Dunkman
Two weeks ago

Semi Final: Kings vs Hawks, Game 2

Don't see any different results here, hawks had better find some team work and defenders or this will be over at the half, goorg the great man has got get more S Froling on instead Reath one out, I’m a little surprised on his subbing to be honest.

Kings by 15, could be be more, hoping I’m wrong though.

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Bol  
Two weeks ago

Entertaining first quarter. Cooks is everywhere!!

Reply #890983 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Two weeks ago

Seriously high quality game this.

Reply #890984 | Report this post


GordonG  
Two weeks ago

Wouldn't a Hawks v JJs Grand Final be wild? Would think you could have got some incredible odds on that...

Reply #890985 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

Yep.

Let's go Hawks, get that second chip.

Reply #890987 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

Wow, Duop Death with a ridiculous dagger to blow the Hawks lead out to double digits yet Sydney respond with a 11-0 run to take over.

Reply #890989 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

United or JJs will need to lift their games to beat either of these two

I say this as a United fan through and through

Reply #890990 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

That's why it is crucial for the Hawks win to prevent a Paul Smith championship.

Reply #890991 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

Welp.

Reply #890992 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

What happened with Harvey's 4th? He flopped? But where was the foul

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LV  
Two weeks ago

Same as last game, the MVP was the difference

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Luuuc  
Two weeks ago

Highlighted by that XRM heroball brick when the Hawks were clawing back, immediately followed by the MVP's dagger

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LV  
Two weeks ago

Well I hope everyone gets behind Melbourne (or JJs) now

This is a typical successful Sydney team.

Just a bunch of expensive players they've bought. Including Cooks and Glover from Illawarra. Bandwagon fans filling their arena. No culture, no history.

Look like clearly the best team. But everyone's beatable. Looking forward to it.

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Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

This should be a huge warning to the rest of the league to start signing quality imports again.

You cheapened out while Paul Smith ramped it up so this is where we are right now.

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Bol  
Two weeks ago

The kings with too much fire power. Harvey fouling out at the worst time possible. Hawks out in the semis two years in a row even with a vastly improved roster. Reath should be in the NBA next season

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ME  
Two weeks ago

XRM playing hero ball very well may have cost Illawarra the game, as much as the heroics of Jaylen Adams won it. Excellent game of basketball though - the game of the year in my view. Great players making great plays, and the stars showing up when it mattered. I hope this game got some FTA views because it's the kind of game that actually could bring fans to the league.

Moving forward probably looking at a Sydney vs Melbourne Grand Final series. I'd tip Sydney to win it. I don't think they have the depth or horses to stay with Sydney.

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Bol  
Two weeks ago

Sydney with the best import trio i can remember. Kudos to whoever signed Adams and Clarke they are playing NBA level with Cooke and Martin not far off. It takes a good coach to have them all playing for each other and their defense is solid. They nailed it in the off season only injuries had them off to a slow start.

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Zodiac  
Two weeks ago

Adams is a hell of a player too good a player for the NBL. He and Buford were at the Bucks together last season and no doubt that's played in part in him being here but if not in the NBA he should at least be starring on a Euroleague team or something. The Kings really need to win it all this year because I can't see him coming back next season.

Harvey's been disappointing for the Hawks this season, great first year then they gave him a 3 year deal and he's taken a step back this season. He's gone from 20 ppg @ 41.6% (37.9% 3p) down to 15.9 ppg @ 40.2% (32.2% 3p) this season.

Such a big drop in production and fouling out with 3:30 left in the 4th was unforgivable from someone who is meant to be the man on his team. XRM is selfish and a bit of a chucker but part of that is because someone needs to step up if Harvey's going into his shell.

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ME  
Two weeks ago

"Adams is a hell of a player too good a player for the NBL. He and Buford were at the Bucks together last season and no doubt that's played in part in him being here but if not in the NBA he should at least be starring on a Euroleague team or something. The Kings really need to win it all this year because I can't see him coming back next season."

Why couldn't he be back next season? Bryce Cotton is a good analogy here. If Adams doesn't make the NBA and Sydney absolutely throw their purse at him, why could he not stay in Sydney? With all the mess going on in Europe, could lifestyle be a factor for Adams? He clearly very much likes playing here. Adams has the potential to go where he wants with basketball but I find claims that someone is 'too good for the league' to be a bit demeaning in the sense that, it's not like he just walked over everyone here. But he was indeed a very clear and worthy MVP.

"Such a big drop in production and fouling out with 3:30 left in the 4th was unforgivable from someone who is meant to be the man on his team. XRM is selfish and a bit of a chucker but part of that is because someone needs to step up if Harvey's going into his shell."

I agree with this. Looking forward I think Illawarra needs to re-sign Antonious Cleveland (another guy who could be seen as 'too good for the league') . I think Harvey still has a place. XRM would only stay with a pay cut for me. He's a good role player but someone needs to calm down his chucker ways. Too many one-pass offenses leading directly to an XRM chuck. He's otherwise quite good and I think Illawarra is another team that largely got their imports right.

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Zodiac  
Two weeks ago

ME, on Adams he's clearly a better player than Cotton. Two very different players. Cotton has a whole team and set up built around him and getting him open he knows he's not going to get that luxury on say a good Euroleague team. Adams on the other hand is a flat out baller and could thrive even if toned down a bit in that situation.

I mentioned the Buford thing because it's likely the Kings are getting a decent discount on him already and now the price will be going right up. Even if NBA teams aren't interested again big money Euro teams will be how are the Kings meant to compete financially with that? The only chance really is that it is obvious he likes it there in Sydney but he could make seriously big money elsewhere.

on the Hawks they really do need to try and re-sign Cleveland after letting Simon go but no way is he 'too good for the league', he's exactly what we usually get a nice but somewhat flawed player. XRM was plucked out of the Romanian league he would already be pretty cheap and should expect a pay rise next season not a pay cut.

Again XRM's flawed but shits on both of the 36ers imports this season, in fact we could do worse than offer him a bit more to try and lure him. He would be a very handy second string import but he's better than third string like at the Hawks. Some of his problem seems to be is him trying to prove he's better than an impact player off the bench. He is, he should be starting on a worse team than the Hawks.

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Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

It was the first time since the first of his 22 consecutive NBL semi-finals, that Hawks coach Brain Goorjian had been swept.

History.

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Dunkman  
Two weeks ago

Kings were paying Casper 750k, there are the big euro clubs that can offer more but it's still a very handy pay packet.

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ME  
Two weeks ago

This may stretch the bounds of fairness but I think the NBL needs to consider it - paying teams to keep elite talent.

If the NBL really believes itself to be 'the second best league in the world' - as is the constant catch cry - it needs to be a league where someone like Jaylen Adams chooses to stay.

If LK and the NBL are shelling out hundreds of thousands on Next Stars, could it not tone down that program a tad to see that there is a pot of money for each team to keep and attain a player of his calibre when a bidding war ensues?

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Zodiac  
Two weeks ago

Dunkman, I know but Adams could make $1-1.5m a year in Europe or China, NBL teams can't compete with that. The best they can do is like what Perth did with Cotton and United did with Delly offer around $700k a year on a three year deal.

ME, the NBL doesn't really think it's the second best league in the world because it isn't it isn't even close. That is said for potential investors and casual fans who don't know better.

Personally even though it would suck to lose a talent like Adams I don't think the NBL should be in the business of helping clubs to hold onto stars enough is done already. Part of the lure of playing in the NBL is the fact there are now so many NBA scouts watching the league so some players/imports who may normally be too expensive are willing to take the financial hit to pump their stock and if not get into the NBA at least get a better pay day somewhere else.

Adams I think is a rare talent who fell through the cracks to land here probably in large part due to Buford but every year there is the potential for things like that to happen.

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Zodiac  
Two weeks ago

I should add the NBL's relationship with the NBA has never been closer than it is now. Some NBL teams are part-owned by current and former NBA players, the Kings are run by a former NBA exec and now we're seeing NBA assistant coaches like Buford, Weaver, Roth and Morrison starting to come out here.

All that means a lot of potential NBA connections to help land players like Adams so rather than focus specifically on keeping him here which would be very difficult look at others via those connections.

Reply #891013 | Report this post


Dave Q  
Two weeks ago

@lv "Just a bunch of expensive players they've bought. Including Cooks and Glover from Illawarra. Bandwagon fans filling their arena. No culture, no history."

Says the Melbourne United fan, whose team has the gall to hang Melbourne Tigers flags in the rafters. Pretty sure Melbourne might have spent a dollar or two on their current roster, including one guy who is strongly suspected to be on $750K a year and averaging 10 points per game.

Great stuff LV, awesome culture.

Reply #891014 | Report this post


ME  
Two weeks ago

Yeah I was talking to a mate about the Delly thing just earlier. I mean 750 per season for a guy whose NBA career is dead and buried and who wouldn't have been getting similar offers from any Euroleague teams. You have to question the rationality behind that kind of spend. Is he putting bums in seats? No. Is he leading them to wins? Yes, but an import point guard could have also done that. As Dave said, the guy is averaging 10 points per game. And it's not as though his other metrics are leagues above everyone else. I am not saying that they should've have picked Delly up - it was a no brainer. I am just saying that in a bidding war no one else was really fighting, they could have saved enough coin to bring in a Scotty Hopson. And I think when these finals are over, Hopson is going to be the very type of player they'll rue not having.

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LV  
Two weeks ago

CG and Barlow combined have probably played more NBL games for United than Sydney's entire roster has played in the NBL, even if you exclude their games for Melbourne Tigers who were the legacy franchise

Delly is from Maryborough and with United long term

JLA, when he arrived 2.5 years ago, had obvious potential but couldn't last 60 seconds without giving away a foul or throwing away the ball

United are big spenders yes, but they have been building a strong culture of success for the past 5 years, and they're developing players. They've got players who've bought into their program and become cornerstones of what they're doing over many years

Sydney just went out and bought 3 imports with extensive NBA experience. They'll probably be elsewhere next year. A coach who just sees the NBL as a stepping stone. No culture, no history, just a very talented team they've paid for, which will be here one minute and gone the next

Reply #891017 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

And everyone here knows I love to hate Perth

But, If United's going to lose the GF (as I suspect they will) I'd rather they lose to Perth than this Sydney mob

Don't get me wrong, I love watching them play, Adams is absolutely ripping it up and it's great, Cooks might be a future Boomers role player too

But here's the thing. Sydney as an entire city lacks sporting culture and lacks loyalty. They're just bandwagon fans. As soon as Adams goes and signs in the Euroleague, the arena will start emptying out.

We want sustainable brands- Perth Wildcats are one and a very good one, United is becoming one (although battling the AFL is hurting them), Sydney are just a club with a wealthy owner splashing money around, with a fickle fan base and from a city where it's hard to imagine a sustainable basketball brand developing in quite the same way

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Observer  
Two weeks ago

Sydney too good I think they will over run whoever they play in grand final.
Three quality imports 2 Aussie studs
Top Coach
Syd my money on Kings win championship.

Reply #891019 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two weeks ago

I've said Sydney as soon as I saw Adams play, absolute quality, all the way down the list. # 4 Makur starts on every other side in the comp, Glover most other sides. Vadonavic plays about 3 minutes in two finals games, he’s better than that, money talks putting a list together.
Hopson is such a poor defender, NZ found that out as United did. United were so strong last season they covered it. United should play Agada more. Delly had Avery good season, it’s not always about points, he might only average 10 but he stops 10 defensively.

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ME  
Two weeks ago

Sydney's fanbase is fickle because there are a lot of other things going on in that city. Sydneysiders want a show. They want something worth going to. They're not like a lot of 36er fans who'll pack in season after season to watch an ill-constructed team lose. I don't think you can blame them for that. As for whether the players will stay, this is Jarell Martin's second season and it's an improvement on his first. You'd think one of Ian Clark and Jaylen Adams would be potentially attainable to keep. And if not that will make Sydney just like every other team that struggles to keep imports. MOST IMPORTS MOVE ON! That's a trend across the entire league. Sydney are winning by splashing money but is there a wrong way to win? It's the role of teams to play and entertain, and they're doing that. They're also fostering talent. Are DJ and Glover not continuing to improve? Has Cooks not improved with Sydney? I feel like some of the comparisons have been unfair on the Kings here. We cant accuse Sydney over buying a championship when Delly is getting paid as much as all three Sydney imports probably are combined.

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Dunkman  
Two weeks ago

You are kidding if you think delly is earning as much as Sydney's three imports, not even close. Smith wanted a championship and he spent big.

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Anonymightymouse  
Two weeks ago

"MOST IMPORTS MOVE ON! That's a trend across the entire league."

That's a trend across the entire world. The import game is a merry-go-round, and the NBL in recent years has bucked the trend a little with hihg-quality guys like Cotton, Ware, Patterson, Machado, Martin, White, Prather, Harvey becoming multiple year imports.

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retired  
Two weeks ago

Lets look at the top 4 teams in the semis and it would be interesting to see who stuck to the salary cap legally.

Tassie would have with the team they have who have exceeded all expectations.

Look at the other 3 and you would probably find all way over the salary cap and do they pay the tax to the nbl for the amount they are over.

We all know Gooj does not do anything cheaply and just goes out to buy championships and the past reveals that.

You can also be sure Melbourne is doing the same thing and so would the Kings.
You can't tell me some of these imports are playing for pitiance dollars.

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AngusH  
Two weeks ago

"You are kidding if you think delly is earning as much as Sydney's three imports, not even close. Smith wanted a championship and he spent big. "

Nonsense. The Kings were told to tighten the purse strings this season. Adams was a GLeague player, no one (probably not even Buford) expected him to be the best player in the league. Clark was a replacement import who hadn't played professionally in around 2 years since a stint in China, could have gone either way - it was a gamble that paid off. I'm sure Martin is earning good coin, but not nearly Delly money. Cooks is due for a huge pay rise (or NBA contract), but his current contract would not reflect his production this year. Then we've got Wani playing big minutes after being a training/injury replacement player, DJ on a rookie deal (also due a pay bump), and the rest of the roster all affordable players. Makur is a next star.

The real question is going to be how many of these players the Kings are able to retain.

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Dunkman  
Two weeks ago

Angus
You are dreaming, yes the headline said tighten your belts, this squad hasn't been on a diet. F..k me Exum went to Barcelona ahead of Australia, you think those kings imports are playing for minimum dollars. Cooks was supposedly on 250k but needs a pay rise, DJ didn’t come to Sydney ahead of his home town where both clubs were interested for peanuts, lol. I’m not certain I’d believe what Smith babbles out if I was you.

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Dunkman  
Two weeks ago

Just on the above, good luck to Smith , he's got the money and he’s spending on the nbl, similar to the previous Perth owner, Bendat. Good luck to him but as before when Perth were winning everything there supporters always said there team was not high earners.

It’s time the nbl published club expenditures every season, then the B.S can stop.

Reply #891029 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Adams wasnt just a "G League player", he was a G League superstar, all league, and constantly on the cusp of playing NBA

No doubt if his agent wanted to shop him internationally he could've earned massive coin in many countries, the idea the Kings arent paying him generously fails the pub test

Clark was previously playing in China (a while ago but still) where ex NBA players are paid nicely

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Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

The three Kings imports alone would be on more than some of the other club's entire payroll.

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AngusH  
Two weeks ago

I don't think the imports are playing on minimum dollars, but I don't think they are being paid in line with their production - Martin-aside, who I'm sure is on A-level import money (below say, Cotton, in line with Patterson et al). Clark would be on probably half of what he deserves, and I imagine Adams also (although more than Clark). I believe Adams' motivation was to play for coach Buford and try and follow Tate's path to the NBA, which I believe will happen - there is no way in hell he is in the NBL next season. Clark again didn't play for two years. I'm sure he earnt good money in China, but again, he hasn't played in years. He could have quite easily stepped on the court completely out of shape and been a dud. It was a risk.

$250k for Cooks I'd believe, and performance wise he should be around the $400k mark based on production. I believe he will get an NBA shot this offseason in any case, but it will be a significant bump if he stays.

DJ I'm sure the Kings offered more than the competition (returning player from a big college), but I doubt very much he is being paid in line with his production either. He will probably get close to 2x what he is on currently in the NBL, assuming he doesn't look overseas (which I feel is a strong chance).

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AngusH  
Two weeks ago

^^^ *500k for Cooks

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Bol  
Two weeks ago

Im fine with Smith paying big dollars for quality imports but it also takes savvy recruiting of aussie players and next stars and good coaching to win a championship. We've seen in the past kings teams that are stacked on paper but still failed so to me it irrelevant what the spend is. I'd like to know where the luxury tax goes? If the luxury tax is going to the less affluent clubs to help sign or retain higher quality players that sounds good to me.

If Smith is willing to continue spending big and the kings can somehow keep most of this team together its fantastic for the league. Sydney has always been the most fickle but important market for the growth of sport and tv ratings. Without that growth the NBL will never truly be the second best league in the world if we cant pay these quality players what their value is. Its up to other clubs to try and improve to their level if possible with the leagues help if needed.

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Zodiac  
Two weeks ago

Adams wasn't a G-League player last season he was on the Bucks roster spending time in the G-League. As he was on NBA money last season he wouldn't have come cheap this season.

And yeah Cooks would be on pretty decent money already with a pay rise no doubt coming in. He was playing in Europe before coming to the NBL and was a first choice Boomer making the 2019 WC team before injuries struck.

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LV  
Two weeks ago

The Sydney Kings remind me of the 97 Melbourne Tigers, who famously won the title after a 3-9 start

Like those Tigers, Sydney made an import change mid season and have been almost unbeatable after the change- Tigers won 17 in a row, Sydney won 13 in a row.

I think Sydney are now 12-1 with both Adams and Clark playing

Like those Tigers, Sydney just has weapons everywhere.

I remember Goorj likening playing those Tigers to the whack-a-mole arcade game. Someone's gonna get you. If not Gaze, then Copeland, and if not Copeland then Timmons, and Bradtke's still there putting in his 20-25 a game.

It's like that with Sydney. Adams subs out, and Clark takes over. DJ could go off for 30 (like he did against Illawarra recently). Martin and Maker floating around- bigs who can score from anywhere. And Cooks is cleaning everything up and making it difficult at the other end.

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