If Gleeson returns it'll be kings. Goorj imo will be at Sixers. Kelly drew a crap card from the beginning, even there best players, Williams and Creek defensively are not great. All their other imports were either injured and when fit never followed team play or defensively not great. Nadar was either injured or poor. Creek I thought in his interview straight after game said he’s headed out today for next job. I think Kelly will be given the chance to get his selections and with Creek and Williams under contract, get players to fit with them, a pass first point for a start.
I’m actually hear a few players from all teams are looking at Japan and China, players have short career and chase money.

There isn't a coach on this planet that could have overcome the injury issues SEM had this season.

I agree Angus - when his weak bench ended up having to be starters and few really lifted their game, he was toast.

The strength and conditioning dept needs to go first.

You got it, BB!!

Nearly all the S and C are ex united, sometimes things just don't go right. SEM have never been built properly, always so much relying on Creek, it’s a team game, yes he’s gun but you need balance.

Kelly should not be the scape goat.
Maybe the Bosses above him should be the one's to go.They were the one's who got the players before Kelly was announced.

SEM have had major injury problems and you can only go with the cattle you have.

Only one is ex United. They weren't sad to see him go.

Given 36ers appear to be going with Ninni, I imagine Sydney and SEM will be split between Gleeson and Goorj

KET, getting the opposite impression now. I think BG might be a go...

Way Sixers gone today they might be better stay with Ninnis. He be a lot cheaper, leave more money for players.

MC, John Casey at the start of the coverage made it sound like the owner told him Ninnis will be the go

KET, missed that.

Absolutely love MK, but torn. He can only do so much with all the injuries we've had this year, but SEM must make strong decisions going forward. I hope they stick with MK and fully support him, but also understand if there is a slight opportunity that they can snare one of those big names.

Are the big names going to do any better.

Dunkman, that's a great question. Fingers crossed SEM make some wise decisions as NBL25 is going to be incredibly competitive right across the board, if this year is anything to go by.

All the coaches that finished the season deserve to continue, yes there's two big names waiting but imo I don’t think they would do better than all coaches that finished the season. Kelly got to be able to put his team together, SEM have never been strong enough defensively in all their seasons, it’s exactly the opposite to how JJs built their team.

Have heard from a decent upcoming free agent that he's not considering SEM due to Kelly's hard-nosed "you will do as I say" approach to coaching, as opposed to the player-centric perspective utilised by most these days.

I like Kelly, but food for thought when it comes to compiling a playing roster for SEM and thinking about who they want at the helm moving forward.

Red Auerbach couldn't have got this SEM group into the top 6 with all their injuries.

It's worth remembering they were 8-6 at the halfway mark. Adjusted to 28 games that's 16-12- equal with 3rd placed JJ's and 1 win behind Perth.

Players not wanting to go to SEM because of a hard nose approach probably not wanted, SEM have been so loose as a club it's time for some authority. Go to the successful clubs, JJs for a start, they start at the D end. Sixers turned their season around by sorting their D out.
Interesting times at SEM, certainly with Ninnis in box seat at Sixers, where to for goorj.

Lol MK hard nosed - imagine Gleeson coming in who is probably twice as hard, so this is all BS. Maybe it does come with players and who wants to be professional - they are paid to play hard and win games. If they can't handle a coach who simply asked just that then they should move elsewhere. Doubt any of the big names will come in as long as Creek is taking a bulk of the cap. None of these guys will be cheap (not sure it is counted towards the cap).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but judging Mike Kelly on this year is not ideal, and not really fair. As with all teams, there are so many factors to how their season has played out but for Phoenix the below have been huge contributors (mainly negative):

PLAYER AVAILABILITY -
Mitch Creek - 23 of 28 games
Gary Brown - 20 of 28 games
Alan Williams + Tyler Cook - 18 of 28 games
Will Cummings + Abdel Nader - 20 of 28 games
Craig Moller - 12 of 28 games

So just looking at the projected starting five, they have missed a combined approx 47 games (give or take with injury replacements etc). Then if you take into the account games where 3 imports + Creek + Moller were missing that is probably at least 4 or more???

Then they miss playoffs by 3 or 4 games. Massive impact and largely out of the control of Mike Kelly. (other teams like NZ and MU also had injuries but not to this scale).

ROSTER MAKEUP -
With Mike coming into the club after some of the roster has already been signed, this would have been difficult to manage.
Having 4 guards Six Foot or under (Brown, Cummings, Ayre, Foxwell) was always difficult to understand and in hindsight was not the best approach. Brown was bad signing with his injury history, Cummings set up to fail as didn't have ball enough for what he needed and on D would be on bigger player, Ayre got his role confused and thought he was one of primary options, Foxwell regressed because no opportunity.
Then I believe Vague and Reuben signed also before Mike.

Then signing Brown who has history of injuries, Nader coming off 2 year rehab, Moller coming off rehab and major injury, Williams being banged up last season, and Creek an injury risk because of workload, there was always a risk of missing priority players for big periods.

The above is largely out of Mike Kelly control and is most likely the responsibility/accountability of Management and Owners.

Kelly may not end up having a long and successful career at Phoenix but judging him on this year would be a mistake.

Good analysis. I too feel that MK deserves another season and management haven't been accountable enough.


I think you’re being kind to some of the players.

Ayre is a head-case who doesn’t have the judgement or self-control to instil confidence. Suitable only for end of bench or release, unless he calms down and starts thinking more about the team and less about him.
Te Rangi is no longer up to NBL standard except against weak players where his experience and skills can show. End of bench or release.
Vague has regressed and is like Te Rangi. End of bench or release.
Kenyon I’m still not sure about - very inconsistent but with an obvious ability as a defender.

The rest probably deserve another season to develop.

Imho Creek is a very good player but isn’t suited to carrying the team, especially when guarded closely. Because he’s the main man, this must have an impact on how freely the others feel they can play. I’d love to see how MK could develop a team without Creek there.

The problem is Creek is so loved by the Phoenix fans that it'll be hard to release as he’s contracted, yes does take up so much of the spend, no so much cap as he’s a marquee but it certainly leaves less money for others. Imo they have never had the point guard they needed as everything went through Creek. Now Creek offensively is a 9 out 10, defensively though is 6.5 on a good day, so still a very good player. Interesting times at SEM and yes I am in the keep MK, I still go back to a pod cast by Simon Mitchell when Moller got hurt, he said they would really struggle and basically said they would battle to make finals, his reasoning was all about his ability to control the team D which led to good offence and how he tried to recruit him over the years.

Thoughts on below roster???

If Creek in a lineup like this then I think he would still be a top level player in league on both sides of ball.

Coping some heat for his D but difficult when carrying the load he has and the rotation didn't help as they were so undermanned other teams could attack from everywhere. (I also believe he could have improved on D just with positioning, vision, and effort)

1 - Will McDowell White
2 - Kell
3 - Creek
4 - Lamb
5 - Williams

Bench
- Ayre
- Kenyon
- Glover
- Statman
- Moller
- Gak

Well yeah that would be an elite lineup, but Lamb will be out for pretty much all of next season, they wouldn't be able to afford that team, and WMW/Kell/Glover wouldn't have SEM at the top of their lists.

But we can dream

SEM roster construction wasn't deep this year - combine that with injuries and a lack of shooting/d leads to a 10 win season.

No injury replacement for Moller either - Adnam has his flaws as a player but would’ve at least been a decent body and better than nothing.

Don’t think many coaches in the league would’ve done better - Kelly at least deserves another year.

What about Foxwell, Observing?

I think he's under contract & could be a good back up PG?

Williams, Creek, Te Rangi & maybe Foxwell were signed prior to MK. Vague was all MK, loved him in the Boomers C team, signed him for 2 years.

Was brushed over above but Goorjian at SEM (read: South East Melbourne Magic, if you like) isn't ridiculous. Not saying that MK doesn't

... deserve to stay on.

What is the thing with Te Rangi.

Why do they keep him on,he is useless.

He must have something on them otherwise he should be GONE.

At what point are we going to admit that Mike Kelly doesn't get results?
By my reckoning, his head coaching career looks like:

Yr1 Taipans - wooden spoon
Yr2 Taipans - GF appearance
Yr3 Taipans - wooden spoon
Yr4 Wildcats - 5th
Yr5 Wildcats - 6th
Yr6 Phoenix - wooden spoon

Then add that with Sam mck as an asst who's off court resume is littered with failures

Copeland hinting that sauce might might not be back, other two saying he's contracted, afl
O
T.

Goorj pulled himself out of the 36ers vacancy search

Cam Luke on OT saying Phoenix should chase Mccaron for starting point guard, lmao, he's now playing behind Cadee, it must be the old mates act. Copeland and Santa were stunned into silence, though smirking.

"At what point are we going to admit that Mike Kelly doesn't get results?
By my reckoning, his head coaching career looks like:

Yr1 Taipans - wooden spoon
Yr2 Taipans - GF appearance
Yr3 Taipans - wooden spoon
Yr4 Wildcats - 5th
Yr5 Wildcats - 6th
Yr6 Phoenix - wooden spoon"


If you're going to include his results as Associate HC in Perth you'd better include his title as Associate HC at Melbourne.

@Dunkman
You are probably right, regarding McCarron. I don't actually mind the idea of him coming to SEM, but only if it is for a bargain price. Maybe half of the massive contract that he was reportedly on in Adelaide. He still should have some good years left, whether that is starting or probably coming off the bench.
Does anyone else have any ideas of where McCarron may bob up next year?

Get rid of Greer also.
He does not appear to know what to select in players.
Ti rangi must be a favorite of his and thats the only reason he stays on the roster.

McCarron would be a decent signing at the right price.

He may have been overpaid the last 3 years but he's still a good enough player to start in this league.

SEM contract situation
Foxwell, Ayre, Kenyon, Creek, Vague, Williams & Rissetto with a team option.

SEM need to surround Creek with athleticism and shooting and failed to do so last season.

Also haven’t used a next star since been in the league.

Something like this could be good
McCarron/Ayre/Foxwell
Import/Kenyon
Import/Next Star
Creek/Vague
Williams/back up big/

SEM actually have had a Next Star on the roster - Terry Armstrong in the first season. But he was barely used.

I'd rate Ayre and Foxwell ahead of McCarron in skill shown in the game, but McCarron and Foxwell way ahead of Ayre between the ears.

Given that I think McCarron played way below his ability in Adelaide, I think that he could do well with Phoenix. But neither of the 3 strikes me as being a true PG; can Phoenix cope with that, or do they need a specialist import PG like in the past?

I think Greer learned a lot this season from Kelly re recruiting, look at defending ability which I don't believe he has in the past.
If you are going with those three point guards, the spoon is yours again, Foxwell is ok for small minutes, Ayre has talent but is selfish and Mccaron you obviously haven’t watched Sixers in last three seasons. Ninnis basically put him straight to the bench with less and less time, Cadee was playing ahead of him.
Copeland was hinting that Williams might not be back. There is big money in Japan and China now, Creek looks like he already in China finishing that season.
I see Wiley has signed in Spain as well.

"you obviously haven't watched Sixers in last three seasons".

If this was responding to me, I watched most of his games at United and at Sixers. At Sixers he showed very little of the ability he showed with United, which I assume was more of a mental than a physical issue.

I’m hopeful that he can recapture his United form in a different environment.

I've nearly watched all games for years, yes at united he was very serviceable with a fantastic team, his last three seasons are below average. You employ people, players on what they can do, not what they did three seasons ago. You are only as good as your last performance.

You employ players on what they can do for your team at the price that role is valued. McCarron can still play a role, but the demise of his three-point shot has left him far more limited than in his early years.

Cam Luke suggested starting point guard, I'm still laughing, SEM got enough end bench point guards signed already.

I feel like Creek is a difficult player to build around, I don't think Creek and Sauce work well together, Creek didn’t work that well Chi either, Creeks best big has been Daniel Johnson.

I don’t rate Sauce, sure he has a bit of a profile here but I don’t think you can be top 2 in this league if Sauce is top 3 player on your team, Sauce is like a 4 or 5th best player on a championship team.

They overpay for name players who underperform (Brockhof, Chi, many imports with NBA credentials)

Obviously a long list of recruits with injury histories.

It’s like Greer just wants to sign a bunch of names and put them all out together regardless of fit or injury history.

The roster has never really fit together.

Medical team needs to be reviewed.

Like pretty much every SEM player in recent memory the injuries are a worry, but I think Sauce is quality - unfortunately though bigs that play like he does will struggle to stay on the court with NBL referees.

Greer like JVG, keep him out of the roster hiring!

Sauce isn't a strong defender, that's why having Moller in the mix was so crucial. I'd start with strong defenders in the reserve big man spots, and Moller or similar type as the starting 3. Then look at an elite guard who plays both ends, like a Vickerman era Casper Ware type. Then fill the remaining spots.

Creek is a franchise player. Surround him with the right role players and they can be a very good team. Don't forget they blew a 17 point lead which almost certainly cost them a championship 3 years ago.

Exactly LV, Creek needs players put around him to suit his game style. Moller and Ware still doing very good things, of course at the right price.

Creek signed at flying tigers for rest of season. While Creek was on big coin at SEM, it'll be small change to what he’ll get there.