Anonymous
Earlier this year

Are referees in NBL calling too many soft fouls ?

I pretty much watch most of the NBL Games each round and it feels like the referee situation is hurting the flow and impact of the game. Could the great forwards and centres in our hall of fame actually stay on court in todays NBL game.

Concerns:
* Almost every import centre gets into foul trouble. Doesnt matter they have played 5-10 seasons in Europe or NBA - over here any slight contact is called. I dont want to see Long, Bogut, Griffith sitting on the bench its a joke
* Incidental contact called on rebounding
* Too many soft travels being called
* Too many moving screens with very minor contact called
* Not letting big guys bang a bit

Refs can you please swallow the whistle and let the guys play. Shouldnt be team fouls every quarter for virtually every game I watch. Its ruining the spectacle.

Topic #46634 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

a 6 feet ref doesn't know how to ref 6 7 plus

Reply #783773 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

Agreed. Let's go back to the 60-65 thriller scorelines and WWE playstyle of earlier this decade.

We know the standard of reffing isn't great, so soft/phantom foul calls are unfortunately inevitable.

Players need to be smart enough to adjust: if you keep pushing the limits of the refs, you're going to get pinged. Bigs in general struggle for the reason you think: they aren't too bright.

For example, half the screens being set are technically moving and therefore offensive fouls. Big's often blatantly shove in the back during rebounding contests, or just grapple instead - complaining when they don't get the call, and if they're pinged for it.

It must be tough to adjudicate when you should be blowing the whistle every 15 seconds, but also have a mandate to keep the game flowing. Players need to do their part.

Reply #783780 | Report this post


Mystro  
Earlier this year

As a Breakers fan it frustrates me that Ashley is constantly in foul trouble.
I watch the game again and most of the calls are correct on him.
He needs to adjust not the Refs.

Reply #783783 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Scores jacked up by FT attempts make things real exciting playmakermo!

Reply #783785 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think the referees need to do a better job communicating to players and coaches WHY they made the call. In the recent Breakers game Shamir asked the referee what he should tell the player to do. The ref said tell him not to foul. How are you meant to coach players when that's the quality of feedback some referees give?

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LV  
Earlier this year

Agreed- too many soft fouls are being called

However, this doesn't meant I want a return to the reffing of 7 or 8 years ago.

We just need to find a happy medium.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Is there any statistical evidence to say that the higher scoring games comes from more FTs? I'd say no.

Reply #783791 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

"Scores jacked up by FT attempts make things real exciting playmakermo"
As PlaymakerMo argued, if the players play to the whistle, the fouls (and free throws) won't be as numerous.

Re high scoring, there are around 200 possessions per game these days. It’s hard to set up and play effective defence with only 10-12 seconds per possession.

Given the basic premise of this thread, has anyone run the numbers to see if we have more fouls per 40 minutes this season than past NBL seasons?

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Duke Fan  
Earlier this year

Someone put this thread in a time capsule so we can look back in 20 years and see that the reffing is still shit. Just like it was 20 years ago

Reply #783793 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Who decides what is a soft foul or a true foul. Refs got a hard enough job as it is, to now try and decipher which is hard or soft foul you are kidding me. A foul is a foul, sometimes it goes with you and sometimes against. I'll be honest those picky little travels annoy me but more so because the ones under the basket that get missed or the three step lay up. Call all travels.

Perth are once on the wrong end of a foul count and it’s all the refs fault.

Reply #783796 | Report this post


Mystro  
Earlier this year

As long as they are calling the game exactly the same at both ends no one should be complaining.
Most fouls on the bigs are pushing off when rebounding, 2 hands on the offensive player, moving screens etc those are not soft fouls unworthy of being called.

Reply #783798 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

"Scores jacked up by FT attempts make things real exciting playmakermo!"

Just to confirm: you prefer scorelines of 50-70 on a regular basis? You find wrestling exciting? If so, you're on the wrong site.

"Given the basic premise of this thread, has anyone run the numbers to see if we have more fouls per 40 minutes this season than past NBL seasons?"

19/20 season: 20.5 fouls, 104 points per 100 possessions

11/12 season: 19.1 fouls, 116 points per 100 possessions

Yeah, we have it so much worse now /s

Reply #783799 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

Whoops those points per 100 should be reversed:

19/20 season: 20.5 fouls, 116 points per 100 possessions

11/12 season: 19.1 fouls, 104 points per 100 possessions

Reply #783800 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this year

Who decides what is a soft foul or a true foul.


99.3% of the time: the losing team and its fans.

Reply #783802 | Report this post


paul  
Earlier this year

"Agreed. Let's go back to the 60-65 thriller scorelines and WWE playstyle of earlier this decade."

It doesn't need to be call everything or call nothing.

That's been the problem with NBL reffing over the years, it has rarely been able to find the nuance that good overseas competitions have that mean they don't allow scrappy out-of-cylinder defence but do allow good positional defence and are smart enough to understand when contact is incidental.

Reply #783803 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Earlier this year

The NBL is like every other sports league around the world and dealing with the "whichever team cheats better has a higher chance of winning." That's all sport is now, to see who can push the boundaries the most, who can get away with the most and get more calls. There is just too much money on the line for it to be any other way. Who'd be an official in any sport? It's a guessing game as to whether a player is infringing or not. A way to stem it might be (as suggested by someone else) to retrospectively fine and suspend players for "faking" being hit and falling over. Start taking their cash and watch them "fall" into line.

Reply #783804 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

I just had a quick look at SpatialJam and got the following to supplement PlaymakerMo's stats:

2019/20 41.1 fouls per game
2018/19 40.1
2017/18 39.8
2016/17 43.0
2015/16 40.6
2009/10 to 2014/15 39.5

The change back to a 40 minute game happened from 2009/10. Finals are included. I've not adjusted for overtime games to calculate per 40 minute averages.

Reply #783806 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

"It doesn't need to be call everything or call nothing.

That's been the problem with NBL reffing over the years"

You just made my point, Paul. In reality, it does need to be one or the other because the standard of refereeing and/or emphases don't allow for a middle-ground fans, players and coaches would prefer.

Reply #783810 | Report this post


paul  
Earlier this year

I understanding what you're saying, and that has merit to it, but I don't agree entirely, because I think the shifts required are so small that they are achievable.

Reply #783813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

simple answer - yes

Reply #783821 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

Fair enough, Paul. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I don't think it will happen any time soon.

Reply #783830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yes. No video replays in the first 5 minutes of each quarter would be a good start.

Reply #783831 | Report this post


paul  
Earlier this year

Until the final two minutes of the game would be great! The exception could be checking three-pointers at the next time out.

Reply #783879 | Report this post


Not quite right  
Earlier this year

This has all come about due to the Weaver situation where he was thrown. The aftermath was the officials have been instructed to go back to the ticky touch foul calls because that's what the coaches wanted, their playmakers able to create without restriction....

Reply #783884 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

What annoys me is what I would call the lack of holistic consistency.
ie: Whilst they may be consistently calling foul 'X', and consistently not calling 'Y', the overall effect appears inconsistent.

And at the end of the day, its not as though the "rules" are some universal constant carved in stone. The rules exist to make the game work, and if current interpretations are making it work less well, then they should be corrected.

I am also sick to death of the obvious bias against certain big men.
I haven't watched him closely this year, but Jawai used to be mugged by the refs every game. It's no wonder some of the big imports struggle to adjust when they can't even get the same call at each end of the court.
And the "they need to learn to adapt" argument doesn't necessarily hold up. If they are coming from college or the NBA, sure, different rules. But you've got guys who have been playing internationally for years, ostensibly under FIBA rules, but suddenly the NBL is different?

And the thing is, its NOT as if they call everything. There is a lot of contact out there that they let go, because it's clearly incidental, but then they call other soft stuff that is not only incidental but instigated by the offensive player.

Reply #783890 | Report this post


Shayno  
Earlier this year

Not on the box outs!

Reply #783895 | Report this post


FM  
Earlier this year

Griffin is suffering from the same philosophy at each end. He finishes well in traffic and I can't recall him flopping. Despite being bashed to death, he makes the bucket.

Down the other end, people get a simple body on body contact and then drop like sacks of shit.

Going to the gym should not be a foul.

Consistency between the group is what is missing. You have 2 refs reading one book and the other looks like he is off on the PlayStation. Something that was a no call let go and let them play 10 seconds earlier is now a foul. Our 2 full time refs have issues with changing their philosophy throughout the game. It doesn’t help the situation.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"This has all come about due to the Weaver situation where he was thrown."

I highly doubt Weaver's tantrum resulted in league-wide interpretation changes.

Reply #783898 | Report this post


Not quite right  
Earlier this year

It did, and also saw the introduction of a meeting 80mins prior to tip off where the clubs can send an assistant coach to the referee room to watch clips put out by the league to help understand of interpretation on calls. Not every club has taken the opportunity, some have grasped it with both hands.

Reply #783941 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Too many soft fouls called on the defence in dribble penetration situations. Too many silly fouls committed by players when setting screens.

Reply #783960 | Report this post


paul  
Earlier this year

Good summary anon. Also add in the holding fouls for the slightest contact with players fighting over screens. Sure, call clear grabs, but often it is just brushing contact as they go past that has no impact on the game.

Reply #783968 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

"But you've got guys who have been playing internationally for years, ostensibly under FIBA rules, but suddenly the NBL is different?"

Yes, the NBL is different regarding interpretations.

Reply #783972 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

It shouldnt be too different to FIBA , unless the game is being sped up or improved from a spectacle point of view. The differences we see delay the game, put stars on the bench and generally frustrate fans.

Differences should be about improvement. Eg. Jumpball being returned as a fan favourite.

Reply #783996 | Report this post


Trev  
Earlier this year

Hunt for the Wildcats smashed the refs in the media. Saying what he did across the globe he can't do here. He even said that what was not called at the start of the season is being called now and vice versa. He said that even every week brings up different calls for very similar plays, and he said ref #1 may call it a foul, yet ref #2 may call it differently later on within the same game.

International people watching this will find it confusing in that what they thought was not a foul is actually a foul in our league.

Need to have some flexibility going on because we want international people watching the players and the action, not watching the game with a rule book in their hands.

Reply #784060 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Hunt is perennial traveler and fouler. Not certain the nbl should be taking advice from him, Gleeson gives the refs enough as it is.

Reply #784086 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Earlier this year

"Too many travels being called"
Thanks for the laughs,let's get rid of all the rules shall we?

Reply #784103 | Report this post


raas  
Earlier this year

The fouls are ridiculous, and it's becoming tiresome to watch. I purposely delay watching live games so that I can fast forward through all of the wasted time in fouls/free-throws and petty calls that hold the game up.
If they chilled out on the whistle we could fit 12 minute quarters in !

Sometimes if it just looks like a foul they are calling it. Homeopathic fouls.

It's pretty much impossible to strip/block the ball when it's in an opponents hand without a call being made. Soft body fouls...
The game needs to flow entertainments sake, and for the athletic skill development of the players. It's getting outright boring watching a game where 10+ follows get called in a measly 10 minute quarter.

Reply #787209 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The Perth vs Phoenix game was a foul fest

Reply #787211 | Report this post




 

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