larrycucumber2
Last year

Boomers vs Slovenia, 1 Sep

New thread for the game tonight...

Hoping for a great win!

Topic #51364 | Report this topic


hoopie  
Last year

Luka appears to be in good health, even though earlier games have shaken him up a bit.

I know that we feel we have stronger individuals in this team than last time (apart from our centres). Is the team around him stronger than last time we faced them?

Reply #924304 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Last year

I'm quietly (perhaps hopefully) confident.

Slovenia pretty much play 4 guards and a lumbering centre at all times. Their starting PF is 6'7. This allows us to match that which plays into our hands. With the need to be able to help, support and double onto Luka, I hope we rarely see Reath and Kay on the floor at the same time.

Their centres are really immobile and slow too. Tobey is a shell of a man who led the olympics in rebounding. I noted that he's barely getting off the ground and trying to tip rebounds to advantage rather than clunking them. Maybe carrying an injury. The back up is a huge brute that's a bit out of control and has heavy hands.

I think attacking the rim and attacking the o boards could give us the advantage we need. I'd like to see Matisse, or Cooks start at the 4 and leave Kay/ Reath for the 5 position.

Boomers by 16

Reply #924305 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Other thread with stats shows Slovenia last in the comp with 0.7 blocks per game. I haven't watched enough of their games to know if opposition just jacked 3's or whether this creates a big opportunity for us.

I agree with Crazy8, we should be attacking the rim relentlessly to exploit this, which we have the players to do.

Cooks could have a field day again similar to Japan game.

Their slowness inside should allow us to double Luka more aswell to try to slow him down.

Boomers by more than 4 points, GO BOOMERS!

Reply #924311 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Slovenia struggled to put away Venezuela and Cape Verde until late in the game.

Whereas Aussies ran riot over Finland in the 2nd half and won by 26, and opened up a 30 odd lead over Japan.

Based purely on form in the opening round Aussies look clearly the better team.

Slovenia are missing Cancar and G Dragic who both played Eurobasket last year (where they finished 4-1 including wins over Germany and France, but then got knocked out by Poland in a quarter final). Those were their 2nd and 3rd scorers after Doncic (14.9ppg and 11.6ppg).

Reply #924314 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Tobey shouldn't be on his last legs - only 28 years old. Reath is 27, Cooks 28, Kay 31.

Reply #924321 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Last year

Injury perhaps? He really didn't get off the ground at all in their last game. He was often in a crowd tipping it out, ending up in giving up offensive boards.

Averaging 5.7 boards in 27 mins. Averaged 10.5 in 29 mins at the olympics 2 years ago (against more solid opposition).

Reply #924323 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Some good reviews above, I'm very confident as per above I believe our forwards will dominate, Luka is Luka, rotate different defensive looks at him, Thybulle, Green and I think White could really annoy him. Boomers by 15.

Reply #924327 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I am hesitant to predict anything because I am not sure if we have seen the real Boomers yet. I feel like the potential is there to make a mess of Alovenia but they could also lose. Boomers scare me a lot in this tournament

Reply #924332 | Report this post


Most people thought we would beat Germany.
But unfortunately we lost.
Most people said Cooks should be cut.
But he is doing better than Kay and White.
Sports don't go as expected. I think it's 50/50.

Reply #924333 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

The betting odds are about $1.40 to $2.85 or something like that

With a line of 5.5 points

That seems about fair, If I had to tip to save my life I'd say Boomers by 6 or 7.

Would be interested though in knowing whether the international betting markets agree, ie is Sportsbet tilted slightly towards the Boomers.

Reply #924334 | Report this post


BALLER#3  
Last year

I have watched a decent amount of the Slovenia games. They are literally the mavs. All shooters and no decent bigs.

Cooks could have a big game again tbh.

Reply #924336 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

All these games against good international teams are winnable and loseable. Obviously making shots, defending ball-screens and cleaning the glass are massive. If the Boomers tick those three things off well they should get home, but the margin is small.

Reply #924337 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Would be interested though in knowing whether the international betting markets agree, ie is Sportsbet tilted slightly towards the Boomers.

Odds are the same worldwide.

(Funnily enough those Sportsbet odds you refer to originate from Ireland since the parent company is based there.)

Reply #924350 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

With Germany beating Georgia this is now officially a knockout game for Australia.

Reply #924351 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Yes it's on now, must win, I’m still confident though.

Reply #924353 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Fingers crossed

Reply #924354 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Latvia beat Spain and Italy beat Serbia, oh my. It's never over till the fat lady sings

Reply #924355 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Gaze on the pre game just said Australia are going with the same starting 5 ...

And Josh Giddey will get first crack guarding Doncic.

Either Gazey's getting a bit old and is hearing stuff, or Australia have made a very confusing call there.

Reply #924356 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

With Latvia beating Spain, Canada will be more likely to win that pool.

Need a win tonight and then carry over our support Slovenia to beat Germany. Do or die.

Reply #924362 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Oh no! Corey Williams has cancer. :(

Reply #924363 | Report this post


Lawndale  
Last year

Jeez that's horrible news

Reply #924364 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Couldn't be a worse start. Trouble.

Reply #924365 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Last year

Boomers look all at sea at the moment. At both ends.

Reply #924366 | Report this post


SmallieBiggs  
Last year

Yeh terrible start and some sad news about Homicide.

Reply #924367 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Stage four, horrific news for Corey, a true gentleman.

Reply #924368 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Who was it that listed all these supposed "scorers" we have?

Without Mills going bang bang bang, we are feked, there's no scoring threats

Reply #924369 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

It goes to show even though Gleeson used to lay strips off of Homicide and famously benched him in a playoff series it was all business.

Reply #924370 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Why are we so SLOW in transition? And taking so many 3s when the key is so open?

Reply #924371 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

It's a shame we can’t buy a 3.

Reply #924372 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Can't defend either.

Reply #924373 | Report this post


1st quarter problem
offense and defense

Reply #924374 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Meh at these Giddey isos.

Reply #924375 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

and what a way to dig our hole even deeper.

Reply #924376 | Report this post


There was more loss from double teaming than there was gain from double teaming.

Reply #924377 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

After that News what boomers are doing is making it a horrid evening, can Gleeson help the coaches out.

Reply #924378 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Last year

This offence is garbage.

Reply #924379 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Their big is ruining us - unsurprising, since we knew this is our issue

We aren't sinking threes without Mills doing it, unsurprising, we knew we didn’t have scorers (except Ingles and Goulding....one isn’t taking the shot the other isn’t getting minutes)

We aren’t moving well because Giddey isn’t really a PG per se.

This hysteria is becoming cold hard reality :(

Reply #924380 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Wow wtf is this garbage? Embarrassing stuff.

Reply #924381 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

Struggling against European execution?

Reply #924382 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Kay p, ingles and Thybulle killin us this tournament

Reply #924383 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

And our NBA players don't know the FIBA tricks which get favourable ref calls like Slovenia do

Reply #924384 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Luka on three fouls, there is light

Reply #924385 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

No excuses now with that massive bailout.

Reply #924386 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

We gotta turn this around ASAP with Luka on the bench till half time probably

Reply #924387 | Report this post


Patty
FG 0/4

Reply #924388 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Mills is killing us the most.

Reply #924389 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Trying to play nba style in an international tournament is ludicrous

Reply #924390 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Get white in the game for some energy...

Reply #924391 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

3 fouls on Dimic in 3 mins. Fair effort!

Reply #924392 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Goorj has no plan B.
We can't hit the side of a barn.

Reply #924393 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

And Giddey.

Reply #924394 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

A loss here and goorj and 4-5 players got to go before next year.

Reply #924395 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

New era with Gleeson.

Reply #924396 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

How many turnovers Mills?

Reply #924397 | Report this post


Patty's 2 turnovers in a row

Reply #924398 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

This is an extremely hard watch.

Reply #924399 | Report this post


SmallieBiggs  
Last year

Not making up any ground with Luka out!

Reply #924400 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

The worst thing is even if we pull it out a narrow win isn't enough to control our own destiny.

Reply #924401 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

The best thing about this game is Gleeson's commentary

Reply #924402 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Oh, and the Canadian ref. He's all class.

Reply #924403 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Refs , oh my, right call but the Luka was very generous. Game has turned to shit. Need the actors union out there

Reply #924404 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

We're getting stops but our offence is just so so shit

Reply #924405 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

Slovenians doing their best to flop us back into it

Reply #924406 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Gleeson should be the sideline

Reply #924407 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Australia isn't winning this +4

Reply #924408 | Report this post


Crackers65  
Last year

I don't think Goorjian even has a plan A. Dribble,dribble,dribble and then dribble, dribble, dribble some more. Need to tell them that you’re still allowed to pass in FIBA.

Reply #924409 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Ingles hasn't hit a shot all tournament. Most disappointing player for me.

Reply #924410 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

I like that main ref. Takes no shit.

Reply #924411 | Report this post


free throw please

Reply #924412 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Nail in the coffin. Damn.

Reply #924413 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

That screen on the screener/roller play for Tobey was a great little counter to our doubling/trapping. It would be great if we did some sort of actual proper basketball action. Out coached? or maybe it's just a matter of hitting the open threes...

Reply #924414 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

This is painful.

Reply #924415 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Giddey just caused a five point swing, the kid doesn't get it.

Reply #924416 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Perth fans frothing over Gleeson....but also low key enjoying his commentary and want more of it in the NBL

Reply #924417 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

I don't blame Giddey, I blame the coaching staff. Kid is still young, he's getting no real coaching.

Reply #924418 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

He would bring in Kay as starting pf, no thanks.
BA don't like him. The majority of players do not like him.

Reply #924419 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Last year

Still anyone's. Make a few more shots and right back in this. Half time deficit is about as good as we could have hoped for.

Reply #924420 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Feels like Ingles is just a liability with his slow feet on defence, and on offence either bricks a shot or makes the wrong read.

Clearly our lineups aren't working, why not try something different like Jack White??

Reply #924421 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Can they connect Trev up for a zoom call to the locker room for halftime?

(Btw, um from Melbourne)

Reply #924423 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

This team is built to create turnovers and wreak havoc in transition.
But we're creating SFA live ball turnovers - credit to Slovenia - and our half court O is trash.

On the plus side, somehow only down 9.

Reply #924424 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

I didn't realise we were this bad. They held us off so easily even with Luka on the bench for most of that quarter. We’re not coming back from this. Just not enough. Disappointing. Ingles has been terrible. Giddey really average. At least Mills has started hitting a few.

Reply #924425 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Kay plus two, only player in the plus, mills and Inglis minus ten. You can can bag Kay and I have but you don't go backwards when he’s on the court.

Reply #924426 | Report this post


Screeningnick  
Last year

Giddey makes a fancy pass every now and then but plays no defense and has horrendous shot selection.

Watching Ingles out there is tough.

I really think we need to play CG. Our offense is horrendous.

Reply #924427 | Report this post


Statman  
Last year

Ingles looking like the old guy at midweek social who was a Div 1 player 10 years prior - slow, holding off the ball and complaining to the ref every chance he gets

Reply #924428 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Slovenia haven't exactly been convincing either.

Bizarre game where the only good performance has been from the officiating crew.

Reply #924429 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Bizarre game where the only good performance has been from the officiating crew.
_____
Gold Perthworld.

Reply #924431 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Iso and driving into traffic isn't going to win this for us.

Play Exum as much as possible at PG.

Play Mills and Goulding off the ball, play Giddey off the ball. More Green, less Thybulle.

See if White can come on and agitate.

Reply #924432 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

White should also get out and show his enthusiasm, I can still see a win here, only nine down after that garbage. Can Luka stay out foul trouble, not convinced.

Reply #924434 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

I'm not giving up hope yet. We are playing trash and we are only down 9. If we turn it on, we can absolutely win this. I hope.

Reply #924437 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

"Slovenia haven't exactly been convincing either."

I don't know what you consider convincing, but Slovenia has been good. They’ve shot well and have suffocated our offence. We never got close in that half.

Reply #924438 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Did Mills just miss a massive opportunity on our that last offensive play of the half? Looked like he got Luka in the air and just had to step under him to get the contact and 4th foul.

Rightly getting slammed at half time, have been beaten all over the court. Is Giddey or top rebounder, must be close, I haven't checked stats but feels like we are getting smashed on boards

Reply #924439 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

They should be up by more but weirdly decided to start acting badly.

Reply #924440 | Report this post


I will shout again today.
If it had been Maker instead of Daniels or Goulding, it would at least have helped us.

Reply #924441 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

We are supposed to be an elite team on D and we have been terrible.

Reply #924442 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Down by 9 and Slovenia have scored 11 points from turnovers.

Agree with above suggestions, bring on CG & White.
Exum at point.

As a team, box out pleeease.

Theoretically, Slovenia might cool down from the arc in the 2nd half????

Reply #924443 | Report this post


I don't know what my team wants to do.
It's not even an offensive team. So is it the defense team? no. It's not even a defense team.

Reply #924444 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

They're a Goorjian sludgeball team.

Reply #924445 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Another holding the ball too long

Another turnover

Reply #924446 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

If things continue to look disjointed (well, that would be normal, so extra disjoined). I wouldn't mind seeing White out there for a moment - just see how he goes. On one hand he's a decent rebounder and shooter, but on the other he had like 4 TOs in 5 minutes or something against France...

Reply #924447 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Oh my Giddey.

Reply #924448 | Report this post


Where have all the people who ignored Tobey gone?

Reply #924449 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Doncic fourth foul.

Reply #924450 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Nup, not happening tonight. Nowhere near it.

Reply #924451 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Damn, getting Lukas 4th foul just before half time would be handy now

Reply #924452 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Team just does not want it

Reply #924453 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Giddey's ridiculously overrated.

Reply #924454 | Report this post


The good news is that the number of fouls in Slovenia is increasing.

Reply #924455 | Report this post


Screeningnick  
Last year

Delly + Sobey > Giddey.

And no I'm not exaggerating.

Reply #924456 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

wow Giddey never gets the ball and we actually move it and score, huh...

Reply #924457 | Report this post


For now, we have to focus on Patty.

Reply #924458 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Giddey you don't have the space in FIBA so stop driving aimlessly!

Reply #924459 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Those rebounds Jesus Christ

Reply #924460 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Need it at 6pts by 3QT

Reply #924461 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Tech foul wtf

Refs that was a double screw up

Reply #924462 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Even the refs suck now.

This is an excruciating watch.

Reply #924463 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Ingles shoot the ball!!

Reply #924464 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

We just can't get close. No momentum at any stage. It’s hard to believe really. And how bad has Cooks been?

Reply #924465 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

Exum is definitely an NBA player

Reply #924466 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

No idea how Slovenia have let us back into this.

Bizarre bizarre game.

Reply #924467 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Why bother have a challenge if you don't challenge the blatantly obvious?

Useless system. If you succeed you should keep it.

Reply #924468 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Double miss by Mills.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.

Reply #924469 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Yeah the FIBA challenge rules are bizarre just like this shitastic game.

Reply #924470 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

This is too frustrating.

Reply #924471 | Report this post


SmallieBiggs  
Last year

We just don't have shooters on this team. In a time where shooting is at a premium we have slashers who can defend but not shoot.

Reply #924472 | Report this post


Screeningnick  
Last year

Give all of Joes minutes to CG and White.

Reply #924473 | Report this post


If Ingles can't do anything, shouldn’t we use White?

Reply #924474 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Why Gleeson yappin about rebounding and d when his s5 before the tournament was Giddey, mills, ingles, Kay, Reath.

Reply #924475 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

We don't even have layer-uperers. Mills missing those two under the basket could have cut it down to a five point margin.

Reply #924476 | Report this post


Giddey is hot.

Reply #924477 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Slovenia unconvincing.

Bizarrely we're back in this.

Reply #924478 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Need a fast start not a slow start like v Germany

Reply #924479 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Complain about Giddey all you want, but he gets it done when we need him.

Cmon boys. 4 point game. Bring it home!

Reply #924480 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Well this is as good as we could have hoped. Suddenly not hopeless.

Reply #924481 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Unbelievable we're in this.

Reply #924482 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

And I count 6 flops, 5 of which were rewarded.

Reply #924483 | Report this post


SmallieBiggs  
Last year

Cmon lads. Somehow in this!

Reply #924484 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Vomit.

Reply #924485 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Giddey going hero ball?

Reply #924486 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Giddy hero Ball is the best offence we have

Reply #924487 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Neither side going anywhere

Reply #924488 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Sigh.

Reply #924489 | Report this post


Kay can no longer defend at World Cup level.

Reply #924490 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

0-7. Boards haven't been great.

Reply #924491 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

The positive out of this is there should be a refresh before 2024.

Reply #924492 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

It's the hope that kills you.

Reply #924493 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Well, at least we got to see a few fast breaks like we were promised before the WC began. Most of this game we've been playing Euro ball but with NBA players.

Reply #924494 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

For as clunky as our offense has been, we have got some good looks from the corner (not hitting them of course). still 9 point difference with no Luka.. have to admit rebounds and shooting issues makes it extra tough.

Reply #924495 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Someone grab a bloody rebound!

Reply #924496 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Ingles is cooked.

Reply #924497 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Dare I say that Goorjian been out-coached?

Reply #924498 | Report this post


Screeningnick  
Last year

Ingles wouldn't even make a Big V team.

Reply #924499 | Report this post


Big Fudge  
Last year

Ingles and Mills have frustrated me so much this WC, Mills whilst showing signs of brilliance just forces the issue too much.

This has been so painful to watch, weekend ruined!!!

Reply #924500 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Game has gone past Goorj.

Reply #924501 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

The end of

Goorjian
Caporn
Patrick
Nielsen
Goulding
Ingles
Kay


On the chopping board for next year

Daniels
Thybulle


Safe

Giddey
Exum
Mills
Green
White
Cooks
Reath

Reply #924502 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Came undone very fast.

Not sure what Ingles has been providing out there.

Reply #924503 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Good to finally see some pressure defence from some of the guys.

Reply #924504 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Watch one of Germany and Slovenia rose gold it for the extra gut punch.

Reply #924505 | Report this post


Frogface19  
Last year

Beat me to it Weedy... couldn't agree more

Reply #924506 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Yep. Weedy nailed it.

Reply #924507 | Report this post


CG404  
Last year

This is just so disheartening

Reply #924508 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Agree Weedy, except Daniels. Kid hasn't had a chance

Reply #924509 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Pretty disgraceful. Thoroughly out coached and outplayed. Wtf happened to this team since the Olympics? I thought we were a medal chance? We haven't looked anywhere near it at any stage of this tournament.

Reply #924510 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Slovenia's offense is miles ahead of ours.

Reply #924511 | Report this post


Shaggy  
Last year

What a cluster!

Boy do we miss a body like Landale n the paint.

Sorry Joe, it's not us, it's you.

Reply #924512 | Report this post


Diop Kick  
Last year

I've always thought that Goorijan was overrated, he walked into the bronze after all the work Lemanis and the team had done

Reply #924513 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Wtf happened to this team since the Olympics?
Goorjian had time to make the team his own instead of having to work within what Lemanis had built.

Reply #924514 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

But daniels has no offense like Thybulle, we are better off with green and Galloway.

Reply #924515 | Report this post


Bent Kenson  
Last year

Can't put it all on the coaching, of course, but still - thoroughly out coached.

Reply #924516 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

What really f*cks me off is that the media will act like Giddey is MVP because he scored over 20 points, ignoring what he gave up and how much he held back the running game.

Reply #924517 | Report this post


Screeningnick  
Last year

Boomers more concerned about making a movie about winning bronze and doing cringe cultural nights than actually focusing on basketball.

Reply #924518 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Kay is the only boomer in the plus on the court, for those that don't understand, when he is on the court we don’t go backwards.
Stop bagging him.

Reply #924519 | Report this post


Gus3232  
Last year

I remember the days when we had nothing but shooters (Gaze and Heal) and now we have NOBODY that can hit a shot?

Reply #924520 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Nice of Goorjian to play White some token time

Reply #924521 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Galloway is so overrated, he's barely an NBL starter. Daniels is light years ahead on offence and defence

Reply #924522 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Disagree but we will see...

Reply #924523 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

And you're a casual if you think Nick Kay doesn't deserve to be on the Paris team

Reply #924524 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Look, people need to stop being so hysterical. The team will get it together when it matters, we just have to believe.

Reply #924525 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Should've tried something different earlier. Stubborn Goorjian.

Reply #924526 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Giddey was given too much responsibility at his young age. Exum should have been the starting pg

Reply #924527 | Report this post


KWhite_Rulez  
Last year

That effort was fucking embarrassing! Couldn't hit the side of a barn.

Reply #924528 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Adam Caporn has been the one drawing up every single offensive set we run in every time out, and we know where that's gotta us.

Reply #924529 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last year

Outcoached, outplayed, wrong squad.
Never a chance.

Reply #924530 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Which year were you thinking, Kobe?

Reply #924531 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

MaxM
Kay is cooked... deal with it.

Reply #924532 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

Reminds me of capitulation to Serbia after playing so well prior, but can't recall what tournament that was?

Systematic European plans and execution seems to be a problem for Australia, and haven't looked nearly good enough all tournament, despite having plenty of talent.

Probably time for change, but have to appreciate how much Goorjian has done for Australian Basketball.

Just goes to show that basketball is a true global sport and rightly called a world cup.

Maybe France and Australia in same boat right now?

Reply #924533 | Report this post


JT  
Last year

Very disappointing. Something has been off all tournament. Will BA have the guts to make a call on Goorjian?

We'll always have Tokyo, thanks for the memories guys, but it’s now time to change the guard.

Reply #924534 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last year

People looking deeper than the obvious here, you can't play international basketball without outside shooting, the team was picked on overall skill whilst lacking in the most important one. No coaching staff could win with this team, and it's not about any one individual, player or coach not being up to it.

Reply #924535 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last year

People looking deeper than the obvious here, you can't play international basketball without outside shooting, the team was picked on overall skill whilst lacking in the most important one. No coaching staff could win with this team, and it's not about any one individual, player or coach not being up to it.

Reply #924536 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

"What really f*cks me off is that the media will act like Giddey is MVP because he scored over 20 points, ignoring what he gave up and how much he held back the running game."

Then again, he single handedly dragged us back into the game towards the end of the third. The only time we got closer than 7. It's ridiculous to blame him. Absolutely no one covered themselves in glory.

What a deflating game.

Reply #924537 | Report this post


Why did Ingles play 26 minutes? Is it because it is his last World Cup?

Reply #924538 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Giddey was given too much responsibility at his young age. Exum should have been the starting pg

The most disappointing aspect of this campaign was how Goorjian kept yielding to Giddey's NBA status like a n00b coach.

Reply #924539 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Reminds me of capitulation to Serbia after playing so well prior, but can't recall what tournament that was?
2016.

Reply #924540 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

I don't believe that Slovenia will medal - we made it too easy for them, so that they looked like world-beaters.

Reply #924541 | Report this post


spEKTre  
Last year

Coach has to go, no height and couldn't rebound if our life depended on it. Giddey tried his heart out but had little support.

Reply #924542 | Report this post


Bol  
Last year

What a demolition. The final scoreline flattering. Missing Lemanis' offensive sets there just seemed to be no game plan or execution this WC

Reply #924543 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Slovenia certainly knew how to play to FIBA refs better than we did with our NBA players.

Reply #924544 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Goorjian boasted in his interview that the difference between medalling in 2021 and missing out in 2016 & 2019 was how they defended the on-ball. I thought that was off the mark, and certainly tonight their plans to defend on-balls and Doncic were poor and Slovenia picked their rotations apart.

The difference was in 2021 the Boomers were the experienced team playing Slovenia who were in the medal rounds for the first time, rather than playing a very hardened Spain or France who'd been there many times before.

Looking ahead to Paris, there are challenges finding shooters to put around Giddey. Obviously Landale back helps, but the spacing on the floor tonight was poor a lot of the time, and perhaps it was the time to try Jack White to give rim protection, rebounding and outside shooting, all of which were needed in this game.

Reply #924545 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

PARIS SQUAD
6'0 88 Mills SG
6'6 95 Exum PG + SF + SG
6’6 00 Green SF + SG
6’7 97 White PF + SF
6’8 02 Giddey PG
6’8 95 Cooks PF + C
6’10 96 Simmons PF + PG + C
6’11 96 Reath C + PF
6’11 95 Landale C
+1 SG/PG
+1 SF/SG
+1 any position

In the mix
6’0 92 Cotton* SG
6’2 97 Vasiljevic SG
6’5 98 Mcdowell-White PG
6’5 04 Proctor PG + SG
6’5 97 Thybulle* SF
6’6 02 Galloway SF + SG
6’7 03 Daniels SG + PG + SF
6’9 95 Pinder C + PF
7’0 97 Maker C + PF

No for me
6’4 88 Goulding SG
6’8 87 Ingles SF + PG
6’9 92 Kay PF + C


Creek blacklisted...

Reply #924546 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

I even created a model with all of the permutations going into Sunday for advancing/claiming the top seed.

What a colossal waste of time - computer now simply spits out a big fat 'NO!'.

Reply #924547 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Again go and look at the plus, minuses on anyone who played minutes, some big names that were very average, I'm amazed how bad we performed, I’ve thought we would eventually get it together.
It could be time for a few changes, if goorg stays coach move on Caporn, you can’t have two coaches coaching on the bench.
The good news we are in Paris.

Reply #924548 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Gleeson just said that Slovenia's game plan was superior - you said it, Trev.

Reply #924549 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Feel like Australia could have really used a Bryce Cotton tn with how much they sucked on offence.

Is Thybule really needed as a naturalised player with other defensive wings such as Green, Daniels etc?

Reply #924550 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

What about...

Forde - HC
Roth - culture
Gleeson - D and rebounding
Lemanis - offense

Reply #924551 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

I hope Simmons pulls out again. Nowhere near good enough for such a gigantic primadonna. Won't do any good for team chemistry either.

Reply #924553 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

You can't challenge charge/block, why are we debating this?

Reply #924554 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Giddey, Thybulle, Ingles and Exum were 1/12 from 3p between them. Slovenia's plan to pack the paint and take away our offensive rebounding was smart, we needed to make them pay from outside and didn't.

There were lots of open shots to be had there for Duop Reath with their bigs dropping, with the struggles to score he needed to be put out there more and fed the ball to make Slovenia adjust.

Reply #924555 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Let's see how players play in various places around the world before we say who should be in and out, remember that the Olympics are fiba rules and while nba is the best competition in the world you some times need a mix of both. Again, look at the plus, minus of Kay before you say he’s finished.

Reply #924556 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Would Goorjian challenging the Patty block and maybe getting Doncic fouled off have made the difference?

Reply #924557 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

We need two additional quality bigs - it'll have to be Landale at C and Simmons playing PF/C.

They need to fit athletic wings in to a system, not have a system-less all athletic wings approach. More time for shooters on court, don’t stack all the time with athletic wings

Reply #924558 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Would Goorjian challenging the Patty block and maybe getting Doncic fouled off have made the difference?


You can't challenge charge/block, why are we debating this?

Reply #924559 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Sorry, Kobe, you beat me to it

Reply #924560 | Report this post


After watching the warm-up game we played, I was dissatisfied with the overall performance and most people said that the warm-up game was pointless because it hides a lot of cards that will be used in practice. But what we showed in the warm-up game was real.
I said I should choose Maker instead of Goulding or Daniels, but I got a lot of criticism.
Many people ignored Tobey, but he dominated our inside.

Reply #924561 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Sorry, Kobe, you beat me to it
Twice!

Reply #924562 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

Gold vibes only....

Got a little bit ahead of ourselves there.

Box out, rebound.
Offensive -execution.
Bigs who can post up.
This wasnt just tonight, it was the whole tournament.

Yes, the players tried their ass off, genuine credit to them, but offensively, we were one dimensional most of the time.

The small ball experiment was evidently unsuccessful (why drop 3 bigs at the first cut, and not even have Magnay at camp?)

European teams know how to execute on repeat, like clockwork.

To be fair, the players did their best.
We're clearly hindered by a lack of competative preparation and some coaching decisions in the form of selection, lack of offensive structure, time outs at wrong times and line ups that get exploited by opposition teams.


Maor, Roth, Gleeson, Ford.

Reply #924564 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

The challenge rules are like the Australian tax legislation- there's an exception to every exception. Gleeson clearly doesn't know them

Aussies D early was terrible. Lacklustre doubling of everything and poor rotations leading to easy buckets

Ultimately our offense relies on individual brilliance from Giddey and Mills but otherwise its been terrible.

Landale's screens have been missed, and Nick Kay hasn't been the same Kay we saw in 2019 and 2021. With the old Kay and Landale the offense may have looked different.

Hope we play Slovenia in Paris.

Reply #924567 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Tobey has been poor throughout tournament, today he beat up on Australian bigs, Cooks has been good, he needs to get a jump shot otherwise he's no threat, coaches no these things, also we got beat by Germany of the stripe, again foul him and you don’t pay. White should have played more, Exum, the same.

Reply #924569 | Report this post


Kay's achievements are great, but now is the time to accept reality.
His strengths were essential to our team, but now his weaknesses have outweighed his strengths. Kay also turns 32 next year.

Reply #924570 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

Listening to Maor's timeouts in the NBL, I don't think we want him as our head coach running our offence...

Reply #924571 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

"After watching the warm-up game we played, I was dissatisfied with the overall performance and most people said that the warm-up game was pointless because it hides a lot of cards that will be used in practice. But what we showed in the warm-up game was real."

I will put my hand up Patty, my mistake thinking Goorj could build a team and coach. He has slowed down a lot and the game has certainly passed him by.

In hindsight, he rode on Lemanis' coat tails with bronze medal

Reply #924572 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

You need a good offence for role players like Kay to operate in. Goorj decided to back in Giddey, Mills and Exum off the dribble. It was a very different approach to the Lemanis system and tonight it didn't work, became a dribble fest.

Reply #924573 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

We don't have enough shooters. That is obviously the biggest problem. Without Mills going beast mode, we got nothing. Who hits the clutch 3s? We need quality shooters more than we need additional quality bugs. Simmons is the last thing we need in international competitions.

Reply #924575 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

To be fair to coach, without Jock he probably had to throw out part of their original playbook and gameplan.

He's a traditional style coach, the modern style of small ball and fast position less basketball is just not for him.

Reply #924576 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Across the 4 games...

Players who disappointed me- Ingles, Green

To a lesser extent Kay and Thybulle who didn't have the same impact they previously did with Boomers

Reath not used enough.

Team lacks balance as others have noted.

Goorjian is the coach who guided us to Bronze. Calls to sack him after one bad game feels like calls to sack Lemanis after the Rio smashing by Serbia. We can look for a new coach after Paris.

Reply #924579 | Report this post


Pablo Escobar  
Last year

This team has not been right from the get go. In the past it has been Ingles and Mills' team. In one foul swoop the keys to the kingdom have been handled to a 20 year old Giddey. Talented yes, but doesn't have the runs on the board to be given that. That would grate on the old guys who have done the heavy lifting over so many years. Giddey's defence is ordinary, he's ball dominant and turnover prone. Giddey's game is good for Josh Giddey.
Goorjian will now quit. Challenge for the incoming coach is to integrate Josh's talents in to a team game.
No easy feat.

Reply #924581 | Report this post


Jacket  
Last year

Slovenia made there 3s at a higher rate than the Boomers.
Thats all that matters in modern basketball.
Make your 3s, win the game, dont make them, lose the game.
Thats all basketball has become.
FIBA/NBA need to move the line back so much that it is a not a good shot anymore.
The game has become way to monotonous.

Reply #924582 | Report this post


Rusty  
Last year

Our team lacks a prima donna. It used to be Patty, we leaned on him for everything but since Giddey, Exum and a bunch of other fringe NBA players emerged we were misled into thinking that players who play for NBA clubs must be NBA quality.

The reality is only Giddey, Patty and possibly Landale are bona fide NBA players. Green maybe but was under utilised. Exum still makes terrible decisions and dumb plays. His two signature plays are driving under the basket and throwing up a junk shot, and winding down the shot clock with four seconds to go then throwing a generic pass. He cannot let go of the fact that he isn't a point guard at elite level.

In future the team needs to be built around Giddey, as the prima Donna, and everyone else just playing the supporting cast. In 3-4 years names like Thybulle, Cooks, White, Daniels, Ingles won't be associated with the NBA, so we can't be fooled into giving them responsibly they don't deserve.

Reply #924584 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Coaches love the plus, minus stats and we throwing out Kay who always one of the best, yes he's 32 but Inglis is 36, let the season go and see where players land. How useful would a big body like Humphries been in the key, Hunter as well, the season will tell us, very hard to win without these sort players in fiba.

Reply #924586 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

It would be rash to get rid of Goorjian now. You gotta give him the Olympics. He'll have something to prove. Maybe this was the reality check everyone needed.

Reply #924588 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Goorjian is the coach who guided us to Bronze.
Lemanis is the coach who guided us to bronze, Goorjian just happened to be in the seat at the time.

Reply #924589 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

When comparing Lemanis and Goorjian....

Problem is the Lemanis offense relied on high IQ bigs who set good screens, make smart reads, cuts and passes. That's a big part of what allowed the cutting and ball movement to be so effective.

Bogut, Andersen, Baynes, Landale are streets ahead of Reath, Cooks, White in this regard. Streets ahead. And Kay wasn't at his best here.

Offense must match your personnel when you're at this pro level.

Reply #924592 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Geez what a waste of Olympics if we went the same again and just added Landale and maybe Simmons.

Coaches need to be cut
Multi players need to be cut
Alot of guys need a giant Australian boot up the bum for not putting in 100%
Too much hero ball, no ball movement, D sub par and rebounding atrocious.

BA won't change a thing though..

Reply #924594 | Report this post


Bol  
Last year

Surely Baynes isn't so far from his best to not have been a valuable contributor in this team? Especially since 2 guys on the bench were not used the whole tournament.

I'm staggered Goulding didn't get some minutes with them struggling for outside potency

Reply #924596 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Australia has a personnel issue with balance. It's obvious.

On paper we have more talent and depth overall than ever.

But in reality we had better balance and depth and a better top 7 or 8 rotation previously. We had more bases covered in international basketball with bigs who protected the rim, patrolled the paint and enabled Patty's best by setting better screens.

Who cares if we took Dave Barlow previously.

No point having NBA players if they're warming the bench (Daniels, White). Basketball has 5 players on court and we missed Landale in this tournament. Hawkinson and Tobey would've found life much harder if he was there.

Reply #924597 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Oh my the over reaction, luckily some around here don't have a say, including myself, not to confuse me with @ me.

Reply #924598 | Report this post


What is clear is that there needs to be a new HC.
The result is important, but the process is also important. We were defeated not only by the outcome but also by the process.
The team offense was poor. Then, shouldn't we at least be good at team defense?
Isn’t that how we can find direction as we envision the future? As a result, if nothing changes, next year's Olympics will be the same.

Reply #924599 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Finishing 9-16 when you are ranked 3 in the world is a fail. Plain and simple...

Reply #924600 | Report this post


Patty was our best player, but he should be the sixth man at next year's Olympics.
He has one year left until the Olympics. We hope that our young players grow quickly.

Reply #924602 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Cotton would have been more useful than Thybulle, hopefully his citizenship comes through.

Reply #924603 | Report this post


Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything more that Kay can do for our team.
It became difficult not only for the player's individual skills but also for the team.

He can't play outside defense. Post defense also had difficulties. He defended and boxed out hard, but his size and athleticism gave him little effect as a small-ball 5.
He has a good basketball IQ, but we don't have enough shooters and shot makers on our team.
And internationally he has already been analyzed a lot.
His inability to score in the post, the defensive issues mentioned above, and his 3-point shooting ability have also dropped significantly.

He is 32 years old and playing in the Asian League. The Japanese league he is playing in is less competitive than China and Korea.

Reply #924608 | Report this post


Before the competition started, no one would have thought that Latvia and Brazil would achieve this level of success.
But their team character is clear. It wasn't ambiguous. Whether it's offense or defense, we've definitely prepared for either one. Team organization is also excellent. They were successful not only in the outcome but also in the process. I would have applauded if the Boomers had lost in a really good way.

Reply #924609 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"Goorjian is the coach who guided us to Bronze. Calls to sack him after one bad game feels like calls to sack Lemanis after the Rio smashing by Serbia. We can look for a new coach after Paris."


Sorry, I disagree with this. it's not "one bad game". We had a bad preparation. We had bad quarters against Finland. We had some bad and stupid coaching mistakes against Germany. Japan sucked. We had a fucking WOEFUL game against Slovenia.

Honestly I don't think we can trust him with another campaign. As for "guiding us to bronze", no, a lot of what they were doing in Tokyo there were already doing under Lemanis. The players actually ran the offense. Goorjian even said he diidn't have to do much, and he didn't.

The way I see it, is Goorjian made some questionable decisions in this thing and for that he should fall on his sowrd - these decisions are as follows:


1) starting a FIBA rookie pg and running EVERYTHING through him
- the reason why he was a FIBA rookie is he was cut for a useless Sobey
2) Bringing that "much needed shooter" in Goulding, and then not even playing him, neither benefitting from his alleged shooting, nor benefitting for potential height or upside he could have been replaced with
3) having literally NO answer for Kay on an island against Schroder... how many times did he get burned? Why did he let it persist (smacks of shades of the 10-0 USA run that killed us in 2021)
4) Sends all of his big men home (frolling, Pinder, Maker) despite knowing Jock was under an injury cloud - electing to bring none of them back when he fell down
5) Having Caporn run his offenses
6) having Neilsen run his substitutions (are you a head coach Goorj or not? maybe the reason the team looks so disjointed is too many cooks?)
7) Not calling time outs nearly enough
8) Sending Jack White to the end of the rotation despite Kay underperforming and a clear and obviouys need for Jack's physicality
9) Post-game interviews basically blaming the refs for losses and playing the victim for scrutiny despite all the errors that were easily foreseeable
10) arrogantly not tinkering with a starting line up that CLEARLY was not working

And then let's move onto the team, shall we?

Gold vibes only. I love the positivity and the belief, but that belief and expectation hampered them. They came in as a "favourite", and as such they seemed to think rebounds and loose balls would be handed to them. They didn't fight the way Latvia fights. And they never had the awe inspiring talent to overcome that by just being "too good". Long term, this may be the kick in the ass this program needs.

But I DO NOT think you can risk another tournament to Goorjian. I think he's cooked. And I think the echoe of Lemanis in the leadership group is what allowed for Goorjian to look anything but cooked in Tokyo. Let's face it, once a major tournament, Goorjian makes some calls and some brain farts that are costly -

2006 v Greece - Barlow handling the ball up court
2021 v America - 10=0 run, No time out
2023 v Germany, the Kay murder.
2023 v Slovenia - you could argue not challenging the Doncic charge on Patty

These are just the ones I remmeber off the top of my head.

I rate Lemanis way above Goorjian - he performed better against better opposition - in 2021 we were lucky not to face a France or Spain - in 2019 we played both.

Anyway, thanks for the Rose Gold. I'll always remember that team and what it did. This current team will always be an afterthought. But moving forward, if we want to talk about any kind of rebuild there are some hard questions we need to ask.

Who is our next Boomers coach? I really think Trevor Gleeson's appraisals and calls have been spot on and I think he deserves a look.

A Scott Roth who maybe will get in his teams ass if they play the way our Boomers have played lately?

Someone from outside the Australian basketball fraternity?

Either way... this aint baby out with the bath water... the baby's dead right here. Let's call it for what it was, this was an ABYSMAL world cup.

"PARIS SQUAD
6'0 88 Mills SG
6'6 95 Exum PG + SF + SG
6'6 00 Green SF + SG
6’7 97 White PF + SF
6’8 02 Giddey PG
6’8 95 Cooks PF + C
6’10 96 Simmons PF + PG + C
6’11 96 Reath C + PF
6’11 95 Landale C
+1 SG/PG
+1 SF/SG
+1 any position

In the mix
6’0 92 Cotton* SG
6’2 97 Vasiljevic SG
6’5 98 Mcdowell-White PG
6’5 04 Proctor PG + SG
6’5 97 Thybulle* SF
6’6 02 Galloway SF + SG
6’7 03 Daniels SG + PG + SF
6’9 95 Pinder C + PF
7’0 97 Maker C + PF

No for me
6’4 88 Goulding SG
6’8 87 Ingles SF + PG
6’9 92 Kay PF + C"


Okay for me, thanks Thybulle - it's been real. Dyson Daniels takes that spot for me moving forward.

I think ingles is cooked. I am not sure what he even does anymore?

Might want to add Furphy to that line up as well.

I think you have to look seriously at Zikarsky. Yeah he's young, but 7 feet and mobile is 7 feet and mobile, and really what else are we doing with the 12th spot?

Proctor firmly in the frame for me. I wont count out Delly either. There were times when a sounder head was needed than Giddey.

Moving forward we look like we're going to continue to have shooting and big man problems. IF Simmons turns up, that helps in the big man department but we clearly need shooters and may have to be willing to forgo talent in other areas to get them.

Is it time to call on DJ Vaselivic? We talk about size but we had all the size in the world at guard and it meant nothing, and plenty of small guards doing their thing in FIBA basketball.

Anyway, a lot of questions moving forward. But there is no "baby out with the bath water" and there is no silver lining. There was nothing vaguely redeemable about this tourbnament. yes, we lost Landale but its about the way we played. It was quite frankly, embarrassing.

This program has some soul searching to do.

"Feel like Australia could have really used a Bryce Cotton tn with how much they sucked on offence."

I think you have to consider it now. I also hear Tyler Harvey is naturalizing.

Reply #924610 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"It would be rash to get rid of Goorjian now. You gotta give him the Olympics. He'll have something to prove. Maybe this was the reality check everyone needed."

Lol fuck that noise. We dropped Lemanis for getting us to fourth. When someone proves theyre not up to the job, you dont go on and then give them an even bigger job.

The whole process was fucked this time - player selections, rotations, plays, O, D, the warm up schedule, every last piece of it. You're bringing the mastermind back again.

Sorry.... Lemanis won that bronze, it was from the culture HE helped created and offense and defenses HE instilled. Even Goorjian admits he had a passive role with the team.

It's done, Goorj has got to go,.

Reply #924611 | Report this post


Next year, Cotton will be 32 years old and Harvey will be 31 years old. They are both too old. If I can't play next year, it's virtually over.

Reply #924612 | Report this post


The whole process was fucked this time - player selections, rotations, plays, O, D, the warm up schedule, every last piece of it.

This is it!! This is what I have been saying over and over again!!

Reply #924613 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

It's been a very disappointing tournament, but this board’s hostility towards Goorjian is ridiculously unfair. Lol at weirdos saying it was actually Lemanis that won bronze in Tokyo. Pathetic nonsense.

Reply #924614 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

2023 v Slovenia - you could argue not challenging the Doncic charge on Patty
You. Cannot. Challenge. Foul. Calls. Under. FIBA. Rules.

Reply #924615 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"It's been a very disappointing tournament, but this board's hostility towards Goorjian is ridiculously unfair. Lol at weirdos saying it was actually Lemanis that won bronze in Tokyo. Pathetic nonsense."


You can listen to Goorj himself talk about how little he actually had to do with the running of the team. And even if we were to grant Goorjian that bronze, tbis tournament was woeful and it all falls back on the decisions he made.

Reply #924616 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

People will defend Goorjian but I see this very simply - Goorjian made some controversial calls when making the team, left out big men, didnt take them even to the warm up games, left out Delly, took Goulding and never used him despite the apparent "need" for him, couldn't adjust in-game to situations, the list goes on and on. And for that, he should fall on his sword. This is not the best result we could have got with our talent pool, and even considering Jocks absense, and as such, we should seek to do better.

I also think this tests the whole Boomers culture, just how poorly they played, and bowing out like this. It's easy to have a strong culture when you're constantly a contender - a bit harder when you're finishing 9th-16th.

I think we should take our lumps with this final game, run our bench, let Daniels experience FIBA competition. Dont be surprised if some of our vets actually retire from international basketball prematurely after that - that's how bad it was.

I truly think this was the worst Boomers team I've seen in any major tournament in the 23 years I've followed.

Reply #924617 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

I can't help but think about all the waste:
- Ingles: A world class shooter who turns up as such in tournaments half the time; an excellent PnR guy who doesn't do pick and rolls.
- Goulding: chosen to surround Giddey with shooters, but apparently not needed with Giddey's one-option iso drives?
- Kay: A system that can utilise his high IQ
- Exum: now a veteran with Euro experience, but given an awkward role off the bench.
- Giddey: could've given him a chance to ease into international ball, increasingly taking more responsibilities as his performances might justify, instead of making him try to take over with NBA iso moves. No chance to make him work for his role. He was allowed to compromise the defensive identity of the team.
- Simmons: nah, just kidding.
- Alternative reality theoretical Simmons: Simmons high post ala Bogut in a Lemanis system
- Weak defenders exploited: Giddey, Kay routinely exploited throughout the tournament
- Landale: massive, massive loss on this team. But still unlikely to make it a final 4 team.
- Green: looking more and more a Boomers starter, but had little time to get used to it.
- Mills: came back from ice cold practice games to go nearly 50-40-90 in 4 games: a gift wasted.
- Thybulle: one of the best defenders in the world, but hardly noticeable among the lack of defensive cohesion in tournament play.
- Lemanis/BA: As the echos of the Lemanis era fade away, maybe now we can appreciate it more. Hopefully BA will understand the importance of chemistry and a system.

Reply #924618 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

First, I had been calling for Ingles to be thrown out of the rotation early in the tournament. As it was clear the dude was cooked. His constant moaning to the refs all tournament often for no reason was tiresome too.

Secondly, unsure why people expected this to be a good shooting team. Feel the shooting ability of other teams especially European was greatly underestimated. Giddey, Matisse, Exum and Green are all no better than average/OK shooters. In current form, Mills was the only legit shooter in the rotation

Reply #924619 | Report this post


Cake  
Last year

There are some good points above but I don't think selection complaints are among them. It's not like we were forced to play smaller than we wanted to because Reath or Kay had foul trouble. We often played smaller than we needed to by keeping Reath on the bench. It's pretty clear that none of the bigs who missed the cut would have seen the court. If we'd taken Maker over Goulding and barely played him or he sucked, it would have been hang wringing over the pointlessness of a big body that can't play instead of the knock-down shooter we desperately needed to punish Slovenia's collapsing D. You pick the team you think is most capable of getting the job done, and usually you have pretty good reasons as a coach for those picks, even if outsiders don't fully understand your rationale.

There were some specific things against Slovenia that I thought brought us undone. One was our complete lethargy behind the point of the screen. The on-ball defence was sound but that was the extent of the plan. We got absolutely shredded once the ball came out of the trap. I've never understood how guys with Giddey's basketball IQ can be such poor off-ball defenders, but he wasn't the only one guilty of spectating.

The second was the catch and hold indecisiveness at the offensive end. Giddey, Ingles and Exum were all terrible with this, and for the latter two it has been a problem in previous tournaments as well.

Finally, I thought Cooks' minutes were an over-reaction to one very good game. He compounded the offensive stagnancy because Slovenia didn't bother guarding him at all. White was great against Finland and Germany, and Goorj clearly felt he and Cooks were an either/or proposition, with Reath and Kay playing all the minutes at the 5. So I understood benching White v. Japan. But Cooks was terrible v. Slovenia and it would have been worth looking at the interchangeable piece. If you weren't prepared to try White there, at least adjust Cooks' minutes down in line with his effectiveness, as they were appropriately adjusted up v. Japan.

Reply #924620 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Agree on the point re frontcourt minutes, once it became clear Slovenia were packing the paint there needed to be a focus on using our frontcourt shooters to spread the floor, and that meant less Cooks in this particular game (or minutes with White, that combo looked good in practice games).

The challenge around that for Goorjian was when Xavier came in during the first quarter he provided a big defensive lift after the team had been cut up early. There are always reasons coaches make decisions, and they think through them more than we do, but at some point Reath and White had to be given the chance to spread the floor and make Slovenia adjust.

Reply #924623 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

I was going to write something of length but @me took most of the words out of my mouth. Good points.

This was a doozy. We were third favourites in this tournament and considerable favourites for both the Germany and Slovenia games. We had a window of time where almost pall of lit best could play and when the veterans and younger players between the two eras were all at good ages to play together. The only solace I take is that that Germany game was not our only undoing that led us on a path to demise. We were just not up to it. We never looked convincing in any of our games for more than a qtr.

We were stacked but the pieces didn't go together or at least weren’t utilised well together. This team lacked urgency, cohesion and did not play with the confidence you would expect from a team boasting the second most NBA players. It’s another reminder that

I won’t knock the individual players as I also think some were not given the right roles or plays to thrive.

Moving forward, I hope this team isn’t discouraged and we don’t have players opting out. They are basically using up their holidays and playing pro bono only for the disappointing results there has been. I know there is a good culture amongst the boomers so I’m sure they will get back together once the dust settles.

I think we have a good core moving forward. Some adjustments need to be made. I think Green can be an X factor and can be a starter. Would love to see him utilised like the Mavs did in their stretch last season when they were down a few players. Landale will be a welcome return. Exum, Reath and White were solid. I think with some adjustments we could get our 3pt shooting up. We do have high % NBA 3pt shooters in the team that have been under-utilised. I felt like I never got to see enough of Exum, Reath and White in the campaign. Giddey will learn a lot about the international system from this campaign and he’s a special talent so I know he will.




Reply #924624 | Report this post


Pablo Escobar  
Last year

The culture baton with Ingles and Mills coming to an end, has to go to White and Green. Do not give it to Giddey, he has to be kept in check and buy in defensively.
Ben Simmons playing point IS the answer. He's a distributor and great defender. Giddey to contribute fully has to develop a perimeter shot. And before the naysayers chirp in with 'Simmons can't shoot either', his shooting action is better than Giddeys. With confidence at international level he could get it going.
The fact Goorj said in the warm-up games that Goulding was in their top 8, and then didn't play him, says they were not sure who to play or somebody in the coaching brains trust curtailed that idea. Not necessarily Goorj. Ingles was not his normal self, their was definitely some locker room bullshit going on. Reath deserved more time, and was harshly done by.
The assistants ran this show, they need to be looked at as much as Goorj himself. Goorj looks a little detached and tired. His time has come to an end. Would've helped to have a Bogut and Baynes no doubt.

Reply #924625 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I feel likk this tournament was cursed from the beginning. I gave them the benefit of the doubt during warm ups but when you look at the body of work this Boomers team laid out, it is quite poor by any reasonable metric. Landale being out did not help but I am not sure this team playing this way would have made the quarterfinals with him anyay. Moving forward it's clear to me that our athleticism on the wings is nearly inconsequential and that we need shooters and rim protection. This may mean fast trackng some kids or taking guys you might not usuaaly take but ACTUALLY PLAYING THEM.

Looking to Paris:

Goorjian gone
Consider paying Ben Simmons to play
Delly and Baynes should be back up for consideration---- I know we're looking to the future but clearly there's a hole inside and questions around grit ----
Zikarsky should be a lock as 12th man
Proctor heavily considered
Kay gone
Ingles 50/50 but if a better shooter is found, gone
Mattise to lose spot to Daniels, Cotton or Tyler Harvey
DJ Vaselijivic given real consideration
Furphy considered
Less talk of gold medals more hustle, grit and embracing newfound underdog status

Reply #924626 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

So many points I agree with in here.

I wouldn't say this is the worst Boomers team in the last x years, because there was so much potential for greatness. My biggest hurt is that we went from a successful system to what seemed a vacuum. We had a culture and a way of playing, strong personalities who helped enforce it, and it seemed to allow everyone a chance to contribute within it. This campaign, we seemed to have a vacuum, more like a 'work it out as you go along’, kind of thing, with nobody out there telling the others what to do apart from poor old Patty.

I agree with most comments about Goorjian not being up to it. Giving responsibility to assistants is quite common, so I don’t see that as an automatic negative. What I was often frustrated by was his body language on the sideline and what he said in his time-outs. What he said may have been right, but it often wasn’t what they needed to hear!! The only time-out which I applauded was when he gave Giddey the spray, but then he didn’t enforce it by benching Giddey as soon as he started going back to his old habits.

As for his press conferences, good grief. Delusional, glass half-full, ref’s fault, you don’t shit in your own nest, ... whatever. They were often embarrassing.

I hope he leaves before he gets pushed.

Reply #924627 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

Even from the selection camp and through the warm up games it was very evident that the team lacked shooting, was unbalanced with way too many similar parts, so nothing surprising about the outcome. It was really good to see how Slovenia countered a double coverage on Doncic with a screen the screener action - they most of the time had a man open. On the other side, the Boomers had nothing offensively in addition to Giddey's and Patty's iso plays - there were glimpses what Giddey can do but he has almost no room to operate in the FIBA rules unless we pushed the ball in transition. I'm not convinced that Goorj should go, I do believe that Caporn and Patrick should not be part of that couching team, Matty should get more responsibility and even if Goorj is let go he should be offered the job.

Reply #924628 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"I wouldn't say this is the worst Boomers team in the last x years, because there was so much potential for greatness."

No, there the worst team we've had in at least 23 years because they had the potential. At least the 2006 team weren't outhustled and outexecuted. we just turned up, played social league ball and expected to win.

"As for his press conferences, good grief. Delusional, glass half-full, ref's fault, you don’t shit in your own nest, ... whatever. They were often embarrassing."

Both him and Joe Ingles played that card after the Germany loss... and it really just spoke to an entitlement coming from the team. Sorry guys, a few calls didn't lose you the game. YOU lost you the game. This isn't the Spain 2016 game...

"e had a culture and a way of playing, strong personalities who helped enforce it, and it seemed to allow everyone a chance to contribute within it. This campaign, we seemed to have a vacuum, more like a 'work it out as you go along’, kind of thing, with nobody out there telling the others what to do apart from poor old Patty."


I worry about the culture now as well. Cant help but think there was a disunity in the playing group. Maybe people not loving the fact Giddey just watlzed in as the new top dog? There was a clear lack of leadership with this team.

It might be time to reinsert some of those culture guys - the Dellys, Baynesys etc.

Reply #924630 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

20 man camp with train ons?

Giddey / Exum / Mcdowell-White / Proctor / ArmstrongTO
Mills / Cotton* / Harvey* / Vasiljevic / FennellTO
Green / Daniels / Thybulle* / Galloway / FurphyTO
Simmons / Cooks / White / Pinder / OlbrichTO
Landale / Reath / Maker / Zikarsky / WessellsTO

Reply #924631 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Yeah no way we can ever take all 3 of Matisse, Daniels and Green to an international tournament in future. Like buying 3 pairs of the same socks. DJV should have been in contention

Reply #924632 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

And the first who make 100 3s after the practice make the team?

Reply #924633 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

It's first and foremost a personnel issue IMO.
We're a roster in transition mode, and lacking shooting. I don't think any available selection changes would have drastically changed the way that things panned out for us this tournament either.

We desperately need players who can shoot the ball but our stocks in that department are pretty grim right now unless we sacrifice size so I'm not optimistic about Paris.

Reply #924635 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

Well we have guys who are meant to be able to shoot but rhey just..... arent?

And yeah I am not all that optimistic about Paris either. Just hoping some shooters emerge, Ben pulls his finger out and the bigs we do have stay health, we look at Baynes agan or Zikarsky improves exponentially

Reply #924639 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

The Boomers have clearly picked their strongest squad despite maybe a couple of selections coming down to personal opinion, but not right or wrong at all. We don't have these Euro level role players we can pick ahead of our most talented players. I can't think of any NBL player where there would be justification in picking ahead of our NBA based players purely for balance reasons. This was clearly our best team, but failed to play to our strengths.

I wonder if Vasiljevic could have been more useful than Goulding if there was a willingness to use him. If names like Galloway are being thrown around, then what about Rhys Vague as a high IQ sniper at FIBA level? Crazy I know, but could offer a POD if everyone agrees balance is an issue.

The concern is always that Australia are capable of capitulation against crafty European execution, and they just haven't looked good all tournament.

Never one to overreact and demand coaching changes but feel like it is time for change. Gleeson in prime position to take over?

Reply #924640 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

Do we not have shooters? Mills is the poster boy of a shooter. We have two other players in the top 50 3pt % last year. These players should have plays designed for them where they are putting up to 10 3pt attempts a game.

Reply #924641 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I dont think it's that we dont have shooters, it's that we just seemed to find no way of getting them open. And then when they did get it open it was all rushed. The team had no offense whatsoever looms as an even bigger issue. Every game looked like a bad social team's first game together.

Reply #924642 | Report this post


So I talked. We need something like EuroBasket.
What advantage do we get from the Asia Cup and Asian regional qualifiers? Qualification for the World Cup becomes easier.
But in the long run, this doesn't have a good effect. Experience in a less competitive place is not very important. In fact, among the players who participated in the World Cup regional qualifiers and the Asia Cup, Kay was the only one to make it to the best team.
In the past, there was an Oceania Championship, so even though it was less competitive, it had the effect of bringing first-team players together to build organizational strength.
But now, the only way for our best team to come together is through the World Cup and the Olympics. In Europe, the best players participate in the World Cup regional qualifiers, even if only on a small number of occasions, and the best players gather at EuroBasket.
We have a short camp period and a small number of practice games.

Reply #924643 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

We had good shooters, proven world class shooters.
Mills, Goulding, Ingles (lead NBA in 3pt% for a while)
Patty wasnt used properly to get the looks he needs, andwas in a bit of a slump.
Goulding......
wasn't used despite apparently being needed by the coach.
Ingles for some reason known possibly only to him, didn't shoot!

White, Kay, Green *can* all shoot, Reath too.
When you have an offense that actually has some cohesion, those guys can knock it dow.

To me, it's predominantly a coaching issue that's at tge core of thus under performing campaign, because even to international observers, we had the talent. It just wasn't used to best effect.

And again, the whole, "gold vibes only" "our aim is to win a gold meadal" ....
Yep, ok its kind of everyone's ultimate goal ya know, but FFS, don't get ahead of yourselves.
Basketball games are won by a team, playing as a team, *especially* international basketball games.


I don't know any names, but BA mightwant to seriously consider looking for a good European coach who can instill some balance, order and, I dunno, maybe a game plan, because it's clear that we were out-coached, and it would've only continued to be evident had the tournament gone on for longer

Reply #924644 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Whether BA likes to admit it or not, we're in rebuild or transition mode, which needs a different kind of coach and approach. Not a Goorjian.


As for our shooting woes ... the CoE and NBA value athleticism, drives and dunks over pure shooting ability, so why are we surprised when we don’t have a number of pure reliable shooters to choose from? Outstanding snipers like Fredette didn’t last long in the NBA, because they were found out in other areas.

It seems we have either the genius kind (Goulding, Vasiljevic) or the kind that got there through sheer hard work (Green, Ingles, Exum, etc).

Hopefully some of the up and coming youngsters can bring in reliable outside shooting (Weedy can supply the names no doubt).

Reply #924645 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

I'm enjoying and appreciate the contributions from ME, Hoopie, Pablo, and others.

Some great basketball minds on here.

Reply #924646 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Reath's outside shooting impressed me. I’m another who cannot understand why there were no plays to set him up for them - even simple pick n pop stuff like what was done to us enough times.

Reply #924647 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

A lot of whatifs but with Brazil beating Canada we might not have even had a bad pathway come second in the pool.

This will go down as one of the great what could have beens.

IMO Paris is more important. I know some say FIBA is better and some say Olympics. But I think Olympics has the most clout. It has the most eyes. It is the most known. It's one where the best if the best rock up. Hopefully this was the campaign that gave us the wake up call for Paris.

Reply #924648 | Report this post


I think the reason Reath doesn't get much playing time is because his transition speed is slow.
And in the practice game, Reath was shown to be a pretty good pick-and-roll player, but in the actual game, he was slow and lacked strength, which made him lose the physical fight. Reath was unable to get to the rim at the perfect time. As a result, he often used screens and went to the outside.
So wouldn't it have been better to use pick and pop more? I don't know why, but the coaching staff didn't seem to like it that much.
Even so, I thought he should have played longer than Ingles and Kay.

Reply #924649 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

The whole tournament I saw nothing that resembled a play. It looked like those tapes of 1950s NBA where everyone is just running around doing whatever they feel like. The only thing that seemed to work with vague consistency was Iso Patty, Giddey driving deep into the key. That's it. That was entirety of our offence. Hey, that's fine if youre defense is so good that you're always running fast breaks but lets be serious, it wasn't. We had great defenders and yet, poor defense.

I think Goorjian is going to try to hold onto the bronze medal as the reason he should stay but the long and short of it is NOTHING he tried worked in this tournament. Literally nothing. The game last night against Slovenia is among the worst Boomers matches I've ever seen.

So we're at a point now where the question has to be asked, how much continuation do we need? Do we completely scrap our coaching staff including assistants and risk losing some of the knowledge we've gained over this period, or do we go a completely new direction with a coach which may not know the landscape and personnel as well? Well, first cab off the ranks, Goorjian should leave. Whether you want to keep Neilsen and Caporn is another question. Can we go back to the future with Lemanis or ahs that ship sailed? Brett Brown?

It's starting to feel like Rose Gold was our moment in the sun, and that we may just fade back into being a middling basketball nation now. I want to be wrong but there are some issues ehre, and some of them are personnel

Reply #924650 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Last year

Everyone gets so caught up in the fact we have NBA players. In the end it means nothing if they can't play as a team. Other teams, like Slovenia etc show you do not need NBA players to win. NBA contracts are fools gold in FIBa

Reply #924651 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"A lot of whatifs but with Brazil beating Canada we might not have even had a bad pathway come second in the pool.

This will go down as one of the great what could have beens."

We werent going to beat Spain or Latvia either playing like that.

For me, the saving grace is we deserved what we got. This isn't like when medals were stolen from us with terrible calls. We played terribly and as such, our result in the world cup will reflect that. Can't say I am heart broken. Dissapointed is more the feeling. I am not even confident the Boomers we saw in this tournament would beat a playoff NBL team to be quite honest. But this is the thing, this is international basketball. A lot of countries come and go and then grab a medal and then disappear into obscurity for a few years then flare up again. Take a look at Argentina, the 2019 silver medallists who didnt even qualify for the world cup and will likely miss the Olympics. Look at France. After a very solid decade, that is where we are. And it;'s hard to know how soon we can get back on top.

Reply #924652 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Nailed it, Sebastian!

Reply #924653 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

On the subject of 'what-if's’ ...

We needed to get Doncic off the court to have the best chance of winning, so that we didn’t need to keep doubling him and taking risks.

Our quickest and smartest attacker is Patty.

Wouldn’t it have been easy to isolate Patty with Doncic defending him, and have Patty draw fouls on Doncic through his agility? Patty drew one foul on Doncic in this way, so why not more? Or at least get into Doncic’s head and make him nervous?

Reply #924654 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

We didn't do much better when Doncic was off the floor anyway. When we had opportunities in any of our games we found it hard to capitalise.

@me is on the money. Our offence stunk. We were so free flowing at the Olympics. Just watch the tape- various plays, cuts, screens. It was a thing of beauty at times. I didn’t really see any of that in this campaign.

Reply #924655 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"We needed to get Doncic off the court to have the best chance of winning, so that we didn't need to keep doubling him and taking risks.
"

We did that and Slovenia maintained the same lead the whole time. Sad fact is the Boomers just weren't a good basketball team this year. I feel like I am going to really miss that Boomers core 2012-2021.

Reply #924657 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

When I think about what I personally think was our best Boomers team for me it's hard to go past the 2019 team. We may have got a better technical result in 2021 but I think the 2019 team was our best.

Reply #924659 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

Agree with a solid team beats a group of NBA players. But one thing about NBA players is that they go into these tournaments with a lot of confidence. Confidence that is needed when the bright lights and pressure is turned up. I've seen a number of NBL players have 'deer in the headlights’ moments throughout the years. Something was impeding that confidence this campaign as many looked lost. Hard to maintain it when you don’t know what your role is.

Reply #924660 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"We were so free flowing at the Olympics. Just watch the tape- various plays, cuts, screens. It was a thing of beauty at times. I didn't really see any of that in this campaign."

Well that's precisely right. And we missed Jock but surely Jock isn't the reason there's such a night and day difference. This is where there has to be some blame placed on Giddey. The ball stuck in his hands way too much. Yes, he's a lock moving forward. Yes, he got stats. But I think his over-use was a big disruption to the flow of the team and any continuation of what they were doing before. It was like watching the LaMelo Ball/Hawks situation play out except on your national team.

Reply #924661 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

Boomers playbook this year:

-Patty dribble down to baseline and tip toe along behind the basket to kick out to an already set defence
-Giddey iso drive on two to three players in the key
- Pass around 3pt line to contested Thybulle 3pt from the corner
- Patty drive into key and pass into traffic

I've probably missed a few.

Reply #924662 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

" This is where there has to be some blame placed on Giddey. The ball stuck in his hands way too much. Yes, he's a lock moving forward. Yes, he got stats. But I think his over-use was a big disruption to the flow of the team and any continuation of what they were doing before."

Yes, I posted a write up on Giddey on OKC and the plus minus he has with certain players on the floor. I think that translates here. He is ball dominant and tends to allow defence to set. Particularly when he over dribbles. He is arguably our most talented player but our team looks so different when he is running the show. I think this is excacerbated by the differences in FIBA to NBA.

Reply #924663 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

"We had good shooters, proven world class shooters.
Mills, Goulding, Ingles (lead NBA in 3pt% for a while)"

We don't have scoring and sniper shooters like euro teams do. Mills, Goulding, Ingles I agree are our 3 - Mills was too cold, Ingles was completely frozen and Goulding didn’t see minutes (dumb).

I was super critical of the team balance and style having followed a lot of international basketball and went to the three RLA games etc.

People here called that hysteria etc but the reality is they were observations of clear issues which came to fruition when it mattered.

I have hope for Paris. I think if we are lucky and have everyone nominate and healthy, Simmons and Landale change the complexion of our team and the style they can take to Paris. A lot of those “36ers vibes” that people laughed at me referencing can be resolved.

By that I mean the consequence of not having defensive bigs forcing us have to run all over the place to cover up holes, which makes it easier for them to score and rebound to make us run all over the place again. This also makes the consequence of not being able to play transition game when that’s what the team is designed for which means they need to find a way to avoid getting stifled in offence. That means you need shooters to stretch that defence out and make space and when they’re not knocking down shots, you’re stuffed because it leads to forcing it and getting turnovers.

I think they need to learn to accept a reliance on Goulding or Vasiljevic to have those threats on the court. We probably need Thybulle less because we have Green, we have Exum. We have Giddey who is more a 3 than a 1

Reply #924664 | Report this post


Simple.
Offense and defense were the worst.
Did our offense do well when Doncic was on the bench? no.
Was our defense good when Doncic was on the bench? no.

Before you criticize the players, didn't you sense there was a problem with our system?

If I can't play offense, I have to be good at defense, and if I can't play defense, I have to be good at offense, but I wasn't good at anything.
Team offense and team defense are entirely up to the coaching staff. Players have no choice but to follow it. If you make a shot or not, it's after that.

I didn't want Giddey, Patty, and Kay to play together. Not only is there no synergy in attack, but the defensive rotation is also poor.

Ranking of minutes played against Slovenia
1. Patty
2. Giddey
3. Ingles
4. Kay
Damn it, team defense doesn't even work because of this.

Reply #924665 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I can see how more big men would help but I don't think we can rely on the idea of Simmons making it through. I think we need to look at in no particular order:

Landale (obviously)
Baynes.... yes he's a has been but he;s not about to stop being a big brick
Zikarsky 12th man
Reath/Maker

Reply #924666 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I can see how more big men would help but I don't think we can rely on the idea of Simmons making it through. I think we need to look at in no particular order:

Landale (obviously)
Baynes.... yes he's a has been but he;s not about to stop being a big brick
Zikarsky 12th man
Reath/Maker

Reply #924667 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I understand the scepticism obviously. I do think he will play (if healthy...lol).

Let's say he doesn’t - that’s where the Humphries chatter is interesting. Who knows if he is even remotely considered, but let’s say he’s in year 2 of being healthy and getting fit. A player can improve a lot in year 2 and look like a different player (like Simmons claims to be in the process of now).

It’s not impossible that he gets back to his MVP type form. In which case, if he strings the back half of the season in that kind of form, the idea of having him as a backup C is intriguing!

I’d rather that than Maker, who, like Reath, is largely ineffective when taking on euros outside of perimeter offence.

Obviously as a 36ers fan, if he gets into that kind of form it’s beneficial from an NBL perspective. So I’ll be hoping he gets back to that type of form and string it for a good half a season for both 36ers and Boomers option sake.

Reply #924668 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

Well one of the things this tournament proved is you cant just gloss over the subject of a big man and be like "she'll be right, mate, we have big guards". Humphries is certainly the prototype of a player who could be helpful. And if you're in the situation where you're looking for bench depth at the big man department I'd rather go a somewhat unremarkable yet very much physically capable Humphries than trying to Frankenstein a centre out of Kay and Cooks. Slovenia are going much deeper than us in this tournament and their back up centre wouldn't be any better than Humphries.

Reply #924669 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

The issues highlighted with Giddey are a coaching problem.

It's literally the coaches job to say 'hey move the ball' and teach him how to play the FIBA way. You can't really blame Giddey for playing a more NBA-oriented style when that's what has been doing for the past 2 years.

The purpose of the training camp and the warm up games was for the coaches to help him transition into being a FIBA point guard.

And if he can't learn, then you change the lineups to help the team rather than yielding to reputation and not adjusting (like Goorjiaj did).

A few games ago I was saying never in a thousand years should we replace Goorjian, but now I'm not so sure.

Reply #924670 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

In the past, we set up Simmons to be the guy who'd lead us to the promised land. All sorts of mental and physical issues later, he again says how keen he is to play ... if he feels ok.

I don’t think he will play in Paris.

How much pressure do you think he will be under to get us out of the hole we’ve dug in this WC? I think it will be too much for him.

And how hard will BA bow down before him to make it happen?

Another year of uncertainty and "will he or won’t he?".

Sigh.

Reply #924671 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

Yes but we don't want to overreact to the 'bigs’ issue of this campaign as I think this was more notable due to the other aforementioned issues.

Love the idea of Rocco. He’ll be seasoned by another year in a professional league albeit still VERY young I think it’s also important for our ‘rebuild’ as the vets hand over the team to the next generation.

My non negotiables would be to have:

- Landale
- Giddey
- Green
- Mills
- Exum

I would like to see Reath, White and Cooks in the squad too. Rocco at 12th.

I think there is great value in the other players too and it would be unfair not to keep most of who we had this campaign as we are a work in progress but I want to highlight these players in particular.

Delly on staff to give some heart. I would also like to see @ME as a consultant to keep everyone in check.

Reply #924672 | Report this post


You are free to evaluate and criticize players.
But I hope those people know this.
Did the coaching staff really utilize their strengths and weaknesses?

Regardless of grades, let's take Japan as an example. Although they were less big, physical, and athletic than other teams, their coaching staff utilized the strengths of their players to the best of their ability and they beat Finland.
Did many people think Brazil would beat Canada? no. They had good organization and balance and played to the strengths of their players.

But we had a lot of talented players, we had fast, athletic players, but we played a slow half-court offense with Ingles.

What direction does the Boomers want? It's really frustrating.

Reply #924673 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

Valid point MaxM

Reply #924674 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

"I'm another who cannot understand why there were no plays to set him up for them"

That was another obvious missed opportunity: Giddey PnR with Reath. Giddey is a talented pick-and-roll player, so on a team that otherwise didn't have much of an offensive system, I'm surprised they didn't attempt this most basic play. Reath was knocking it down.

Then again, it seemed like there weren't many plays run for anyone.

I don't mean to pile on Goorj because I respect him, but this was his tournament to prove his system. Prove his defensive system. A chance to build on the Lemanis era offense or offer his own. It might be easier to demonstrate this against poor opposition, but it seemed like our hastily organised qualification and Asia Cup teams ran a much better organised offense than this A team.

Defensively, we had more good defenders to choose from, but our defence regressed.

I'd like BA to invest in trying to keep a B team -- with the B team coach, if Goorj stays on -- around to scrimmage with the A team prior to major tournaments. As Bogut said, it's probably better preparation than playing against lower tier international teams and it should help build culture, the system and a pathway for better fit players to enter the A team. It could also seriously embarrass the A team, instead of getting embarrassed in the major tournament.

Reply #924675 | Report this post


MaxM  
Last year

I think we can all agree that this squad had the potential to be one of our best teams ever ON PAPER. Regardless of the apparent lack of quality bigs and shooters.

So that to me says the main problems was chemistry and coaching rather than player selection.

Other than Landale, maybe Simmons, and maybe one more change, I don't think we'll see much of a player turn off for the Olympics.

Reply #924677 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Last year

This group was never in contention to medal anybody who though differently was delusional

Reply #924678 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

The bookies said otherwise

Reply #924679 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Last year

I'd be interested in an old generation vs new generation comparison as it will likely be a complete transition by 2026.

2019 old core
Mills
Ingles
Delly
Baynes
Bogut


2026 new core
Giddey
Green
Proctor
Daniels
Landale
Zikarsky

Reply #924680 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

All very passionate around here,
truth is we make free throws against Germany we are still in it, Cooks had a few great games and I thought would star against Slovenia, he got targeted on D and boxed out around the ring. If he's going to play the five spot got improve against the euro bigs. His outside game really doesn’t offer any other position unless he can shoot jump shots.
Giddey also has to let the ball move more, you need space to be excellent three point shooters.
White clearly under used, Reath as well.
I don’t like bagging the coaches but to win fiba tournaments you can’t play nba style unless you’re the USA who have super athletes all over the floor as well as shooters even in their second, third string teams. Our team is basically bench nba guys, Giddey excepted.
With a bit a luck and a few tweaks we ain’t that far off. It happens and yes Ingles has probably done his time, goorg the jury is out, same with other coaches but it’s not all doom and gloom.

Reply #924682 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

I know we'll likely never know but ... I wonder how much of a generational issue there was between the old guard and the (largely) NBA newbies, and between old Euro/Asian-centric Goorjian and the young (& largely NBA) players.

Reply #924683 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

I should clarify to be fair to Bogut. He said better off spending more time in camp scrimmaging within the team. Why not use the depth of Australian basketball to our advantage? Let our B team players test themselves against the A team. The A team needs an identity. Needs a system. Needs time playing together.

Hopefully the final game against Georgia can be well utilised. This tournament isn't over yet and the team can still benefit from it.

Reply #924684 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

It's interesting that virtually everyone is still holding out for Simmons, with some even wanting to pay him to play, but I think Simmons would kill us at FIBA tournaments. The last thing we need is a player unable or unwilling to shoot the ball in any situation and one of the worst free throw shooters in the world to boot. He would shore up the defence somewhat, but I thought the last two seasons proved he doesn’t deserve a spot whether he wants it or not. He got way ahead of himself after a solid breakout season. His deficiencies are massive. He’s more likely to be a liability than an asset, particularly with his shocking attitude.

Reply #924686 | Report this post


This seems to be the most realistic method.
We need to build a roster of 24 players and more work is needed in camp.

Reply #924687 | Report this post


Ballman  
Last year

Basketball Australia mucked up here by withdrawing support for Cottons fast citizenship. At FIBA level cotton is an MVP level player and unlike most of the boomers, doesn't play as a role player off the bench. He lights up for the big occasion and not scared to shoot like we saw in this game from Ingles and even Patty.

Get Cotton to Paris ASAP. Sorry Thybulle you just do not win games for us.

Reply #924688 | Report this post


Derider  
Last year

Cotton would be invaluable at his prime, but I think that was 2 or 3 years ago. He's lost a step in recent times. Still a great NBL player, but I don’t know that he’s the answer at international level.

And Harvey shouldn’t even be mentioned. He’s been great for the Hawks, but blows hot and cold and puts up too many journeyman performances to be in serious consideration. He’s a poor man’s Mills.

Reply #924689 | Report this post


Kay currently has a 40% 3-point shooting percentage in the league, but 28.6% in this World Cup. He doesn't make any difference in his shot attempts either. It's not like Kay is shooting in front of the opposing defender. It's wide open.
Also, we suffered from his outside defensive issues.
Yes, Simmons can also cause us pain. However, my thoughts are that as long as Simmons doesn't disrupt the Boomers chemistry, I hope he plays defense rather than those who have problems with both offense and defense.

Reply #924690 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

^that's what I thought when I saw the initial 18 man squad - too many redundant players and not enough shooting ability. Bring 24-25 in and let them compete for spots. And people here keep throwing names ie Giddey, Green, Daniels, Proctor... having 6-7 players that are 6'6-6'8 with similar abilities makes no sense regardless the names. No knock on them just a fact they should compete for spots as well - unfortunately it may come to that to see an NBA player cut. None of these names come anywhere close to the shooting ability of Patty or Goulding (who didn't get a burn go figure). I'd say it may be easier convincing CG to play defense than improving shooting of some of the players. Hack, I don't think we would see CG's defensive flaws last night since everyone was awful defensively.

And stop comparing NBA stats with anything, even Doncic can't replicate his NBA stats at this level. Ingles will never have (and rarely got) open looks in the WC or Olympics which he gets in the NBA. And the point about NBA style of play is very valid, so why not spending more time together to instill the style of play that suits, otherwise we will have these discussions after every tournament.

Reply #924691 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I think this last few days of FIBA basketball have shown that names and talent aren't the be all and end all. You have to have a balanced roster where everyone knows their roles.

Reply #924692 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I think Ben Simmons wouild have to be a point forward for the Boomers and take Kay's spot. Youd need him surrounded by shooters and that may actually mean looking seriously at DJ Vaselivic and Goulding and whoever else may emerge. Defensive liabilities but we had good defensive guards and how did that turn out? Clearly shooting is a big problem and Ben wont improve that but may give us a better shot inside and with post creation

Reply #924693 | Report this post


Thybulle and Kay were the Best Players at the Tokyo Olympics.
But after two years, Thybulle doesn't know what he's doing with the team and Kay has caused us pain.
I believe that the problem occurred not because of the changed roster, but because our team defense method changed.
If you actually look at the indicators, we are surprisingly an offensive team. They are averaging 92.3 points.
This is not a defense team. We concede a lot of goals. An average of -85 points. Even though there are players like Exum, Green, and Thybulle.
The coaching staff is obsessed with on-ball defense, not team defense. Rotation's defense was poor, but they didn't make up for it.
Did you feel something was wrong? The offense was obviously poor, but the defense was also poor.
Thybulle can be a good card or a bad card depending on how the team uses it. The same goes for Kay.
The reason I continue to criticize the coaching staff is because we were unable to utilize the strengths of the players we had.

Reply #924694 | Report this post


I think like this.
What can we do well? What is special about us compared to the opposing team?
I still think it's defense. (Quick attack after defense)
The defense was a mess in this World Cup, right? You could say that, but I think this is a problem with the defensive system and rotation, not player skill.
Of course, the offense needs improvement, but if you get too caught up in that, everything becomes ambiguous. We watched how Goulding played in 2019 and 2021. In important games, his shots don't go in. After all, defense is the priority.

Reply #924696 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

One positive which Simmons would bring is the ability to draw fouls with his explosive speed and length.

He may miss a lot of his foul shots, but if he could help get the other team over the team foul limit by halfway through each quarter, then we *should* be able to get a lot of points off this. (I say should because we haven't done very much in that regard this WC.)


[It’s probably appropriate to refer to this comp as the WC because that’s where our hopes went, down the S-bend.]

Reply #924697 | Report this post


Crackers65  
Last year

What we saw in the warm up games was basically what we saw in the tournament. To me it's all on the coach. Why the hell are assistant coaches calling subs and drawing up plays.No idea what Caporn drew up
and neither did the players, cause they certainly didn’t run anything. There is heaps of talent in Australian basketball, but not many coaching options. Goorjian will play the politics as he always does so well, but Basketball Australia needs to really put some pressure on him. That sort of shit show is not acceptable.

Reply #924699 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

I was happy for Goorjian to be given the chance to take the men, just like I supported Sandy Brondello being given the chance with the women. (Even though I was f**ked off with the way they treated Lemanis to make Goorjian happen.)

However, BA needs to recognise when their coaching appointment hasn't worked and then ACT on it.

Reply #924700 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Goorjian likes what he sees in the future:

Head coach Brian Goorjian said the team is naturally disappointed at the result, but optimistic as the Boomers head towards the 2024 Paris Olympic Games.

"Preparation for the Olympics starts now, we learned a lot," said Goorjian, “I think we're in a process of change in style of play, both offensively and defensively.”

“We’re all disappointed but I’m definitely excited about where this team can go. Some big decisions are ahead but I like what’s in front of me,” he said.


https://www.australia.basketball/news/3664140/boomers-defeated-by-slovenia

Reply #924701 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Hopefully he plays white, Daniels, goulding and Thybulle alot to see if they are up for next year. Nothing games should still mean 100% effort.

Reply #924702 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

If he doesn't and they get dropped for Paris, they’re going to have every right to be pissed off

Reply #924703 | Report this post


Knockdown3  
Last year

I'd like to know what the players' thoughts are on the matter.
Wouldn't be surprised if they'd like a change.
I personally mean no disrespect to Goorj, but everyone can see a number of obvious repeated flaws in this campaign.
No doubt the players can too.


Reply #924704 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

I'm not optimistic about Simmons joining the team, but his position should be conditional on him buying in to a specific role.

At best, I see him as either a mobile 5 in a switchable line-up, the Cooks role, or playing alongside a stretch big like Landale and becoming a facilitator, the Bogut role. Not a PG. Limited minutes, no hack-a- opportunities, high intensity D. Like Cooks. But what makes him more valuable than Cooks, potentially, is that he can facilitate more on offense, like the Bogut role rather than setting up an offense. Those complaining that Giddey isn't a PG in FIBA; well, Simmons isn't going to do any better. The part of Simmons' game that is most outstanding and could be an exciting addition to this team is his ability to generate transition opportunities.

But I feel like this is fantasy talk. Firstly, Simmons doesn't buy in, he sulks. His comments about the Nets new coach shows how egocentric and emotionally sensitive his thinking is. Secondly, it takes time to learn to play that high post role well and time to learn the system as Bogut did. Thirdly, who is going to introduce the system?

Otherwise, Simmons may not be much of an upgrade over Cooks.

Reply #924705 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Which Naturalised player fits best?

With Cotton...
Giddey / Exum
Mills / 6'0 Cotton* / +1 G (DJ, WMW or Proctor)
Green / Daniels
Simmons / Cooks / White
Landale / Reath

With Harvey…
Giddey / Exum
Mills / 6’4 Harvey* / +1 G (DJ, WMW or Proctor)
Green / Daniels
Simmons / Cooks / White
Landale / Reath

With Thybulle…
Giddey / Exum
Mills / +1 G (DJ, WMW or Proctor) / Daniels
Green / 6’5 Thybulle*
Simmons / Cooks / White
Landale / Reath

Reply #924708 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Couldn't play Giddey and Simmons on the court at the same time because they both want the ball too much.

If Simmons grabbed a rebound, he would likely be off down the court before his teammates have realised, whereas with Giddey they’d be down the court before he dribbled across halfway. The uncertainty if they were both on would be mind-blowing for their teammates. LOL

Reply #924709 | Report this post


Weedy, study the new lineup.
Mills should compete as a Sixth man in next year's Olympics.

Reply #924710 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Who you starting over mills?

Reply #924712 | Report this post


That is our new challenge.
A year can be a short time, but it can also be a long time.
Among the young prospects, there may be a player who makes tremendous progress.

Giddey - Exum
Green - Mills - (DJ or Proctor)
White - Thybulle - Daniels
Simmons - (Cooks or Kay)
Landale - Reath

I don't know about the future, but for now this is all I can think of.

Reply #924718 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Kay, dear lord... it's over for him despite Goorjians obsession.

Green is unproven at the 2 just like white is not a legit wing.
no proven shooter in the s5.
Alot better defensively though…

Reply #924720 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

With the same 12...

Giddey / Exum
Proctor / Mills / Daniels
Green / Thybulle
Simmons / Cooks / White
Landale / Reath

Reply #924722 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Keep in mind that Goulding is a much better defender than Vasiljevic is right now. Hopefully that changes in the next year.

Reply #924723 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Would like to see mcdowell white get a shot at sg in meaningless lead up games. Likely the only guy avaiable as the rest will be playing in the u.s.

Reply #924724 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

I think WMW is a good idea, we need another PG apart from Giddey and Will's game is very transferable to the FIBA game.

Reply #924727 | Report this post


In my opinion, if Simmons plays, there is a high probability that he will be the ball handler.
Then you don't have to worry about the wings. Perhaps White will play the number 4 role a little more.
I still think Green should get more of a roll. He is currently playing basketball like he did when he played with Doncic. I don't think he has Doncic and he needs to show his basketball skills.

Reply #924728 | Report this post


twenty four  
Last year

Sorry, why are we mentioning Tyler Harvey?

Reply #924739 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Because he may be naturalised

Reply #924740 | Report this post


twenty four  
Last year

Again, why are we mentioning Tyler Harvey?

Reply #924741 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Weedy this is the point where you reply with "touché".

Reply #924743 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Because he may be naturalised
The "one naturalised player" rule is a maximum, not a minimum.

Reply #924747 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Let's say Cotton does not end up getting citizenship and Thybulle gets injured or has another stinker. What’s the issue with Harvey being an option?
We need scorers off the bench and he can put the ball in the hole from deep.

Reply #924749 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Let's say Cotton does not end up getting citizenship and Thybulle gets injured or has another stinker. What's the issue with Harvey being an option?
The "one naturalised player" rule is a maximum, not a minimum.

Reply #924750 | Report this post


Harvey ain't close to 6'4"

Reply #924752 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

You should probably do a little research...

Measured in at 6'2.75" without shoes, 6’4" with shoes, a 6’5.5" wingspan and 8’2.5" standing reach at the 2015 NBA Draft Combine.

Reply #924753 | Report this post


2027 World Cup
Cotton 36 years old
Harvey 35 years old

Reply #924754 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

Do guys like WMW have the odds stacked against them a bit wrt Paris?

If Boomers want to bring in a true - and better - PG, then where would they slot in Giddey (who's the best prospect for our future)?

If Giddey can only play PG, then that limits our versatility somewhat. It would be a bugger if we had to drop someone like Exum to bring in someone like WMW, for example.

Reply #924773 | Report this post


We don't need a PG.
What we need most is Shot Creator and Shooter.

Reply #924775 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

I like WMW. He should be a main feature of the B team. We don't need a PG? What happens if Giddey or Exum is injured?

Reply #924777 | Report this post


My mistake. do not misunderstand. I mistook them for the 12 members of Team A.
I agree with you.

Reply #924778 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:28 am, Thu 25 Apr 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754