Bird
Two weeks ago

Big V Structure

There are likely to be some changes to the men's comp structure. With the below mentioned as the set up.

Champ (12 teams)

Blackburn
Casey
Chelsea
Hawthorn
Hume
Keilor
Keysborough
McKinnon
Shepparton
Sunbury
Warrandyte
Werribee


Div 1 (12 teams)
Bellarine
Bulleen
Camberwell
Coburg
Collingwood
LaTrobe
Melbourne Uni
Mildura
Southern Peninsula
Warnamabool
Whittlesea
Westernport

Div 2 (11 teams)
Altona
Colac
Craigieburn
Maccabi
Melton
Mornington
North East
RMIT
Packenham
Sherbrooke
Wallan

Topic #45836 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

No Colac and Geelong in Div 1

Reply #759400 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Wow way off.

Reply #759402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

If you added Bachuss Marsh Lions in to D2 then you would have 3 comps of 12

Or allow the Corio Bay to continue even with the merger with Geelong and adjust accordingly

Reply #759403 | Report this post


X  
Two weeks ago

Geelong have NBL 1 therefore can not have a Big V team

Reply #759407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

3 comps of 12 would be perfect.

13 is the stupidest umber to have in a Big V division.

Anything after 12 needs to be in conferences Either 14 or 16.

Reply #759409 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

#759402, how is it "way off"?

Only change I would make is swap Craigieburn and Mildura

Reply #759410 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Bird,
I didn't realise Keysborough, Blackburn and Shepparton had women's teams good enough for Champ?
And Bulleen where in Champ women, so have they been tossed out?
I your putting the 3 above up to Champ, you would think Mildura goes up having been runner up to Hawthorn in Div 1.

Reply #759414 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

You don't need SCW to have SCM or vice versa

Reply #759417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I Understand you don't need SCW to have SCM, but that's not what the title says....

Reply #759418 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

13 is actually the perfect number to have in a big V league. You play each team twice a season (home and away) and end up playing 24 games in the regular season. Top 6 play finals with top 2 earning first round finals bye

Reply #759427 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

13 is to many.

Especially when there are hardly any teams in Champ men

Reply #759509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Must fix the best of 3 format for semi finals, to ask teams to go on the road for game 1 after having 2 weeks off is ridiculous.

Reply #759518 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

12 teams in SCM and D1 is perfect. But will Big V allow those teams to go up?

Reply #759567 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Craigieburn couldn't play in div 1 because the import has already signed up for 2020 and if he played any higher division than div 2 he would be laughable as an import player. No defence, terrible shooting action and lazy wouldn't cut it higher.

Reply #759568 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell Men will get stomped in D1M, need to be careful who goes up from D2 - Sth Penn obviously and Mildura belong there, outside of that its a raffle.

Reply #759573 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell will be more than ok in D1.

Keep in mind with the teams going up to State Champ Mens D1 standard will plummet

Reply #759575 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Why would Shep & Keys go to CM, never made it to the play offs and not only don't they have CW they don't have women, don't deserve the right. lets make promotion one you earn the honour and right to go up.

Reply #759579 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Surely Keysy will only go up if others are offered before them and knock it back

Shep have previously been in SCM and won it a few times with out having a women's program. I’m sure they willl be fine. Need to remember it’s harder to engage women in sport in some small country towns

Reply #759593 | Report this post


!  
Two weeks ago

Keysborough finished 5th

Shepparaton finished 2nd

Rather simple if ask anyone that can read

Reply #759598 | Report this post


Hoops  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell beat Mildura in the semiFinals this year and then lost to Southern Pen in the grand final (although beat them by 30 earlier in the season) and suddenly they aren't up to standard? If you bring back that group with the import they will be more than fine.

Reply #759612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell will be solid. Could make finals, Nat O'Hara will return from injury.

Reply #759621 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Not much between top 5 teams at Div 1 Men's level.

Reply #759623 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Not much difference except earning the right of passage, this is why it is important to stick to the top two earning promotion as you had to play for the right to go up not just compete.

Reply #759628 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Whittlesea should consider themselves lucky this re-alignment is happening, otherwise it would be another relegation for them.

Reply #759632 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Two weeks ago

Lets look at the YL Structure for Men - surely we can bring the two YL1 & 2 together and form a conference set-up.

YL2 is essentially every team from the deep east (mornington, pakenham, WP, Keys)

Making YL 1 & 2 into a conference set-up reduces travel time in a comp where not every kid drives or has a committed parent. You could potentially have a shorter season and longer play-off run instead.

YL Champ works great with the two conference system.


Southern Conf
Mornington
Franktson
WPS
Casey
Chelsea

Metro Conf
Camberwell
Coburg
Warrandyte
Collingwood
Maccabi
Hume City

Western Conf
Werribee
Geelong
Corio
Altona
Melton

Northern
Sunbury
Bendigo
Ballarat
Cragiburn
Whittlesea
Wallan

Less Travel - Better Local Rival Games

Reply #759636 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Love this structure - would like to see a similar structure put into D1/2 Men.

Reply #759645 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Two weeks ago

Thanks - ANON

I think we need to spice up the lower Divisions and YL is a good testing ground for these types of things. My concern with YL1 & 2 is it starts to go the way of the VJBL too many teams/divisions and just becomes glorified domestic comp.

YL in some clubs is made of really local kids (compared to senior teams) who could attract great followings especially when coupled with YLW games as double headers each week.

Div 1 & 2 men would be a good place to see this sort of conference extend the play-off race for a spot in SC

You could go the way of NBL1 with SCM/W and make them have both mens and womens teams that way these clubs are better prepared if they want to make the leap into NBL1 in the future.

Reply #759655 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Two weeks ago

I just noticed I left Pakenham out - I would put them in the southern conf

Reply #759656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Whittlesea must see something in the coach who has won 2 wooden spoons in a row re signing him for the men for 2020

Reply #759661 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

He is actually a very good coach!

Reply #759670 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

@PersonalFoul, just to be clear the area around Greater Geelong no longer has a Corio Bay Association, not after this season, it will likely be Geelong and Bellarine that compete in the BigV.

Reply #759873 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

But the structure laid out is perfect - you should give Big V a call @PersonalFoul!

Reply #759875 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Why are Geelong allowed Big V when they have NBL1?

I thought that was why Bellarine came int this year?

Reply #759881 | Report this post


Blerg  
Two weeks ago

Geelong don't have BigV divisional teams. They only have YL. Same as all the NBL1 clubs.

Reply #759891 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Geelong are applying for Big V under a different association than their NBL1, it will be pretty poor form if Big V allow it but that's what Geelong are trying to do.

Reply #759910 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Might be a good pivot for bigV, let the nbl1 sides have a men's team in the divisions to help them bridge the gap. Don’t allow them to play imports and have a genuine reserves division almost.
We lose a lot of committed players now after ageing out of yl and the senior teams being loaded. Have guys that are 23-28 that still want to play and also get better but are limited doing so.

Reply #759914 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

That would simply kill off smaller clubs.

Reply #759917 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Worked fine in the past.

Reply #759918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Times have changed.

Reply #759942 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

How would allowing more people to play basketball and allowing bigger clubs to bridge the gap between YL and NBL1 level kill of smaller clubs, curious to see the logic here?

Placing limits on Associations and not allowing them to cater for their population growth is surely far worse than giving more players opportunity at a higher level.

The real problem is money and the import payment disparity, which is the likely issue that holds back our game. Get that right and your Association prospers, get that wrong and you go into the red and develop the wrong culture, which takes a long time to fix!

Reply #760429 | Report this post


anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I don't get the view that NBL1 is this elite league with a huge gap from BigV etc.
The difference between the top NBL1 teams and the top SCM teams is probably a couple of players. ie Add a higher quality aussie big to McKinnon and they are super competitive in NBL1.
The roster of gets deep into NBL1 playoffs:
Tomada
Laycock
Williams
Stith
Aussie Big

None of the bigger NBL1 clubs (Nuna, Dandy, Kilsyth etc) could enter a 'reserve' team into BigV and be competitive.

Reply #760446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Fair call Bear but how come other big associations haven't been allowed to do the same in the past, what makes Geelong United a special case?
Surely the powers to be when deciding to merge 2 local clubs had an understanding of how the leagues were structured, especially knowing that 1 of the clubs had to let go of a their Div 1 program last season.
Doesn't sound like their 'placing limits on an association', more so GU want to play by their own rules.

Reply #760447 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The logic is Bear, why would you go play for Casey, Southern Pen etc if you could go play at Frankston, Dandenong etc. with a chance you might get a NBL1 call up. The other side is the NBL1 clubs start dropping players back to win important games in Big V. There is a reason why the league is set up this way. It's not all about Geelong.

Reply #760450 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

Anon^, maybe you don't get the big picture and how things developed, it's not that Geelong want to do it their way, it's that all the powers in Vic basketball, council, government and everyone involved pushed that one voice for basketball in Geelong (similar to say Bendigo & Ballarat) would benefit growth and opportunity to build a stadium like they have and improve every aspect of development in the biggest regional city in the state.

Many working parts, but the upshot is huge and so the merger begins, but not at the cost of players opportunity, so in such a big area with an established NBL1 and BigV programs there is and of course should be concessions.

Of course it's not all about Geelong, don't patronise me, of course in Melbourne you have Associations close by that compete for the best players, you can't eliminate choice all you can do is offer the best of what your club has to attract talent. The big question there is, what is your club doing to retain its talent?

Reply #760454 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

So, to be clear anon^, I would advocate for all Melbourne Associations that can to enter NBL1 and provide BigV senior and YL if they are able to, because as you have pointed out there are talented players who can choose to play where they want.

The upshot for the smaller clubs is that they can offer more local talent to chance to stay at their club and play BigV if that's where they are at and those of a higher standard can choose to move and play NBL1 if they wish!

We should be offering more opportunity, not less, I will direct you to my other post above about imports and that where this area of financial constraints gets out of hand is the real cause of many problems, not that of local players who should be better treated IMHO...

Reply #760459 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Reply #760462 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

One thing, we're not sacking our local, loyal coach to bring in someone from the outside with the premise of bringing in Aussie talent from elsewhere as well as potentially cutting off a direct pathway to NBL1.
And in the case of Ballarat and Bendigo, why haven't they had the opportunity to have a second senior side?
Has there been handshake deals done between GU, NBL1 and BV to get this through?

Reply #760463 | Report this post


anon  
Two weeks ago

very interesting!!

Reply #760465 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

Anon^, the rich get richer because they have large stadiums, great programs, offer development and opportunity, so of course they appear to have the money so I am saying use it if you want and be more inclusive. It should be choice, but obviously the BigV and NBL1 have final say.

If the Melbourne market in a specific zone is saturated, fine sort it out, but in Geelong's case like other regional zones there is a need for another BigV program, so be it. Why restrict obvious needs!

Hand shake deals is a stretch, call it what you like, agreements towards common goals are made everywhere, nothing sinister just the ability to grow and consolidate resources I would suggest.

As for the comments about sacking coaches or any other BS you want to go on with, I am not entertaining slanderous remarks today, cheers!

Reply #760470 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

It's not about having large stadiums, small associations also have great programs and a lot of them punch above their weight with respect to VC and Big V teams.

It's about smaller associations who have a $20k Big V budget competing against associations that have a $500k NBL1/Big V budget.

It will severely hurt the 35 other association if the big 12 can enter another team. You will loose your better local players to the larger associations which will force clubs to play players not up to standard.

The small clubs will be a feeder program for the larger clubs and that's not just in Melbourne, Bellarine has lost juniors for years to Geelong.

Reply #760475 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

Anon^, you are making my points for me, do you realise I am on your side with most of what you are saying?

Yes, regulate the competition according to what is needed and what is going to create more opportunity but at the same time don't restrict it where it needs expansion and yes budgets are a problem which is why the import situation needs consideration.

Bellarine's example isn't clear, they have a captured market if they want it, why not point at their management and what they have or have not done to foster growth of the game in the area they can control rather than blame kids wanting to play elsewhere...

When I compare what Surfcoast is getting and the way their council is supporting basketball and other sports like soccer compared to that of the Bellarine it is obvious where the issues are!

Reply #760479 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Council???

Reply #760480 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Again Bear, surely the board or however it is set up knew the parameters or restrictions of the leagues.
If GU have more than 1 team Big V as well as an NBL1 team, doesn't this restrict movement and development for players?
What other associations are in the area that could accommodate a Big V program?

Reply #760481 | Report this post


anon  
Two weeks ago


Anonymous
A few hours ago

The logic is Bear, why would you go play for Casey, Southern Pen etc if you could go play at Frankston, Dandenong etc. with a chance you might get a NBL1 call up. The other side is the NBL1 clubs start dropping players back to win important games in Big V. There is a reason why the league is set up this way. It's not all about Geelong.


each club in NBL1 can only enter 1 team, so that means the likely hood of playing for them is already reduced if you go by available players, you can only have 2 or 3 in each position on a team, so if players are good enough to play at that level they are more likely to be selected, they cant just say thats where I want to go, if they are not up to it, but having other associations even the same association with a BigV team under running their NBL1 program give more opportunities for more players to play at a decent level. The more chances they get to play the better, and if your good enough you can get those spots in the higher level.

Reply #760503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Well said!

Reply #760627 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

In response to #760503

Why not just bar players from playing in another league once they've already entered into a higher one? E.g you could play Big V then get promoted to NBL 1 but once you're up in NBL 1 thats it you can't go back down.

Reply #760635 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Last week

I am sure the Northern Football League and others have used a points system regarding players, 10 points for ex-NBL, 8 points for a SEABL/ NBL1 player etc etc like a salary cap in a way.

I think who cares if you can convince ($$$) a player to play a down a level of a great standard to help you get up why not, this has been happening for years in semi-pro sport have a look at non-league soccer in England is famous for clubs getting recently retire league footballers to play of small time clubs.

Reply #761329 | Report this post


Bear  
Last week

So, we all agree, the BigV and NBL1 need to cooperate, amend their rules and restrictions to be more flexible while at the same time enhance their operating procedures and be more accountable for the standards and conditions of entry, to ensure not only inclusion and expansion where it is needed but also limit the potential for over saturation where it exists or is likely to!

Great..........

Reply #761366 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

What's the bet Big V stays exactly the same in 2020

Reply #761590 | Report this post


A A Ron  
Last week

Couple of D1M teams will go to SCM.
Couple of D2M teams will go to D1M.
Possible new team in D2M.

Numbers will then be evened out properly.

Reply #761611 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Corio Bay relegated?

Reply #761615 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Corio Bay are no longer, merging with Basketball Geelong

Reply #761623 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Wallan Men are playing D1M next year given some big time things happening. Gives them a massive edge over Craigieburn as a club.Watch this space.

Reply #761912 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who is the new team in Div 2?

Reply #761913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who are the extra teams that will be promoted in D1M and D2M?

Reply #761970 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

How does Wallan go from just making
Finals to being promoted?

No coach announcement either. I doubt that
very much.

Reply #761976 | Report this post


Anon  
Last week

Why would Wallan go? Lose first game of finals after being 5th. The only teams that should be going up from d2M are Southern Pen and Camberwell. The clear 1 and 2 from all of last season and the teams that were in the grand final. D1M should be Sunbury and another one or two.

Reply #761987 | Report this post


Anon  
Last week

Talk is cheap, anyone can bragged about their roster for a new season but then come season start that roster can be totally different, again unless you make play offs you should not be granted promotion, makes a joke of the system if you can go up without being a team that earnt the right.

Reply #761993 | Report this post


Anon  
Last week

Yes, exactly^

Reply #762005 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Strong rumour going around that no one will be promoted except the championship winning teams. No relegation either.

That will make D1M 14 teams and D2 12

Reply #762020 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Lol, Wallan to D1 is wishful thinking, get in line

Reply #762021 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Interesting as applications still open until next Friday.

Above who has the inside info.

Where does the Corio Bay / Geelong merger teams fit in

Reply #762036 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Rumours are they are applying for D1

Reply #762038 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

OK thanks. Nice to see Trae Young back ang Rumors on players

Reply #762041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Mildura are a bottom of Div 2 team without Henry playing so they wont be going up. They lost to Maccabi at the Hothouse without him.

Reply #762043 | Report this post


Anon  
Last week

To be fair that sentiment probably goes for most D2 teams. You take the import(s) off of the other top teams and they probably don't do much.

Reply #762047 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Yes! ^^ and applies to Wallan so how they'd move up is confusing

Reply #762079 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Same in D1M. If you take the imports out of the top teams they rubbish

Reply #762093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

To be fair, Calvin Henry isn't an import...

Reply #762747 | Report this post




 

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