Anonymous
Last week

Should the NBL adopt a similar no ref contact rule like AFL?

It's been a hot topic in the AFL recently with Hawkins getting suspended last week for making contact with an umpire and a couple of other incidents this weekend, all have been very minor, but AFL pretty much has a no umpires contact policy.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-12/watch-two-players-make-umpire-contact

I had a fair few issues with the NBL refs last year, but one thing I really disliked that was an easy fix was the constant contact between  refs and players/coaches in games (often even initiated by the refs).  So many times you'd see refs and/or players with an arm around each other, or giving each other a pat or some form of contact.

I just think it's a bad look for a league, especially one thats had an issue with complaints about reffing. During the season I remember one game seeing a ref put his arm around Wesley a few times, having a laugh and even give him a high five and pats on the back. Wesley coincidently got a couple of lucky calls later. Not suggesting anything suss happened, but just that it's a bad look for the league.

It's not a huge issue, but an easy fix and something I think will help with the league's professionalism and integrity image. IMO there should be a no contact policy during games for players/coaches with refs. I think players and refs should be issued a small fine (don't want to see suspensions) that increases with every offence.

Topic #43316 | Report this topic


PlaymakerMo  
Last week

I don't see how contact between players and referees is an issue at all for the NBL.

"I just think it's a bad look for a league" - how so if it doesn't influence the calls that are made or negatively impact player's demeanor?

Reply #688483 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

""I just think it's a bad look for a league" - how so if it doesn't influence the calls that are made or negatively impact player's demeanor?"

Refs are only out there to officiate and remain completely impartial. I don't like the look of refs trying to be best friends with the players and coaches (some are much worse than others with it). You can explain something to them but is it necessary to put your arms around them and give them high fives and pats on the back? Imo it brings in doubts about the integrity of the refs when they look like they're trying to be best buds with everyone, not the most professional look. Like i said its not a huge deal or issue, but one of those minor things that I feel makes the NBL look a bit less professional.

Reply #688487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I've never seen a ref give a player a high five in my life.

Reply #688488 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"I've never seen a ref give a player a high five in my life."

Technically what I saw was more of a low five lol. Happened with Wesley and a ref during a Wildcats home game last season.

Reply #688489 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Last week

"Refs are only out there to officiate and remain completely impartial."

Contact between players and referees doesn't necessarily interfere with either of these criteria.

"Not suggesting anything suss happened, but just that it's a bad look for the league... Imo it brings in doubts about the integrity of the refs when they look like they're trying to be best buds with everyone"

So you hold the position that the referees aren't influenced by their interactions with players, but this is a perception problem. People who hold the view that the referees/league is corrupt are prone to confirmation bias: they will always find something to support their viewpoint, however specious it may be.

The NBL will appear to be considerably more professional as the refereeing standard improves and players/coaches show them more respect.

Reply #688491 | Report this post


AD  
Last week

So you ask the question about a no-contact rule, that protects umpires from being knocked over.
But what you're really cranky about is a ref supposedly giving a player a high-five (that wasn't actually a high-five anyway)?

I have no problem with refs adopting a friendly and calming attitude towards players and coaches.

Reply #688503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The refs usually suck up to the players and do the "player x if you continue to do that crap" It's because the current crop of refs have lost the ability to relate to players..
There are very few good refs out there now and unlike the ol days payers and refs sat down together and had a beer and talked life.
Like so many other sports the refs are a protected species. It's pitiful.

Reply #688505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

And I can understand why. Who would want to have a beer with Vaughan Mayberry?

Reply #688517 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"So you ask the question about a no-contact rule, that protects umpires from being knocked over.
But what you're really cranky about is a ref supposedly giving a player a high-five (that wasn't actually a high-five anyway)?"

I just think in general it's something that's not necessary. I wouldn't say I'm 'cranky' about it, that Wesley one was just one game in particular I remember watching thinking it's not a great look for the league. Plenty of other games though with refs and players putting arms around each other and I've seen others mention it before (on here too) and how it doesn't look great. Like i said it's a relatively minor issue but something that they could easily stop.

Reply #688521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I'm sorry but I have not noticed any high fiving or even friendly body contact between refs and players. I think I'm in the majority with this one also.

Reply #688530 | Report this post


FM  
Last week

Basketball referees are close to players, coaches, benches and spectators. They don't have the luxury of glass around the ice as in ice hockey. The playing area is a lot smaller therefore all fans are closer than any of the outdoor sports.

The other sport which comes close is Netball, however try having a conversation with a netball umpire during the game or be a vocal spectator. You are shown the door quickly and that is the end of that. In basketball, we let our fans, even benches show a bit of emotion. Probably why Basketball has the NBA/NBL/WNBA/WNBL and netball has ummm not much except a few commonwealth countries play the game. It didn't expand that well did it!

Standing next to each other (coaches and referees) are proven to have a better conversation, be more polite and respect one another. Standing face to face normally results in coach over stepping mark and a few bench techs or ejection occur.

Basketball is a tough game to officiate with approximately 600 decisions a game made. 400+ of those decisions result in no whistle no call situations. There is a need for proactive preventative officiating to make games flow. A little bit of personality goes a long way.

On another touching players and officials. Nearly every referee course will tell you not to get into a fight. However I have never known a great referee not to be in there early and stop the fight. I know heaps of good referees who would never get involved however that is probably one of the reasons they never clinched the end. There are times when the incident is just too big and you pick those ones and hopefully keep out waiting for a mass ejection once they all stop.

Currently our officials have the balance right. The ones that you never see standing side by side in a cuddle chatting about how the game is going (remembering coaches view the game differently).

Reply #688533 | Report this post


skull  
Last week

The NBL needs to stay right away from the AFL...

Reply #688534 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Last week

LOL. The AFL is so PC in the future players may need to ask for consent prior to a tackle.

Reply #688535 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

The refs usually suck up to the players and do the "player x if you continue to do that crap" It's because the current crop of refs have lost the ability to relate to players..
*provides example of ref relating to players*
*complains that current refs don't have the ability to relate to players*

The contact doesn't bother me at all. They're co-producing the product that fans watch.

Part of the game is being flexible enough to keep the spectacle going where appropriate. That is, provide warnings about arm bars and having two hands on the opponent, etc, rather than immediately call every touchy foul and constantly stop the game. In a noisy stadium, if a ref or player thinks it's more natural to have a hand on someone's back when standing beside them, so be it.

The AFL example is players contacting an umpire, potentially to intimidate. The NBL examples given are of familiarity.

In the AFL, you can often hear mic'ed up umpires speaking in a familiar/friendly way with players when explaining calls. I think it's a positive thing.

Reply #688555 | Report this post


AD  
Last week

In AFL the field umpires are within the field of play, and the onus is on the players to not run into them. That's why they wear those hideous fluro tops.

In BBL the refs are on the sidelines and contact is rare. It does happen, usually when a player goes for a tumble, and the refs shake it off. But if a player deliberately shouldered a ref, I imagine they would be ejected.

As for contact initiated by the ref, eg a hand on an arm when talking, etc, I don't see it as an issue.

Reply #688622 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last week

Was it Gary Ervin who shoved a ref a few years back and was then surprised when he got a technical?

Reply #688624 | Report this post


Pop  
Last week

The officials are there to administer the rules of the game, not to be the players' good buddies. Players and officials might be 'in it together' when it comes to their involvement in a game but they have quite distinct roles that require the official to be in command when required.

This touchy feely bit is a relatively new phenomenon. Player contact with a referee used to be verboten in basketball, just as it is in the AFL and just about every other game. Now the refs = at NBL level, anyway = are taking it upon themselves to initiate contact with players. Quite apart from being a 'bad look' = as I agree it is - it is also unnecessary, undesirable and dangerous for a player = and potentially the ref - if the player badly to a ref's 'friendly' touch.

Wonder how a player who reacts to a referee's touch with a [quite natural] push or slap away would go trying to convince even an NBL tribunal that he or she made contact with the referee in reaction to unexpected - or unwanted - contact by the referee. Reckon that wouldn't fly, even though it was the truth/what happened.

By all means have officials stand side-by-side with a layer or coach when giving an explanation rather than going eye=to-eye and firing up a confrontation, but leave the embraces - and some of them are - or other contact for the bar or similar, where a lot of the on-court contact we see on court in all likelihood wouldn't be considered acceptable.

Reply #688630 | Report this post


Ushiro  
Last week

The NBL should adopt the same referee and coach interaction that occurred during the Commonwealth Games. Coach shuts up and Referee does not explain every call to a Coach. Perhaps if some coaches spent more time actually focussing on what their players are doing instead of "working" the referees, then they may just see what the issues are and be able to make changes to defensive and offensive issues. At the same time, the Referee's concentration is fully on the game. Win/Win for all.

Reply #688632 | Report this post


Todd  
Last week

I remember a good mate of mind slap me on my bum. I gave him a t.

Reply #688644 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"erhaps if some coaches spent more time actually focussing on what their players are doing instead of "working" the referees, then they may just see what the issues are and be able to make changes to defensive and offensive issues."

The coaches who are the greatest offenders of this do it because they aren't capable of adjusting in game. That's why they whine no matter what. One particular coach comes to mind as a perfect example.

Reply #688649 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

What I am saying is these coaches are complaining more in lieu of actually analysing the game and making adjustments because they are incapable of it. It is easier to blame someone else (refs) than to put blame on oneself.

Reply #688650 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last week

Todd

Good on ya.

Referees are paid to do a job and should be professional.

Sexual harassment should never be tolerated in a workplace.

Reply #688684 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Coaches do it because it works. If your opposition coach manipulated the referees and yours didn't, as a fan you'd be on here bagging the other coach and complaining that your coach isn't doing enough to get the calls.

Rule should be clear and enforced. Coaches and referees should have a more open dialogue off court but on court it should be much more professional than it is now.

Reply #688702 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Hopscotch 56

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Punch - insightful time tracking
Serio - aerial photography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:25 pm, Wed 23 May 2018 | Posts: 715,353 | Last 7 days: 981