply #672327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

'responsibilities'

https://www.refereebasketball.net.au/national-referees.html

who's who

https://www.refereebasketball.net.au/national-referee-panel.html

Note WNBL Ref Coach from this thread https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/42687-dandenong-basketball-in-the-law-courts/


The Boss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Carey_(umpire)

In person
https://www.facebook.com/BasketballAustralia/videos/1177416958954009/


It appears that one "new" main theme is to position yourself and stand perfectly still, waiting for the play to "come to you" , so that your eyes are perfectly stationary and your vision is not having to work so hard to use the brain's processing power to run the vision interpretation - all sound neurology - sort of ;)

very much AFL I think, particularly as it's a physical impossibility for any AFL refs to maintain a constant 5-7 m distance from the football......

Of course this is far superior to the previous basketball ( thank you Sid taylor et al) theme of moving to anticipate the play and to continually position yourself so that you have a view of the "gap" between players and can identify who ( and IF) initiates contact, and IF that contact is 1) illegal and 2) effects an advantage/disadvantage.

IMHO as contact is not only legal in AFL , but is in fact the aim of the game, you never have to consider anything about contact other than ( now) is it from the rear, or head high.

In basketball . of course, the question of IF there is contact is of critical importance, and the aim of the defense is to place maximum intimidation on the opposition while maintaining a legal "gap" , and to force ( if possible) the offense to close that gap and initiate contact.

The number of times in the last 2 weeks , where the based line camera has shown Zero contact by the NBL defender,or the shooter moving into the defender, when the totally hopeless defensive foul call is made by the ref furthest away and NOT in line with the Gap is really really high.

So sad.

The suggestion is that the senior FIBA badged refs are concerned that they will not get finals games in world champs or Olympics ( as we did in the GOLD Game in 2012 etc) , if they accidentally take these 'new improved" habits OS with themselves and are not able to drop those habits in the OS tournaments.

The number and position ( Finals) of the games awarded to Oz refs in the next lot of OS campaigns will probably tell a sad tale.

Reply #672332 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Peter Carey hasn't had anything to do with the NBL in years.

Reply #672333 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There was enough contact to deem that that wasn't a flop.

Reply #672334 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Depends on who they actually appoint anon #332. There are definitely 2 schools of officials. The in-house and the dog-house.

Reply #672336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

And there is a very good reason for that kobe

Reply #672337 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Kobe thiks he knows all . Argue. Not with the Kobe.

Reply #672340 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So was koberulz wrong? If not, whats your point?

Reply #672343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

didn't log in Kobe? How many other aliases do you have?

Reply #672344 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Amazing when it affects Sobey it is an issue, but when it happened to Goulding when the Sixers played United in Melbourne, resulting in Adelaide being able to cut a 10 point lead back to four with a minute remaining, it was fine and United fans were just sooks. Hypocrites.

Reply #672345 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Carey hasn't been there for years most sensible people know that. I wouldn't even give them that knowledge. oh BTW you should have said another NBL bad decision. But what would I know.

Reply #672346 | Report this post


FM  
Earlier this year

If I recall Joey called BS during the post game in relation to Goulding. However Bubbles flops, we all know that. Sobey was drilled today, unfortunately you can't see the contact or if he fell before the contact from the trail position. Whoops Becker was in the trail.

Reply #672359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What does this thread title even mean?

Refs don't get punished. Either reviewed or if that bad then demoted.

Or do you want a hundred lashes of the whip because your team and boy got hosed? Yawn!

Reply #672364 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Isn't a demotion a form of punishment? Hmm.

Reply #672368 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So what does the OP want then?

These things already exist. It reads like he wants more though, like blood.

Reply #672371 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

I think he's basically saying the ref was really crap and needs looking at.

Reply #672372 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Same as every week.

Reply #672377 | Report this post


Glen  
Earlier this year

Refs: disgraceful today. They should have really little impact on the run of the game. Consistently bad or absent calls make the game all about them, not what the punters pay to see. The Childress foul on Conger was ugly and dangerous, potentially worthy of ejection (haven't watched replay). The refs need to be less wizard of Oz lion and make some courageous calls. Two Adelaide players foul a driving player after the whistle for the initial foul, the refs swallowing their pea sends the wrong message. Yet when a badly fouled Norton (called) pushes a leg away while on the floor, this is worthy of an unsportsmanlike? Consistency should be the aim of the referee brigade in all games and while they achieve this, it should be better than consistently atrocious.
The standard of play was too high today for this classless referee display!

Reply #672383 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Glen, nice English sir

Reply #672386 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Earlier this year

Glen

If refs "make some courageous calls" they will influence games even more. A courageous, or brave decision is one you make when you know it will be unpopular or controversial. Like the following from Yes, Minister:

“Thats's very brave of you, Sir...A very courageous decision, Minister.” An ongoing joke in the series. At which point Minister Hacker always thought about the demise of his political career.






Reply #672389 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Earlier this year

Settle petal!
Sobey a "star player " thanks for that chuckle
If ref's see a tech than call it. You think they have remembered everyone's foul count & in a split second go , I can't call a second tech,because Anon's want to see him play more?

Reply #672390 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

Childress reached in flat footed and out of position and got ball and body. Hard, clumsy foul got what it deserved. Would be ridiculous to eject a player for that one.

Reply #672396 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Thunder Jam, you're obviously in another world. Sobey is one of the Aussie stars in the league. He wears the Green and Gold and last offseason played NBA summer League (although he got injured). He also played in Greece.
If he’s not an Aussie NBL star, than who is?

Reply #672419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What's the solution? The League has the best referees available.

All these threads about referees and there is not one viable solution presented.

Stop focusing on the refs, accept the calls and play the game.

Reply #672437 | Report this post


snooch  
Earlier this year

Why should it be up to fans to provide a "viable solution"?

It's a professional league with sub standard officiating. It's up to the league to work out the solutions.

Players, coaches and fans shouldn't have to "accept the calls" - it's up to the league, the refs and refs coaches etc to sort it out and provide high quality officiating to complement the standard of the games.

Reply #672439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

A viable solution is more training from highly skilled and consistent referees rather than the inept ones currently involved.

Reply #672440 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Fans are claiming its sub-standard. Be part of the solution or be part of the problem.

They get training from the best in the country.

Just because fans disagree with decisions doesn't mean they're wrong. Even if the referees disagree with certain rules they have to call them as FIBA and the NBL instruct.

You have the best referees and the best educators in Australia covering the NBL.

Accept the whistle and move on.

Reply #672462 | Report this post


snooch  
Earlier this year

It's not just fans claiming it's sub standard. This year more than any other players and coaches as well as ex-players have been vocal about officiating.

There's clearly a problem, so "accept the whistle and move on" isn't acceptable.

One simple solution would be for the referees of today to perhaps look at how the game was whistled in years gone by, especially with regards to tech fouls. The refs this year seem to blow techs as a matter of course, rather than a last resort. Try actually communicating with the players instead of having a "holier than thou" attitude.

Reply #672467 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

When do the players have to take some responsibility? Sobey bitches on every play, it's like the boy who cried wolf! Occasionally he will have a valid point but refs switch off when a player continually cries. But on this occasion Sobey was wrong because you can’t have a foul and a flop warning. Time to shut up and play. If he shuts up and knows the rule he doesn’t give Beker the opportunity.

Reply #672474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sobey is a sook. deserved the tech knew the consequences move on nothing to see here.

Reply #672484 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

If you actually believe that was good for the league, than each week, people will be pissed with dumb ass decisions. People's personal feelings about Sobey are clouding their judgement about the rubbish way a star was thrown from a game. It’s trash to watch the refs have such a large impact.

Reply #672489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No one is agreeing it is correct. The statement is if Sobey isn't an idiot he doesn’t put himself in that situation

Reply #672492 | Report this post


snooch  
Earlier this year

There was nothing Sobey did that deserved a technical foul. He wasn't overly demonstrative. Refs have to harden up a bit. In days gone by the ref would have communicated with him first, not blown the whistle as a matter of course.

If he was in the ref's face yelling and screaming, sure, blow the whistle.

Reply #672494 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Go watch an Olympic level or Euroleague game. In regards to the unsportsmanlike foul, you will rarely see one called at this level as the players know the consequences of their actions.

Australian players and coaches are playing catch up here as they come to terms with the interpretations that have been played like this in Europe for a few years.

They don't have to like it, or cry "substandard call". They need to suck it up, understand what is going to be called and adjust their play.

The flop is a subjective call based on the referees position on the court in relation to the play and their interpretation of the contact. It seems everyone now worries about a flop call, where they used to complain about a block/charge call.

Tech fouls for dummy spits/mouthing off - fair enough. I don't think the criteria around this has changes too much over the years it is just being applied in a stricter fashion.

Even though there may have been a couple of phantom or incorrect calls, I think the game has been a better product this year. More athletic plays as a result of the game being called this way.

Just enjoy the game for what it is!

Reply #672495 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"He wasn't overly demonstrative."

I disagree. Who knows what he said but his gesturing was a bit over the top. Standing in the middle of the court, yelling at a ref in that manner is asking for trouble.

Reply #672496 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Earlier this year

Wonder if refs could be objective rather than subjective..

( they dont like majok deng all that much)

Reply #672499 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Agghhhhhj.......refs. The short spurts of power in their life. So good.

Reply #672508 | Report this post


Three to make two  
Earlier this year

I was at the game and am a Hawks fan and even I think Sobey's ejection was ridiculous. Correct under the rules, as they are, but ridiculous. He did remonstrate about something (after ADL just had a call go their way?!) and he may have crossed the line in his language and that was his 2nd T, after the flop call earlier. So, under the rules, the ejection is correct.

But the rule that two Ts is an automatic ejection is ridiculous. IIRC, refs used to have the discretion to eject a player on a 2nd T. That was usually exercised if the player acted like a pork chop and got T'd then either continued or repeated the behaviour. Not for innocuous things like delay of game or flopping.

Which brings me to the flop rule. The NBL brought this in simply because refs cocked up and kept rewarding flops with charge calls. So, they rewarded players in flopping. I'm sure that there's many people here who could name noted floppers. And we wondered why players flopped?

So, the NBL decided to get tough. But the refs continue to cock up by by being so eager to call flops even when a player has taken a decent hit or whose momentum might have caused the loss of balance.

Then, there's the other "issue" for the NBL: USFs, which featured in last night's game. Mitch Norton was called for one for pushing Drmic off him. After it seemed like Drmic had crashed over the top of Norton and landed on him. I couldn't see what Norton did but I saw on a video clip on my phone this morning showing him pushing Drmic off him.

However, a trusted source, who was closer to the incident than I was, told me that there were accusations that Norton kicked Drmic. (I didn't see this but will stand corrected if the video shows it).

On the assumption that there was NO kick, if Beker made the USF call on the grounds of a kick and he didn't and couldn't have seen, then Beker should be stood down immediately and sent away for re-education.

At the end of the game, I saw Nico (one of the ref supervisors) heading toward the ref room and either he had his "game face" on or he had the look of someone who wasn't happy at what he had seen.

Reply #672529 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Which brings me to the flop rule. The NBL brought this in
The NBL had nothing to do with it.

Reply #672540 | Report this post


Rat10  
Earlier this year

"But the rule that two Ts is an automatic ejection is ridiculous. IIRC, refs used to have the discretion to eject a player on a 2nd T. That was usually exercised if the player acted like a pork chop and got T'd then either continued or repeated the behaviour. Not for innocuous things like delay of game or flopping."

100% agree with this. Absolutely ridiculous to eject a player when it's more than likely that the ref has been overzealous in applying the flopping rule. The player is penalised in one of the harshest ways possible (ejection) due to the refs making a very highly subjective and often incorrect call. As I said in a previous post, the punishment just doesn't fit the "crime".

If a player is going to get thrown out of a game it needs to be for something that warrants ejection, not because they've lost their balance or stepped on someone's shoe (like Damian Martin did when he got called for ridiculous flop) which has caused them to fall to the floor.

Reply #672541 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

They are reffing badly because there are no consequences. That balding older ref who is terrible refs every week with no threat of being dropped and that ref whose overweight looks a bit like a pig refs more than one game each week and he can hardly get up and down the court aylen

Reply #672547 | Report this post


curious  
Earlier this year

Yeah I guess many Olympics and his 600th game on Friday makes him a dud.

Reply #672549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Anon #547 Boti is scathing of the referees. He wrote a little article about your ref Aylen and his opinion is poles apart from yours. I wonder who's opinion holds more weight?

Reply #672552 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

"They are reffing badly because there are no consequences. That balding older ref who is terrible refs every week with no threat of being dropped and that ref whose overweight looks a bit like a pig refs more than one game each week and he can hardly get up and down the court aylen"

NBL should use this in the refs' education sessions. You know, as a case study of how some fans approach informed, objective decision making.

Reply #672559 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think the issues stem from rule changes and guidelines that make it easier for refs to call USF's and techs. They should be an absolute last resort and done in consultation with the others but they've given the refs more leeway to make judgements towards calling them, which some refs clearly abuse.

Reply #672561 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Perhaps if the fans understood the rules they wouldn't be so quick to jump on the refs.

Reply #672570 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

Flop calls and excessive unsportsmanlike fouls are now a blight on the game but lets blame the fans for not enjoying them.

Reply #672572 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

How about blame FIBA or the coaches and players for trying to manipulate the rules to their team's advantage at the expense of good quality basketball?

Nah blame the refs who are just doing what they've been instructed to do.

Reply #672575 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

...very badly

Reply #672590 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this year

I've always said that it's not fair on refs for them to be trying to judge flops. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it can look like an obvious flop from one angle when a replay with show that it actually isn't one.
The same can be said of a lot of types of foul calls, but the flop has the additional factor of trying to guess the intention of the player and not just his actions.
It's too much. A player being on the ground is enough of a disadvantage most of the time anyway.

Related to that, one of the best thing the refs could do IMO is get better at the art of the no-call.

Reply #672591 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

You think refs get into the game so they can not make calls??

Reply #672594 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

come on now. if you are a parent and a child argues back you have an action plan in place.

if the child complains slightly you may have a conversation with them on the reason why etc.

if said child escalates complaint you have your guidelines which may just mean moving on with what you were doing and hope said child drops complaint and plays nicely with others.

if said child stands in middle of playground and makes gesture's that everyone in playground can see, that brings your parenting in to dispute and oversteps the boundaries of good behaviour you have taught your children you have to take action. You are not going to ignore the child. If you don't you know it will escalate further.

Sobey stood like a petulant child in the centre of the court, well away from others and not once but twice whilst yelling at ref about a flop.

Come on now we would have all sent him to his room. He tossed teddy out of the cot big time. As it was it wasn't the brightest move on Sobey's part regardless of whether he didn't like the first call he already had one tech, a second was always under the new rules send him to the locker room.

Reply #672595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Your entire analogy was flawed because in this situation, refs are not parents and players are not the children (yes ok, some of them are). Refs are there to help facilitate the game, not speak down to players as if they are older, wiser, better etc.

If you go in to game acting as the "parent" then the game is already worse off.

Reply #672598 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

Maybe that's the problem. Communicating with players and coaches on the wrong level? Leading to frustration?

Reply #672600 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

And when the player goes in as a disrespectful petulant shit the game is also worse off. The main issue in the NBA is the players don't respect the referees and hence their abuse isn’t being tolerated. Sobey thinks he is bigger than the game, has zero respect for any of the referees and on this occasion rolled the dice once too often and got sent to the naughty corner. I didn’t say it was right but he put himself in a position to get a T and the ref obliged

Reply #672601 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

The commication issue stsrted years ago. How many time do coaches say there's no point bringing up issues? They know they'll get nothing but arrogance or just get ignored.

Reply #672603 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Sobey thinks he's bigger than the game" really? You idiot.

Reply #672609 | Report this post


anonymous  
Earlier this year

Parody of the incident

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfHbTWcjawj/?taken-by=swizzedits

Reply #672612 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

There are always players that get on peoples nerves. He was frustrated though. Like all the other players and coaches and TV presenters and fans.

Reply #672613 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Parody of the incident"

Um....

Reply #672615 | Report this post


Udog  
Earlier this year

Very average. Are you serious about your "parody"? Do another one but make it funny.

Reply #672620 | Report this post


The Rooster  
Earlier this year

Perhaps we have the best refs, but need to do lots of work on coach behaviour.
It is the pinnacle level of the sport, but there are some real flogs in charge of teams, and that filters down.
Do I want my 10 years old's coach acting like Gleeson or Wright? It filters through the team.

Reply #672637 | Report this post


Vodka 63  
Earlier this year

That's a good point Rooster.

One of the things that's intrigued me about the Wildcats is that they seem very well disciplined on court with regard to the refs (with the exception of Walker a few times this year). I cant remember a Wildcat carrying on like Sobey did for quite some time. Makes me wonder whether it is a very considered strategy by Gleeson telling the players to leave the refs alone because he will ride them enough for the whole team.

Reply #672640 | Report this post


The Rooster  
Earlier this year

Perhaps so 83 - he seems to do it for all of them, where Joey seems to get them fired up as a team.
I'd never want my kids sitting behind the bench - probably an adult area only, which is a pity

Reply #672644 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Is Joyce coaching again? ;)

Reply #672647 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sobeys tatts stand for 'Non Starter' right?

Reply #672664 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Oberon 89

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Punch - insightful time tracking
Serio - aerial photography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:57 pm, Wed 23 May 2018 | Posts: 715,353 | Last 7 days: 981