jules
Years ago

Big Shot Bobby's Big Call

big shot bobby said that his spurs could easily beat the lakers and celtics of the 80's...the spurs are meant to be a classy team..and horry isnt reflecting that by saying this...

"No disrespect to the guys back in the 80's and the 70's, but the guys now are so much better than those guys. I don't care what they say. If you look at old films, guys only went right. They turned and kept it in their right hand. Look at the things LeBron can do, Tim can do, Tony can do, Manu can do. Little Gibson over there. There's no way you can compare those guys. We watched what they did and expanded in that."

"Money hurt that Lakers team," Horry said. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys Shaq and Kobe wanted to be the top dog and forgot about the other guys. It all boiled down to money. Money is the root of all evil sometimes."

"Sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees. They didn't win that championship against Detroit (in 2004), and they said, 'OK, Karl Malone you're injured, bye. Gary Payton, you're too old, bye. Shaq, you want too much money, bye.' "

horry...chill...

Topic #11912 | Report this topic


No one in that spurs team could stop wilt chamberlain. and dont even try to tell me bill russell wouldnt block every layup tony parker and manu ginobili went for

60s is easily the best era ever

Reply #139105 | Report this post


M Dizzle  
Years ago

Definately makes some good points, but was there really any need to say any of it? Your just coming off your 7th title Rob I think you should be gratefull for the NBA and all its done for you, past and present.

Reply #139108 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

exactly M Dizzle..i mean he may have a point to some degree...but no way should he have come out and said that..mind u i dont think they could stop magic + kareem..as well as their supporting cast..and up against larry and the celts it doesnt get much easier..kevin mchale would limit timmy duncan..and e.l.g he said the 80's lakers and celts

Reply #139110 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

Any either way ELG, I think the 90s would have to quite easily take the mantle of best decade

Reply #139111 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

mmm - agreed...we were introduced to mj then :)...and the game was very different in the 60's...the players were a lot less skillful...no disrespect to the innovators of the game..but the game has come so far that the 60's...it was no where near as higher standard as that of the 80's onwards

Reply #139112 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

90s obviously isnt the best era.. several new teams were added and changes to the salary cap virtually ruled out any teams having three superstars therefore teams with one superstar could start winning championships ie chicago. the modern day may have better offensive skills and athletisism but the 1% of the game were lost, which is why old school teams such as San Antonio are dominating todays game. plus the changing of the hand check rule make offense much easier.

Reply #139130 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I think for the most part, today's players might be better conditioned, more versatile and more skilled, save for a few exceptional players.

Reply #139137 | Report this post


M Dizzle  
Years ago

With nothing but resepct for the legends of the game, but its a professional league and over 25 years the game is only going to develop and the players are only going to improve. Saying that i have no doubt if the aformentioned were born in today's era they would still be at the top of the game.

Reply #139140 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

1 superstar? pippen? also...rodman? and that superstar WAS mj

Reply #139141 | Report this post


as anon pointed out due to the expansion teams of the 90's the league was diluted, any basketball historian will tell you that. and any in real way the skills have diminished as compared the 70's and 80's due to the fact that athleticism and so called "nba bodies" are now the sought after commodity. I don't believe that the so called great one MJ and his bulls could've matched the Celtics and lakers of the 80's in particular.

On a side note I was watching old showtime lakers games of the 80's today and I really think that knowone in todays game or that of the 90's could keep up with them as far as speed goes. There squad was full of powerful and quick forwards (AC Green, worthy, Thompson, and even rambis was a threat on the break) to add to that they had some of the fastest and most explosive guards (cooper, byron etc) plus who in the bulls could stop kareem. Please people look at the matchups, bulls cant match them (and neither can spurs)

p.s horry and spurs would beat the bulls

Reply #139148 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

sorry people last post was mine! not ELG

Reply #139149 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

and why is that we say that 60's and 70's arnt as good as the media driven 90's. eg. kareem debuted in 1969 played against and was usually dominated by the greatest center of the era, wilt chamberlain.

kareem played through the 80's and faced and he usually dominated most of the centers of that period (including what some consider the best center of our generation, hakeem olajuwon).

so if he was dominated by chamberlain but owned olajuwon, doesnt that tell us something!!!

Reply #139150 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Different stages of his career thats what it tells me big guy who developed late

Reply #139153 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

rodman was no superstar and pippen isn't a franchise player - he was an outstanding role player.

Reply #139156 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

ohh yeh that makes sense. chamberlain was wiping the floor with kareem in what was arguably the twilight of his career. and yeh kareem must have developed late considering in his first 3 seasons averaged 28, 31 and 34. so your comment is dud.

Reply #139157 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

You're basing your entire argument on three players!

Reply #139166 | Report this post


Kriss  
Years ago

I recall Wilt the stilt saying in a doco that Lew Alcindor was the first guy he needed help defending when he came in the league.

Here's a challenge for anyone with no job- go to nba.com and look up Wilt v Kareem stats and post em up to see if this argument is valid.

I would say that 80's era would beat 90's and 70's. Just thought the team would have better fundamental skills but that's only my opinion

Reply #139168 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

scottie pippen isnt a superstar....?

- six time NBA champion
- ranked 40th all time in points
- ranked 4th all time in steals
- ranked 23rd all time in assists
- went to the playoffs 16 of his 17 seasons
- 2nd in NBA history in playoff appearances (behind kareem)
- member of all-defensive team from 1991-2000, including 7 first team selection
- selected one of the 50 greatest players in nba history
- seven time all-star (90, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96 and 97)
- all-star mvp in 94
- made all nba 7 straight seasons (92-98)
- two-time olympic gold medalist
- 20 career triple doubles

are u serious? tell me that when hes inducted into the hall of fame...and i didnt say rodman was a superstar - or i didnt mean it to sound like that..he was just another gun on their team (rebound machine)..and mj, the greatest player of all time combined with these two guys, some great shooters, and solid role players to win those championships

Reply #139180 | Report this post


Panther  
Years ago

Right on Jules!!! Pips the man...anyone who doesn't think he's a superstar look at those stats!!! Compare his stats to someone who you believe is a superstar and see where you end up!

Reply #139191 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I said he isn't a franchise player. a franchise player is someone that you could base your team around. The Lakers in the 80's; you could base them around magic, kareem, worthy. Or in the 60's baylor, west or wilt. When Pippen was the so called 'franchise player' in 93/94 look how far the team got.. didn't get past the conference semis. If you want to compare stats well look at this. scottie pippen as the farnchise player in 93/94 compared to lamar odom in 04/05. Odom got 17/11/4 wheras pippen got 22/8/5 - and odom was the second option behind kobe. I'm not saying that odom is better than pippen rather, proving panther wrong. Don't get me wrong i like pippen - he's the ultimate glue man, but a franchise player.. i dont think so.

Reply #139206 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

u said that teams with ONE superstar could win the 90's coz of salary cap reasons...ONE...and im pretty sure that u were reffering to michael jordan -- thus, meaning u are saying scottie is NOT a superstar...i think u need to read through my previous post...pretty impressive resume in my opinion...on any other team in that era pippen would be the main man...but there was some other dude on that roster who took the spotlight. and ur judging him as not a franchise player on 1 playoff series?! so he fails to win a title without jordan in 1 season and hes not a franchise player? so kobe isnt a franchise player? kg isnt a franchise player? lets see how magic would go without kareem...shaq without kobe..same thing

Reply #139212 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Plus, Pippen led that Bulls team in EVERY major stat category!!

Makes a superstar right there..

Plus they should have been in the Conf finals if not for the dud call Hollins made..

Reply #139217 | Report this post


so what people are saying is they think 90s teams could beat the 60s celtics?

Reply #139219 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

hands down

Reply #139220 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

i agree that 80's would beat any era.

"he presented to me for the first time in my career of basketball, that a guy, that i felt i really needed some help to guard" - chamberlain on kareem.

naturally they where epic battles, but scoutin some box scores of the two vs each other and chamberlain usually won the stat sheet.

now ofcourse im basing it on two players, but the same theory applies to many of the stars of the day.

Reply #139221 | Report this post


what are you basing that on jules. the fact that MJ can score on anyone. there was real defense in the 60s. the rules weren't changed to make life easier for Jordan. 90s is the worst era.

Reply #139224 | Report this post


I mean, there was 1 great point guard (Stockton) two great SGs (jordan, miller) one great SF (pippen, albeit with Jordans help) one great PF (barkley) and 4 centres (robinson, ewing, hakeem, o'neal). 4 of those guys didn't even win rings.

Reply #139230 | Report this post


and karl malone. another guy who didnt win

Reply #139231 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

im basing it on the fact that players evolve over time...same way humans are smarter these days then 40 years ago...ur talking about a team that played 4 decades ago! since that time the players increasingly get better because of those guys...and what they did first...then our generation players pick up these things and add a new twist on it and so on so fourth...can u name a player in the 60's with HALF of jordans skill?

Reply #139250 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

and defense was better?! what are YOU basing THAT on? were u around back then? did u see all the 60's celtics games? i think thats a bit more of an outlandish statement than saying the 90's bulls would beat the 60's celtics...when did they come up against a jordan type player anyway..how would their amazing defense go against him?

Reply #139251 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

oh, and they didn't change the rules for Chamberlain ELG????

The Berlin wall wouldn't have even stopped Jordan

Reply #139269 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

yeh they changed the rules to make it harder for wilt (e.g expanding the key, no defensive 3 seconds). jordan had sperate rules than the rest of the league. it was in the best of intrest of the league that jordan prosper (much the same as D wade is treated now).

I beleive i can cite a player who may have had some tallent im talking about the Big O baby Oscar Robertson the only player to Av a triple double yet he didnt win MVP in the same season in which Wilt Chamberlain Av 50 Points Bill, however Russell walks away with the MVP. so i think that there where people with half as much skills as jordan!

another example of the league favouring there marquee player.

i understand that jules knowledge is solely based on NBA super slams and dope ass cross ups

Reply #139273 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

"The Berlin wall wouldn't have even stopped Jordan"

Im sure Wilt could. he was stronger then said wall

but seriously is this the arguements we can expect from the pro bulls brain trust of hoops SA.

Reply #139275 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

kind of hard not to be pro-bulls in arguments like this...they won six championships..the 70 win season, the best player of all time...

im talking about skill...not numbers...big o didnt have the agility, the quickness, the jump, or ball handling jordan had..jordan was a dominate scorer who had just about everything in his arsenal...what u said doesnt address the point of what we are talking about - how would the celts stop mj? and what 'separate' rules are u talking about..i think u are forgetting u are speaking about michael jordan...and that last line...wtf?! what does that mean? and whats it got to do with any of this?!

Reply #139277 | Report this post


MS  
Years ago

Jules - I think the last line was a reference to the fact you are digging yourself a hole with your uneducated and blatantly biased opinion of the NBA

Reply #139287 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

how can u not know me and say that im being bias...and what did i say that was uneducated? that scottie pippen was a fairly decent player? that no one could stop michael jordan? truly truly uneducated...i apologise..ill do some research next time before i say jordan and pippen are good players...

Reply #139288 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I never said Pippen couldnt be the best player on a team. but he didnt have the ability to take over games and carry his team like a franchise player would. Magic carried his team in 1980 playing center forward and gaurd, jordan carried his team numerous times, KG has the ability to take over games.. Pippen didnt have the ability to take over games on a consistant basis, thus hes not a franchise player.

BTW I dont think pippen led the bulls in every major stat catagory.. i beleieve MJ might have scored 1 or 2 more points than him.

Reply #139290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

'i think u are forgetting u are speaking about michael jordan' #139277

quite bias.. and dumb considering you were talking about rule changes.

Reply #139291 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

nooo...i said 'i think u are forgetting u are speaking about michael jordan' because it sounds like u are cheapening what he did...saying it was easy for him..and that rules changed so he could dominate..ur going completely off topic...pippen never had to carry his team..he wasnt the franchise player - jordan was - and the reason we were talking about pippen in the first place is coz u or someone said he wasnt a superstar..thats all im saying (read his career achievements and ud be stupid to say otherwise) u said that the bulls could win with only one superstar...which is bullshit - stop moving away from the topic

Reply #139296 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

fine big O wasnt as quick or couldnt jump as high (btw like magic, he could out muscle appontents, including probably jordan) so now everyone understands jules oppinion of a basketball player. lets forget the skill based and thought process of the game. get serious jules i hope you've got something more to pin your arguement on.

(btw not knockin jordan or his accomplishments, just the one-eyed jordan fans who cant acknowledge or accept anything about basketball before draft day 1985. or basically anything negative about mj)

Reply #139309 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

and the celts could slow jordan with something called team defence. an art which has virtually been lost since the old-school.

Reply #139310 | Report this post


52-Cans  
Years ago

Undersized, shall I remind you of a playoff series in 1986 Bulls vs Celtics.... Slow Mj down??? Yeh ok.... 63 points in a game and averaging around 50 ppg that series... Yeh Celtics team defence sure did slow him down!

Reply #139312 | Report this post


yes they changed the rules for Chamberlain lockstock. they made the paint wider for one, they disallowed offensive goaltending, no dunking from the foul line during foul shots.... i.e made it harder for him. yet he still domiated

Reply #139316 | Report this post


name one person in the last 15 years jules that can stop wilt chamberlIN. then ill believe your agrument that the worst era 90s can beat the best era 60s. chamberlain scored 50 points a game for a whole season. didnt you know. what did jordan do. jordan didnt lead the league in assists one time. if blocks were counted many alanlyists would say wilt would have averaged a triple dboule for his WHOLE CAREER. jordn ruined the nba with his scoring exploits and his moneymonging. you wonder why the league is so shit now. look at number 23 (and occasionly number 45) michael joran.

in the imortal words of bill russell 'his hand gets caught in the net most of the time;

chamberlain was merely toying with his opponents. if he has the killer instinct of a jordan or a ruseel he coughd of averaged 60, 60-70 points a game. esp in the league you call the 90s. please. HONOUR CHAMBERLAIN NO ONE CAN GUARD HIM!!!!!!!

Reply #139317 | Report this post


what did they do for joran, locstock. they ade it easier for him. i'll name a person with more than his skill... wilt chamberalin. did you know he was an elite track and fielder. probably not, since your so hung up on the bulls

Reply #139318 | Report this post


i agree with Undersized PF> this is a highly intelligent poster, who has an open mind about basketball and watches NBA pre-1991.

and everyone knows Larry bird in 1986 is the most dominant player in the history of the game. he used to shoot left handed cos he got so bored

Reply #139319 | Report this post


The Hamma  
Years ago

52 Cans PF was talkin about the 60s celts not the 80s and correct me if i am incorrect but didnt the Celts sweep the bulls in both 85-86 and 86-87 whilst goin on to win the ship in 85-86 and goin down to the lakers 86-87. so Jordan aving 50 for that series did nothing

Reply #139320 | Report this post


billo  
Years ago

"i agree with Undersized PF> this is a highly intelligent poster, who has an open mind about basketball and watches NBA pre-1991"..... and who posts as ELG sometimes which suggests he's a flatmate, relative or in some way connected to you.

You're right about Chamberlain's skill though, he managed to shoot at a remarkable 51% from the foul line throughout his career.

ELG, can you cite a reference about the rules changing in regards to dunking from the foul line during foul shots? Surely you're not suggesting Wilt was regularly doing this until he got banned.

I think the point Horry's making is that the game has moved on. You name 1 world record that still exists from the 60's, people get faster, stronger, bigger (Wilt was one of only a handful of 7 footers in his day, unlike today where every team has at least 1, often several, and some guys are up to 7-6). Take AFL, you watch footage from 40 years ago and the strategy is basically torping it to a pack and hoping you win the contest, very agricultral, NBA is like this but to a lesser extent, players these days on the whole are more athletic and rounded in their skills.

Reply #139322 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

What do you mean Jordan ruined the NBA. I find that pill a little hard to swallow whilst I agree mostly with what your saying.

The moneymongering was started by the 90's generation of players, namely Larry Johnson (signed a $80 million rookie contract from memory) and Garnett (demanded the first $100 million contract) and to a lesser degree, Glenn Robinson and Jimmy Jackson (refused to sign a contract due to $$$).

Some of my fondest memories of the NBA are the 1980 and very early 1990 before it became all money, lights, bullshit and Sterns retirement fund.

IMO I'd take the Big O and Wilt over Jordan.

Reply #139338 | Report this post


M Dizzle  
Years ago

Not having a crack here, but have people actually watched whole games with Wilt in them start to finish?

Reply #139348 | Report this post


mr clutch  
Years ago

Wilt and Russell could touch the top of the backboard in college. It is said that Wilton Norman Chamberlain could dunk shot from the free throw line; the league heard about this and changed the ruling against jumping over the line during free throws.

During the filming of the legendary 'Conan the Destroyer' (in which Wilton put on a masterful theatrical performance) it is said that he benched 500 lbs, much more than his co-star Arnold Shwartzengger.

Quite possibly stronger than the berlin wall.

Reply #139349 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

thats the thing myself and a few posters have actually seen many 60's , 70's, 80's and 90's games including many chamberlain games. i myself tend to stay away from nba dunk mix's etc.

that is why our posts are much more informed

Reply #139350 | Report this post


Undersized Pf  
Years ago

i suggest that people get a hold of wilts two auto-biographies, "WILT" and "Wilt chamberlain; just like every other 7 foot black millionaire who lives next door". there a real eye opener and good for a laugh (mostly at his sheer arrogance) but nonethless interesting.

Reply #139351 | Report this post


William 90  
Years ago

haha- what the shit are u talking about? dunk mixes etc..wtf? and posting non-stop does nothing to your argument. the point jules was making was that would wilt be able to dominate like he did back then today? because of player evolution. players are more skillful today then back then. skillful as in better scorers etc. whats this flash and dunking stuff got to do with anything? wtf!

Reply #139359 | Report this post


Dont give me the fact there was only a handful of footers. if thats true, yao ming should be getting 50 and 24.

i think we can all agree to one thing... horry is the worst 7 championship winner ever

Reply #139375 | Report this post


billo  
Years ago

Well, Yao is the best centre in the league right now so it clearly helps to be several inches taller than everyone else.

Reply #139417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ELG = Undersized PF.
Schizophrenia, Hoops SA style.

Reply #139427 | Report this post


jushezno  
Years ago

I've seen footage of Wilt dominating. His dominance wasn't a result of any particular skill, just that he was far more physically gifted than any who guarded him. In comparison with recent dominant centres (who have since caught up, now the same height, strength, speed) wilt looked a lot less coordinated. Nobody was as dominant in their era as wilt, but basketball has progressed in leaps and bounds since then.

Reply #139462 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

'jushezno'...wow - someone finally understands me :)

Reply #139608 | Report this post




 

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