Auntie
Years ago

Classic Cheating

Last night my nephew was involved in a qualifying match for the Classic in U14's between Nunawading and Dandenong 2 both teams finished 4th in there respective pools winner gets a bid to the classic. Nuna won the game by 3pts. Nunawading played the match with a player they took from their 16-1's team. The player is young enough to play in under 14's but has never played with this team to this point. He was clearly the best player on the floor and brought in as insurance, and in no way would they have won without his contributions. I personally feel this shows a lack of integrity by them and feel bad for my nephews team as they had to play with only 8 due to injury and sickness but they played with the same players that got them there. So I pose the question is this fair or foul

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music maestro  
Years ago

fair - it is like a V8 on the road vrs a 4 cyl.

or a 190cm junior vrs 130cm

fact of the system

not much you can do about it.

from my experience most clubs will do that from juniors to seniors.

our team had something similar - the other clubs first team had a bye so they dropped a majority of the team and they won - none of them have played in that grade since and we a L against the bottom team.

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D4444  
Years ago

Most comps have qualifying rules for finals etc to avoid this situation but in a qualifier for the Classic I guess the organisers don't care who plays.

The coach/players of the cheating team must feel so proud of their achievement.

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Rick  
Years ago

Not Cheating! What you are saying is you should penalise a player who happens to be good enough to play above his age group and takes that opportunity. The team should be able to play their best (eligible) players when they wish. It was obviously a close game so it is not as if they played him to destroy the opposition.

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Rick  
Years ago

*Unless the rules of the competition specify otherwise.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Its cheating if they broke the rules, its smart management if it is allowed.

Simple.

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VP  
Years ago

If entry to the Classic is based on VJC competition placings after 9 rounds then you would expect the VJBL Player Movement Rules would apply for any Challenge games:

3.5.2 Any player, who plays one (1) or more games with a team during Grading Phase Two, shall not be
eligible to change teams during Grading Phase Two or the Championship phase. Approval to transfer after
the player has competed in Grading Phase Two will be granted only in exceptional circumstances.

If the player concerned has never played in the Nunawading U14 Team throughout the Grading Phase 2 or Championship Phase then I believe there is a case to answer.

Be interested to hear how VJBL management could possibly justify approval of this.

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Latrentis  
Years ago

If they got a clearance through VJBL (which I am sure they would have) then it is not cheating. This happens all the time in junior footy.
Many teams bring up players from their 2s to fill in for teams that make the Classic/Nationals due to injuries etc.
Obviously the kid is pretty good to be playing up an age group.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If you look at the player stats for that game you will see that all of the players are regular members of the team. The rules are that you can take a lower age player into a older team for two games only. This is what might have been done. Those players can then play in both teams on the same night.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If he hasn't played a game for the 14s this season then I don't think he should be allowed to play in the qualifier.

It's probably allowed though. Great job by the nunawading coach, wins a title in 2012 playing nothing but zone, then pulls this.....classy!

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COLLEGEIDEA  
Years ago

This boy decided to play up in U16s because he thought the nunawading team in 14s were horrible. If he then came down to u14s and intends to play in the classic then that is a joke. Against all principles of VJBL competition.

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been around  
Years ago

it is within the boundaries of by laws - so winners can laugh.... losers can please themselves....

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So you lost an U/14 game to an U/14 player who plays for Nunawading?
Typical Dandenong sook.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

^ agree with that. Silver lining is Dandenong will poach the kid next year.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Dandanong seem to think they have an entitlement to winning, just look at their FB page, they only ever report their wins and carry on like it was a GF. Bunch of sooks, they got beaten and within the rules so suck it up.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty sure they report their losses too mate. Even if you take a look at the last round of SEABL results. It clearly states the women lost to Ballarat.

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Bunny  
Years ago

Dont understand all the Fuss! If the player is registered with that team - has decided to play up an age group to keep inproving his game - has Club and VJBL OK - then whats the arguement!

I would be more asking the question of why a spot is left open for a country team (winner of Country Cup) then get a second chance using the metro competition?
Esp[ecially as the year the team finished outsid the top 4 in their pool??

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HO  
Years ago

Bunny, why is it a question about Country? What is wrong with country teams also qualifying through VJBL? which is not metro btw.

Not sure I get it. If Country have a team like Moe, who won this years Country Under 14 Girls but don't play in VJBL, and then another country team makes Classic through VJBL - what is the problem?

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Bunny  
Years ago

HO - Nothing worng with the scenario you put forward. But why should a country team get to double dip into both competitions to qualify for the Classic and Under 14 Nationals thru Country Cup (maybe not make it) but thats ok we will go play VJBL and try to qualify that way? Agree the best teams should represent Vic - but just not a level playing field in terms of chances to qualify?

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HO  
Years ago

But if you want to allow for the scenario I presented, then you have to do it this way. My understanding btw is if a country team qualifies through VJBL and also wins Country champs, then the second placed country team does not get the Classic position.

Why do they do it? I think largely because Country Victorian basketball is a very large body, someone told me recently bigger than SA, WA, Qld etc, and deserve a place - but it is extremely difficult for many country teams to practically play in VJBL.

I reckon its a positive.

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doctor Basketball  
Years ago

I believe the word would be "integrity".......If the player is good enough to play U16 and has been selected for that team then that is where he should play - especially if that is the choice that has been made by the player, parents and coaches.

Its in poor taste to bring him into the team to help them get over the line for 1 game.....Not against the rules but definitely poor taste.

The issue that concerns me more would be bringing in this player for a game, takes court time away from other players from this team....."good job coach that will build the other players confidence"

At some point in time you would like coaches in Victoria to stop having pissing contests with each other every week and start doing a better job of developing the kids and looking after their players.....Pick your teams - good bad or indifferent coach them up and give them a great basketball experience that will help them fall in love with game......

stop poaching talent, bending the rules (bringing players down, playing zone in U12) and looking at the scoreboard for confirmation you have done a good job.......Heres a tip - ITS KIDS BASKETBALL NO BODY CARES HOW WELL YOU THINK YOU CAN COACH......Parents want wins - YES - but parents want to see their kids get better have fun and learn and develop a passion for basketball....

Coaches challenge yourselves play man to man, run a free flowing motion where all players are interchangeable forcing the biggest kid to dribble and shoot and simply teach every kid to dribble pass and shoot and understand the game - grow their basketball brains!!!!!!

PLEASE TEACH OUR KIDS TO SHOOT OMG I HAVE NEVER SEEN SO MANY BROKEN JUMP SHOTS IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Nice off-topic rant Dr B. "Poor taste" is your way of putting "I don't like the way they played by the rules". You sook.

As for the other players in this team (who lose a little bit of court time for ONE game), you don't think getting to play SIX games this weekend, all against quality teams, will not help their development? Even if they play a little less because of another player (assuming he plays this weekend too)?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

was the coach (who obviously thinks about themselves too much) from sturt originally?

Morals people Morals.

Not sure whether that exists.

By the way, totally agree with doctor basketball.

Those who don't see it this way only have their own agendas at the fore front.

Probably trying to compensate for their own short comings as well.

Well said Dr

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anon  
Years ago

Totall agree Doctor, watch all the chest pumping by the coaches when their U/12s win on the scoreboard by standing in the key like trees. We came up against this last year (Forestville), it is laughable.

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triton84  
Years ago

this is just funny

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triton84  
Years ago

I have just read this hole blog and the only sense I can get out of it is there are far to many adults beating there chest and firing salvos regarding junior basketball yes there are rules I presume that nunawading went through the correct channels to check these rules . vjbl say its ok then that's that non of the children on either team have done anything wrong only the parents with this crazy banter . ITS A TOURNAMENT , NOT LIFE AND DEATH . dandynong I presume is playing the nunawading tournament and nunawading is at the classic period . some great comments from some people and some very aggressive coments from others , would you speak this way face to face I know I can love the game not the idiots

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The nasty comments are generally from the represetatives of the sore losers, who lost a game to a team that played by the rules, and are now just having a massive sook about it.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Junior Basketball, serious business...

Walk around stadiums every friday night and watch Coaches going off their heads, getting techs, abusing their players.
All the sheep stations on the line, to most of these coaches this is their NBL gig.

Perspective is lost even at Rep level i think sometimes.



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doctor Basketball  
Years ago

Thanks for making my point whoever wrote this little comment below - your inability to see past the point of your nose is almost funny....almost......because its not funny when people like you even talk about basketball.....

"As for the other players in this team (who lose a little bit of court time for ONE game), you don't think getting to play SIX games this weekend, all against quality teams, will not help their development? Even if they play a little less because of another player (assuming he plays this weekend too)?"

No i don't think loosing court time is ok in this situation not ever......Like i said coaches need to coach it up with the team that was originally picked.....If they come up short that is all part of the growth and DEVELOPMENT of a players and coaches....Scooting further down the bench for 6 games is not cool.....

So answer me this question because clearly it is all figured out.......the kid who only plays 5-8 minutes a game as the 10th guy off the bench what happens to his minutes? should he and his parents be stoked about playing what 2-3 minutes or even worse not play at all? I guess as long as they win then they should be happy......But what if they lose? hmmmmmmmm all for nothing i guess.......

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Anonymous  
Years ago

doctor basketball.

why would a player be getting 5-8 minutes in the first place? You are making an assumption there.

coach might play them all even minutes...

or might player some players more minutes in game they are winning and losing by 10 or more...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

10 suiting up in junior Basketball is rediculous, even at rep level.
There simply isnt enough mins in a game to get 8 on properly elt alone 9 or 10.
Clubs stack 10 into every team for 1 reason only... $$$$$$$$$$$$

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Games at rep level are fully timed games.

Often had 3 or 4 players foul out, so you need a minimum of 9...

And if you have 10 players who are all capable, you can play them all...

Plus you cant bring players up teams so if you get injuries or sickness , you can get into trouble...

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doctor Basketball  
Years ago

I strongly disagree with not being able to play 10 players.........that right there is development and picking the right players for the level of competition and coaching......will every player play equally i would hope not but absolutely a player might be getting 5-8 minutes a game.......

Anyway you spin this it is taking another kids court time and it seems to be a situation that has clearly left a sour taste in peoples mouths......

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Doctor, how much more development would kids get in a 9 or even 8 man rotation?
VC is timed but it's only 8 min qtrs, less than SEABL/BigV games and they struggle to go past 8 for decent court time.
Coaching ego plays a part in long benches too.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

dr B losing credibility fast!

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Vital  
Years ago

The Nunawading team in question had an injured player and within the rules brought in a bottom bottom age under 16/1 player to fill the void.
Everything was done above board and with the approval of the VJBL.
The boy who was asked to fill in for the one game to help out his club is not playing at the Classic, he is playing at the Spectres tournament with his under 16 team. The injured under 14 player will play if he is able too. So no one is losing out on court time etc.
Lets just remember that the Spectres and the player concerned have done nothing wrong here. Rules are there for a reason and the rules were abided by.

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doctor Basketball  
Years ago

Credibility hahahaha......You get plenty of development in small amounts of court time if you are given positive minutes in all types of game situations.......

I have never argued the rules of it.....I gave them the benefit of the doubt but again my problem is bringing in another player when it would have provided a perfect opportunity for the rest of the time to step up and fill the void the other player has left in his absence.....

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Apparently the Dandenong coach (auntie?) made a huge fuss out of this too which is od considering he's also the D League coach at Nunawading.
Something smells a bit fishy here.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

you guys are idiots with a capital I!

Candy Crush Level 65 is waiting for you!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The doctor has failed...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting to follow this thread all the way through. Firstly congratulations should go Dandenong 2 for even making an elimination game to get to the classic. It is very difficult for a second team to get that far. There was no second teams in the boys competition for any age group.

Only one club, Bulleen, managed to get second team into the classic, and that was girls 16-2 and well done to them. (The let's face it it's Bulleen girls and who cares about them)

But back to Nunawading reportedly finished fourth behind Dandenong - first, Altona – second and Kilsyth – third.
So did Nunawading do the right thing, obviously debatable. However, would most clubs do the same, most likely.

Would your club bring in a replacement player to replace an injured player for a qualifying game? You will properly find that most would.

Would Dandenong 2 have done well in the classic, probably. Would they have made finals, probably not.

However, a nice question would be "Who will win the next clash between Dandenong 2 and Nunawading?"

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Whohar  
Years ago

Well, what an interesting read. It appears Dandenong lost to Nunawading.
Dandenong lost a the game to Nunawading and instead of losing gracefully and taking some learnings from the game and making some improvements at training you take to social media. Let me ask, what does that teach the kids?
Junior sport is as much about winning as it is about losing. I heard Dandenong were up by as much as 20 points through the game, even with this so called super star playing for Nunawading. If that's the case, how did Dandenong blow such a demanding lead.
Now there's a good question!
So much whinging and complaining about one player.
Here's a new flash, no team wins with one player, it takes a team.
I also hear that Dandenong has tried to poach this kid to play for them? Don't the coaches sign a code of conduct which includes no poaching?
Is Dandenong really taking the high moral ground on this one?
Auntie, get a life and appreciate the game and stop looking for excuses. I heard both teams played well and as spectators all should appreciate the skill the young boys display.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Whoar well said!
I understand now why this kid didnt want to play for Dandenong Rangers.
Poor attitude! Poor coaching!

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