Classics
Years ago

2012 Classics - Predictions & Discussion (MSAC)

U12 Boys
Seems like a couple of teams in Vic are a fair way ahead of the rest, while 1 in SA is well ahead of others. A couple of Vic teams came to Easter to give us a guide of where to expect the SA teams to come.

SA predictions: Forestville 1-4, Sturt & Woodville 9-12, Southern 13-16.

Top 4: Bulleen, Hawthorn, Kilsyth, Forestville.

U12 Girls
A couple of teams again in Vic seemingly a fair way ahead of the rest, but Forestville in January took it right to them.

SA Predictions: Forestville 1-4, Sturt & West 9-12, Eastern 13-16

Top 4: Knox, Bulleen, Forestville, Melbourne with Norths from Sydney a chance too.

U14 Boys
After Easter it appears there's a fair margin between the Vic & SA teams in this grade. Norwood made the final but 1) lost it by 35 & 2) only beat 1 Vic team en route to the GF, which was McKinnon (who didn't qualify for Classics).

SA Predictions: Norwood & Southern 9-12, Centrals & Sturt 13-16

Top 4: Dandenong, Melbourne, Hills, Knox

U14 Girls
Forestville have had some success already so far in tournaments with a win in January & runner up at Easter. Gap between SA & Vic teams seems much closer in this grade.

SA Predictions: Forestville 1-4, Sturt 5-8, Centrals & Southern 9-12

Top 4: Melbourne, Forestville, Hawthorn, North Bears.

Dandenong predictions to follow later. Feel free to post your thoughts, just be sure not to mention specific players.

Topic #28443 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

what about under 18s and 16s?

Reply #364776 | Report this post


JV Coach  
Years ago

The thread title has (MSAC) in it, so its focused just on the 12's and 14's. 16's and 18's are at Dandenong

Reply #364812 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

cant wait for the dandenong predictions

Reply #364817 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think on U14 boys centrals will finish higher than Southern and Nirwood are not travelling too well at the moment. Take one good player out of that team and they are back with the pack

Reply #364824 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

North u16 girls should finish top 4 at Dandenong

Reply #364825 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

the u14g eagles - did really well at dandenong earlier this year and easter - they should medal

Reply #364832 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

no sa team in u16g will finish in top 4 - weakest i have seen the comp for years.

Reply #364833 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

take your thermals - looks like a good old fashioned melbourne winter weekend

Reply #364835 | Report this post


J-MAC  
Years ago

12 Girls from Mildura are very good this year - could be a smokey

Reply #364839 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dandenong

U/16 Boys - Melb to win, One would suggest DV if injuries do not inhibit, with City of Sydney a big chance

U/16 Girls - Melb vs Knox, Melb to win

U/18 Boys - Knox to win over Waverley, DV or Bulleen to make up numbers with Sturt

U/18 Girls - No idea !!!

Reply #364843 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Centrals just beat Southern at Southern by 30 on Friday so why would they be ranked lower?

Also Centrals second and Southern fifth at the moment.

Reply #364873 | Report this post


Classics  
Years ago

Same reason Sturt are top of Winter season & came 4th at state champs I guess.

Having said that, I was unaware of their Friday result.

Happy to be proven wrong... just one man's thoughts!

Reply #364879 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sturt's Under 12 boys should do well at Classics considering they've been practising their zone for the past 6 months.

Reply #364903 | Report this post


Frank the tank  
Years ago

J-Mac why do you think Mildura will be a smokey?

Reply #364910 | Report this post


Frank the tank  
Years ago

J-Mac why do you think Mildura will be a smokey?

Reply #364911 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

MILDURA

Reply #364925 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

MILDURA HAVE PRODUCED FIRST CLASS PLAYERS AND TEAMS - BUT HAS THIS TEAM BEEN UP AGAINST VIC METRO / SA DIV 1 / SYDNEY TEAMS ?

Reply #364926 | Report this post


Joker  
Years ago

Mildura have one very talented player.
I think Frankston beat them in the GF at the Bendigo tournament.
They will be no match for KNOX or BULLEEN.

Reply #364960 | Report this post


J-MAC  
Years ago

They lost by a couple of points to Melbourne Tigers early in the season but are alot better now.
Just saying they may be one of those teams that may cause an upset.

Reply #364992 | Report this post


BB  
Years ago

Eltham boys have qualified for Under 14 Nations but you don't see them making the top 4?

I think in the under 14 boys that Dandenong will win it and be too strong for anybody else.

Top 3 - Dandenong, Melbourne, Eltham

Reply #365017 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Apparently Eltham U14s have a couple of kids big enough to play U16s. Don't know if they can play but if it's true, they'll be tough.
I saw Dandenong when we were over for the Eltham/Dandenong tournament in January. They were impressive then and have had time to develop with Darren Perry coaching. I'll be happy if we get within 20 of them.

Reply #365043 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How big does 'big enough to play u16s' mean, though? Sutherland had that 6'7" kid last year... a couple of those in the same team would be something to worry about. Big difference between 'big' for u16s' and 'big enough.'

Reply #365080 | Report this post


J-MAC  
Years ago

I think one of those kids drove his own car to the game. LOL

Reply #365130 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i hear under 14 north girls are likely to walk away with a gold medal due to their excellent coach, he is known for his quick whit and subbing ability basing his coaching philosophy on Phil jackson likes to run the triangle offence while showing no mercy on the opposition

Reply #365264 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok...

I am the Norths coach...

I can categorically deny the above post.

Very funny whoever posted that.

Reply #365387 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The above post is the assistant coach he is the assistant for a reason because he isn't ruthless like me we are taking the gold medal !!!!!!

Reply #365446 | Report this post


Joker  
Years ago

Re: U/12 GIRLS RESULTS

Gold - Bulleen
Silver - Melbourne
Bronze - Knox

Dandenong
Forestville
Frankston
Werribee
Altona
Mildura
West Adelaide
Nunawading
Sydney
North Suburbs
Eastern Mavericks
Sturt
Sutherland

Reply #365713 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

U14 Girls Results

Gold-Bulleen
Silver-Melbourne
Bronze-Sturt

Dandenong
Knox
Forestville
Centrals
Sandringham
Altona
Hawthorn
Northern Suburbs
Geelong
ACT
Southern Tigers
Ballarat
Sydney

U14 Boys

Gold-Dandenong
Silver-Nunawading
Bronze-Melbourne

Eltham
Hills
Knox
Geelong
ACT
Whittlesea
Bulleen
Centrals
Norwood
Sturt
Southern
Sutherland
Sydney

Reply #365788 | Report this post


J-MAC  
Years ago

Looks like the Melbourne teams still have the edge over the S.A teams at the moment. Well done to all

Reply #365789 | Report this post


The Sports Guys  
Years ago

Looks like SA did quite well in the U14 girls section.

Sturt lost to eventual Gold medal winners Bulleen by 10 in their Semi. And even with 2 minutes to go they made a run back into the game.

Forestville unlucky to lose to Sturt in their quarter final after taking the lead in the last minute. They might have gone into the GF or even won it.

Centrals performing very well for a creditable 7th, which I would assume is a club best result. Happy to be proved wrong. And they could make some noise at Nationals.

Other grades at MSAC, not so good by SA.

Reply #365796 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

u14 Boys a concern - no SA team in top 10. Southern finishing ahead only of two Sydney sides that will not be at Nationals. Centrals looked better than their 11th place suggested, but Norwood and Southern could be in real trouble come October.

Reply #365800 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Surely Norwood had some injury or illness concerns to lose to Centrals in their final game to give Centrals the throne of being top performer in U 14 boys

Reply #365802 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Which Victorian Under 14 Girls teams have qualified for Nationals.

I heard when in Melbourne Bulleen failed to qualify.

Can that be true?

Reply #365803 | Report this post


VJBL  
Years ago

That is true, the calssics winner will not attend nationals.

Top 2 treams from each pool after the first round attend. (Bulleen finished 3rd in their pool)

So

Melbourne
Knox
Dandenong
Hawthorn

will attend with

Geelong apparently attending as the Vic country slot by all accounts. I would have thought Ballarat was the better of the country teams na dam unsure as to why they are not attending.

Reply #365806 | Report this post


Barry  
Years ago

U14 girls assessment spot on , SA teams results couldve gone either way- eagles definitely dissapointing at 6th, and you would definitely expect a better performance at nationals, while sturt performed well, unlucky they met in quarters !! Centrals were up and down but a top 8 finish a great result and were knocked out of quarters by dandenong who knocked down 24 Pts from 3 pt territory

Reply #365821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You need to add in Southern Tigers Under 14 Girls effort was first class even though they finished well down the ladder.

Unlucky to have Bulleen (1st) and Dandenong (4th) in their pool. Lost to Dandenong in OT and it took a buzzer betaer from halfway for Dandenong to force OT.

They were up against Bulleen at the half and in the game until the last few minutes and lost to Hawthorn (Nationals qualifier)by 5 after giving them an 18 point head start.

This coupled with the other 3 SA teams results means SA could have a very good showing at Nationals.

Reply #365869 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

I think all 14 girls teams will do well at Clubs.

They wont get caught out playing against a zone so Melbourne clubs will have to play one on one "D"

Will be a interesting tournament....

Reply #365892 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So can someone explain to me why we have the differences in approach in allowing a zone in classics and Victoria but not in SA or for nationals in U 14's.

I know the argument of developing better defensive skills but is this really the case. Do Victorioan teams fall in a hole at the nationals because they can't zone. Is the development of these players compromised when they are older. Vic still win games! Do these Vic players not develop nationally or internationally because they were allowed to use zone defence in U14's.

Perhaps we need a rethink and expose all players to all areas of baketball sooner rather than later.

Reply #365896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You might want to look at last couple of years results for boys.

2 Vic teams who performed well during the year, bombed out badly because they couldnt play man to man defemce at nationals.

It is a Basketball Australia directive.

Reply #365903 | Report this post


Barry  
Years ago

Who are we kidding ,zones are used extensively in junior basketball in SA and little is ever done about it by refs !!!! The vics are simply bigger, stronger and more skillful than us zone or no zone the will dominate clubs !!!

Reply #365905 | Report this post


Joker  
Years ago

Forestville U/12 girls only won a couple of their games because they stood in the key like trees.
This is not good development for juniors and they will be found wanting in the older age groups. I think the Classic should be a NO ZONE tournament for U/12 & U/14 age groups.

Reply #365906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Geelong u14 boys a great example of why zones should not be allowed in u14s. Played zone all tournament, no problem with that if it's active and based on sound man principles, but their selections are clearly all about finding the biggest kids they can and clogging the key. One of their players needs to shave on a daily basis - he might be 6'3" now, but he's not going to grow another inch and he's not a skilled basketball player. I'm sure there's a 5'6" kid in Geelong who missed the team this year but will ultimately end up 6'6" and a much better player. When the ability to play zone results in short-sighted selections, it's a problem!

Likewise Altona won VC last year but could only muster 13th at Nationals. The zone forces problem solving by coaches, not players, and does nothing to develop individual or team defensive skills in u14s and below.

Reply #365909 | Report this post


agree with above, both Forestville u12 and u14 girls play zone in SA.
Very short sighted development of kids by the lazy coaches who instruct them to do it. Development is out the window and the big picture for the kids is lost.
I guess though it satisfies the coaches egos and most probably the parents as well because they are winning.
I know where I would rather my kids playing - a club that has development and the big picture in its sights.
Lets hope that it is more policed by the powers, but then again probably not because they are the powers!!

Reply #365912 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

interesting debate now
Zone or not to Zone?

Seen Sturt U14 girls throw a 2-3 zone at Forestville in their Q/Final and it worked.
Seen lots of teams play zones in local Associations without meaning too. Either kids havent been taught properly or kids get tired and dont react like they should.
The "mercy rule"(played alot in local association) is a self destruct nothing but zone defence.
Should the Vics have to play by BA rule? IMO yes.
Do we need to address it(zone) as a whole? yes, again IMO.
issues of u14's transition into u16's and playing against zones needs to be addressed as well.
Sometimes association/clubs just dont have enough manpower to enforce such policies.
Thoughts

Reply #365913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Nothing wrong with zone defense! The idea of lazy defense and coaching is absolutely absurd! If played correctly, defenders should work harder in a zone to defend their area! Don't hate on the zone...instead work on your shooting! A good shooter will destroy any zone defense!!!

Reply #365915 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In juniors a zone played all game, is ridiculous. A zone used to change tempo or mix things up is good idea. Wiping out the use of a zone completely is penalising good coaches who use it properly and effectively. I do see where the problem lies as the ordinary coaches out weigh the good ones.

A funny debate though considering the only way the boomers will ever beat the yanks at an Olympics is in a zone.

Reply #365916 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who is the bad coach if your team can't defeat a zone????

Reply #365917 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

Same person Issac ^^^^^?

You do know i was talking about u12's and 14's dont you anonymous.
Good to change the tempo in a u12's game (um that is flat out all game?)
Boomers beat the yanks playing a zone? good luck with that wisdom

Reply #365921 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah great point - that Durant guy would really struggle against an Aus zone...

What about some kind of rule along the lines of man to man has to be played on Friday nights, as Fridays are about development, however zones are legal in tournaments as they are for winning.

The counter is that then you wouldn't get to practice vs a zone in game pre tourney. But it'd be a way to expose 12s/14s to zones without them having to play them week after week.

Reply #365922 | Report this post


Joker  
Years ago

The idea of U/12s trying to shoot over a zone offence all game is ridiculous. The coach of this team is just playing for the W and not the development of the kids.
At our club there is a NO ZONE rule. This is enforced by our junior development coaches.
Hopefully they will become better players as they get older.

Reply #365923 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#917- the "bad coaches" are the ones who play zone all game every game just to get a win which is not teaching the kids anything.

Showtime- you must coach one of those Teams that finished last over the weekend. The teams that play only fast break basketball in 12's then struggle to adjust to the different style in 14's. So if you can encourage kids to play in the half court, it's better for them.

Showtime &922- I'm not saying we will beat them in a zone, but if you've ever watched international basketball, the only defense that ever stops the bleeding of US scoring is a zone. If you think we could match up man to man and have a chance of not being humiliated.....well luckily you only coach under 12's.

Reply #365930 | Report this post


Phobos  
Years ago

You do know that the no zone rule is only for u14 and below dont you?

Because if kids can get taught good stance and man to man proinciples at this age it is much easier for them to play a good zone at higher ages.

And that at U14 and below levels it is much more difficult to perimeter shoot teams out of a zone because kids arent big or strong enough to shoot from the perimeter as well.

Which is the reason it is successful at this age. And those teams that run it exclusively tend to have players that fail to make representative teams and therefore are never good enough to compete against international level players.

If all Australian juniors only ever played zone defence from U12's up we would never compete at anyting internationally.

Reply #365939 | Report this post


Victeams  
Years ago

What if the zone rule is only for the first half? This means that when the game is there to be won 'man on man'will win the game? KIds develop at different ages. Usually bigger kids are a little slower at first, but may only be 6 ft when older and must know more. Too much zone cannot help!

Reply #365949 | Report this post


Temerity  
Years ago

Nunawading played zone in the 12 boys final for two quarters but hawthorn were too good.

Reply #366051 | Report this post


Latrentis  
Years ago

I've seen an U12's coach tell his point to stand and dribble the ball (between 3 point line and half court) for however long he wants to. Since there is no shot clock in U12s it works a treat but only if you are up. One ref tried to call a delay of game but got some 'education' from the coach and the other team stopped playing zone!
I don't like a zone all the time as it teaches lazy defence, but it is quite effective in the younger age groups.

Reply #366052 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How about the success Hills Hornets have had on the boys' side in the last couple of years as an argument against zone? Silver and gold at Club Champs without a top-4 placing at Classic in either year. Do they really overtake that many Victorian teams between June and October, or are their results at Classic just deflated when they struggle against zones? The fact that they had no problem medalling in 16's this year certainly seems to suggest that once the zone is more familiar, their results are more in line with their talent level.

Reply #366194 | Report this post




 

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