Isaac
Years ago

NBLPA: Concern raised with board re Oceania rule

Jacob Holmes, NBLPA president, on Twitter:

For the record: Player concerns have been raised & we're awaiting Board response. In person meeting set for this weekend.

This is regarding the recent discovery that though the NBL had at one point aimed to include Oceanic players as locals in the NBL, it was never enacted as a rule. This would mean that Breaker Tai Wesley and Wildcat Earnest Ross would have to suit as imports unless the rule was added.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If a particular NBL club wasn't aware of the ruling, then they probably need to step out of their corporate office and venture down to a grassroots level, as all the other clubs around Australia have known of it for 12 months. We signed a player under the ruling last October!!

In regards to whether the ruling should be allowed in the NBL, well the NBL is a FIBA-affliated competition that has to adhere to certain FIBA directives. This was one of them.

I have been told by a most reliable source (within BA) that the NBL was given a 'directive' by FIBA as to the implementation of this ruling and that is was non-negotiable.

Whether the NBL has changed its own 'rules' is then irrelevant. In any competition or league in Australia you will find a number of FIBA rules that are not necessarily written into the competitions own 'rules'. This is normal practice. Any league (including the NBL) has the flexibility to implement their own rules or 'tweak' a certain FIBA rule, as long as it is not against any particular FIBA directive. This was one of those FIBA directives that the NBL had to adhere to, whether or not they changed the wording of their own rules.


More: http://www.ozhoopsboards.com/showpost.php?p=418558&postcount=702

And this should put an end to the matter.

Reply #494510 | Report this post


Silencer83  
Years ago

For those who don't know the poster who wrote that is directly involved with the Goldfields Giants SBL club.

Reply #494512 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

And go ask a few CBA coaches who were told they couldn't have Kiwi's playing as locals.

NZNBL doesnt allow 3 Aussies as imports so this isnt a one fits all situation.


Reply #494515 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

And if the NBLPA didn't know about it you cant say that BA has been particularly diligent. IF BA had appropriately notified people as the above oz hoops person suggests shouldn't the NBLPA be able to refer to being told and by whom and when....

Reply #494516 | Report this post


Silencer83  
Years ago

You seem to be under the false impression that the NBLPA is actually relevant and professional.

Have a look at their website to see just how relevant they are (member resources 3 seasons out of date etc); as for professionalism well their lack of such puts the NBL/BA to shame.

I used to have a lot of respect for Jacob Holmes but his willingness to twist the truth to suit his purposes and his utter arrogance when presented with conflicting factual evidence has eroded that significantly.

Reply #494519 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

so there isn't a player salary cap in the FIBA rules, can the clubs just take that as the FIBA rule and ignore the NBL rule ?

NBL rules are the NBL rules

Reply #494523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

@Anon: No, just that NBL rules cannot contradict FIBA rules/directives.

Silence from FIBA on an issue implies that the league has freedom to do what it wants, not that it isn't allowed.

Reply #494524 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

You can supplement the national body's rules, but you can't break them. If FIBA or BA regs directly say otherwise, then the contradicting NBL regs are effectively 'dead letters'.

Reply #494525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jacob Holmes only concern with the NBLPA is trying to keep a job.

Reply #494526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"And if the NBLPA didn't know about it you cant say that BA has been particularly diligent."

When did the NBLPA say they didn't know about the rule?

Reply #494527 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

If the knew about it they wouldnt be asking questions would they. They would say yes we were told that this rule had changed.They would then be able to tell everyone how they were told and by whom.

Reply #494529 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why would anyone think its a rule when in the recently published rules it not there.
Believe in the chinese whispers, oh someone said. Like the freeway analogy given earlier. They were going to change this part of the road to 100K.Well they haven't yet.
An administrative over sight, every chance but right now the rule aint there.
Correct it by all means. Next season everyone will know.

Reply #494530 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry post to wrong topic, please move to Perth cheating again ;)

Reply #494531 | Report this post


Jay  
Years ago

It is simply the fact that it is Perth that has everyone up in arms?

If it was, say, the crocs or the hawks, would people be making this much noise about it?

Reply #494532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kent, they are "raising concerns" that players have. Those concerns might be that the potential roster spots for Aussies just dropped from 64 to 62, or there is a greater talent pool to choose from with no increase in teams ie the timing of this rule change was bad. It's entirely possible they have known about this rule all along but the Ross signing promoted them to speak up about it.

Reply #494535 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

that is possible , but the reality is that they had no idea about the supposed rule change.

Reply #494536 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

It is simply the fact that it is Perth that has everyone up in arms?

If it was, say, the crocs or the hawks, would people be making this much noise about it?
Probably more so that it's the championship/strong team rather than one of the battling teams. And also that it doesn't really seem to be adding a typically Oceanic type but an American with import-level stats.

I'd guess that's what people are uncomfortable about. They want to see a competitive league first and foremost.

Reply #494539 | Report this post


Libertine  
Years ago

If it is not written anywhere in any Competition Regulation or Rules and it has not been communicated officially by BA or the NBL in any directive or circular, it is not part of the competition rules. Clear and simple.

However, if it contradicts with FIBA rules, then the NBL clubs could potentially challenge it at the Court of Arbitration for Sport, assuming that FIBA/BA/NBL follow the standard sports dispute resolution mechanisms of all Olympic sport federations and have the necessary mechanisms contained within their constitutions / statutes.

The CAS has been pretty consistent in this regard in protecting the subordination principle in sports and the autonomy of international federations domiciled in Switzerland to impose their own rules.

That is a big leap, however.

Reply #494545 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So please show us where the NBL has agreed to be a part of the FIBA rules.
So much conjecture and assumption. So little facts.

Reply #494558 | Report this post


Libertine  
Years ago

(Caveat: I don't know if this is a FIBA rule or not, I don't really care if it is, I just pointed out the legal option if it is a FIBA rule but not expressly contained in the NBL rules and the NBL is unwilling to enforce it)

The NBL doesn't have a choice, as it is affiliated to BA who is affiliated to FIBA.

Reply #494566 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

If they didn't know about the rule they should find a new job as it was reported here in NZ as soon as it was made and again when the Southland Sharks were looking at Wesley to replace Gareth Dawson.

Reply #494567 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would this ruling the be the same for Aussies wanting to play in nz or would they be classed as imports because that opens a whole new area

Reply #494569 | Report this post


kdb  
Years ago

Is the NZNBL FIBA affiliated? Otherwise the point you make about Aussies in NZ is irrelevant.

Reply #494572 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If they are why is it called NBL, as in national basketball league....when did nz become part of Australia, if that's the case you shouldn't need a passport.....and that really opens a whole new can of worms haha

Reply #494574 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Years ago

Does the NBL and FIBA not have to approve every NBL player signing?

You always hear "waiting on FIBA approval" or "waiting on NBL lodgement".

So this was either approved by one or both of the governing bodies and I think they both have more knowledge of the rules and regulations than anyone who posts on an internet forum, the NBPLA or any journalist no matter how important he thinks of himself.

Reply #494575 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Probably more so that it's the championship/strong team rather than one of the battling teams. And also that it doesn't really seem to be adding a typically Oceanic type but an American with import-level stats.

I'd guess that's what people are uncomfortable about. They want to see a competitive league first and foremost."

So because Perth utilised the rule to the letter of the law and found a fantastic player who qualifies as an Oceanic local, we have people who are trying to have that player deemed illegible on a technicality?

The rule isn't "Oceaniac players are considered locals...unless one happens to be really, really good, in which case we will blow the whole thing apart" and I think its quite sad that people are going down that road just because their biggest rival succeeded in getting the best out of the rule.

It should also be noted that the rule was referenced when Wesley was signed, but no one looked in to it at all. In fact, it was reported as being a good use of the rule, and it was also mentioned that other clubs had him on their radar. But now that Perth did it, they address it differently.

And on the comment about people wanting to see a competitive league - sure, that is the plan, but if a club is poorly managed, like it has been for several years, it isn't the responsibility of other clubs to "hold back" in order to maintain parity.

Reply #494580 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/basketball/a/25042295/query-over-nbl-oceania-deal/

More strength to the suggestion the rule doesn't exist.

Reply #494584 | Report this post


Anon12  
Years ago

Jacob,
Don't wish to comment on the subject, however, do Silencer83's comments re Jacob fall under your warning about defamation?

Reply #494586 | Report this post


Anon12  
Years ago

Isaac,
Apologies - query was directed at you, put in wrong name.

Reply #494587 | Report this post


Silencer83  
Years ago

Doubtful Anon17 as I have the twitter conversations to back up my expression of my degradation of my opinion of him and I haven't made any statement alledging that he has committed a crime etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

Reply #494596 | Report this post


Silencer83  
Years ago

I should also add that Jacob knows my identity from those twitter conversations so given he didn't pursue me when the conversations occurred I doubt he would be asking Isaac for my details now.

Reply #494598 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hopefully Jacob can keep himself employed by an nbl club for a few more years and keep the likes of s0j under contract.

Perhaps Boti can find a few more mistakes for Jacob to investigate in order to make this happen.

Reply #494606 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

So because Perth utilised the rule to the letter of the law and found a fantastic player who qualifies as an Oceanic local, we have people who are trying to have that player deemed illegible on a technicality?
Letter of the law? I thought that was exactly the dispute?

Reply #494613 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You were the one who said the issue was because it was the defending champs utilising the rule and people want an even playing field. Now you've taken the response completely out of context.

Reply #494614 | Report this post


Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

Reading between the lines Ross is shakey but Wesley is ok

Reply #494649 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Not sure that's really accurate. Ross is as good as done, Wesley may or may not make it depending on whether the NBL rules they adopted the ruling or not.

Reply #494650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So many experts, so little understanding.
The NBLPA has as much clues as MB and KR do. == ZERO.

Reply #494669 | Report this post




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