No chance of seeing Jingles NBL for a while, drafted or not.

Isn't it his last year and he is automatically in the draft? I think he would take whatever he could get in Europe before he returned to the NBL.

I'm still hoping he gets drafted - as I said in another thread, it would be great to get two South Aussies drafted within a couple of years.

Unfortunately for him, after getting scouts enthusiastic about him during the physicals/ workouts in the US, he apparently shot poorly at the Reebok camp in Italy and lost a bit of confidence. According to Draft Express that has hurt his stock.

So he's got some work to do in the next few weeks, but if he can do some good individual workouts, he might still convince a team to use a late 2nd rounder on him.

Isaac you are right, its this year or bust for him. Got my fingers crossed - it would be good for Aussie basketball if he can get drafted and then go to Europe like Newley to get some more experience. Even the D League would help him develop a lot I think.

I said elsewhere before the Reebok camp (think it was a Mills thread), Ingles weren't actually doing as well as many think. He'll be late 2nd round if lucky.

His problem? Ingles soft-minded, when beaten on D/fouls, it affects him on the next possession.

Ingles has a few things that alot of players wish they had...Length and Height etc. If I was an NBA Team with a 2nd round pick I would take him. Teams can work on his strength, shooting and defence. However, teams can't develop length or height as it comes natural.
In essence, I think an NBA team should take a gamble on him. After a few years of working his ass off, I know he can become a really good player like a Tashayn Prince.

do you guys have any idea of the amount of talent with "length" but far more athletic than Ingles each year at the draft?

Here's a few prospects I've looked at over the last week or so:

-Earl Clark (G/F): 6ft9 220lbs

-Omri Casspi (G/F): 6ft8 220lbs (played extremely well in Israel, he was 6th man of the year in 2008 but projected as 2nd round)

-Derrick Brown (G): 6ft7 225lbs (extremely athletic and skilled but projected as 2nd round)

-Austin Daye (F): 6ft10 192lbs (more athletic and longer than Ingles with a 7ft2 wingspan!; similar skills set to Ingles but better defender)

Those are just a few guys which I had a chance to take a look at over the last week or so and there are plently more I haven't had a chance to assess too.

Sure the guys that you mentioned have length, but only probably Derrick Brown is faster than him. I think Ingles is not far off the athleticism of Tayshan Prince

I think you're either underestimating these guys (have you seen them play?) or overestimating Ingles. there's no way he's as athletic as Tayshaun to start with, and Austin and Earl is definitely faster than Ingles, while Omri is probably Ingles' speed but more polished.

you got to also keep in mind, these are just some of the players I came across with there are many more in the draft. Ingles' speed and athleticism seemed alright in Australia but not quite as spectacular here (even at the Dragons he weren't the most athletic guy).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to spoil the party but just stating a reality. I'd put my money on Mills and for a good reason. He's top 5 in this draft class as far as speed is concerned and that's a good reason for him to be drafted. What's so special about Joe? There are simply better options out there even in the 2nd round (eg. Omri and Derrick would be much better options)

In his trials he has been impressive enough, but it's the physical stuff that is letting him down.

His speed has been a problem, not a bonus and apparently his fat test has been less than positive.

I don't expect him to be drafted, but I'd love it if he was.

That said, the NBL is not even slightly on his radar. USA if possible....if not, next stop is Europe.

PS: I'll try draw up some of the combine results tomorrow for you.

Also, what about Ingles experience. Casspi has played professional before like Ingles. That gives him an advantage, plus the fact that he has played in the Olympics against Team USA among others. Sure College Basketball is a great system in developing future players. But if you look at a College Basketball teams schedule, you will see that probably only half of their games are against high-quality sides.

e.g. Look at Patty Mill's St. Mary's Gaels. Look at some of the wins they had last season: Bet Seattle by 31, Bet Vanguard by 28, Bet Pepperdine by 50, Bet Loyola Marymount by 25, Bet E.Washington by 20, Bet San Diego by 23, Bet CS Fullerton by 25. As you can see there were alot of games in their schedule that weren't that close and they played against some low-quality teams. With Ingles playing in the NBL, games were alot closer and he was coming out and playing teams that deserved to be in the league. Alot of games in college are non-conference no-contest games.
Therefore playing professional can be advantageous because you are playing high-quality teams week in week out.
I think NBA Coaches and Scouts read too much into the wrong stuff. They evaluate everything from a players bench-press to full court sprint. But they tend to forget about the players intangibles..His experience(international and in a pro-league), his attitude etc.

Look at Stephon Marbury..NBA Scouts did not consider the intangible factors, such as his attitude, and he became a cancerous assest to any team. That was an example of scouts and team personnel focussing too much on his nice handles or his good passing ability.

In conclusion, I understand Ingles is not as fast as alot of the players in the draft. But he may have better Basketball IQ, He may have a better attitude, He may have greater experience, He may have a greater work ethic. It's a shame that none of these things above can be tested and compared between players, like a players vertical leap or his time for a full-court sprint.

work ethic? I was talking to Austin after the workout 4 days ago. The kid is DETERMINED, that's just one kid and many works just as hard. International experience? it's great but NBA game's different, so senior international experience don't factor in that much in the draft. And the fact is many of these college kids would've made onto other country's national's squad so international experience really don't weigh in that much.

just because one college thrashes another doesn't mean they're not quality sides. what you learn from college experience aside but the quality of many college teams will no doubt be actually more superior to some NBL teams. *Note: typical college also practices and trains more regular than NBL team.

What coaches actually assess on? all the physical evaluation is only used as a guide, at the end of the day it's how somebody performs that we care about in the draft; Kevin Durant's couldn't even bench and many others drafted were only average in terms of athletic ability.

Even when you talk about work ethics, attitudes etc. I've been to Dragon's training, the kid does more talking than playing.

PS: we don't test full court sprint (it's 3/4 court)

Also, what about Stephon Marbury? as dumb as the guy may be he's had a successful NBA career.

2 Allstar Selection, 19.9ppg, 7.6apg, 4 playoff apearances as leading guard (4 not counting Boston). You don't get this resume by a bad working ethics and training attitudes. As bad as everything else goes, you still have Boston picking him up just shows you his ability as a player.

Love your insight and view LA Boy. Find your recent posts to be informative and very good reads.

Although in some areas I may disagree am always interested to hear what you say.

Let's be honest with ingles limited athleticism and strength he is going to need some super skills in other areas to be drafted AND actually play in the NBA. He needs to shoot the lights out or have an unbelievable handle or be an amazing passer. Unfortunately he isn't really any of these.

If you put yourself in the shoes of an NBA exec why would you draft him? He isn't young compared to other prospects, and his game hasn't developed over the last couple of years. He just doesn't seem to have much upside. Many people say you just picked him and he plays in europe for a couple of years and develops. Do you really think he is going to develop, wouldn't he have developed more from 20 to 22? Why will he develop from 22 - 24. I just don't see it happening. If i'm a GM and i'm picking early second round i'm looking for someone that has slipped from the first round that may be able to contribute straight away. If there isn't anyone i'm picking an 18 - 19 year old european that has upside and I can leave over their for 3 -5 years and bring over 21 - 25 yr old bracket.

I think it is a bit of a wate of time talking about Joe in relation to this. Anyway the NBA isn't the be all and end all. He may be able to make more money in europe like david anderson. There is nothing wrong with that.

If everyone is talking about Pat Mills skill set not being enought for the NBA then it is 100% Ingles doesn't have the complete package to make it to the next level.

You need more than a long range jump shot that is inconsistent to make it. He doesn't have a handle and zero moves to work at that level. In the NBL he can do all that cause he has the height and is quicker but not at the NBA level.

I see him having a good career overseas in Europe similar to Newely

my opinion is he will be back in the nbl but not with adelaide

If he was back in the NBL I would be very confident it would be Adelaide.

I think people underestimate Ingles ability. He developed significantly last year, just in areas he was deficient in, so you didn't see a big spike in his scoring etc. He has had the advantage of playing in a significantly higher standard competition than most of the other draft class, and a league that requires far more reading of the game than college, and that has shown through in the reports of his workouts thus far.

However, as someone pointed out, Joe isn't particularly mentally tough, and gets down on himself when he misses shots or gets beaten, and that is a big no-no in the cut-throat environment of draft camps/workouts.

No doubt Joe has the ability to be a second round pick, but an average camp in Italy might hurt him.