Talias
Years ago

SEABL sides.

With the season only a couple months away lets talk about whos hot and whos not.

Topics for discussion:

1. Who, so far has the best import pairing.
2. Who has the best back court so far (aussie players)
3. Who has the best front court so far (aussie players)
4. Which teams do we think will be top 4 in both conferences come finals time?
5. Rank the top 5 players/players to look out for:

PG SG/SF. PF/C

Topic #33535 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

HOw about we wait until everyone has a full side, including imports.

Reply #453392 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Import spots to be filled:
1 x Hobart
2 X Sandy
2 x Knox
Mt Gambier maybe 1 but doubtful
1 x Canberra

Did i miss any?

Reply #453394 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ballarat 1. Hansen will not be returning.

Reply #453400 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Supercats seem to have again set themselves up for a strong showing in 2014.

Reply #453420 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What about the east and south conference champs from last year, any news on who they have for 2014?

Reply #453446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Decided to do some of my own research on pioneers, they have announced signing of brad hill today, he joins Tom daly, Lucas blicavs, matt Sutton and new import Damian Johnson and say more signings in coing days, looks like they are coming together.

Reply #453458 | Report this post


Snowy  
Years ago

Marcus Bellchambers to the Geelong Supercats.

Reply #453473 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

@ Happy Days - Knox have filled import slots

Haven't heard much on Imports or restricted players from: Sandy, Nunawading, Brissy or Kilsyth.

Reply #453484 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

Kilsyth signed American Dain Swetella last November - http://www.seabl.com.au/index.php?id=257&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=9101&cHash=70154f0029

Expect Brisbane to have two familiar import faces.

Ballarat have also filled both of their import spots, with Ken Horton and Ray Booker.

Best import pairing is always hard to judge before the season, especially with so many new faces coming in.

Reply #453490 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Tigerwatcher got some names for us for Knox or sworn to secrecy....

Reply #453491 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Enough discussion on this forum about knox but I think Justin Browne was a announced prior to xmas not sure on if they have another import.

Any word on Sandy? I thought they had potentional last year to make noise

What about Nunawading? Getting Greer back or another import?





Reply #453502 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Is Justin Brown filling one of the import spots? Being an Aussie i thought they were bringing in 2 imports plus Brown.

Reply #453504 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Justin Brown is not an import! Knox have also signed Adam Doyle a development player on the 36ers roster as well as re-signing Greg Page.

Reply #453649 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Knox rumored to be going without restricted players this year due to lack of funds.

Reply #453652 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

CJ Massingale has officially signed with Brisbane Spartans, as announced on their Facebook page yesterday.

Reply #453666 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

Zach Henifin also confirmed as returning to the Spartans, so that's their import pairing for 2014

Reply #453668 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Brisbane will be tough with that import pairing throw in Scott Kenny and that trip wont be pleasant.

Reply #453670 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Brisbane look to have put together a team that will score the ball!!!

It they can get another front court player to support George they will be a very tough team to play esp up in Brissy!

Good on them for getting two imports and having a crack.

Reply #453671 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They'll need 3 balls every offensive set to keep those 3 happy.
Might be good on paper but good luck keeping them all happy, especially CJ.

Reply #453673 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Brisbane will go close to winning it.

Reply #453699 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Brisbane and Geelong and Mount Gambier.

Next Rung is Dandenong (remember, they went 14 and 14 and only just snuck into the playoffs. They had an amazing run late but don't have the depth of talent the other teams appear to have) and Nunawading.

Reply #453702 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Throw Bendigo into the mix as well.

Reply #453705 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

and every other team except Albury

Reply #453706 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Hobarts 2nd import is from "Klinger" country Toledo:
http://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Jerrah_Young/Finland/Porvoon_Tarmo/91965

Reply #453719 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ballarat no chance. Poorly coached and kids just not experienced enough.

Reply #453720 | Report this post


Sammy  
Years ago

Where will Bruce be playing if rumored not to be at ballarat next year

Reply #453797 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

On Hobart. http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/local-sport/american-tall-joins-chargers-new-look-starting-five/story-fnj92b0f-1226808078918

Reply #453801 | Report this post


CJ Fan  
Years ago

CJ will drop 40 on Knox - shanahan's worst nightmare?

Reply #453864 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Bruce will not be at Ballarat thats for sure.

Reply #453879 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

CJ will need to see the ball first, with 2 other demanding scoring guards/forwards on that team there wont be enough shots to keep everyone happy.

Reply #453880 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Shanahan doesnt have the budget to addord CJ. Hardly his fault but they will struggle this season.

Reply #453881 | Report this post


pandora  
Years ago

CJ Fan 10th May in Brisbane will be when it happens.Shanahan may not have to worry because hopefully he will have been given the arse by then.His appointment will go down as one of the worst decison Knox has ever made.

Reply #453889 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Hardly Shanahans fault knox cant afford imports!!

Reply #453893 | Report this post


pandora  
Years ago

anon nothing to do with affordability as CJ and Lester were both gone even if Knox could afford to pay and that was Shanahan's decision.My belief is he just does not have it to be a senior level coach. Ask players who he has coached
and they will tell you his man management skills are awful.

Reply #453908 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Correct pandora. Another case of an ex-player who can't coach but gets an opportunity. I feel bad for all the real coaches out there in this country.

Reply #453918 | Report this post


Jason  
Years ago

Looking to see what Frankston do, are they using Long as a import now he has passed the citizinship and now able to be played as a Aussie.

Reply #453956 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

One import only, budget was reduced again this year.

Reply #453958 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He may have citizenship, but that doesn't mean he is cleared to play as an Aussie yet AFAIK.

Reply #453968 | Report this post


Jeff  
Years ago

Pandora your getting awfully personal about Shanahan. Are you mad cause he stood you down from a coaching position cause he found out who Pandora was??

Reply #454066 | Report this post


pandora  
Years ago

Sorry to dissappoint Jeff but a longway from the truth.I am just a longtime Knox person who has watched the senior teams in bad times and good times and last year was a very bad time. When you sit and watch week after week and watch player reactions it is not hard to workout something is wrong. When you hear senior players say they just didn't listen to what he was saying at timeouts and they would then go out formulate their own plays becuase his didn't work.That to me just confirmed what I was seeing.You don't go from finals contenders in 2012 to how they performed in 2013 unless something is not working.What was the only major change Shanahan.
If this year he proves me wrong I will quite happily get on here and praise him but considering what he has lost and what he has so far recruited I doubt it will happen.

Reply #454074 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not many people from SA at Knox Pandora...

Reply #454075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Shanahan was a dud player and now a dud coach.

Reply #454078 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There wouldn't be too many players that listen in a time out, let alone do what the coach wants immediately after a time out. I don't think that's Bubble's fault.

Reply #454086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Says more about the quality of the players than the coach if they wont follow instruction.

Reply #454088 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Guess you have never heard a coaches time out up close.

Reply #454093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ what kind of moronic statement is that?

Reply #454094 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its not. Most players 1. don't understand what their coaches are saying 2. even if they do understand they don't listen and 3. even if they do understand and listen they will all huddle up after the time out and come up with their own plan. get it moron?

Reply #454095 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

BS, Smart coachable players DO Listen, DO get it and DO what they're instructed.

Reply #454096 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SEABL or NBA?

Tim Duncan would listen.

JR Smith, maybe not so much.

Reply #454098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dandenong and Mt Gambier must start equal favourites and Bendigo, Geelong, Nunawading must be close behind.

Brisbane could be best set to jump into that bracket.

Albury, Ballarat, Hobart, Frankston could go either way. Imports will decide this.

Canberra, CoE, NW Tasmania, Kilsyth, Knox, Sandringham are complete unknowns at this stage.

Reply #454101 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

1. Who, so far has the best import pairing.
The two new imports at Bendigo look hard to beat at this stage.

2. Who has the best back court so far (aussie players)
Daly, Burdon, Hill, Blicavs at Mt Gambier (another said to be added)

3. Who has the best front court so far (aussie players)
Conn, Cameron, Greer, Casperz at Nunawading.

4. Which teams do we think will be top 4 in both conferences come finals time?
Dandenong, Nunawading, Geelong, Brisbane, Mt Gambier, Bendigo, Hobart, Knox

5. Rank the top 5 players/players to look out for:
1. Dustin Sailsbery
2. Zach Atkinson
3. Damien Johnson
4. Jamar Briscoe
5. Ken Horton

Reply #454105 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Never heard so much BS. Yet again not every SEABL side has a completed roster. Some signings may never even arrive. Surprisingly many basketball players are seriously dumb when it comes to understanding what position and plays they should be running, let alone understanding what the F the coach is talking about in time outs.

Reply #454114 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How many signings in the past have "never arrived"????

Reply #454115 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I'm interested in the point behind the following:

"Not many people from SA at Knox Pandora..."

Reply #454118 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You don't need to be from SA to be on Hoops.

The site even changed its name from Hoops SA to Hoops.

Reply #454218 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Knox Seabl men in disarray.French and Todd quit. Carroll and Phillip retire. Massinga and Strong released. Budget issues is a diversion. Wait to see who is signed. Shanahan has no respect from the remaining members of last years group. Quinn and Mitchell you were warned but bailed before you know what hit the fan.

so sad to see.

Reply #454235 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yet some will deny Shanahan is the problem.

Reply #454242 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Carrol gone fantastic!

Reply #454245 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Why you happy to see Carroll go Anonymous?

Reply #454247 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dirty player.

Reply #454254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Fat lazy player

Reply #454266 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Quitting and retiring = disarray?

Knox had to make the changes - it's like pruning a tree. They are younger and hungrier. They will play for Shanahan and he will do a great job.

If you're going to lose, lose with guys that are yours - not whiny veterans who can't practice hard and only use playing as an excuse to get smashed with their mates on the weekend.

Reply #454275 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ pretty much sums it up. That group had been together too long, had lazy poor work ethic and rebelled against change, hard work and accountability.

Reply #454278 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maybe they need to move to the Melbourne Tigers.

Reply #454281 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

These decisions will bear fruit for Knox in 3 years.

Page will be a career SEABL guy like Andrew Harms/Shane McDonald.

Reply #454287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Canberra import Matt Staff looks like a very good signing! If they can lure a few players down from the gong (as rumoured) then they could end up with a strong team.

Reply #455139 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why do rep associations fund SEABL teams that lose hundreds of thousands of dollars? How do these associations justify paying for imports for this two bit competition? I just don't get SEABL.

Reply #455141 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Two bit competition, wow.

Reply #455154 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#455141

Help us out, which league do you get?

Reply #455170 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So which clubs lose hundreds of thousand of dollars? Most SEABL clubs make more of a profit than NBLs clubs. never heard so much bollocks.

Reply #455172 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#455141

You are clearly as astute basketball mind.

Reply #455177 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No doubt SEABL teams are paid for by generous parents. Associations like to have a peak team their kids can aim for.

Reply #455178 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No doubt? Think you will find every SEABL club is funded in a different way. Some rely heavily on association hand outs while others operate more as their own business and some are a mix of both.

Reply #455179 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Holly generalization Batman, im sick of bitchy parents getting on here bagging out the "cost" of SEABL programs and the implied burden they place on junior programs, associations and teams.

Here's a thought, without the High Profile the Senior Teams create for your junior program or association your kids wouldn't have an association to play for nor a pathway to a decent senior team (and beyond) to aspire to play for.

Quit the bitching about the "drain" you think these pathways cost you.

Reply #455187 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

To be fair, most of you have misinterpreted #455141's question. They did ask a specific question and it is a reasonable one. The problem is that they were not interested in the answer.

The question was why do rep associations fund loss making SEABL programs. In my view when a SEABL program does not self-fund through sponsorship, membership and gate then someone/something (junior playing fees) props it up and it can be defined as loss making. They were not saying the association makes a loss as some have interpreted it.

I would think the following all rely heavily on their associations - Knox, Kilsyth, Nunawading, Frankston, Sandringham, dandenong, Southern Districts, Canberra. I reckon the following, just because of regional support, would be less reliant but still seek association cash - Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong. I understand some of the others are completely self standing - that is get no money from their local association?

Reply #455193 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I doubt any 2 associations would work off the same model, all have various levels of support, many must be "not for profit" organizations anyway, so funds are diverted to exhaust them.

I agree where possible the SEABL teams should provide as much independent income as they can but I get sick of hearing parents bitching at training about the cost of providing a senior team/program when none of them have the slightest knowledge of the financial structure of the association.

Also believe it or not Its not all about the kids as many claim, most associations have a significant adult contingent and believe it or not your kids will be adults one day too, if they're good enough they'll get to benefit from the coaching and training they get and be paid to play for the senior team.

Reply #455195 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think a lot of people see the (accurate) suggestion that most SEABL teams take money from their association as an attack on SEABL. It ain't necessarily so.

Reply #455203 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SEABL program takes money from the association or the association invests money in their SEABL program?????


It depends on how you see it.

Reply #455213 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

We can't put a label on all teams doing the same thing here, it is a diverse corporate sector for every Association based SEABL team to try and navigate, just like your local Football Team for example.

Every sporting club must try to gain funds through whatever means they can, but it is what they spend and how they use the money they generate that is the killer and can cause debt issues to be resolved.

Not all clubs have poker machines, a local council that is totally behind them or a venue they control!

Not wise to generalise and place every SEABL program into the same bucket when it comes to how they are financed, that's just being silly IMO...

Reply #455372 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Spot on Bear, no 2 associations would be remotely the same.

Reply #455376 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"SEABL program takes money from the association or the association invests money in their SEABL program?"

I would say, if it's done right, those two things are indeed the same thing. Unfortunately, whenever it is raised some people on both sides get defensive while perhaps not understanding that concept.

Reply #455377 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Bear and #455372,

I dispute the statement that no two sides would be remotely the same.

I think you would find the "models" would be very similar for groups of teams.

As stated, I think there are three model groupings:

a) those largely dependent on association funding (how the association gets that revenue is largely irrelevant - pokies versus kids versus seniors versus other - it just means that the association is heavily topping up the spend).

b) Those somewhat dependent on association funding - more likely to have a significant proportion of their budget met by sponsors/members etc.

c) Those who receive no association funding (i i=understand there are a couple of these).

The amount of dependency might vary, but that does not invalidate the model. One might get 80% of funding from the association or 55%, you are still "largely dependent".

And the argument is not about whether it is an investment or loss, its about whether there is an actual loss on a program basis - thereby necessitating the need to make said "investment".

Reply #455393 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Thanks HO, cheers mate, I comprehend your examples, but I wasn't exactly saying no two are the same, I was implying that all Associations are not the same!

Anyway, your models are of course also generalising, as they should do, kind of my point as well, that we shouldn't generalise too much.

Oh, and the comparison for your three country Vic Associaions, Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong is an interesting one.

On face value it may appear to readers that they are much the same, that they have simlar models and are funded pretty much the same way as each other, or that is what it appears you are saying if I read your post correctly mate...

Those three are so different:

Ballarat runs it's own canteen, has a fair amount of control of a specific basketball venue and has potential for revenue through links with the Tabaret next to it. Not sure how much council and corporate support they get, but the complex needs upgrading so dollars would be thin.

Bendigo not only runs its own canteen but also has direct revenue through a fully licensed restaraunt, bar, pokies and TAB all encased within a large basketball specific complex supported greatly by local business and council. The place is in great shape and they of course hold WNBL games with TV coverage backed up by the fact they are in the heart land of Victorian country baskeyball.

Geelong must seek funds from their membership, find corporate sponsors and support from local council, but they do not control a venue which is in desperate need of upgrading, they do not run the canteen and have absolutely no funds generated from any form of gambling on site or nearby. Only recently the SEABL and Association arms joined together, but their model is vastly different from the other two.

Meerkat or Market mate??

Reply #455407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So what criteria do you think would justify the "investment" in the associations running a SEABL programme?

Reply #455455 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^^^ Well there are a number of benefits such as:

- Providing the best possible pathway for junior players and coaches to graduate and participate at the highest possible senior club level in Australia.

- Providing a more marketable attractive profile for your program to attract the best juniors.

- Provide aspirational incentive for Players, Coaches, Officials and members.

- Provide an elite profile and environment that filters expertise and experience down into your junior rep and domestic programs.

- Provide high quality family based entertainment for the broader association community.

Reply #455459 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

"Not wise to generalise and place every SEABL program into the same bucket when it comes to how they are financed, that's just being silly IMO... "

Your comment Bear, not mine. You were talking about SEABL programs, as I was. Now you say you are talking about associations.

(and by the way, I didn't put them all in one bucket, i put them in three, I modeled them if you like....)

Even in trying to clarify your answer you have managed to confuse yourself. You talk about associations but then about Geelong and their membership - that would be SEABL memberships on whole, not association memberships.

See the difference? Specific SEABL program revenue versus general association revenue. The latter is what is used to prop up SEABL programs in most cases is my guess.

The issue is not how much money the association gets, or how it gets it, or their venue deal, or how they sell their ice-creams. The issue, and this is what previous posters to you were very clearly confused about, is that you can have a loss making SEABL program within a surplus making association.

Then a further issue arises. The further issue is how much investment in such a program is justified. Paul made a good point that people often associate an associations decision to generously fund their SEABL program as the SEABL's fault. Its not the SEABL's fault, and it may not be anyone's fault, if the investment proves worthwhile.

At what point however should an association not subsidise a SEABL program? If a program is costing 300k and only raising 100k off sponsorship and program sources, is that a wise investment ongoing? Or, should the association reduce the SEABL budget to 200k and take a harder line on player payments?

Is there a moral obligation to fund women's programs at the same level as mens even though, as most would acknowledge, women's programs are generally not good revenue generators?

How do Associations who do subsidise their SEABL programs measure that? In terms of kids who play in that team from their junior ranks? In terms of trophies won or finals played in? In terms of how many graduate from the SEABL program to a national league?

455141 was sort of asking these questions - would be good for someone in the know to put some answers to them.

Reply #455460 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#455459

You posted as I did so I missed these. Good answers - now, does anyone actually measure any of that? Do you think there is any evidence that these things all happen?

The NBL basically proved during its decline that participation in basketball was not affected by its standing - otherwise melbourne stadiums would all be half full now given how the NBL product has been decimated more in Victoria than anywhere else.

Reply #455461 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HO, I doubt many can lay claim to measuring these kind of KPI's but the Victorian Basketball environment from an NBL perspective has been built on a foundation of Club based teams: (Spectres/Magic, Giants, Saints, Supercats, Tigers etc), so its no surprise to me SEABL has done well off the back of a similar club or "association" based model.

Reply #455463 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Ho, please let me know which SEABL program is not now backed, at least in some form, by its Association?

I am not aware of one, stand alone SEABL team, I would however love to know if there is one (Not the AIS either)...

Not confused, just trying to simply make a point about something slightly different than that which you are elaborating on mate, perhaps.

Reply #455469 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure if the Gunners get anything, the Chargers nor the Pioneers from local associations. There might be more? Clearly the AIS don't they get gov grants but no local stuff.

Reply #455480 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Good to see one SEABL club still has their Xmas message up as there headline on their website. Maybe there getting ready for next Xmas :)

Reply #455532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Active, up to date and fresh websites and social media is one area VERY hit and miss with Basketball full stop.

Most clubs could do a FAR Far better job of it.

Reply #455535 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Communication to their members via social media and traditional media outlets is certainly lacking.Facebook and Twitter are easy but the websites are a little more labour intensive.

Reply #455549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HD, its not lacking, its basically non existent....

Apart from the occasional FB chest thump or flurry during the season most clubs are mute...

Reply #455558 | Report this post


Mmmmmm  
Years ago

To solve all the money problems of the seabl just do what Nunawading woman 's team has done ,if you want your girl in the team just get on the board .From there it is simple just put up the money ,Evan if she don't make the grade.From there the coach has got money to run 7 players all the rest of the team no court time ,the board and there siblings are happy for living a false dream while real players either leave or stop playing ,there is to much CONFLICT OF INTEREST .Makes it an uneven playing field ,in my view should turn back the clock and have no wnbl players in the teams or nbl .So we can really see our true tallent of the future in the great game , basketball everyone's game .

Reply #455632 | Report this post




 

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