Juice
Two years ago

Southside Flyers AC goes off about Equality




"Yes I did apply & interview for the Blues Senior Women's NBL1 HC role, as did another suitably qualified female coach from within our club. We both made it through to the final interview and were both overlooked for an older man who has no affiliation with Blues whatsoever. On paper, he has more experience than us, well by the time I’m in my 60’s, I hope I will have more experience than people who are in their 40’s. Having said that, if 'more experienced’ men keep applying for jobs that I’m perfect for, maybe I won’t... “


I think it’s time to have the conversation about what they are arguing as a lack of equality. Is it 1 male coach for 1 female coach or is it 1 black coach to 1 white coach. Where does it start and stop? And is it professional to publicly post you about the another person who was successful.

Topic #50435 | Report this topic


Perthworld  
Two years ago

Yawn, what a massive whinger who has now cost herself future gigs.

Reply #899137 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Link?

Reply #899143 | Report this post


Tired Weevil  
Two years ago

Who was this, Snell?

Reply #899154 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

Not Snell.. It was a FB post

Reply #899155 | Report this post


Hoopin’ in the burbs  
Two years ago

So the new coach is from outside the program right? To be honest it's reasonable to be upset by that. Tough pill to swallow.

Odd that you chose to share her Facebook post on a forum while also asking if it was appropriate that her post existed at all?

Reply #899159 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

She put it out there to
Be consumed so ..That's how discussions get started.. not
every post is malicious. I think there is some merit but I think it’s off in terms of equality

Reply #899170 | Report this post


LLKK  
Two years ago

Imagine being the incoming head coach seeing how much the unsuccessful candidate has drummed up. Wouldn't feel exactly welcome

Reply #899174 | Report this post


Hoopin’ in the burbs  
Two years ago

Ok.
So equality: Would you agree she has a point?
And perhaps you just don't like the delivery/forum chosen to express the frustration? But if you can’t vent to your own people, then who?

The imbalance in female coaches vs male coaches at all levels in marked. The dialogue back from the top is 'they dont apply’, but it seems they do.

It looks to me like this club were never going to select her. I’m sure the incoming candidate has a great resume, but now they lose a local, clearly very passionate and highly motivated resource. For Frankston, I hope they see that as worth it.

Reply #899177 | Report this post


Wilbur  
Two years ago

If its not about Equality, what's it about then?
Surely you want to promote from within and it sounds like the AC has done the hard yards at the club.

Reply #899182 | Report this post


Shotblocker  
Two years ago

Only have to look at every level of sport to see the inequality/imbalance which ever you choose when it comes to coaches. Starts in junior levels right through and especially basketball

Why do men who have had the same amount of years playing and frequently less hold more head coaching positions than females that have the same or more experience
It's not because they don’t apply , it’s because those choosing are usually makes not females , and why is that ? Because more senior positions in clubs are also held by makes, so until that changes the inequality/ imbalance will continue

Reply #899187 | Report this post


johnny bowla  
Two years ago

If you asked a Male coach the consensus is, not to worry about applying for women's coaching roles because no matter your experience, you rarely get a look in vs a female coach.

If the coach was from outside of the system, perhaps they didn't like the current system and wanted to change the culture.

Reply #899198 | Report this post


Interpreter  
Two years ago

Posters are quickly jumping to conclusions based on a Facebook post. Perhaps verify the information first before forming an opinion.

Reply #899199 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

Johnny Bowls, the stats/reality don't back up your claim. In NBL1 South this year, of the 19 mens teams, 1 was coached by a woman, and I’m pretty sure that’s a first. Of the 19 womens teams, 5 were coached by women. Now with Snell replaced by a man, that will be down to 4, so 15 of the 19 womens teams will be coached by men.

Reply #899200 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

I don't think the argument she has is about equality .. it is about sexism. Equality is for all. There are more women and LGBTQ in prominent basketball positions in this country than there are coaches of any color.

In this day and age and in this basketball climate of giving women a go. You have to ask yourself if she did do as well as she said then why didn’t they? That’s where she has merit depending on the feedback.
To arbitrarily go straight to accusing a lack equality just seems to be a step too far. She has every right to feel slighted and disappointed but it stops there before you cry lack of equality.

But here are some real facts about equality she can address.

0 head or assistant coaches of color (men or women) in NBL1 south
0 head or assistant coaches of color in the WNBL
2 in the NBL
1 in the Australian National pipeline
(3x3 ast. coach)

Isn’t equality the most qualified and best person get the job regardless of age, race or gender?

Or is it to focus on evening the score?




Reply #899202 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

Knox will have a female coach next season

Reply #899203 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

^^ ok so stays at 5

Reply #899204 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

Let's list what highly experienced qualified women coaches in Victoria that don’t have jobs?

Even this coach we speak of has a job with Southside.

Thornton
Jo Wood

Who else?

Reply #899208 | Report this post


johnny bowla  
Two years ago

Footloose- your stats back up the number of coaches that are male, not the number that applied vs male counterparts which was my argument.

The fact is that there are many more highly qualified male coaches in the system, obviously it would be great if this was more balanced, reality is backed up by the stats you show

Reply #899209 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

I believe that's the point of the original post Johnny Bowla

Reply #899211 | Report this post


Wilbur  
Two years ago

But .. if you don't appoint the ones coming through the system at some stage due to lack of experience.. how and when do they get the experience to be able to beat their male counterparts out for the job.
This was a prime opportunity for Frankston to be forward thinking and promote from within.
Big opportunity missed. One that will filter down to the junior program.

Reply #899212 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

You can hire them as assistants with the idea of promoting them to head coach like Knox has done.

Reply #899213 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Two years ago

Let's not forget the vast majority of players are males. Last I was told this was around 75% of basketballers in Australia.

Its quite natural IMO for most coaches, referees and club officials to be men as they move from playing into other roles.

To call this out as an equality issue when in her own words she missed out due to more experience of the other coach is absurd and purely attention seeking when the world has real issues in certain areas regarding equality.

This is not it.

Reply #899214 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

More experience doesn't automatically make the person a better fit. Did you actually read the post?

Reply #899215 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Two years ago

And sometimes it does. Successful experience is something any recruiter wants involved in their organisation right?

Business or sport its no different. If someone has the runs on the board, presents well, can add something to your organisation you bring them in.

None of that has to do with equality. The OP was way off the mark there.

Reply #899217 | Report this post


JaneS  
Two years ago

Let's also not forget Nightwing that the vast majority of these players who are indeed male are playing domestic basketball.
And Juice, the AC to Belinda Snell this season was a female coach who has previously head coached the Sandringham YL Champ women to 3 x GFs in three consecutive seasons, finishing back-to-back champs and then R/U. She then moved to Blues to AC Belinda.
The previous Blues NBL1 AC went from assisting Belinda’s predecessor to Head Coaching the Blues YLW, winning the G/F & also being voted COTY.
I’m not across their entire coaching or playing CV’s but to my knowledge both not only represented Vic as juniors, but also played WNBL & represented Australia. Not sure how much domestic bball they played though.

Reply #899220 | Report this post


Frisbee14  
Two years ago

The best candidate should be chosen without any bias towards sex, race, religion, sexuality etc.
Becky Hammond is a good example. Portland chose Billups over her despite her having a way better coaching pedigree, maybe a slight argument based on his playing career. But it would have been a perfect time to have a female head coach. And the other suggestion that it wouldn't work because players would be trying to hook up with her is simple as evidenced by the Celtics and Udoka, suspend both players if it breaches protocol.
What are clubs trying to do to promote women's participation in coaching? There's a huge push to get players, but how many women get encouraged to coach?

Reply #899221 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Two years ago

No actually the vast majority are juniors. But feel free to have a dig.

How about the vast majority of girls who play basketball quit in their late teens. So don't even make it to domestic basketball.

Reply #899222 | Report this post


JaneS  
Two years ago

I'm a bit confused by your choice of headline Juice. Am I correct to assume that you copied this directly from a FB post because from what you have published, I can’t see where this person makes any mention of 'equality’ or a lack thereof. I am wondering if you have only shared a portion of the actual post. Is this a public post by the person & if so, can you point us to it?

Reply #899223 | Report this post


JaneS  
Two years ago

Super interesting claims Nightwing. Source(s)?

Reply #899224 | Report this post


JaneS  
Two years ago

And Nightwing, you originally commented 'Let's not forget the vast majority of players are males. Last I was told this was around 75% of basketballers in Australia.' No mention of juniors.

Reply #899225 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Two years ago

because juniors aren't male or basketballers?

Reply #899226 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

JaneS I'm sure you can find the post in its entirety if you really want to and post it it’s public.

Posting it all makes it all about her instead of the sentiment she shared about who got hired. She mentions fighting for equality every chance she gets later In the post.

As for your confusion we are talking about perceived lack of equality in men and women coaches which was the point of the post to begin with. It doesn’t matter how we got here. We are having a good discussion with no nastiness and not focusing on the individual but the sentiment.

Reply #899252 | Report this post


JaneS  
Two years ago

I located the post - was blown away by the support this coach clearly has. Contrary to your claim that 'she mentions fighting for equality every chance she gets later in the post', fighting for equality is actually only mentioned ONCE in the entire post.

For anyone who wants to read the post in its entirety and form their own opinion as to the sentiment she was sharing, please see the entire post below.

"I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has reached out in the last 24 hours to check on me... appreciate you all

Yes I did apply & interview for the Blues Senior Women’s NBL1 HC role, as did another suitably qualified female coach from within our club. We both made it through to the final interview and were both overlooked for an older man who has no affiliation with Blues whatsoever. On paper, he has more experience than us, well by the time I’m in my 60’s, I hope I will have more experience than people who are in their 40’s. Having said that, if ‘more experienced’ men keep applying for jobs that I’m perfect for, maybe I won’t…

‘On paper experience’ was more highly valued in this instance than ten years of grinding inside the club and being an integral part of building one of the best girls programs in the country. It was also more highly valued than the 3 years spent building the senior program as an AC and then as the YL HC. It was also more highly valued than my superior playing career. It was also more highly valued than the relationships that both myself and the other female candidate have with the playing group. It was also more highly valued than the player exit meeting feedback where they voiced their preferred candidate. As anyone who has been paying attention knows, coaching is all about relationships, anyone can come up with x’s and o’s, but the old adage “they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care" rings true.

I try to be a good role model for the girls and women around me, and even though I knew I had ruffled feathers because I push for equality at every chance I get, I still went for it. I love this playing group and very much wanted to lead them into battle in the NBL1 arena, so I put together a killer presentation and presented it well. I did everything in my power to be their coach. I failed & I’m sorry…

To all the coaches, volunteers, staff & families who have supported me in my time at Blues as a coach as well as the coordinator and helped to make this girls program great, I thank you. To all of our awesome junior players (girls & boys), I will watch your journeys with pride. To my YL group (players & staff), I’m so grateful to you all for helping me become a better coach and for finishing off last season in style. And, lastly to the senior group, thank you for embracing my leadership in the one NBL1 game that I got to coach for Blues, we didn’t win, but you all played your asses off and confirmed for me that I was ready to coach at that level. Ce la vie xxx”

Reply #899260 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Two years ago

Oh boo hoo. Social media has so much to answer for. You applied, you didn't get the job. Move on.

Reply #899261 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

1. Jane S first if all stop acting like you don't know her.

2. I told you posting it all would open her up to ridicule. Good luck for the rest of this discussion.

3. She literally says "I fight for equality every chance I get" and where did she say it? Later on in her post. So what is contrary to what I claimed?

Reply #899263 | Report this post


Nightwing  
Two years ago

Latest SportAus Ausplay stats say:

Adults (15+) 983,200 participants 298,400 females 30%
Children 339,300 participants 120,400 females 35%

I admit what I heard was a little off but as of 2021 of the 1,322,500 estimated participants 418,800 31% are females.

https://www.clearinghouseforsport.gov.au/research/ausplay/results

Reply #899267 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Interesting stats. 685K adult male participants compared to 298K females. I had no idea the stats were that lopsided in terms of sex.

Reply #899268 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

There's a multitude of reasons for that split. Adult leisure time gender split for one. The problem is that when you get to leadership roles, that 31% drops significantly, which further impacts the loss of girls & women to the sport, because they don’t see a pathway for them other than 'player’. You can’t be what you can’t see and all that.

Reply #899273 | Report this post


Hoopin’ in the burbs  
Two years ago

For me the internal pathway piece here is as disappointing as overlooking a strong female candidate.
The overlooking of a strong female candidate is unfortunately par for the course in this sport.
Good on her for standing up and asking the questions that need asking.

Reply #899282 | Report this post


LLKK  
Two years ago

Anyone looked at and noted the resume of the guy that did get it? Hardly a dud!

Reply #899283 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

I don't believe it’s the lack of female role models that does it. Just because a young lady is coached by a man doesn’t mean they can’t be inspired to be a coach. I believe the lack of visibility and opportunity to earn good money in women’s sport as a whole is the problem. Women’s spots doesn't pay...period. With the. Exception of tennis and the elite.

I think men see coaching as a way to still compete at a high level after they can’t physically do it anymore. It’s in us too be competitive before anything else.I don’t believe sport satisfies the same hunger in men and women.

Reply #899284 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

Oh Juice, the 1950's called, they’re wondering where you are

Reply #899285 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two years ago

Anyone looked at and noted the resume of the guy that did get it? Hardly a dud!

They're too busy with being outraged to check!

Reply #899287 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

Not true Perthworld. His most recent experience- Had a brief (unsuccessful) stint with Rangers WNBL in 2010, then moved across to the Sabres senior mens team as an AC, stepped up to HC in 2013 and was gone by the 2014 season. No senior coaching since, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Reply #899289 | Report this post


Juice  
Two years ago

We've managed to keep this conversation free of insult footloose..

If anyone is stuck in an archaic way of thinking it’s you who think women need to be saved from a big bad wolf. Women have held and occupy some of the highest positions in basketball in this country. We women are more empowered than ever. My question is why don’t more of us women invest in women?

Where are the women millionaires buying or even sponsoring women’s teams? If I’m correct there is still a WNBL license out there for sale from Brisbane. I’m all for us women getting our just deserves but not at the expense of the meritocracy sport should be. We as women can do more to support each other instead of looking to blame ghosts of systems past. Or backing silly arguments a woman makes simply because she’s a woman.

My opinion may be outdated to you but for you to be screaming that there aren’t as many female coaches because men run the world is misguided. You can’t name more than 3 experienced female coaches in Victoria that want a job, applied for a job, but don’t have one including the one who posted that in her Facebook
She actually has a job in the 2nd best women’s league in the world she just didn’t get a second one she wanted.

Show some humility, grace and professionalism and congratulate instead of tearing down to build yourself up. Maybe that’s the experience they were looking for in a coach. Maybe she is justifying their decision with her response to it and hurting other female coaches in the process.



Reply #899292 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

Wow Juice, you're sounding a bit unhinged. So my joke about your thinking being archaic was an insult, but your 'belief’ that women don’t have the hunger for it was what?

Reply #899298 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Juice isn't sounding unhinged, she presented reasons for her beliefs and asked some interesting questions. The one around why more rich women haven't so far invested heavily in sport, like so many male counterparts do, is thought provoking.

Reply #899299 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 4:34 pm, Mon 22 Apr 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754