I'm not sure about a "challenge match". For U14s and U16s, 12 teams have already qualified for VC. 4 will get added by coming first in their AA grading pools, and 4 more teams will make it via a 2nd vs 3rd crossover game amongst all of the AA pools. That will make the full complement of 20 VC teams. There is no “challenge match”.

Challenge Match definitely exists. It's been used in each of the last three seasons at least, and almost certainly prior to that, and nearly always with U12s.

The VJBL don’t have anything specifically written as to how they choose the opponent I’m fairly sure, but from memory the opponent has been pre-selected from the winner of a particular crossover to make VC between two teams where the results of those teams has been convincing of a VC team. I can’t recall the team trying to jump up ever being successful, could be wrong though.

Interesting. I can see why this could be needed, especially at U12 if a particularly strong team inherits a ranking with no pathway to VC.

If the team won their challenge match, how do they make room? Does a team who thought they qualified by winning the AA 2v3 crossovers get dropped to VJL1?

Do you know BigD?

Have coached at under 12 level for quite a number of years ,no association whatsoever with Melton ,but there under 12 boys side was quite dominant at Bendigo Classic and would definitely be not out of place in VC,

I remember a successful challenge, it was in U12's, maybe 10 years ago. Mornington had an unexpectedly dominant team & were granted a challenge against Dandenong 1, it went into OT from memory & Mornington won.

I felt very sorry for the Dandenong team, they had won their crossover on the Friday night (which should've secured their spot in VC), only to have to front up on Sunday for the challenge (they were clearly deflated). I think their winning margin was the least & that's why they had to play the challenge & not one of the other teams who had also won their way through on the previous Friday night.

The Altona Boys 12.1's started in pool 3 and won each of their games in phase 1 by 60+ points.

I see in phase 2, starting in pool BB they have won by 45 points and then 59 points.

I think they might be one club looking to go higher than the grading map allows.

I coached against them in phase 1 and they were well ahead of my boys

Altona 12.1B could be close to being in the ball park. Looking at their EDJBT results they had single digit losses to Blackburn and Westgate 1s who are both through to VC if they win their games this week.

They are the standout team in pool BB

Appears that Altona will be getting a challenge match with Melbourne this Friday - both sitting in VC Crossover pool for round 2.

Going to be an interesting one and I'd say tough for Melbourne to win looking at past results.

U12 Girls VC challenge: Sunbury 1 vs Nunawading 2.
Nunawading 2 qualified by winning VC crossover vs Bulleen 1, but Sunbury 1 who were in lower division being given a chance.
Funny thing with the choice of opponent is that Nunawading 2 beat both Whittlesea 1 and Camberwell 2 (who both won VC crossovers on Friday as well) in previous games played versus each other.

The Sunbury girls crossover was at least a blowout.

Altona only won their VJL1 crossover against Frankston 12.2 by 7pts... tenuous grounds for a challenge if you ask me.

Looking at it LC - I guess they had to pick between Camberwell and Nuna for the girls as they both had a 3pt win in the xover. And for the grading 2 games Nuna had the smallest win margins for the games they won.

Brutal either way!

Always tough for teams who rode the system and qualified only to get a challenge!

IMO VJBL should look at teams before Christmas that look like they are in the wrong grades and give them additional "mid-grading" challenge games then. There is already a spare week available in the schedule to play these games prior to Christmas. Why not be proactive and make changes earlier where they are obvious?

VC in particular has two slots for Grading Phase 2 that are "the best two ranked teams from Grading Phase 1". May as well go further and look at challenge games.

Totally agree, the make up round on 15 Dec could be be the perfect time to run a challenge between those two "best ranked 4th placed teams" and any of the challengers.

Altona look like they were down in Pool 3 at that point. Can't see the pool 3 results as they're gone from playhq but I'm guessing they were winning by a lot at that point and should have stood out.

I am aware of a successful challenge match 2 years ago.
The team qualified on the Friday, to be advised early in the week the opposing club made application for the challenge and they were selected being the latest and lowest ranking team.
They subsequently lost by 3 points, though had beaten the team in grading. It was club initiated, not VJBL initiated.

@LC
Just a hypothetical question (if you happen to know the answer)

In regards to the U12 game between Nunawading 2 and Sunbury 1, what happens if Nunawading 2 decide to decline? Can the VJBL direct them to play, and if not then do they lose the spot?

Does anyone know if these challenge games are played in a neutral venue or played at the home of the "incumbent" team?

Cannot decline a challenge game if it is arranged and/or approved by the VJBL. VJBL however can decline a club request for a challenge game.

Challenge games are to be played at neutral venues (i.e. U12 girls game is being played at Montmorency SC).

If Nunawading for example decline to play and do not show up, they effect forfeit the game and their provisional place in VC.

Thanks for the update. Good information which all makes sense.

Looks like Altona won their challenge match. They beat up on teams in phase 1 of grading by 60+ points, and then won by roughly 40+ points in phase two. They the. Best Frankston 12.2's. Sounds like they did everything they possibly could to win their right to play a challenge match.

They then won that too.

Seems to me that they were always graded to low, in a grading system that makes no sense in under 12’s. They started pool 3 because that’s where the 12.1’s finished in 2022. Non of the boys in the current team would have been at the club then. It would be crazy for them not to get a challenge game

The challenge match does exist and it's atthe discretion of the VJBL l believe.
A few seasons ago in u12s I think it was Hawthorn 2 won their crossover match for VC, only to then be given a challenge match which they lost by a point.
So they ended up in Met 1.

This was the year I learnt about challenge matches!

Afaic, the idea of Challenge Matches is a simple demonstration that the BV Grading System is flawed.

BV Ranking and Grading is apparently based on results from two years ago. Might have worked effectivley back in the day when there wasn't a lot of player movement between associations. But the sport is a lot more dynamic these days.

I'm not sure if ranking / grading teams on the basis of player performance rankings is considered at the moment ... but perhaps it should.

I mean look at the way that Fantasy Footy Leagues (eg. SuperCoach) work.

Perahps something like that is the way forward for BV because I think we are going to see a lot more movement of players between associatons over the next decade.

The idea that teams should be ranked / graded on team results from two years ago seems archaic to me and is driven by vested interests.

You're asking BV to do something SENSIBLE, MODERN and HARD?! Hahahahahahahaha. Whatever you’re smoking, I want some, bro’

They’ll be up against constant challenges and whinging from parents and clubs about individual ratings and who’s rated higher than someone else etc etc