Aussie
Two years ago

Would you take Aron Baynes to the 2023 World Cup?

He is a legend of Australian basketball but I personally think his days of international competition are over.

Assuming Goorj takes 4 bigs to the World Cup (like he did in the last Olympics) who would you take as the 4th?

Again assuming Landale, Reath and Kay are selected.

Unlikely:
Humphries
Magnay

Maybe:
Thon Maker?

White, Cooks and Pinder are all 3's IMO at international level

Topic #50709 | Report this topic


No. He is no longer mobile enough to have value at either end.

Pinder is not a 3 at International level. Similar size to Reath and Kay.

Assuming Simmons won't be there so Magnay if he can stay healthy may be the best option. His role would be as a defensive minded big.

Reply #907127 | Report this post


Shaggy  
Two years ago

Really hoping that Patty has persuaded Simmons to go along and be a part of the team this time around

Reply #907129 | Report this post


Aussie  
Two years ago

My gut tells me that Simmons will play at the next Olympics but not World Cup.

I thought about Magnay too.

Several games for him to improve (particularly rebounding) let's hope he is a lot better by seasons end.

How tall is Pinder? 6'9?

Reply #907131 | Report this post


KET  
Two years ago

You take Cooks whether you consider him a 3 or not.

If it's a team of 12, you take an extra big and you take Baynes so he can help deal with the euro size which nobody else in the Australian squad can

Reply #907133 | Report this post


Crackers65  
Two years ago

It doesn't matter how tall Pinder is compared to Magnay, he is by far the better player. Haynes has been a wonderful player for Aus. but unfortunately his time has come. Goorjian will probably take Baynes but
I don’t think he should.

Reply #907134 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

88 6'0 P.Mills CG
92 6'0 B.Cotton CG
92 6’2 M.Mccarron CG
97 6’2 D.Vasiljevic SG
90 6’3 N.Sobey CG
88 6’4 C.Goulding SG
90 6'4 M.Dellavedova PG
04 6’4 T.Proctor CG
92 6’5 M.Creek SF
97 6’5 M.Thybulle G/F
98 6’5 W.Mcdowell-White PG
00 6’5 J.Green G/F
02 6’5 M.King SG
95 6’6 D.Exum CG
90 6'7 R.Broekhoff G/F
97 6’7 J.White CF
01 6’7 L.Travers SF
03 6’7 D.Daniels G/F
87 6'8 J.Ingles G/F
95 6’8 X.Cooks CF
02 6’8 J.Giddey PG
93 6’9 N.Kay PF/C
95 6’9 K.Pinder PF/C
86 6'10 A.Baynes C
90 6'10 B.Motum PF
96 6’10 B.Simmons PG/PF
98 6’10 W.Magnay PF/C
95 6’11 J.Landale PF/C
96 6’11 D.Reath PF/C
98 6’11 I.Humphries C
97 7’0 T.Maker PF/C
00 7’0 S.Froling C

Reply #907135 | Report this post


Aussie  
Two years ago

I have Cooks in my final 12.

My concern about Baynes is he is struggling to defend, rebound and is slow running 94 feet.

Would be still handy for setting picks.

Not convinced he should be there next year

Reply #907136 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

"It doesn't matter how tall Pinder is compared to Magnay, he is by far the better player."

It depends what you need. If you're after rim protection in the available spot then Magnay is by far the better player. If you want speed in the frontcourt Pinder is by far the better player.

Reply #907138 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Not Baynes on present form, Magnay ahead of Pinder, the euro fives will do to Pinder what Thomas did last night.

Reply #907141 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Pinder would more than hold his own at international level. The big dudes with poor mobility and athleticism are the ones that struggle.

Reply #907143 | Report this post


KET  
Two years ago

Whilst I'm definitely a fan of Pinder, I don’t think he has the IQ and maturity for a World Cup or Olympics level international event

Reply #907145 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Big dudes with poor mobility don't make national sides anymore. I think a player like
Gobert would be licking his lips in anticipation, plus coaches are not letting him drive to the ring.

Reply #907146 | Report this post


Patty"TheGOAT"Mills  
Two years ago

The characteristics of the league and the international arena are very different.
Even one of the best players in the NBL may not be the type that works on the international stage.

Reply #907147 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Exactly. Nathan Sobey is a player who at his peak was a physical force in the NBL with his speed. He couldn't impact much internationally because other players were just as athletic and he didn't have the basketball smarts to find other ways.

Nick Kay is an extremely high IQ basketballer without exceptional athletic traits, and he was highly effective internationally because he understood a role where he could contribute and executed it perfectly.

Reply #907149 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

France options

Embiid
Gobert
Wenbanyama
Yabusele
Poirer
Lauvergne
Dieng
Kamagate
Sarr
Mbaye
Diabate
Fall
Jaiteh
Doumbouya

Reply #907150 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

I've been thinking along the same lines recently... not sure Baynes I’d gonna make it and I think the reality is we really don’t know what the bigs are gonna look like outside of Landale and Kay…

Reply #907171 | Report this post


Footloose  
Two years ago

On his NBL performances, not a chance

Reply #907176 | Report this post


RobT  
Two years ago

Is Brandt so out of it that he doesn't even get a mention, anymore?
Didn't he and Kay form a better-than-good duo on court?

If Baynes does not make it, then Brandt could be the 'big' body we don't seem to have without Baynes.

Reply #907178 | Report this post


Jatz  
Two years ago

The answer is no. He's past it. His efforts last night v SEM were quite ordinary. Missed easy shots. Can’t get up & down the floor. Bring on some youth. His time is well & truly over. Doesn’t contribute much at NBL level

Reply #907180 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Right now it's a no from me, but the tournament is in late August so I wouldn't be ruling him out just yet.

Reply #907181 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

^^ spot on

Reply #907184 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Two years ago

Baynes is obviously still rounding into form but i'd say there's a long way to go to be considered.

Even with his general struggles on o and d, the biggest issues I see is he's making constant bone headed plays. Bad fouls, obvious offensive fouls, poor reads, bad passes, badly timed shots.

Maybe that's just time in the game, but I'm more feeling that with his ability to take up space on d and be a bruiser around the rim starting to wane, the rest of his game was never really good enough to keep him going.

Bit of an anti Bogut. Bogut lost any ability to shoot, any athletism he had, and became a high post passer and position defender. Baynes just looks lost.

Reply #907186 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Two years ago

Baynes is obviously still rounding into form but i'd say there's a long way to go to be considered.

Even with his general struggles on o and d, the biggest issues I see is he's making constant bone headed plays. Bad fouls, obvious offensive fouls, poor reads, bad passes, badly timed shots.

Maybe that's just time in the game, but I'm more feeling that with his ability to take up space on d and be a bruiser around the rim starting to wane, the rest of his game was never really good enough to keep him going.

Bit of an anti Bogut. Bogut lost any ability to shoot, any athletism he had, and became a high post passer and position defender. Baynes just looks lost.

Reply #907187 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two years ago

To be fair Baynes was never anywhere near as good a player as Bogut was and Bogut had a few inches in height and no doubt longer arms than Baynes too.

The most concerning thing with Baynes other than last night is the amount of 3's he jacks up. He's attempted four or more 3's in 7 of his 16 games. This isn't the NBA where everyone's running up and down jacking up whatever they like and having a laugh getting back on defence, some one of his obvious physical size advantage in the NBL should, if he had any gumption, be destroying teams on the low block.

Obviously he's said he has designs on getting back into the NBA and to appeal to those scouts he's likely decided to keep playing as an NBA big rather than doing the right thing by his NBL team. It's a broader situation the NBL kind of finds itself in now with so many NBA eyeballs on the league players are coming here to 'showcase' themselves ala Craig Randall at the expense of what their teams want from them.

Reply #907190 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Two years ago

Some tough decisions coming up for the Worlds and Olympics. Some of the veterans will have to go including Delly, Ingles and possibly Baynes. Mills will hold his spot but "experience" alone will not cut it for the next selection period. Either or both of Pinder and Cooks will have to be selected because they are capable of scoring off their own bat. Giddey, Green, Daniels, Landale and Exum are shoe ins along with Thybulle/Cotton. From Europe/Asia we have Acuil, Kay, Reath etc.
What a great position to be in with so many good players to choose from.

Reply #907192 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Acuil plays for South Sudan.

Reply #907193 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two years ago

Pretty sure Lual-Acuil already plays for the South Sudan national team.

Reply #907194 | Report this post


Ben  
Two years ago

Magnay over Baynes? Come on people. As unremarkable as he's been, Baynes would easily be the superior choice.

For starters, he’d be needed for what like 15-ish mins? That’s manageable. He knows the system, will set screens, bang with the bigger bodies and has proven previously to be capable of stretching his shooting to the outside.

I’d also imagine his play would be maximised far better on a team with an actual point guard who can get people the ball where they need it. This season at the Bullets has legit been one of (if not, the) biggest shit shows I have seen in following 30+ years of NBL, perhaps unfair to assume his Boomers worth based from what’s going on in Brisbane.

Reply #907195 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

As Luuuc said, long way to go yet, next June we need no a lot more.

Reply #907199 | Report this post


AussiePride  
Two years ago

OK. Not Acuil then but still plenty of choices. As long as they are Australian Citizens of course.

Reply #907203 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Guys in the big man mix, Kay and Landale obviously, but after that we are looking at guys like..

Baynes, the Makur cousins, Reath, Jack White and Cooks.

Then it's the NBL guys, Magnay and Humphries, my guess is Goorj takes 4 bigs and uses 'Thybulle’ as a small ball 4.

I doubt Cooks makes it, I think Jack white will and they’ll need another legit big after that, Baynes, Reath and Thon to battle out for that spot.

Tourney is in august and 8 months is a long time in hoops

Reply #907211 | Report this post


Baller  
Two years ago

We shouldn't be letting Simmons pick and choose if he wants to play at the olympics he should have to make himself available for the World Cup he is not lebron or durant

Reply #907213 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

Ideally we have Landale, Simmons and Kay walking onto the team with someone like a Pinder or Cooks playing a bit of 4/5. The question for me is what do you need him to do? If it's set screens and be large, he can do that for 10-15 minutes per game. But I am not sure that makes him a better option than someone like a Magnay who will have the agility and athleticism to effect the game in more areas at this point in his career. There could also be debate as to whether Isaac Humphries can do the things Baynes can do but better right now as well.

Huge fan of Baynes and the career he was able to carve himself. But judging just on current form my answer would be "no"

Reply #907226 | Report this post


Bored  
Two years ago

I think Baynes has a better chance of replicating current form in the Boomers team than those other NBL level guys. Baynes size strength and experience will translate over almost directly with minimal deep in production. The other guys might not do so well. I'd take Baynes in a limited role over the others.

Reply #907227 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

The line-up doesn't have a big body who can guard a traditional European big. The Boomers got away with that in Tokyo after Baynes was injured, but who is keeping Gobert off the glass if we're playing them in a SF?

Do we roll the dice with our versatile bigs and do it by committee defensively while having a mobility advantage on O? Or do we take an insurance policy for the true bigs, and if so who is that?

Reply #907229 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Two years ago

If cooks doesn't make it i'll eat my shoe.

Can play every position and the perfect 4 man to have on the floor with Landale or Kay playing the centre.

I feel Cooks has the advantage over someone like a Pinder, as Pinder does similar things to Landale, but Cooks can be a compliment.

Reply #907230 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Pinder makes free throws, Pinder can shoot the three, neither of these things can Cooks do, both suspect defensively against big mobile bigs. Serbia, France, US Germany have got these. The team probably not getting selected for months, Humphries and Magnay are genuine fives, Kay can help out but very undersized. While Baynes has been average at best he's not out yet.

Reply #907231 | Report this post


Hooping  
Two years ago

Current field goal percentage 41.8%
currrent free throw percentage 62.5%
current 3pt percentage 31.7%

When he was at his best he was shooting a high %

NBA FG career 48.9%
NBA FT career 79.4%
NBA 3pt % 30.8 but in 2018 (34.4%) and 2019 (35.1%)

So clearly output is on the decline. A good rebounder.

But lucky to be getting major minutes in NBL with those types of shooting numbers.



Reply #907235 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

"I think Baynes has a better chance of replicating current form in the Boomers team than those other NBL level guys. Baynes size strength and experience will translate over almost directly with minimal deep in production. The other guys might not do so well. I'd take Baynes in a limited role over the others."

There is also the green singlet effect which happens to a lot of our Boomers, where they can be rubbish for their club team and yt shine in the national team. Baynes yet prove a case of that.

Reply #907239 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

top 20 and likely going to camp.

PG Giddey* - Simmons* - Exum* - Dellevedova
SG Mills* - Green* - Cotton - Goulding
SF Ingles - Thybulle - Daniels* - Creek
PF Kay* - Cooks - Pinder - White
C Landale* - Reath - Maker - Baynes


*Locks atm(8)
Cutting to 12 ultra difficult.

Reply #907240 | Report this post


Ben  
Two years ago

Is Simmons a lock? Legit question, and biases aside. Disregarding numbers, haven't seen anything to suggest he fits Boomers culture (important).

Reply #907241 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Cooks is so good from a team defence perspective, so good a passer and decision maker, and so good at the possession game that it's going to take someone playing very well at camp to keep him out.

Reply #907248 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

People need to prepare for the fact that there may not be an NBL guy on the next boomers lineup, there might only be one?

If your lineup is filled with a bunch of NBL guys then your miles off and better start eating shoes

Reply #907277 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Too much NBL homerism...

France is gonna show up with Gobert and Wemby amongst others, Serbia will have Jokic and Boban amongst others…

The concept the Aus will counter these lineups with a cooks/ Magnay combo is hilarious, and you need to give NBL tv a rest and pop on NBA league pass cos last I checked NBA is better than NBL

There's currently 8 Aussies in the nba playing rotation minutes, add Delly and Kay, after that we are looking at guys like Makur, White, Thon, Baynes, we aren’t taking an undersized PF that can’t shoot

Reply #907278 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Funny. That's what people said about Landale and Kay before they were the frontcourt duo that took us to bronze in Tokyo.

Reply #907279 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Probably the same morons who are picking Cotton over Matysse...

I was always in Kay's corner, Landale has always been a no brainer…

Reply #907280 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

No, it was those who think people should be picked depending on what league they're in, rather than the contribution they can make to the team.

Reply #907281 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

"Funny. That's what people said about Landale and Kay before they were the frontcourt duo that took us to bronze in Tokyo."

As much as I venerate the medal we won last year, it is not without caveats, one being we never faced a particularly big team after losing Baynes. We might be singing a different tune if we had crossed over with one of France or Spain.

Having said that, Slovenia made a good fist of it, having little else inside except a guy who was not dissimilar to Nick Kay.

"The concept the Aus will counter these lineups with a cooks/ Magnay combo is hilarious, and you need to give NBL tv a rest and pop on NBA league pass cos last I checked NBA is better than NBL"

No one is pretending that we'd counter Magnay with Embiid. If Magnay and Cooks make the team, they would be 11/12th men. You'd be countering Embiid with a Landale-Simmons+ one extra combo. There would be no world where Magnay and Cooks are playing extended minutes together, let alone against the bigger nations.

"People need to prepare for the fact that there may not be an NBL guy on the next boomers lineup, there might only be one? "

There will likely be 2 or 3.

PG Giddey* - Simmons* - Exum*
SG Mills* - Green* -
SF Ingles - Thybulle - Daniels*
PF Kay* -
C Landale* -

You will clearly need another center and someone who can play 4/5, and I am not sure where else you get them from.

Reply #907304 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Watching Landale today even he looked not small but no as big as the other centres out there. Seven plus footers is the norm now.

Reply #907325 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Becomes easy if ingles doesn't prosper this year and gets no gametime, he will be 36 next year and 37 in Paris. Very much reaching the end at that age with his genetics.
Baynes 37/38

Mills is the captain, the leader and could go till 40
Kay vice captain
everyone else will be under 20-28 below


PG Giddey - Simmons
SG Mills - Green - Exum
SF Thybulle - Daniels
PF Kay - Cooks - Maker
C Landale - Reath

Quite a few can play multiple positions..
Problem area, 3 pt shooting.

Reserves
Dellevedova
Goulding
Creek
Pinder
Magnay

Reply #907326 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Simmons is not PG, he's a PF that can handle, and he’s actually playing a lot of 5 backing up Claxton...

If Simmons is available, he’s the Boomers starting PF

Ingles is averaging 16 minutes since returning for the bucks, I’ll take the same for the Boomers…

Reply #907334 | Report this post


proud  
Two years ago

Ok so if we take the Olympics then Duop Reath played absolutely fuck all so I'm not sold on him being selected in this team yet and if it’s a case of having someone playing 5 minutes/game as Goorj had a very short rotation then why wouldn’t Baynes be your man?

At worst he goes to training camp and helps pass on what it means to play for the Boomers and the culture within it.

Of all the players named above I’d love to see Sam Froling and how his game translates in that setting, he is a star but needs some mongrel and you know that Baynes would help bring that out in him.

I’m extremely curious about the PF spot in this squad more than any other with Kay, Cooks and White all with the ability to contribute without plays being ran for them (ideal team mate) but you can’t take 2 of them and some suggesting only Kay goes.

I would love there to be a package put together of training camp, that would be such a joy to watch as we have some seriously talented individuals that will miss out.

Would anyone take Rowdy Broekhoff or is Ingles now playing the shooter off the bench role that Goulding has played for last couple of tournaments? I think he could be a great 11-12 to look to get hot in a hurry

Reply #907338 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

I would think two of Kay, Cooks and White would definitely go. Versatile players who defend, rebound, run the floor and share the ball, all make their teammates better.

Reply #907339 | Report this post


Rusty  
Two years ago

The bigger and harder decision should be Joe Ingles.

If the team is picked today no way I'm putting him in my 12.

Joe like Aaron should both go to camp and beat out their rivals there, Australia just has too many up n coming players at the moment for these guys to be automatic.

Reply #907354 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

The way Humphries has played today, he'd have to be right up there for a five spot.

Reply #907378 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Magnay also putting his had up, you need true fives at international level.

Reply #907473 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Yeah you need "bangers" at international level which puts Thon and Reath firmly in the picture, as well as Baynes, we could end up taking Baynes, Specifically for that reason, in an “8 minutes every 2nd game” type of role...

Reply #907482 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

I don't think Reath is a banger, I'd describe him more as a stretch big.

Reply #907483 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Thon didn't last in the nba because he wasn’t a banger, he got out muscled.

Reply #907484 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

We dont really have bangers, and the closest we have are Baynes and Humphries. One of those two probably will make the team.

Reply #907502 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

I think Magnay can bang a bit.

Reply #907518 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Agree. He has the strength and athleticism to play on a lot of genuine bigs, though he's not in the category of Baynes or Bogut for size.

Reply #907520 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two years ago

Magnay's a bit too slightly built to play at the 5 in international ball, IMO. Would be a serviceable back up PF though.

Reply #907524 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

He used to be slight, he's not anymore. Kay and Landale were our 5s in Tokyo, Magnay is certainly no less physical than those guys.

Reply #907526 | Report this post




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