sure did! Warren is like AI.....a 2 guard in a PG body.

Shows the value in Marty signing Crosswell (a decent off-season signing) whether you want to give him that credit or not. From memory Crosswell was almost leading the league in assists when he went down. Whether the intention was to start him or not, the flexibility was there.

Warren: 15.4pts, 3.3 assists
Shannon: 9.6pts, 4.4 assists

A PG doesn't need to just deal out assists. You have to factor in that scoring difference too. Given similar shooting percentages (Warren's FG% is 1% better) and neither having a distinct advantage in W-L record, what would you prefer - 1.1 APG or 5.8 PPG?

I know you're no fan of Warren's, but raising Eddie Shannon is not a great argument against him.

Good analysis!

Another interesting stat I have found is that when Weigh has had 6 foul shots or more we have won every game (4 of our 5 games). This shows when he is actually aggressive we are in a better chance to win.

I'm not a Shannon fan, just pointing out Warren isn't a real upgrade over him (besides a few points) and no-one wanted Shannon back.

Foot injury probably hampers him being aggressive.

Well it should hamper the amount of minutes he gets then.

its not a few points forcey its around 65% more per game

looks a big upgrade to me

Pre crossy post crossy, 6ers are a losing team. So this is all really a waste of breaking down stats imo

forcey, some aren't rushing to demand Warren back. There's a difference between not retaining and sacking mid-season.

Well "anonymous", I guess we better race to get his signature seeing he's been better than most of his team mates.

Sometimes, great players need other great players around them to be at their best. If his stats have gone down without Crossy, it could be something as simple as him just putting more pressure on himself that upsets his natural game.

How have everyone else's stats gone? If Warren's stats are down by say 10%, is the rest of the team the same?

His minutes wouldda gone up.
A young guy leading our club , for all the effort it demands with Weigh injured, bartlett just arrived,
I expected it to happen , like Tyndale.

Bruce was 15 n 5 and Holmes has improved every aspect of his game - they mentioned on TV.

All- I'm just trying to write something a little more constructive than "Adelaide are crap" or "Clarke is rubbish".

Warren has had his moments but I don't think he's a great fit for our league. We need a point man and you can't play a 5"10 at SG unless he's dominant on both ends.

"Thomo"- yes, he's a better scorer than Shannon but they are pretty similar elsewhere, Shannon was a better passer. I'm not arguing we should have kept Shannon (far from it), just that Warren's output has only been slightly above Shannon's.

Kobe24- it's just interesting how much Crosswell meant to the team and the burden it's put on Warren. I'll run some other numbers on how it's affected the rest of the guys and run on my blog tomorrow.

Isaac- it may seem rash but I think the team should make a change. Might be harsh but jobs are on the line, fans are getting impatient and if he's unlikely to return I'd love to see us try someone else. Rob Rose was a mid-season pickup and look what he did for the Magic. There's no way the 36ers can put out Crosswell and Warren as our starting guards in 2012-2013.

Jack Toft- fair point and a lot of his numbers are down because he's forced to throw up some bad shots but I would have loved to seen his assists rise by 2-3 and his scoring dip slightly. Both have gone down. Like I said will look at more numbers and run on my blog tomorrow.

Warren is a very good player who will only get better. Of course some of his stats have dropped off since Crosswell was injured - other teams can focus more on him.

What's impressed me is his turnovers have dropped and assists have held steady since Crossy got injured - his assist:turnover ratio is 2:1 whereas it was 1:1 with Crossy.

He is in a shooting rut but this guy is one of the best Div 1 college scorers ever to come to the NBL - I would persist with him. Simpson has also dropped off in recent games.

As I said in another thread, Adelaide cant expect imports to carry the load, imports at other teams dont do it because the league is simply too deep and too good defensively for that these days.

Out of interest, there are five imports in the NBL's top ten scorers, two are from Adelaide. There are two imports in the top 10 rebounders and one is Simpson. There are four imports in the top 10 assists, one is Warren. There are two imports in the top 10 blocks, one is Simpson.

Adelaide has major issues with their defence and finishing close games. They also have two very good young imports who were genuine stars at Div 1 colleges.

Rather than toss them out because the team is struggling, I would 1) re-sign them 2) work hard on their and the other players’ weaknesses 3) recruit two local players to replace Ballinger and Herbert or Ng who can fill areas of weakness.

forcey, the club hasn't paid up to replace Ballinger, right? They aren't rushing to throw money away. If they cut Warren, they'd need to pay out his contract (it's after probation, and he's not significantly underperforming). That would be money spent this season (not going to make a finals run from here) that could be better spent on a season where we are in a position to challenge.

'Several Seasons In Hell' - Rimbaud.

As requested , here's the rest of the starters numbers with and without Crosswell, as well as Ng and Creek. Everyone's scoring and FG% has dropped with Crosswell out and Warren running the team.

http://www.36reasons.net/2012/01/crosswell-effect.html

Hopefully I'll say this for the last time, I get his pedigree and that he's not the worst import in the league, but we need a bigger, better defensive, pass-first PG who can lead a team. His skills set doesn't match our needs.


Paul- it's no big deal that's he's one of the top assist men for imports, as there are only 3 import point guards who have made it to rd 17. Also his assists are down as are his turnovers. So essentially he's creating less scoring opportunities while not coughing the ball up as much. Kind of cancel each other out.

Hang on Forcey, that's not true at all. Warren’s assists have gone from 3.3 to 3.2, which is holding steady. His turnovers have gone from 3.1 to 1.4, which is a huge drop. His assist to turnover therefore has improved from a poor 1.1 to an excellent 2.3.

Looking at your imports for a solution to the problem is missing the point.

Not sure how you're running your numbers Paul but here's how I got mine.

Gathered stats from 8 full games he's played with Crosswell (Rd 1, Rd 4-10). Counted games in rounds 2-3 and 11 onwards as games without (Crosswell got injured just after halftime of Rd 11 game so counted this as a "without" game).

In 8 games with he got 31 assists and 25 turnovers (1.24)
In 8 games without he got 21 assists and 16 turnovers (1.31)

How did you get your numbers?

Name a year when every team had an import as good as Julius Hodge. And I dont remember his teams doing all that well.

Personally, Id take Cedric Jackson or Kevin Lisch over Hodge any day of the week.

I did post-Croswell numbers rather than without-Crosswell numbers, if that makes sense? So the last five games - 16 assists and 7 turnovers.

I noticed you didnt answer my question. Anyway, that's a different debate.

The reality - as opposed to the opinion - is the Sixers brought in an SEC First Teamer and a WCC First Teamer. While they have performed pretty well, they cant carry the team and they require better local talent around them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I wouldn't release Warren. In fact if I were in charge of the 36ers he would be one of four players that I'd be looking at keeping beyond this season along with DJ, Simpson and Creek.

Its a pity that Warren isn't a better defender though, or taller than 5'10" because he'd make a great SG IMO.