Who cares about the salary cap. They signed him. Great for Australia, but not great for competition. There still is only 5 players on the court at one time and one basketball, but that essentially is where the positives end for the rest of the teams.
"Cram, according to Bogut how much their team costs is dramatically incorrect and they are not anywhere remotely close to projections, so you never know. Maybe Cooks signed for $45k?"
And maybe he signed for free because he's getting great exposure right?
When the top team in the league, that is top with a star sidelined, a dubious next star (import), and arguably the most expensive or one off the most expensive rosters assembled signs what would have been a World Cup (not qualifiers) Aussie boomer, yeah I think fans can question the direction of the competition. Starting to stink of overseas soccer.
Does it mean they win it all, no, are they the overwhelming favourites yes. Do I hope it all falls apart spectacularly, no doubt. Do I think it will, not a chance.
(Did they? Only one team has got a current Boomers coach as their head coach...not sure that puts all teams on a level playing field for recruiting talent.)
Why? all the NBL teams can sign whoever they want are you suggesting Will Weaver (who was an assistant coach for the boomers and hasn't been named in the new role as yet) had some sort of inside knowledge and used it to his advantage?
All NBL teams had a chance to sign him, it sounds like your team needs a better head coach and more money.
(I'm guessing you're not old enough to know what happened to the league the last time there was an arms race.)
Maybe, I've only been following the NBL since 1988 it’s had its ups and downs in that time but this year is the best it’s ever been.
But it definitely sounds like your team needs more money or a better coach.
Pfft. A lot of bitter folks here. Even with Cooks I doubt Sydney are outspending Melbourne, but I also don't give a shit either way. If we can afford him, great. Like has been said already, anyone could have signed him, and the multi-year deal is probably what made this work. I'm sure Weaver didn't hurt, especially if he's still an assistant with the Boomers. Helps that he seems a pretty likable and knowledgeable coach with good US/NBA connections. Good stuff (for a Kings fan), but I don't see it as "unfair".
I also don't think this moves the needle significantly one way or the other this season, but a great future signing and a guy who should slot in to Lisch/Newleys starting spot when they retire.
I don't barrack for any team as such, just a big follower of the league in general. I’m very happy Xavier is now on board in the comp!
I understand the frustration of other team supporters, but putting together a legendary team doesn’t guarantee a title. Will still has to 'weave’ his magic and manage PT, cohesion and all that.
How are Melbourne outspending Sydney? Sydney have MUCH more depth, already had Bogut on $1m plus per season, and then landed Ware after Melbourne could not afford to match the money that Sydney put to him. Sydney are spending significantly more than Melbourne, no doubts, who are spending significantly more than Cairns. But since it is allowed, it is not like Sydney are cheating by doing so (Didi as next star issue aside), and it should not be used as a slur against them or any potential successes that come their way.
"But it definitely sounds like your team needs more money"
Why do you keep saying this? If one team is allowed to spend $4mill, and most of the other teams can only afford to spend $1mill, then all teams need more money.
Where is this money coming from?
Yeah, credit to them for buying a title while other teams go broke.
but that still doesnt answer my question. where do the poorer clubs get money from? why should they have to make money magically appear just to keep up with a team that is spending four times as much?
If you cannot afford a house on Hollywood Boulevard, then don't complain about the people who can.
If you cannot afford an NBL team, or the cost of competing in the NBL is no longer sustainable for you, then either sell your team or change something. Cairns have the ability to find very solid imports on the cheap. Their talent identification in that respect is above average. There are other ways to improve and be competitive besides just "keeping up with the Jones"
(Why do you keep saying this? If one team is allowed to spend $4mill, and most of the other teams can only afford to spend $1mill, then all teams need more money. )
Wow 1mil no wonder your team is doing so badly. Are you saying the kings spend 4 million and all the other teams in the league are spending 1 million, pleeeeese
"If you cannot afford a house on Hollywood Boulevard, then don't complain about the people who can."
That is completely understating the point. When your livelihood depends on attracting people to the games, which becomes increasingly difficult as your team becomes less and less competitive, then its not about being envious, its about a lack of parity in the competition.
Your solution for the poorer clubs seems to be "have you tried being less poor?" Well done, ScoMo.
Literally every championship winning team bought a title, unless guys were playing for free. Perth have long been one of the top spenders in the league, so it's a bit rich (pardon the pun) for Perth fans to get salty now. Perth will be in the fight come finals time, no doubt, and Cotton would be one of the top 3-5 paid guys in the league at absolute worst.
Lets be honest, if you cant see how wrong this is, then your are either a troll or a retard, and either way should be banned for life.
Sydney were already spending millions more than any other team. That is an indisputable fact. So please stop pretending all these great players are playing for peanuts just for the privilege of playing for Sydney.
Just because Blogut says they should make salaries public, knowing full well that they never will, doesn't make his claims true.
Clearly Sydney are nolonger bothering to comply with the 5-man cap, so yeah, blatant cheating.
As people rightly point out, it was challenging for teams to keep up with Perth, Melbourne, and NZ. How are they supposed to manage when Sydney is now spending 3 time that amount.
This is extremely bad for the league. Anyone that refuses to see that is fucked in the head.
"Perth have long been one of the top spenders in the league"
Perth also spend within their means and make a profit most years. Can you say the same about Sydney? Is their current model sustainable? If not, what happens when the owners call it a day?
"Your racecar is too fast. Either slow your car down, or give me more money so I can throw it at my car, blindly, in the hope of at least keeping pace with you."
Not the way the real competitive world works my friend. As I said, if you cannot keep up, or cannot afford to be competitive, then you shouldn't be owning a team in the NBL. Sell up and go buy one in the Philippines.
Man your so angry you should try and relax a little bit. This doesn't mean Sydney is going to win the title and there is no proof Sydney are spending more money than any other team. Until we have the figures don’t make shit up.
What gives you the authority to decide who’s f¥cked in the head everyone has the right to their own opinions. Is that you scomo?
So refute the point. Just because you say it is stupider does not make it so, and it does not prove that it is accurate.
Cairns have a terrific scouting and talent identification team and get bargain imports like Scott Machado and Melo Trimble for peanuts compared to other import guards in the league such as Bryce Cotton and Casper Ware.
Head to head, some games the Cairns guards may outplay their higher fancied opponents. Should Perth or Melbourne then cry because they are paying more for these players and should be reimbursed by the league because there are cheaper options out there which can still put up solid performances, but they are spending more than these other teams? If it works one way, can it also work on the flipside?
Sydney did not break any rules. They decided they could afford to pay Cooks, and they were comfortable doing so. Cooks agreed to the contract, so he knows where he will fit, how many options are around him, and that his numbers and opportunities will not be as high as they would have been elsewhere. There was nothing illegal about it, from Sydney or from Cooks. Stop sooking.
It means that despite my investment, and despite my car being so much faster than yours, I still was not guaranteed success and someone else - maybe even your car - will ultimately achieve the victory. See, the system works. No need for reforms or parity or handouts. Nothing is guaranteed until it is won.
A lot of wankers have been getting stuck in to Joey this year. but the fact is that he has always done a good job building a team within his budget. Should have had another championship 4 years ago, and would have had another 2 years ago except for LK and bent refs,
But we have no hope now.
I wish I was a "Salty Perf Fan" at least I would have all those championships to console me.
We might as well give up and go play in the Premier League cos we have no chance in this new league Larry has created.
lol @ Sixers should have won except for "bent refs". Game 2 and game 4, absolutely ridiculous free throw disparity to even make it a series. Get off the terps mate. If Adelaide were good enough they would have won, and they spend more than most, just on the wrong pieces. They are far from a budget team.
I've been all for teams spending big over the soft cap to attract the best talent to the league, even defending the Didi signing to a degree, but this kings team now is just a complete joke. The amount of money pumped into it is ridiculous.
Will be hilarious if they don't win the championship.
Melbourne, sports and basketball capital of Australia= GF win to MU recently, MU still strong, second team good first season so far.
Perth, most successful NBL franchise= consistently good crowds over time, healthiest finances of any team.
Sydney, Australia's biggest city, always struggled for support of NBL teams= better crowds, PR coach for 3 seasons, serious coach and stacked roster now, widely tipped to win GF.
Auckland/NZ, successful club, new ownership, problematic season.
Adelaide= Adelaide, strong history, good crowds, but not at pointy end now.
Cairns and Illawarra= small market clubs, currently both receiving NBL assistance.
The NBL needed success for Melbourne, and got enough success to expand there. The NBL also needs success in Sydney, to gain market and corporate traction.
As long as Sydney don’t end up winning too many, I don’t mind it as it’s for the greater good. The NBL will have success in the 2 most important markets. Better than all the ships going to Australia’s westernmost bogan outpost. Success in the west hasn’t translated to success Australia wide. How involved were the national media in Perth’s successful years, compared to Sydney and Ballawarra now?
Anyone asking for evidence or saying others need to spend more, or saying Kings are spending big clearly has nfi lol.
Even if some estimates of what teams are spending are off, it doesn't take a genius to realise the kings and Melbourne are spending massive money this year, quite possibly the most expensive 2 rosters in NBL history.
Who mentioned F1, or any other governed motor racing organization? All that was said was race car. Could be down at my local, could be street, could be whatever. You cannot call someone stupid by implying something that was not even said as though they said it.
(Are you the same person arguing that other clubs should just spend more?)
Spend more wisely like Cairns or if it's to much money for your club to keep up your club should join the nbl1 series.
Inflation goes up every year every day every minute, would you like inflation to stop so your team can afford players at the same price as 10 years ago?
How do you change things and keep it the same at the same time?
There is meant to be a bench cap though, that i thought was a hard cap of sorts. Perth arguably need more depth, but you would think the bench cap prevents them splashing the cash, united too. People are outraged because sydney is legitimately say 8 deep when most teams "big spending teams" are 6 deep
"Spend more wisely like Cairns or if it's to much money for your club to keep up your club should join the nbl1 series.
Inflation goes up every year every day every minute, would you like inflation to stop so your team can afford players at the same price as 10 years ago?
How do you change things and keep it the same at the same time?"
This theory sounds great. Enjoy your 3-4 team NBL comp.
I'm all for the big spending, but i think there should be some sort of cap on the soft cap, or at least massive taxes (which are released publicly).
You do realize that a cap on the soft cap eliminates it being a soft cap, right? NBA teams are allowed to spend as much as they want, but there is a soft cap and a hard cap. If a team chooses to go over the hard cap, the other 29 teams and their fans don't cry foul, they just pay their luxury tax bill at the end of the year. There are no tears shed about parity or expenses or league handouts from anyone. They are limited in HOW they can acquire additional talent, but technically they don't have to worry about any ceiling except what they impose internally. If the NBL rules don't have a hard cap, then Sydney did nothing wrong.
With Sydney being this strong and the aim is to try and win the championship, whats to stop the lower to middle end club members just cancelling their memberships because they've got no chance at a title? That's terrible for the NBL and those clubs. Yes you still have the passionate fans who go the the game night atmosphere and because they lover their team, but there would be plenty that will double think if they renew their memberships.
Yeah Sydney haven't won the title yet, but they'd need a whole lot to go wrong to bet against them.
Oh no, the NBL is just like nearly every other sporting league in the world with haves and have nots. Hell, even small market teams in the NBA struggle to attract stars outside of draft lottery luck. Not that long ago the Hawks, Taipans, and Breakers were some of the strongest teams in the league. Could well happen again - the success of the league SHOULD have a trickle down effect, especially in terms of sponsorship. The profile of the league has never been higher.
(Sustainable growth is how you do it. )
So your saying every team in the league should be as good as the worst team in the league? How is that growth? How is that sustainable if everyone one gets board and turns of the tv?
Every team in the league is making more money than ever before, using that money to build a better team and league is a good way to make sustainable growth.
"(Sustainable growth is how you do it. )
So your saying every team in the league should be as good as the worst team in the league? How is that growth?"
Well no because what you described is not sustainable growth. Good try though.
"Every team in the league is making more money than ever before"
They are? Even those with dwindling crowd numbers? Prove it.
(So you want a three team competition then...)
It shouldn't bother you the NBL1 has heaps of teams.
Do all the nba teams spend the same amount ? Or are there rich teams and poor teams? Are all the afl or NRL teams spending the same amount? What about the bbl?
"You can just tell Angus is caught between wanting to see his team succeed no matter the cost, while naively hoping it all turns out for the best."
Not true at all. I don't have any reason to think the Kings are hanging on by a thread financially though. I would prefer to finish last than not exist at all, something which has happened to the Kings already.
"I don't need too the NBL has all the figures on this record breaking year, all the numbers are up on previous years.
If your team isn't making money this year they should give it away."
Oh sorry, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt of you being able to understand basic maths. My mistake.
My team does make money. It does every year. Its the other teams I am worried about cos there is no point being a profitable NBL team if you dont have any competition to play against.
(My team does make money. It does every year. Its the other teams I am worried about cos there is no point being a profitable NBL team if you dont have any competition to play against.)
A lot of teams have come and gone from the NBL over the last 40 years but now Sydney have signed cooks it's going to fold the league?
It might just be an Australian thing, but I like my competition to resemble competition.
AFL for instance, yes there are teams that have prolonged success: Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn; but every club in the last 20 years have enjoyed their fair share of premiership-contending years. With exception to Essendon/Carlton who got done in cheating scandles that scarred them for extended periods (although did enjoy highly successful years prior).
It's not an issue for teams to not be in real contention - that's inevitable, some teams do well some teams won't each season.
But a system which is designed to resign you to the bottom few teams every year with no visible way out? (unlike AFL which has draft and spending isn't an issue)
People are obviously likely to bail. With that, voila, 4 team league. That's absolutely a useless result for everyone.
That's what makes this offseason so critical - we've had 1) very competitive years recently and 2) lots of talent come in which is a wonderful situation for the NBL. However, despite Cairns/Illawarra being relatively competitive over the recent years, they are starting to slide last year, this year. I don't think we can just assume that's an ups and down situation, the haves/have nots situation may just kill them off in 2-3 years.
"You must have all the answers, so what does sustainable growth in the NBL look like to you?"
Growth that is achievable for all teams, at a steady pace. If the league makes some money in year one, increase the salary cap, attract some more talent, make the league more exciting and competitive, and have fans wanting to come back for. And they did that for the first couple of years.
Then suddenly one or two teams went full steam ahead with their spending, rules were changed to gift one team a fourth import, these team are up the top of the tables, yet it remains to be seen whether that spending can last for them, or if it has resulted with ongoing fan engagement.
Meanwhile, the teams that aren't spending the same money are not competitive, crowds are not great, and that is only going to make it harder for them next year if their operating budget drops.
So the rich teams pull away from the pack for a season or two, their owners may not get a good return on investment so they pull the pin, and the poor teams need a leg up from the league, however there is zero transparency as to whether that is working as intended.
United top six players are on big coin, McCarron was playing in Europe and United out bid them. Casper went to Sydney re lies he was told re salary, yes he got a pay rise but Melbourne have spent more now on Trimble and Long is even more.
Club budget should be where supporters can see, not individual but team budgets.
Obviously I'm sorry to see our assistant coach's son sign with another team, but this has reignited a conversation Hawks fans have been trying to push for a while. How can the NBL say it wants a balanced competition with regional teams, but on the other hand allow such a widening gap between the rich and poor?
I can see the soft salary cap working for what it was set out to do - allow wealthy owners to bring genuine stars to the league and pay them accordingly. But the equalisation tax payments are nowhere near commensurate to the overspending on rosters.
The NBL only distributes the luxury tax to help clubs spend to the salary floor, not even the cap. So no matter how much more the Kings spend and pay their taxes, the benefit payments to equalise the competition stay the same. The NBL just pockets the difference.
The Kings owner has been typically bullish in his response to the Cooks signing, which is the way he's choosing to do business. And he's rightly claiming they're not doing anything illegal. But can he look at his roster and the Hawks and think it's a fair fight?
There's a lot of Hawks and Taipans bashing online, but these clubs provide a great sporting contribution to the cities. It would be nice if the NBL did a little more to share the wealth.
(There's a lot of Hawks and Taipans bashing online, but these clubs provide a great sporting contribution to the cities. It would be nice if the NBL did a little more to share the wealth.)
Not enough fans in Illawarra or Cairns to compete with the city teams it's all about the money, that’s why LK is looking to Asia to expand the NBL and that’s why nbl1 was formed. Don’t get me wrong I like both of those teams but the writing has been on the wall for them for a long time now just not enough fans. And the fans they do have are just to stubborn to find a better ways to get new fans.
OK so we get (sort of) the soft cap. No rules broken there because there are few to break.
What about the 400K max for the bench guys. A hard cap I believe.
Kuany was one of those making up that cap you would certainly say. Now Cooks has replaced him. You could also almost certainly say that Cooks is not on Kuany coin.
So how do they still fit the bench 400K hard cap?
Why would he walk out on his Euro contract to come here for a pittance, regardless of what he's offered for next year? Especially when one of his stated goals was to play in a few different countries just for the travel and to experience different environments.
Yet people dismissed Bogut's idea to publicise salaries.
I can see why Cooks would prefer to join Sydney. Boomers exposure via Weaver. NBA scout exposure alongside Didi. There is a chance that Didi could be snapped up by the Pelicans soon. The report is a multi-year deal, so there is also a chance that Cooks signed for not much this season, but earning much more next season as players like Newley/Lisch might be not returning. There was also a report in the off-season about Longley giving Bogut advice about not retiring too late to risk body issues, which Bogut might be heeding. Sydney might have eyed Cooks as a marquee replacement for Bogut, to be paid more in the 2020-21 season.
Newley and Lisch are contracted for next season, Newley has had his best season since returning to nbl, Lisch still injury woes. Kings have so many wing type players, they play a one and five and rest run lanes and all switchable on D. This is a good signing for the future of the kings, certainly if Bogut retires and they need import money for a good five man. Bogut is near irreplaceable no matter what homicide says. The new owners management seem to be trying to build a dynasty, and spreading the age difference out so it doesn't all go to shit at once, exactly what Bevo set up in Perth and Gleeson has continued on. Kings looking at another massive crowd on Sunday against United so with healthy crowds you would think their money stream is doing very well.
Good management delivers, I’m a neutral but I like what kings are up to.
Adelaide has the whole state as a fan base and are a better team than there win loss would suggest. With a bit more cash they would be contenders, they almost beat Sydney a few weeks ago.
Perth has a whole state fan base also.
Illawarra and Cairns are so limited on how big they can grow, if they could expand their boundaries they might achieve sustainable growth. If not it don't its not looking good for them.
So basically you're saying bye to Hawks, Taipans and 36ers then. That makes a 6 team league.
Great plan, will work hugely.
I’m sure that will make it all the more compelling to attract investors - a group of people notorious for short lived ownership.
Long term plan? Perth champions AND wooden spooners every year
(So basically you're saying bye to Hawks, Taipans and 36ers then. That makes a 6 team league. )
Adelaide is fine they have a whole state behind them. And they have unlucky this year.
Taipans could change to north qld taipans to get more fans better investors and sponsors qld government included.
Wollongong/Illawarra is basically connected to Sydney, they need to use that to their advantage before LK brings in a new Sydney team, if and when that happens the hawks are fawked.
The NBL are going to expand over the next few years with tas a new Melbourne , Sydney and possibly Canberra then LK is looking at Asia for a few more teams.
Are Illawarra and Cairns prepared for that?
"Are all the afl or NRL teams spending the same amount?"
Technically, NRL teams are. The NRL has a $9.6m salary cap in place (each club has a 30 man squad which must fit under the cap) and clubs aren't allowed to spend over that. Some do, but there are penalties and if its bad enough then things like what happened with the Melbourne Storm being stripped of premiership wins can happen.
Rugby league introduced the salary cap back in the early 90s and its main purpose was to try and stop clubs, especially the less financially sound ones, sending themselves broke trying to buy a premiership. The whole thing was originally designed to level the playing field as no one club could spend millions more for big name players than another, although inevitably despite limits on overall spending its still the bigger, richer and more successful clubs who would attract the better players.
The cap still exists, but its a lot more complicated and harder to police due to things like Third Party Agreements (TPA's - basically players personal sponsors which are included in player contracts, but not the cap itself). And of course, there are always rumours about clubs spending well over the cap and the ways some get around it.
Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.
- Updated every 15 minutes
Thu 18:13- re: NBL Knockout competition...
Thu 17:16- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 17:04- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 16:36- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 16:27- re: Cairns Taipans Player Ra...
Thu 16:17- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 15:11- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 14:43- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 14:21- re: Cairns Taipans Player Ra...
Thu 14:13- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 14:01- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 13:29- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 13:21- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 12:48- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 12:24- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 12:21- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 12:18- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 12:16- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 12:15- re: Cairns Taipans Player Ra...
Thu 12:15- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 12:13- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 12:11- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 11:37- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 10:56- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Thu 10:54- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 10:45- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 10:23- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 10:21- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 10:12- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 10:11- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 10:03- re: Boomers and Opals 2021
Thu 9:53- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Thu 9:51- re: Clarifying the Kings com...
Thu 9:31- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Thu 9:26- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 9:24- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 9:21- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 8:47- re: Tasmania NBL hopefuls to...
Thu 8:44- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 7:56- re: Tasmania NBL hopefuls to...
Thu 6:09- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 5:16- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Thu 1:29- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Wed 23:58- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Wed 23:47- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Wed 23:34- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Wed 21:50- re: Illawarra Hawks ownershi...
Wed 21:45- re: Retirement decision will...
Wed 21:37- re: Tasmania NBL hopefuls to...
Wed 21:36- re: Are the Hobart Devils a ...
Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.
$30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!
An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 7:45 pm, Thu 2 Apr 2020 | Posts: 829,785 | Last 7 days: 581