Beantown
Last year

Overtime tonight: Olgun on Sixers

On Overtime tonight, Olgun said that CJ wants a big time point guard, but that other voices at the table in Adelaide are thinking best player available. Derrick Walton Jr apparently at the top of the list initially, but they quickly came to the conclusion he was unattainable.

Interesting that some voices at Adelaide are not immediately on the point guard train. Humphries definitely needs some help. There are no other bigs with any size on the team. Galloway, Wiley and Smith-Milner will all get pushed around and scored over by true bigs. And you have injury concerns with both Humphries and Wiley.

So I get where they're coming from, but I think I'd still lean towards a point guard because they need a guy who can run an offence and get the most out of the players on the team.

The other interesting comment made was that they felt sorry for CJ sitting on the sidelines at Summer League, wanting to sign a point guard, but being unable to because Franks and Cleveland were still on the team at that stage.

My immediate thought was yeah, but that wouldn't have been a problem if the team hadn't foolishly gone out and signed Wiley so early! It really was a terrible move to lock up all three import slots like that.


Topic #51420 | Report this topic


Perthworld  
Last year

Who are these other voices?

It's never been made clear who is in charge of recruitment.

Reply #926554 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Honestly it's starting to become hard to care about the Sixers anymore. These last five years it's been poor decision followed by poor decision over and over again. The team just seems to lurch from one bad idea to the next.

Who thought it was a good decision to sign Franklin given his rep? Why bring back a mediocre import like Wiley after four years let alone sign him at the time we did? Why sign Kell after the mediocre season he just had with SEM?

I would prefer the team sign an import big but CJ sounds keen on signing a fourth point guard, on a team full of guards, with no legit back up big for Humphries if/when he goes down injured so who knows what they're going to do.



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Knowall  
Last year

Sixers have bigs trouble agree. Other clubs have beefed up in the front court and I can see Humphries getting into a lot of foul trouble and as others have said teh ain't much depth in the bigs.

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Hendo8888  
Last year

The main glaring need is a go to guy. Someone to be the focal point of the team. No one on this roster stands out as someone who can be that. We just have a team full of ok role players.
There's enough deficiencies across the board with this roster that it shouldn't matter which position the guy plays, we can make it work.
Ideally you'd rather they weren't a specialist center as Humphries is the one guy who shouldn't be coming off the bench and can't be shuffled to another position, but if the best possible guy we can get is a Center, so be it.

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Zodiac  
Last year

Just finished watching Overtime and yes Olgun said CJ wants a PG but was funny was he said CJ's not a fan of McCarron at the point and wants someone more dynamic than him which is why we signed Craig Randall last season. I had to laugh.

CJ's been playing McCarron as our ill-fitting starting PG for the last two years straight yet doesn't rate him?? It just gets worse and worse with the Sixers.

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Q Anon  
Last year

McCarron played PG in Asia Cup qualifiers and now his NBL coach says he isn't a PG.

Great way to install confidence in your players. He average 9 / 4/5.5 in 29 minutes a game at that tournament including a 7/7/9 game v Japan.

If he is saying these types of things publicly , you can imagine what he is saying in the locker room. This gives a great insight into what the issues are.

If he is bowing down to " other voices" then he isn't a leader and doesn't have conviction in what he is doing.

Reply #926561 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

I'd get another big

Cadee and McCarron isn't the most awe-inspiring PG pair, but they're dependable veterans. You've got solid depth at 1-3 with them, Flowers, Kell, Dech. No stars, but 5 players capable of playing decent NBL minutes in 1-3.

Can Starling play a bit of 3?

Big man depth is a bigger problem in this league.

I'd be looking at a big man to complement Wiley and Humphries. That means a stretch 4 with decent size. Someone bigger and tougher than say, Brady Manek, but nimble enough to play 4 alongside Humphries but also alongside Wiley. Think Gary Wilkinson from back in the day.





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DennisRodmansHair  
Last year

As a Sixers fan this is going to be a long season.

The roster is that bad that you would take the best available in any position atm but I think that we need another scoring big. We already have a whole heaps of guards that will be fighting for minutes.

I agree that after Humphries gets injured / in foul trouble we are gonna look real skinny up top. Wiley, Galloway are going to struggle with inside bigs across the league. Which is why another big would help.

Also 36ers really lack a player that you can give the ball too to go score some points. If we can somehow keep a game close for 3 qtrs, who's the guy that we can turn to to close a game?

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DennisRodmansHair  
Last year

Also love the Gary Wilkinson shoutout!

Reply #926564 | Report this post


Pablo Escobar  
Last year

Pretty sure CJ said he went to the US looking for a point guard and got him in Flowers.

Reply #926565 | Report this post


LaPark  
Last year

Haven't they been trying to get out of McCarron's deal since CJ got there? Making a lot of money though so no one else is gonna take that deal and he's certainly not gonna give up the payday either.

Wasn't there also something also about McCarron trying to sign with Brisbane prior to signing with Melbourne back when CJ was the assistant coach and basketball operations manager there and he turned him down then as well?

Reply #926566 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

As others have said, the Sixers roster just has too many problems. They need another good big man, but they also need a dynamic guard too. As I've said over and over again, they never should've signed Wiley, but the owner seems to love him, so we're stuck with an undersized centre who doesn't fit next to Humphries.

It's interesting to hear that maybe CJ wasn't a fan of McCarron well before their Sixers days. Perhaps it does explain McCarron's complete lack of confidence here in Adelaide. But we're in this situation now because of the reckless decision to sack Conner Henry so close to the season.

Both the Henry and Wiley decisions go back to team management/ ownership making bad captain's calls. The team seems to be doing quite well off court with increased membership and corporate links, so its incredibly frustrating that they can't seem to get good basketball ops people.

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Master Chief  
Last year

What a shambles. What were they thinking when they signed Franklin? Did they truly believe Flowers was ready enough to be the starting point guard? Where has the money come from to sign someone like Walton Jr? Why didn't they just spend more to begin with instead of messing around all the time?

I have the feeling it could be some weeks before Adelaide actually manage to bring someone in, and by that time the season might be already slipping away.

What they should have done is moved heaven and earth to secure a big with the NS spot.

Reply #926569 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

I do accept the criticism directed at Mitch, but also feel like most point guards would struggle in a directionless system where they're constantly running into brick walls. It's sort of like saying "We need someone good enough to bail out our poor offense".

Reply #926570 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Master Chief, from what was said on Overtime, Walton was just on top of CJ's wishlist, but was never a realistic option.

I think Mitch ultimately has to own responsibility for his poor play, but it doesn't help a guy get back on track if he knows his coach doesn't really believe in him. If that's true, it would explain some of Mitch's struggles here.

I wouldn't be surprised if CJ has been pushing for an elite guard all along, but management wouldn't or couldn't find the cash. After all, its his coaching career that is on the line.

Last season, he didn't have the money to get what he really wanted, so he decided to take a risk with on a very talented, but mentally fragile Craig Randall. This year, once again he can't get who he really wants, so he goes the high risk/ high reward option with Flowers.

I don't know if the owner has just decided he's not willing to open the purse strings for CJ anymore, or if he's saving cash this year to spend big next year, or if we're just never going to be financially competitive anymore.

Certainly, since the owner took over in 2018 though, last season was the only one where I felt we had two high quality imports. Every other year its just has-beens and fringe professionals.

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Hooper  
Last year

Beantown, how much of Wiley have you watched in recent times? "Pushed around" ? Where, what leagues? Wiley will bring what they missed, energy, spirit and heart, along with talent.

Reply #926575 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

My belief is that the owner was wanting to exit last year so threw the farm at the budget in hopes of raising the value of the team with a title.

Getting Clark in to replace Randall was big spending.

I recall Bogut making a comment about the cost of the roster at the time and I think it was shown that Adelaide spent the most last season at around 2.9m or so.

They are 2 decisions away from being decent enough IMO

Cadee/ McCarron / Dech at PG is fine. Not the leagues best but competent.

DJ for Smith Milner ( no other Aussie at 6'10 is available and can do what he CAN do. I get the knocks on him but he is sitting right there! )

Combo guard in the ilk of Cleveland/ Ennis / Rob Rose and hope Kell is a game breaker.

FWIW the NBL recruits the Next Stars and not the teams so Flowers to Adelaide is nothing to do with CJ other than saying yes we will have him.

Reply #926578 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"FWIW the NBL recruits the Next Stars and not the teams so Flowers to Adelaide is nothing to do with CJ other than saying yes we will have him."

This isn't true. While the NBL contracts Next Stars, teams are often involved in the recruiting.

If they recruit them independent of the NBL, the risk is if they then refer them to the Next Stars program all other clubs get a chance at them, but in the case of Flowers the Next Stars roster spots were pretty much full so that was low risk.

Reply #926579 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

That's a little bit cheeky QAnon. None of us really know what teams spent on their rosters last season but the general consensus was the Kings were likely the top spender, they were just able to hide it better within the cap than the Sixers were. I don't think anyone really thinks the 36ers had the most expensive roster in the league last season.

And no to DJ. We need a big who can play defence, rebound and block shots.

Reply #926580 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Santamaria is the GM of the Next Stars program.

Reply #926581 | Report this post


Bored  
Last year

CJ is not coming out looking great here. Reportedly looking for a better point guard but what it sounds like is that he wants a half court creator/focal point ala Bryce Cotton. Thats not exactly a point guard in that they dont need to start the posession and set the team up and kickstart the offense. McCarron can do that just fine. Bring in a dynamic scoring guard or a big.

Reply #926582 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

@zodiac from Olgun article on ESPN April 2023

Adelaide 36ers: $2.92 million.

South East Melbourne Phoenix: $2.85 million.

Perth Wildcats: $2.64 million.

Sydney Kings: $2.40 million.

Melbourne United: $2.39 million.

Brisbane Bullets: $2.35 million.

Illawarra Hawks: $2.26 million.

Tasmania JackJumpers: $2.05 million.

New Zealand Breakers: $1.80 million.

Cairns Taipans: $1.65 million.

League average: $2.33 million.

Reply #926584 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Hooper, I watched him play a few games in Puerto Rico this year. He was good when Creek's team played small ball against him, but then he didn’t play so much against big centres, who would just shoot over him in the paint.

He’s like Galloway, good hops and can block shots here and there, but he’s not going to stop a good big man one on one in the paint. Humphries is the only guy on our roster who can do that. So if he gets injured or in foul trouble, guys like Alan Williams, Baynes, etc will score at will.

If he was a good shooter that could stretch the floor like Hogg or Franks, then he’d be a better fit with Humphries, but he’s more a guy who thrives in transition where he can exploit mismatches.

That’s part of the reason I want a good ball-handling point guard who can push the pace with this team, because that will maximise what Wiley, Flowers and McCarron can do offensively. Problem is, we really need another defensive big man too, so that Humphries isn’t overworked. If we keep Wiley, then the other option is to cut Kell for a big and replace Franklin with a point guard. I think that’ll only happen if Kell and/or Wiley miss too many games due to injury though.

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Jonno  
Last year

I think the idea of getting a Walton type high level import PG who can average say 15-20pts 5ast is exactly what we need and winning teams in the NBL regularly have a guard of this level, something we havent had in years.


I agree with the potential need for another big, but the elite PG is the bigger need imo, and I think they are planning to use Wiley at C if need be, I would be fine with replacing Kell or Wiley with more of a C to split minutes with Humphries, always thought they should have signed Marcus Lee and Walton to play with Cleveland (or similar), Humphries also did play the majority of games last season and seems to be in good form at the Blitz, so he may cover the C spot just fine.


Reply #926587 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Q Anon, I have heard the same rumour, that the owner was considering selling the club last season and so spent big to try to win a title and increase the value of the team. I don't know if its true, but its certainly the ONLY season since he took over where we actually had quality imports!

Here is Adelaide's imports since the 2018 grand final season:

18/19 - Deleon, Moore, Wiley, Conger (either Deleon or Moore was cut?)
19/20 - Moore, Griffin, Taylor (think Taylor was cut?)
20/21 - Sloan, Crocker, Kendle, Paul (Sloan was cut)
21/22 - Dusty, Withers
22/23 - Cleveland, Franks, Randall (cut)

Of those, Cleveland and Franks are the only two I would have ever wanted back for a second season. Sloan and Deleon were good at one time, but not by the time we got them! Conger was good the previous season, so perhaps we got unlucky there. Wiley can be a highlight reel, but he's not really a difference maker in terms of winning. The rest were either past it, or not really import level to begin with.

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Beantown  
Last year

Jonno, if we had Cleveland, Lee and Walton Jr as our imports I would be over the moon! Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the market we are bidding in!

Reply #926589 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

18/19 Deleon was cut for Conger
19/20 Randall came in for Taylor

I always liked Moore and thought he was very good in year 1.

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Beantown  
Last year

Oh yeah and from what I have heard, DJ won't play for CJ, so that's why he's not on the roster.

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Q Anon  
Last year

* Randle

Reply #926592 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Yeah Moore was fine in year one, because we had a lot of other talent on the roster, but he wasn't a real difference maker like you want your imports to be.

Reply #926593 | Report this post


LaPark  
Last year

Wiley would be a great guy to have if he wasn't an import. Love the heart, hustle and energy he brings on the court and he can be real dangerous in transition, but don't think he's at a high enough level to be spending an import spot on.

Reply #926595 | Report this post


sixtiesrockstar  
Last year

@Qanon DJ has been replaced. He was good at shooting/scoring but can defend the perimeter or the keyway. Starling is better than him in a lot of other areas, rebounding ,speed, team play, not sooking, etc and has showed this every year for the last 10 years in NBL1. If Starling was available as a local many years ago he would've taken DJ's spot back then.

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Ben  
Last year

Funny how the Sixers have now morphed in to what the Bullets have been for the past several years - an absolute rabble with nothing going right.

Reply #926597 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

And if Starling was NBA calibre he'd be the in NBA.... reality is DJ is the best Aussie big available right now and would bolster the 36ers front line dramatically. He needs to be guarded at the other end past the 3 point line which would ( and has) created chances for Humphries or Wiley inside. He wouldnt be guarding the best big on the opposition so any deficiencies would be masked to some degree. DJ has always played his best alongside a defensive minded big.

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Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Like every other year, DJ would be guarding the best guard on the other team as the put him in on-ball after on-ball. Time to move on.

Reply #926599 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Q Anon, thanks for quoting the official salary cap figures from last season that you know I wasn't talking about.

The Kings won the title in 22 with an all-star roster, Cooks & Vasiljevic were threatening to leave so both got big fat 3 year deals last off-season, no doubt a lot of it not officially counting against the cap. The Kings would've been the highest spending team again last season.

btw your boy DJ is the answer to a question no one asked. He wouldn't move the needle on this Sixers team one iota, he's 35 now give it a rest.

Reply #926601 | Report this post


Flinders 88  
Last year

Did the 36ers just replace their import with DP Keanu Rasmussen?

Reply #926608 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Not sure how this could be read any other way Zodiac

"None of us really know what teams spent on their rosters last season but the general consensus was the Kings were likely the top spender, they were just able to hide it better within the cap than the Sixers were. I don't think anyone really thinks the 36ers had the most expensive roster in the league last season."

I gave you the salary spend from last season( 22/23,) the season that I was talking about in the comment that you replied to.

Reply #926623 | Report this post


BigD  
Last year

If DJ was as good as some people say he is on here we would've been snapped up by someone else, there is a reason why nobody wants him...

Reply #926624 | Report this post


Basket 91  
Last year

Tells me CJ isn't running the show/recruiting

Reply #926627 | Report this post


Observer  
Last year

The owner is telling CJ who to recruit ( so more $$$) saving in his pocket.

Reply #926638 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I am resigned to the 36ers having a laughable season this year. I think anyone looking for silver linings or hypotheticals where the team competes for anything are wasting their time. I've been a sixers fan since day one but I know a pile of dog shit when I see it, and that's what this team is. There are too many changes they'd need to make to be competitive and with only one import spot available, they can only make one.

They need a real NBL starter level point guard - they dont have one. They need a scoring guard of some sort. They don't have one. They need help inside - they don't really have it. It's going to be like a cartoon skit where when you plug a hole on the ship you're unplugging another. It's going to be like trying to strain water.

The shadow of JVG still hovers over this team in the names of CJ Bruton and Mitch McCarron. I was a McCarron fan before Adelaide signed him. He was a great glue guy for Melbourne United. But anyone who actually watched those games knows that the only reason he was effective is because he had the talent around him to make him so. He always had a lot of help. Making McCarron the go-to guy made no sense and thus he was overpaid. Now, you've got a guy who hasn't played well in 3 seasons now, stuck to your team, burrowed in like a tick and you just cant get rid of him. And along with that he's taking a big chunk of cash that you cant use elsewhere.

And then there's CJ Bruton. I am not even sure how good or bad a coach he is given he's been handed consistent shit sandwiches as players. But what I can say comfortably is he's not a top level coach that can get the best out of what he's given. He's not, for instance, Trevor Gleeson or Rob Beveridge. It's on the coach to make something of the pieces they're handed and he's not made anything of them. You have to be realistic and say that he just cannot be the best man for the job. There are certainly deficiencies in play style and tactics that would make you question his ability.

I've heard a Boti rumour that Adelaide are looking to go for Trevor Gleeson. It may well be the most important move they've made in years.

The one thing the Sixers do well is fill the arena. How? I don't know. The team has been a shitshow since 2018. But they've taken Adelaide Arena and done something with it. We just need to get something on court worth turning up for. I am not sure how long Adelaide will suffer through less-than mediocrity.

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Dunkman  
Last year

I think Sixers will be competitive, their last blitz game with only the local nbl guys was good. They have beaten SEM also in a practice game. I say give it at least 4-5 rounds before the knives are out.

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Peter  
Last year

Good summary ME.

Regarding Boti's rumour, of course they should have contacted Trev, it would be negligent if they didn't.

The big question is can they convince him to consider it. He won't come this year so hell, save this years import money and give to him as a signing bonus next year. Management would need to stay out of any recruitment decisions though and give him full control.

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I think the most pertinent question is when does Mitch McCarrons contract end? That deal has been nothing but a black hole for us.

Reply #926668 | Report this post


Peter  
Last year

Apparently Mitch signed 3 year deal from July 2021, so this should be his final year.

Anything could happen from then

Reply #926678 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I wouldn't jump to sign anyone to a long term deal next year. I think the concept of "building a championship" in the NBL is overblown. Teams change a lot. There is no 'process". Sydney have won cups with largely different teams for two consecutive seasons. We cant really afford to pick up some guy, keep him long term, and risk the form spiralling out of control. Only sign long term once they've had a season with us and shown and proved, and even then, one season, two seasons max. There aren't too many Aussies especially that I'd be confident signing long term and one of those few denounced us years ago (Creek).

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Master Chief  
Last year

Signing Gleeson to a long term deal would be a massive step forward. Move heaven and earth.

Get in before Perth and maybe SEM if their coaching situations aren't working. Maybe Illawarra is the other team.

Reply #926693 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

In a league where 4 clubs have won something like 19 of the past 21 titles, I personally think building a championship is very important. That doesn't mean don't change, but build around key pieces, system and culture, adding and subtracting pieces as opportunity/need arises.

Reply #926699 | Report this post


DennisRodmansHair  
Last year

As much as would love to have Gleeson as the coach, the reality is that there's not many clubs that wouldn't welcome Gleeson with open arms. If he wants to coach in the NBL he's gonna have some options. So why on earth would he want to come to Adelaide? Seriously, look at the some of decisions made in the last 5 years by the club. Hes probably shaking his head like the rest of us are.

Reply #926724 | Report this post




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