Frisbee14
Last year

36ers 2022/23 End of season review

Thankfully the season has finished, the corpse of the Sixers has stopped twitching with talk of a mathematical chance finally extinguished.
It began in spectacular fashion with the win over Phoenix after opening up the chequebook to bring in some high profile imports. The Randall saga has been well documented, one of the most toxic players in league history.
Then the downturn began from the first game of the season. The catchcry was that such a talented team couldn't possibly miss the playoffs, it was simply a matter of time before things clicked. Fans waited patiently for the next replacement import but were fed that players were being looked at, but no timeframe given. Was it simply cheapness, which seemed strange compared to the rest of the signings, or just incompetence. Probably a mixture of both.
Fans lamented the shortcomings of McCarron, one of the many jewels of JVGs reign. The head coach was woefully out of his depth, ironic that his predecessor was sacked at late notice allegedly over bringing DJ off the bench, when CJ finally buckled and did the same late in the season. Maybe CH knew something.
So all in all, another wasted season. So where from here.
End of season reviews are all the rage, so called experts will come in and interview those involved to uncover what was the root cause. So the usual suspects such as Phil, Jenny Williams, Gaze and probably an ex AFL coach who was sacked themselves for being terrible. Maybe someone from cricket, hockey or even soccer will be brought in. Wouldn't surprise me if Heal got a call, has more lives than a cat.
But what will really happen? The coaches will blame the players, and the players will blame the coaches. But all will stick to the usual storyline that everyone and everything will be looked at, no stone will be left unturned. No-one will be exempt.
I just wonder what the findings will uncover. Will the coaching staff have to go on more fact finding missions? Will prospective players have to undergo rigorous personality tests? Does the Gatorade have to be severed a degree colder? Perhaps painting the changerooms a more soothing colour will result in less stress at halftime.
How about finding a better coach and getting rid of dead wood players. Just an idea.

Topic #50881 | Report this topic


Beantown  
Last year

I think you're onto something there with the Gatorade Frisbee! :D

The team definitely under-performed given the level of talent. I never felt that this team lacked for effort either. They just couldn't work together at a high level consistently enough. That has to be largely on the coach.

The only thing that could muddy the waters a bit is the bad fit with McCarron at point guard and the lack of a dependable defensive big man. CJ could point to the lack of ability at those two positions as limitations that prevented him from installing a better system. Not sure he'd be right, but its possible his hands were tied by the flaws in the roster.

I actually thought Franks was quite a decent import, he was just forced to play a sub-optimal role given the other big men on the roster. I always thought he gave a strong effort and tried to be a leader on the team. He had some flaws, for sure, but he's a darn sight better than 90% of the imports we've had on the Sixers for the last 15 years!

If the Sixers could somehow fill either the point guard or defensive big roles with a local, then I'd be ok with keeping Franks, but it seems highly unlikely, so he probably has to make way.

I'd keep Drmic around - that play in today's game where he saved the ball from going out of bounds and got us a crucial score epitomises his commitment to the team. With Mike McKay getting recognised by the club this season, it made me think of Drmic as the modern day version. Guys like that you keep around.

I'd like to see Marshall and Galloway given more opportunities next season. Both have shown enough to suggest they can be effective NBL players in time.

Other than that, got to resolve the McCarron/ Dech problem somehow. Both good guys, but I don't think we can give both of them enough minutes once you bring in a gun point guard. I felt there was a lack of a role for Dech at the start of the season and he didn't get enough minutes, so he started forcing things.

Late in the season, when CJ didn't try to play him as a point guard anymore, Dech started to get some confidence back in his three point shot and made a few. For that reason, and because he is an absolute pest as a ball-hawk, I'd rather keep Dech over McCarron, but recognise that is a difficult thing to make happen.

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Master Chief  
Last year

Sixers recruiting a bit too revered from the start for me. Both Cleveland and Franks were great signings, but they also supposedly came at a high price without really elevating Adelaide that much. Cleveland was great and I think he needs to keep being aggressive offensively. I hope Adelaide can keep him. Would agree that I wouldn't be disappointed to see Franks go.

Lots of money in local players who have never been proven winners, and we all know DJ can be feeble defensively. No thought about how he and a young Sotto would compliment each other. And then Acouth may as well not even bothered rocking up.

Their bench wasn't as deep as many thought it was and lacked balance.

There was absolutely no spark at PG. McCarron deserves a bit of criticism for the past two seasons, but he just looked lost and confused in whatever CJ was trying to do to the point I'd challenge and point guard not to look bad.

The whole shambles of brining Ian Clark in at a cost of two months was not scrutinised enough.

Adelaide made almost every win look hard and they had some really poor blowout performances when the season was on the line.

Defensively they were terrible and had absolutely no offensive structure.

I think the players found themselves in an awkward position of liking CJ as a person, but knowing he had no idea as a coach.

Definitely feel for CJ, but not enough promise for me to justify continuing.

Hope would be that CJ learns from his mistakes and has some more helpful assistants.

Reply #911323 | Report this post


Statman84  
Last year

I for one, blame Kai Sotto.

Reply #911342 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Haha Statman, are you trying to get thousands of comments for this thread

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Q Anon  
Last year

Feel for CJ ? Losing 5 games in a row and still telling the team that they are doing the right things? Not having a single offence? No roles for the players? CJ is to blame for CJ

Reply #911354 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I think CJ would have to take responsibility for the imbalance of the team to an extent.

He did try lots of different things, so he gets credit in the sense that he was doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

I'd love to see Drmic return and I think Dech needs a role carved out for him that will make sense and give him something to focus on.

A lot of players, but Dech in particular usually looked out of place in that it was hard to understand the role they were playing. Often it meant them forcing things which doesn’t help.

His spark plug type role yesterday felt more like the Dech we want to see.

Adelaide needs to consider how to have a team with a smaller rotation. Don’t have 10-11 guys sharing the time. I’m sorry it doesn’t work. Yes, you have to hope for health and the like - but the rotation needs to be more confined.


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KET  
Last year

He wasn't doing*

Reply #911359 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

Feel for CJ in the way of his head coaching aspirations not going as he likely hoped.

Reply #911364 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

I have been a DJ supporter in the past.

There is no doubt that he was a big part of Adelaide's successes in the past. He was considered the dominant big man in the previous decade (in the NBL).

However there are increasingly more lows than highs with him. I can put up with the poor a) because its not in his DNA b) he would still be a net positive (more often than not) with his offence causing headaches for opposition bigs.

This year was the worst because not only did his efficiency drop (mainly due to his minutes) but his attitude has really regressed. Yesterday was a good example, he didn't look like he wanted to be there, his passing / turnovers were poor, his offence was even worse than non-existent.

I believe DJ can still contribute in this league as a bench player as all other good big men have done before him (Sengstock, Borner, Reidy etc). I just don't think he can do that under CJ.

I would prefer a fresh start without DJ. In fact one of the positives of this season is the team has shown DJ they're willing to play him less (let him know where the door is).

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Hanging Round  
Last year

A bit off topic, but the Adelaide Lightning had a much worse year and seem to be getting off very lightly.
Both teams finished in similar positions unfortunately, but most criticism is focused on 1 team only.

36ers disappointed us all for sure, but the 'import' turmoil did not help at all.
I expect some interesting decisions on the team for next season.

Reply #911378 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Keep
AC - Flat out winner.
Dech - Good 3 and D guy, took a backwards step this year with Randall and Clarke taking some of his minutes.
Clarke - Good shotmaker but needs plays run for him like in Sydney, not the give him the ball and sit back type.
Drmic if cheap
Harris - Serviceable.
Galloway - Decent shotblocker and shooter, needs more time to refine his game.
Marshall - I think has potential as he is willing to attack, also needs refining with time.

Drop
DJ - I will apply for his Japanese visa myself.
MM - I know he is contracted, someone please convince him to have some family reasons that he cannot continue.
Franks - Skilled scoring import but has a bad attitude and we need more defence in the front line.
Sotto - He is gone anyway.

McCarron is one of the blockers to success, I assume he will not go quietly into the night.

He is highly paid. So finding a gun import point guard is going to be a challenge. Not only that but if we get an import PG we would have to give up on Clarke, and then what, push McCarron to SG @ 18% from 3pt?

While MM has lost his outside shot, he is still an 'OK' passer, could we live with a MM @ PG and Clarke (full season at SG) arrangement for one more year?

Otherwise its Import PG then Dech at SG? Meaning we spend big on a bench player.

Would be nice to have a Marcus Lee or Pardon type big man next season but those are hard to find. We'd probably end up with the next Keith Benson or Rakeem Christmas knowing our track record.

As mentioned previously if DJ and Franks depart then we go from a highly potent offensive unit to rather bare in the cupboard. Much will rest on the quality of the import that replaces Franks.

Ironically next season would be Sotto's best chance to improve his game once DJ is gone.

Reply #911379 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I think we get caught up thinking guys don't work and wanting them cut instead of making tweaks to try and make things work.

It ends up being a rotating door and doesn’t resolve the root causes. If anything it can make things more problematic with no established culture, continuity, chemistry. It’s sort of just perpetual mess and chaos.

This year the balance was so clearly wrong. Last year and the year before, imports and injuries basically made Adelaide impotent.

I think the guards/wings ough to be structurely sorted already, assuming Drmic returns?

SF Cleveland/Drmic
SG McCarron/Dech
PG Import/Marshall

The backup PFs are probably sorted between Galloway and probably Harris since he is as liked as Teys was for Joey.

So that leaves your C and starting PF. If Franks stays they need a defensive Aussie. If Franks leaves, get a defensive import.

DJ being pushed out is a problem, it’s an unnecessary offensive hit tbh.

I wouldn’t be concerned with MMs shooting % more that I’d be concerned with finding that Ervin style PG and telling MM to shoot more.

Reply #911380 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Agree with LoveBroker

AC is priority 1 to lock up next year and agree with other Aussies on the keep list (Marshall, Dech, Drmic, Harris, Galloway), which are all high energy hustle players, ideally as the bench.

Adelaide next priority is a high level defensive big and PG. Why not try to get an Aussie for one of these spots.

Given they are having record crowds, which should continue or even improve with on court success, they should be able to up the spend from this year. Why not use the marquee spot to throw whatever is needed to get MDW or Kay, then fill the other spot with gun import. Both of these have right attitude.

They are then still 1 quality Aussie and import short (could be Clarke who has great shooting and attitude unless another more pressing need). Currently have DJ and MM, is one of them the answer, do they keep one or both or be ruthless? Where do they find an Aussie starter or 6th man at worst?

Will be interesting to see what happens, but think coaching needs some help if no changes. Want to see some plays and players who know their roles at both ends

Reply #911385 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

This team is also missing a back up PG.

I guess if we get an import PG then MM can jump in with 10 - 15 mins at PG.

Reply #911386 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

I think MM has had a poor couple of seasons, he doesn't look that fit to me, strong preseason and conditioning regime required and two, he hasn’t had a lot of high iq players around him. Fix these and he’ll be fine.

Reply #911387 | Report this post


Frisbee14  
Last year

I think I've asked this but could they arrange a sort of buyout for MM? Give him $100k and try and make up the rest elsewhere. He probably hasn't enjoyed his slide either and if he has a shocker again his next contract could be considerably less. Way less. Would actually be a good option for Hawks, try for a renaissance for a year and go after one more big contract. Or maybe in Perth if he's cheap enough.

One question I really have is what do you think CJ will say when given his take on what went wrong this year. He had a year under his belt, big signings and talent, which he may have been consulted about at least. Problem children in Randall and DJ, but majority was a clean slate. What possible answers could he give to give him another chance?

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NP  
Last year

He could say I didn't sign Mitch on big money to play as a point guard. A position I need someone who can break down opposition defences, someone who is willing to put some heat on the rim, someone who might like to shoot the god dam ball. And don’t get me started on his lack of leadership and D. He could say I didn’t sign Daniel Johnson on good money to be a turn style on D and be weak as on the offensive end. To sulk all season.
He could say I signed Bairstow last year who was one of our best players and unfortunately his body let him down. I signed Cleveland the should be defensive player of the year.
I’ve got a great South Aussie talent in Marshall coming through

Reply #911393 | Report this post


Basket 91  
Last year

Problem is DJ and Franks didn't fit together - too similar. A pardon type player would’ve fit better next to DJ

Reply #911394 | Report this post


NP  
Last year

I'd like to see Cleveland named captain

Import PG
Dech/Marshall
Cleveland/Drimic
Franks or import/ Harris
Yanni Wetzell/Galloway.

Done and dusted.

Reply #911395 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Still defensive issues at centre with Yanni, even though his effort at that end is a lot better than DJ. Still, that team with the right guard could outscore most.

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KET  
Last year

Better off including Mitch in any hypothetical, he isn't going to be bought out and there won’t be a mutually agreed departure.

We’d have heard rumbles if any of that were to be on the mind of either party.

DJ you could play that hypothetical because he isn’t signed, pushed to the bench, possibility of a bit of friction or "moving on" type of vibe

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Jonno  
Last year

Assuming McCarron, Franks and Cleveland are all locked in as it sounds they are

1st My priority is a import PG like Walton or Jaylen Adams type

2nd Aussie/NZ big, not sure how much money would be available but my preference order would be something like Kay, Reath, Maker, Wetzell, JLA, Motum, I have previously suggested Motum as I was thinking he would be the cheapest and most realistic, but yea would prefer the other options ahead of him if possible. If none of those guys are available try for a big guy like a Brandt or Jordan Hunter or even Mathiang another year removed from his injury may be better and worth a look if cheap enough. Basically get the best big available, basically all of them would be upgrades defensively from DJ

Would also try and get an actual back up PG , would have to be cheap, maybe someone like Zunic might be worth a look

So would be looking at something like

best big we can get/Galloway
Franks/Harris
Cleveland/Dech/Marshall
McCarron/Drmic
Jaylen Adams level PG/Zunic

Reply #911406 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Franks has not picked up his option

Remember he didn't want to be here as he thought he had a big Euro deal to go to.

Reply #911412 | Report this post


Jonno  
Last year

Ok, cool, if Franks does leave, then Id be looking for a import big like Marcus Lee or Derek Pardon to replace him.

Reply #911413 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Wetzel is playing at alba Berlin, he's not joining Sixers unless they got a spare half million lying around. Out of your list in reality the only one that might take pay cut from the league they are in is Motum.

Reply #911415 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Motum aint coming to Adelaide because of how Teys was treated

Reply #911417 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Franks has not picked up his option


You can see from the way he interacts with team mates that he doesn't really want to be here. Part of me wonders if Randall was the problem or there were others but he was just the most prominent.

Reply #911435 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

That spatial jam tracker doesn't say it’s an option and the article announcing Franks signing said 2 year deal.

It kinda sounds like you’re making that up?

Don’t get me wrong - I get that even a fully contracted import can pretty much bail by saying "I don’t want to be here" or “I’ve got other options I’d prefer”. And I definitely get the vibe that Franks won’t return.

It’s just different to saying he hasn’t picked up what appears to be a non-existent option.

Reply #911436 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Cleveland confirmed post game that he has picked up his option and said he didn't know about Franks ( he does know)

36ers are average at the detail on these announcements

The second year was player option for both players

Reply #911446 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I watched the post-game presser and that's not what was said though.

He said he’d be back and doesn’t have outs.

Perhaps you want to go back and re-listen?

Reply #911447 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

KET, neither Cleveland nor Franks is signing a fully locked in 2 year deal with us without the second year being a player option. Players want that luxury just in case something better comes along.

As QAnon said the Sixers are notorious (other teams aren't much better) for leaving details on contracts out. Like with DJ they advertised it as he re-signed with us to a 3 year deal in 2020 he didn't he signed a two-year extension on top of the one year remaining on his previous deal. Contract still ends in 2023 but of course 3 year deal sounds better than adding 2 years to his already existing year.

Reply #911451 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Post the link to the post game presser then

I posted on here weeks ago that he had picked up his option, DJ was going and that Kai was going to Japan

Reply #911452 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Sure, here is the link:

https://youtu.be/d9gQo-do_KA

2mins45 Olgun asks the question if he has options, Cleveland says no.

"Is the second year of your contract guaranteed...is there options, do you know?" Olgun asks
“No I'm back it’s the second year” Cleveland says.
“Are you under the impression Rob is also back” Olgun asks.
“I would think so” Cleveland says.

“As QAnon said the Sixers are notorious (other teams aren't much better) for leaving details on contracts out.”
Yeah but I’m just saying it wasn’t right to state that Cleveland said he had picked up the option when he says no to the question on options.

I understand that Olgun flipping his question mid-sentence makes for an easy misinterpretation.

And spatial jam isn’t the worst site to follow for contract info tbh.

Reply #911459 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I'm not sure about spatial jam I've only looked at that site once a few years ago noticed they had a contract listed incorrectly and never went back. I remember all the contracts from the time they were announced to probably around 99% accuracy anyway.

Reply #911463 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Not trying to say I know better or anything, was just pointing out that what was said in the presser was misinterpreted.

For me, none of the things said sound outrageous - I can see Franks, Sotto, DJ not returning. Drmic negotiating etc.

They're sort of the three things I’d expect just from gauging the situations anyway.

The issue we have is what on earth they plan to do to make the bigs situation better if they have all three gone?

At least if they kept DJ they could have a defensive import and run that combination ok.

Reply #911466 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Just on that Cleveland contract thing taking your quotes as legit I can see where there might be a misinterpretation.

Cleveland is said to have already picked up or decided to come back. Olgun starts off asking "Is it guaranteed" the answer to that is yes of course it is, that probably confused AC a bit player option or fully-guaranteed is 100% guaranteed in the eyes of the player, Olgun tacked on a bit more "are there options" so AC shuts the whole line of questioning down by saying "No I'm back".

Reply #911467 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I'm just going to leave this here:

"Intrigue surrounds import Robert Franks with the club playing a waiting game on the gifted 201cm forward.

It’s understood Franks will have another crack at the NBA in the summer or seek a big-money deal overseas, with the Sixers not yet certain he will return.

Despite some reports Franks’ second year involves an option, both the club and NBL confirmed the former Orlando Magic stretch four is fully contracted for next season and would need to be bought out of that deal, should an overseas club want his services."

Reply #914639 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

In other words he's more likely going to be back than not then.

*Sigh*

Reply #914643 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

The only real positive in that is we gave both AC and Franks 2 year deals and they both have the same agent too so if Franks' second year is fully guaranteed then AC's probably is too.

Reply #914646 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

They both were on 2 year deals, guaranteed.

The way everything has been conveyed leads us to believe the below:

Cleveland is returning, save for whatever hypothetical applies to every nbl player: a mind-changing offer from overseas etc.

Ie, the intention is to return.

Franks is not returning assuming a nice overseas offer will be made.

Ie, the intention is to not return. 36ers are a fail safe, for Franks, I guess.

Obviously, Franks would need to be bought out.

Reply #914647 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

That's right but if not bought out Franks will be back.

Reply #914648 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Was Franks good enough for Sixers to demand a buy back, are Sixers just better letting him go ?

Reply #914651 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

If he's physically with Sixers but his heart isn’t, which seemed to be the case for much of last season, then it will be worse for Sixers than last season.
Personally, I’d cut the ties and hope to get an import with better attitude, higher quality and better fit.

Reply #914653 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

They can't cut ties with Franks without paying him out, he's under contract for next season.

NBL Free Agency officially gets underway on Thursday, March 30, with McCarron committed to Adelaide alongside Sunday Dech, Nick Marshall, Antonius Cleveland, Robert Franks and Kyrin Galloway.


https://nbl.com.au/news/mccarron-locked-in-at-adelaide

Reply #914654 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I think it'd be more a case of Franks wanting out rather than Adelaide wanting to move on from Franks.

Even though many of us may prefer a different direction....

Reply #914655 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Sure but I was just reply to hoopie who said he would like to see us cut ties with him, which we basically can't do.

Imports don't tend to leave money on the table especially the reported big money he's on, whatever that is, so in the absence of a better offer for him keeping in mind his stock has dropped a bit given the year he had with us compared to the year he had with the Bullets so that bigger offer might not come.

Reply #914657 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I should add Santa said in those comments above that the Sixers had to be a bit disappointed in Franks' play this past season compared to his Bullets season. Santa doesn't talk out of school. He knows exactly what's going on behind the scenes at all times he's either knows for a fact the Sixers were disappointed or perhaps they intentionally slipped him that knowledge to let Franks know they would prefer he didn't come back.

Reply #914658 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Whoops those Santa comments were in the Free Agency thread:

"He was good last season, but not great," Santamaria said of Franks. “He wasn't what everybody and the Adelaide 36ers thought or hoped he would be in terms of that guy at Brisbane who had the potential to be an all-league type performer.

“There was an option on the second year of that contract, was that a player option, a mutual option? How that decision making process is taking place, I’m not sure.

“It doesn’t surprise me that the Adelaide 36ers are keen to look how else they can structure that front court.”


https://nbl.com.au/news/adelaide-legend-set-to-move-on

Reply #914659 | Report this post




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