6 months is ages!

Get rid of the points system, let teams stack.

Play 48 minute games, longer, more entertainment (hopefully)

make tickets cheaper, people don't understand how different and how much more entertaining real basketball is to tv. i sat in my lounge like wtf are they doing, went to real games and THEN understood how hard it is for C-Web to get his shots off, how athletic mitch creek actually is, and how composed S-Wilberkin plays etc. Big difference.

Change the damn theme song, the broadcast menu/bars whatever the are. out dated and take too much of the screen when watching. keep a simple format with team logo and 3 letters of city or something. Change the theme song to main stream music, the nbl theme song is so stupid.

I know it will cost a lot, but get a sponsor to invest in a youth league! Make it cool to know who the up and coming breakers, taipans, kings and croc players are. A under 19 or 20's league. Kind of like the NRLs under 20 comp. Let them play before the pro teams (i dont know if this effects their 'pro' status however and therefore revoke a oppurtunity at usa college scholarship)

ADD TEAMS! More teams, more fans. Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Wellington!!!!

I know these might far fetched but the NBL can be so good just have to keep it simple and build one step at a time!

A year off isn't the way to go, unless you are going to get lots of govt money and Lowy money. Having said that, unless the clubs hand over to a sensible, independent governance model their might be some enforced time off around the corner.

Sorry to be cynical, and not saying I want this, but would an NBL without Townsville and Wollongong make it easy to get a TV deal? The TV deal then makes it easier for clubs to sell sponsorships and easier for new clubs to come in (provided the NBL doesn't stuff two good bids around ala Brisbane - scratches head, walks away).

I just posted in another thread that while still unsubstantiated, I had heard that IMG were going to but the league, run it and also pay for a free to air tv deal. If that's the case it could perhaps lead to the no comments from NBL headquarters and the apparent sitting on hands at this point in time

The AFL teams would love if there was no NBL for 18 months!
There would be a lot of AFL teams talking to Creek and similar players.

Plus the players coming back from college look very good this year, so not giving them a professional bball option for 18 months would be crazy. Expect the rookie lists of AFL teams to explode.

I could see the league losing 10-15 players permanently to Europe and the AFL.

I think a lot of players and fans would be pretty annoyed and they would have to have an awesome reboot to get them interested again.

It is a short grab from SEN, but in that time Gaze hons in on the model and how the model doesn't seem to work! I tend to think that is kind of obvious, so what can the NBL do, surely not the same thing year in and year out?

And who is going to pay these 30 players that go back to state league Anon?

You snooze you lose, a year off and the game is dead in Oz.

I kid you not Nick Mills could have a team from Wellington in next season's NBL.

Instead of mulling over Brisbane, why not go with Wellington - they already have half the players, coach, stadium, investors and fans.

They are already in operation as a sustainable franchise with over 20 investors. A lot of those are major "gold" sponsors.

Look at the talent they could attract - Corey Webster would consider going to a Wellington team as they could make him their foundation "drawcard" so to speak. Leon Henry, BJ Anthony, great imports, they could throw big money at Kirk Penney if the Breakers don't have the coin. Isaac Fotu could come back and play. Tai Webster..the list goes on.

The Saints already get 4k to their games. The stadium is a beautiful modern arena. It is smack bang in the centre of the city too, would make great Friday night games. It has capacity for 5,600. The Saints could fill this up every game.

As for tickets and costs of going to Wellington from Auckland as part of a double-header NZ roadtrip. Flights operate out of Auckland to Wellington (the Night Rider) for $29. Leaves 11pm ish. Perfect for after their Auckland game.

In terms of accommodation, Ibis Hotel Wellington are a gold sponsor, I am sure they can help out with accommodation and logding of travelling teams at competive rates to make it work initially.

Breakersfan...it could be argued that the points system is keeping teams competitive. A 7-8 team comp cant afford to scrap something like the points cap especially when it isn't a majorly supported sport. Spectator numbers will decline outside of those really financial teams - effectively causing teams to go under as they are now. Letting teams stack is not the answer - it becomes too lopsided in more cases than one.

A 48 minute format does not align with TV deals.

Ticket pricing is achievable but clubs need to find a balance between what they can afford and what the punter feels is affordable.

I agree regarding your point about live basketball. I feel the opposite for AFL - I'd much rather watch that at home on the tele as you see more and its more comfortable. Basketball gets you closer to the action and when you have a good crowd the atmosphere is better than the AFL IMO. Thats something the NBL needs to hone in on and promote!

Theme song and broadcast suggestions are at the hands of the network televising the product. NBL could work better with them in thsi respect though.

I like your underage league idea. However, would that take away from the CofE? Also, it is hard enough for league teams to garner sponsors so I would expect this to have more difficulty considering it would not be aired on tv. This type of league wouldnt affect college aspirations unless they were being paid.

Easy to say add more teams than it is to do it - with stability! Better off focusing on stabilizing the ones you have before expanding.

Things arent always as simple as they seem.

Basketball is right up there in terms of sports most participated in at grass roots level so the NBL needs to investigate why the interest doesnt translate to spectating and then come up with a plan to narrow that gap!

i fail to see how the league could benefit from shutting down a year.

what could they achieve in 12 months that they couldn't achieve in 6? what would they be doing in that free 6 month window? trying to sell a product to investors, attract corporate sponsors? a) how would that take more than 6 months so you would need to shut down for the season?) how would that work without a product in the market?

Jeremy Moffatt from Townsville:
https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/jeremy-moffat-on-morning-glory

Hardest thing is we dont know how many teams, how many home games so we can't sell sponsorships or season tickets therefore causing us cash flow issues.

Can't see a shutdown happening. No short term benefits to the clubs running the league. Too much risk that fans and sponsors don't return from a cold start.

If you're a Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, etc - what do you care if the Crocs or Hawks drop out? Ride out the fan reaction, then nab the unemployed players, schedule only games against big-town teams (tolerate Cairns for now) and keep selling tickets.

"I kid you not Nick Mills could have a team from Wellington in next season's NBL.

Instead of mulling over Brisbane, why not go with Wellington - they already have half the players, coach, stadium, investors and fans."

We have been here before. Wellington might have a good venue, be self sufficient, have nice hotel room etc.

But they do not add to the commercial attractiveness of the league.

As someone said here or somewhere else, having Townsville and Wollongong out of the league MIGHT be good for TV. Having Brisbane in the league IS good for TV. Having Wellington in the league is not.

All that with the greatest of respect for Mills, the Wellington team etc.

The league could add Newcastle and Geelong. It would not make the league commercially more attractive. It would make it less attractive. It's not anti NZ, or anti-regional, its the reality of the commercial opportunities created by big markets.

If Wellington bring a Sky broadcast to every home game which can be used by the NBL in their Australian broadcast arrangements they certainly add to the league.

The league has dropped the ball in a number of areas, and as soon as they moved away from the Neill model in central NZ they should have started working with Mills again.

More teams!!! higher salary cap!! Allen Iverson!!!!! Live on TV prime time every night of the week!! Tickets to games $5 with free blow job on entry!!!

what Macdub said....

"We have been here before. Wellington might have a good venue, be self sufficient, have nice hotel room etc.

But they do not add to the commercial attractiveness of the league. "

more attractive than a league with 4x teams or no league, yes.

HO, I understand the commercial attractiveness aspect.

But if TVL and Wollongong go down, you have a 6-team league.

It doesn't really matter if those teams are located in major cities, 6 teams isn't going to be commercially attractive either to the media.

I do agree with you that the aim is to have a sufficient number of teams AND for these to be in TV-friendly cities. But the key is to have a good base of teams and six simply wouldn't cut it.

If Wellington bring a broadcast of all their games, they are TV-friendly because more games involving the big city teams are available to screen in Australia.

If NBL went through a 12 month shut down, Basketball Australia might look to start up their own 'national competition' with the SEABL. Invite the WAS champs & SA champs over for an end of season "Champions of Australia" round robin duel, perhaps even the NZNBL champ depending on timing "Champions of Australia & New Zealand".

Invite SA & WA teams into the comp the following year & set divisions up ala NBA.

No pesky, 'self interest millionaires' to deal with, community support already prevalent.

Maybe this is what BA wanted all along.

(Note: Conspiracy theory, up to you if you take it seriously)

I love the idea of bringing Wellington in, have thought they should have done it for ages,

It also helps with parity also as it would split the NZ national team between 2 NZ teams, which i know is besides the point right now with all the other issues going on.

NZ seem to have better TV deals than we do in Aus, so that footage could be streamed, shown on tv in Australia.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain, i say bring on Wellington Saints.

Yeah, I dont see how a Wellington team if sufficient as outlined would not be advantageous to the league. Flights between Wellington and Auckland are cheaper than anywhere in Australia to Wollongong or Townsville. Tie in the Sky sports coverage with the broadcaster here and vice versa and you expose your sponsors to a greater audience.

A win win I reckon!

I think a major issue would be costs for the clubs if the league were to shut down. You still have to pay contracted players, coaching staff under contract, front office staff. Where is this money going to come from if there is no income? Sponsors will not be handing out any money for no return.

@Isaac -
"If you're a Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, etc - what do you care if the Crocs or Hawks drop out? Ride out the fan reaction, then nab the unemployed players, schedule only games against big-town teams (tolerate Cairns for now) and keep selling tickets."


Tickets to what though? A six team league? Five soon, if Adelaide keeps going the way it is? United are already one season down in basically giving away a season's worth of tickets, I doubt they're going to be keen on maintaining that model much longer, and a 5-6 team league simply isn't interesting enough or provide a long enough season to actually draw new crowds. The best you can do is aim to keep fleecing the faithful. IMO, you'd be better off taking the time to rebuild the league from scratch, instead of continually burning your fanbase that's been patiently supporting the one legged hobble of the league for the last 10 years.

Gaze is right in that the NBL is broken, and I can agree with his comments with shutting it down for a year. However he could also be just saying this as a tactic to try and spur the league to get into action and do something now to save it before it gets even worse (if that's possible)

When Gaze speaks, everybody listens, unlike anybody else involved in the league. His comments have made news headlines on websites that don't normally give 2 cents to the NBL. A bombshell comment from him could spark some good logical decisions to be made, while also bring to light the issues of the NBL to the non-basketball community of Australia, who would otherwise not have a clue whats happening right now.

Issac is spot on. You shut it all down and:

1) You lose corps to other sports and there is no guarantee they come back.
2) starting again like the A-League only works if you have million dollar private backers and Hyundai pumping in LOTS of cash.
3) there aren't alot of sporting teams in Oz making money (out side of league wide support from Tv deal $$). If the AFL can't find a model where each team is individually sustainable, how will the NBL?
4) starting from scratch is harder than it seems, you've got to resell your product from scratch in the local markets. As soon as you lose market share it's automatically going to cost you at least $3 for every dollar you make to grow that back.


You can find a better model while the league is still running - Neill found one that didn't require a 'burn it to the ground' approach.

Naive of Gaze to say this. He is a basketball commentator, not administrator. Also disrespectful to all clubs still going.

Adelaide are fine

Easy for Gaze to sit on the outer and say the current model isnt working but what input and ideas did he suggest to better the league?

If you are going to criticize something, provide a counter approach!

Gaze is also an administrator also - he sits on the BA board.

Maybe Gaze has deliberately done this to put the acid on the owners. The spotlight is now on them to do something about this situation.A totally independant board with no links to the owners or BA would be a good start.

"Neill found one that didn't require a 'burn it to the ground' approach"

Neill's model was great in theory but if the tv stations (7mate and GO!) that were linked to the new deal were the ones we ended up with, it would be a backwards step.

Shut down ? Hanging off your tree mate

Put something on the table to help the league , stop flexing .

The A-League shutdown for 18 months and then relaunched - worked for them.

If the Nbl must run with 6 teams next season then then go with 20 game season played over 13 weeks or so. Only the top 2 playoff for title say from mid Oct to end of January. Allowing players to get more overseas, nzbl or state league gigs.
Also reduce salary cap to around 600K, these players are getting good money for 5 months work.

Worked for them because of govt money and Lowy money, so unless basketball has that type of impetus coming the situations aren't comparable.

jodiechrist,

Tickets to what though? A six team league? Five soon, if Adelaide keeps going the way it is?

"Neill's model was great in theory but if the tv stations (7mate and GO!) that were linked to the new deal were the ones we ended up with, it would be a backwards step."

There's no way it would be a backwards step on the current situation. Regardless, I think a mix between Neill's model and the current situation is the way to go.

While everyone says the model is broken, the NBL is just a relatively small TV deal away from sustainability. They just need to hand over to a governance model that is able to make the tough decisions needed to achieve it.

If the salary cap is reduced so much that player become semi-pro, what happens to all the school and community visits that greatly assist in raising the sports profile and attendance?

"There's no way it would be a backwards step on the current situation. "

Every game live sounds great, but when you discover its a hybrid mix of second-rate digital channels with some Foxtel, which have an overall combined market share of less than what exists now, its a backwards step. No point hiding the product just so we can say its all live.

I have no problems with a six-team league for a season if that's the only option. Shorten the regular season, lengthen the playoffs a little bit and with only 3-4 games a week get every game on TV, even if the only money you get for it is advertising ala netball.

"Every game live sounds great, but when you discover its a hybrid mix of second-rate digital channels with some Foxtel, which have an overall combined market share of less than what exists now, its a backwards step. No point hiding the product just so we can say its all live."

The product has been hidden for a number of years now, Fox Sports regularly achieves far better ratings than ONE, and the games on Ten this season rated at ONE levels.

So I think more games are beneficial, especially if the broadcaster is interested in promoting it. I'd take five games a week at an average audience of 30K over two a week at 40K.

What about 7mate and GO!? People don't even know those channels exist.

"What about 7mate and GO!? People don't even know those channels exist."

They rate better than ONE! 7TWO averaged over 50K for Davis Cup (in the middle of the night) and horse racing last Saturday.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a clear improvement if every game or even most games are on. If a club can tell a sponsor they'll have 28 games on TV well before the season starts it's a lot more attractive than saying we might have 14 but we don't know yet.

Someone raised a good point. The media listens to Gaze. So why not have Gaze as the CEO of the NBL. No Tigers means no bias.

By no means is this a solution for all of the problems but its seems when he talks people listen. On a personal note, he was an excellent speaker at his book launch some time ago. People were listening intently.

Not sure all clubs could afford a year off given player payments still exist for next year. So in light of this:
- 6 teams for 1 year would still work provided you changed your season/playoff format
- Use this year to rebrand in 2016/17. Advise clubs to only offer 1 year contracts in 2015/2016
- Work on the following TV deal where NBL is the producer - Fox, FTA, NITV. Ignore live streaming until the take up of NBN has reached target
- Work on marketing campaign in the lead up to 2016/17. Work with the media outlets to help cover the costs of campaign
- Reduce salary cap to $500,000 (with a % tiered salary tax for clubs that can afford to spend over the cap) for rebranded NBL in 2016/17 and open up bids from around Australia and New Zealand
- Community involvement of players increased to 350 hours across all teams as mandatory contract inclusion
- Depending on the number of team, reduce the seasons length and/or games played
- Pick rules that need changing to be more entertainment friendly. Ie defensive three second rule to free up the keyway.
- No import ruling. Gets the best player available for the salary cap available.
- No points system

I'm sure their are debateable aspects in my comments. Feel free to discuss

Cut the season to just home and away and pay accordingly. Time the season so it dosnt clash with europe, asia etc. With shortened season the better players can go overseas and the rest play local. Might be incentive to better players to come home for a couple months playing holiday. Plus quick cash for imports.

It wasn't the A-League that shut down. Soccer Australia disbanded the National Soccer League. They rebadged themselves 'FFA' then went out & designed a sustainable model for a national competition, including controlled expansion (though that failed in the first stage - ie Nth Qld & Gold Coast Utd). They have strict entry conditions, so much so the only way Western Sydney got was by the League/FFA funding it themselves.

They also happened to have a bloke at the helm with no club ties greater than the good of the league and, most importantly, had a REAL passion for the game & its long term success.

The NBL currently lacks that.

Making comparison is apples & oranges. Remember, the A-League has the backing and ownership of the national body for the sport. Basketball Australia has essentially washed its hands of the NBL following the de-merger.

Remember this: http://www.botinagy.com/blog/independent-nbl-the-way-to-go/

And this: http://www.nbl.com.au/article/id/6zwo94u4iwgx1pxenbn5cfuc3

In 2013 we had a go at doing this:

Following three years of successful marketing and increased fan involvement through game attendance and TV viewership, Basketball Australia is preparing to take the next step to ensure the successful growth of the National Basketball League (NBL).

In conjunction with the various NBL clubs, the board of Basketball Australia will produce a White Paper that examines options for the future strategic growth of the NBL.

The NBL White Paper will build on the previous NBL Strategic Plan which set short to medium forecast targets for 2014/15. The new White Paper, which will be endorsed by the board of Basketball Australia and the NBL, aims to define and evaluate longer term strategic options, with the aim of providing a positive course of action which will provide the league with the best opportunity at financial success.

Basketball Australia Chief Executive Officer Kristina Keneally said: "Since the NBL joined Basketball Australia as Members in 2008, the League has gone from strength to strength.

“The NBL is back on free-to-air TV with Network Ten; fans now enjoy for the first time in the League's history access to every game live and on-demand through the NBL.TV digital platform; and the Sydney Kings have returned to the competition."

Ms Keneally believes that the White Paper would help build on the NBL’s recent successful growth and will build a strong platform for future financial success.

“Put simply, the White Paper is about building a stronger National Basketball League,” Ms Keneally said.

Does anyone actually know what the 'White Paper' said? There was obviously a legitimate reason why BA and the NBL split, I can only conclude it was for the interests of the NBL owners, the franchises and not the league!

If I am wrong, fine, but the owners model is failing, it is not sustainable for many reasons...

paul - I thought netball paid for their tv coverage (or rather their naming rights sponsor pays)? I'm open to correction on that. I think NBL doesn't have a naming rights sponsor at the moment?

What impact does a shortened season and only 6 clubs have on income for the NBL? Does the NBL collect a licence fee from each club per year? If so, they'll have two less clubs to pay that. Sponsors may not want to pay as much for a shortened season, so how does NBL maintain its full-time workforce? How much harder does that make rebuilding the league? Are these the sorts of questions that led Gaze to conclude a new model for the NBL was needed?

That said, if you shut the league down, there's no income to pay the costs of rebuilding it. What would be 12-18 months of salary(s) and operating costs for an NBL rebuilding effort? $350,000+? Who would invest that sort of money for such an uncertain return?

What are Adelaides financial issues? And, if they have issues why are they spending so much on the roster?

paul, at the end of the day, the market share fror Mate and GO is consistently around two-thirds that of Ten. Any sponsor is going to be asking how their message will be received, not just how often or at what times.

^Pretty much...

Regarding the TV deal, it's worth pointing out that the current deal is zero televised games on no TV channels, not a game on One and a game on Ten each week.

That deal is over. They have to sign a new one, and there's no reason to believe Ten are interested.

I still dont understand why the NBL hasn't looked at my suggest at combining the WNBL and the NBL and running mixed teams............................................

*sigh*

"it's worth pointing out"

No it wasnt.

Just out of interest, are BA doing anything to expand the SEABL??

Does the SEABL have any TV or online streaming for the upcoming season?? I liked when they had some games on youtube in previous seasons.

Maybe BA could pump a bit of $$$ in it and see if they could make it a strong winter league, and take advantage of the things that people say the NBL should go back to winter for, ie NBA/major Euro leagues are not being played, not many big $$$ leagues around so players can be gotten for less $$$, etc. But build slowly, mostly through reinvestment of any profits made, to ensure it stays sustainable.

I like Isaacs 2 tiered idea, i wonder if anyone at NBL HQ/BA has seen it/thought about it and would run the lower tier pretty much as he and Flinders80 have suggested, i like the idea of no import restrictions which insures you get best value for money you can within your budget on every spot on the roster.

I still reckon the NBL should go down the let Larry K run/finance/own the whole thing and see what he can do, couldnt be worse than whats happening now.

I loved Fraser Neills vision too, it was headed in the right direction, pity some of the power players didnt agree, i wonder if SEABL will run with some of the ideas, especially given they already have teams in tas, Brisbane, Canberra, etc. Could they go after the TV deal/play all week nights idea Neill was going for??

More self-satisfying piffle from Gaze...

WTF do people think "shutting down for a year" would achieve????
Do people honestly believe that ANY of the issues are time related???
Extra time won't magically make money appear in the bank accounts of Townsville and Wollongong (in fact just the opposite.)
Time will certainly NOT get extra fans along to the games.

Nor will time magically make viable teams spring up in Brisbane, Wellington, etc.
Sure, once green-lighted, a new team would take a little to pull together, then you would need a decent pre-season. However if there were viable bids for such teams they could easily have them ready for next season, but apparently there aren't. And the passage of time is no guarantee that they will emerge.

For all the moaning and carping about the NBL management, I fail to see what MAJOR problems are attributable to them? The failure of two poor teams is hardly their fault, last thing we want is the NBL propping up such teams. When the Brisbane team was purported to be NBL owned, people complained, now it turns out they were looking at a bid from interested parties, people blame the NBL because it hasn't happened???
The TV deal? Problem is not enough people watch Basketball and nobody wants to broadcast it. The current deal is better than anything we've had since 10 dropped coverage 20 years ago. Besides which, the TV deal is never going to be the cash-cow that the AFL or NRL have.

Sure, there are things the NBL could do better, but shutting down for a year is beyond stupid.

How would that help king podge?

HO: gender equality. Same sex leagues are outdated..............

I thought you had something better than that KP...

HO: at the moment that's as good as it gets:)

Still a better idea than shutting the league down for a year!

Maybe they should just look to run a very short, sharp 6 team season for a year or two. Maybe just something similar to the BBL, smash out 10 game season. Then top 4 series as is.

Whilst this is happening, a completely seperate bunch create a new league format, get the new teams ready etc over a couple years so they get it right. Get some interest rising then invite the remaining 6 NBL teams to enter the new competition.

This seperate group would obviously be in charge of getting Brisbane, 2nd Melb, 2 NZ and one other team (2nd Syd?) Maybe even look at merging the Cairns programme to become a Townsville/Cairns team.

NBL should definitely not be a thing in the next couple years though.

SEABL should become a national league through winter.

Start a New big market league, with a higher salary cap and a new exciting format.

Make a rule straight away that each bid to enter the team MUST have a minimum population to get interest from. eg. 250,000 or even 500,000? SO Cairns and Townsville would have to merge eg to get a team. etc.

"Maybe even look at merging the Cairns programme to become a Townsville/Cairns team."

*slaps head*

For everyone saying "6 months is a long time". For the NBL, no, it's not. They get 6 months of every year and come up with next to nothing.

As for shutting the league down, It's not worth doing unless you have a plan for re-opening it. There has to be some independent group with interest in the league ready to take over. Why shut it down, only to relinquish the league to the same mindless buffoons who preside over the current dregs?

There needs to be an urgent restructuring. I don't think the teams should own the leagues, because as perth has shown, they dont want to be inconvenienced as to improve the wellbeing of the league in general. We need to drop a lot of these people who have got the league absolutely nowhere and look at some people who have lost interest in the NBL. Some ex NBL guys with great credentials who no longer bother. There would be a lot of them.

The league not only needs a cash injection, but people who know how to use it. Somehow both seem unlikely. The NBL is on deaths door.

Merge Cairns/Townsville.... why? Why merge a successful franchise with one's that not working???
You know T'ville is 4 hours away from Cairns right? Why not merge the Hawks with the Kings - it's closer after all!

If the T'ville community can't support their own team, they're sure as hell no going to support a Cairns team.

This idea makes my multi-gender league idea look like rocket science - and i was taking the piss!

Sweet baby Jesus on an elephant........

That, and the fact they weren't functioning properly.

A 6 team competition isn't the be all and end all, although less home games means less revenue from ticket sales. Marvin recently said in an article that they couldn't really afford to have any less than 14 home games or they run the risk of not breaking even. Or do we go the monotonous road of playing each team 5 times a year to compensate.

Maybe the NBL board are done with regional teams and don't see them as being financially viable and are going with less teams in big markets.

Any idea that gets rid of Cairns is hilarious considering they're the only profitable team in the entire league.

Marvin seems somewhat confident of an 8 team comp and Brisbane ? WTF

"I do believe Wollongong are very well managed and have good ownership backing.

I believe they will survive and there will be no issues with them participating next year.

If Townsville don't survive, then it is likely that we will still have an eight-team competition, with hopefully Brisbane in the mix for next year.

I don't believe there is any risk to the competition. It's business as usual over here."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/basketball/a/26591221/marvin-backs-nbl-survival/

I suspect the current fervour will die down and we'll still have 8 teams next year with much the same arrangement as this year. Problem is, should we settle for that. I thought the point of the demerger was for the clubs to shape their own destiny and not be "held back" by BA. 12 months on and I've seen nothing to instil confidence in the new regime.

BA should focus attention on developing SEABL further, adding a few more teams in (conference if need be) and get a TV deal with WIN/Imparja. Get it back to grass roots and leave the NBL to run the circus. Isaac's two tier league idea (which gets my vote) would be a natural progression.

Podge, this is why your WNBL and NBL merger won't work.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2391445-massive-brawl-at-womens-basketball-game-ends-in-double-forfeit-15-suspensions?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national3

Are you on drugs koberules? Cairns are the only team making a profit? WTF.

Excellent point Uwe - the ladies might be too rough. Terrible idea after all.

Roy Ward on Twitter:

NBL chairman Graeme Wade told me he has a "very little sympathy" for calls to shut down the league for a season.

Maybe they should just look to run a very short, sharp 6 team season for a year or two. Maybe just something similar to the BBL, smash out 10 game season. Then top 4 series as is.

Imports are the major cost, in the interim cut them down to one per team and include an Asian player in the squad, the level of Aussie talent will make up numbers and investors will see there is one eye on the future. Then bring in two imports once we have investor confidence back.

By going to a network like 7 or 9 wouldn't make a difference and you would probably be seeing delayed games on 7 and 9. Seven have the tennis and horse racing which would likely to be first option over NBL. Seven already have lots of sport throughout summer. Nine have the Tests and ODI cricket. Ten ratings v Seven for sports will probably the exact same without FOX Sports.

The Asian suggestion has been tried before and failed sorry to say.
NO point in 1 import either. The root problem is the mismanagement from the NBL Board down. If this Board was responsible for lets say Telstra what would be the reaction from shareholders?
NOw Marin is saying "He said he believed the Hawks had enough community support to survive their voluntary administration. Other plans were in place should either club fold. "The possibility of the Townsville Crocodiles going into administration was something I certainly expected based on their performance off the court," he said.
"I do believe Wollongong are very well managed and have good ownership backing.
"I believe they will survive and there will be no issues with them participating next year.
"If Townsville don't survive, then it is likely that we will still have an eight-team competition, with hopefully Brisbane in the mix for next year."
"I don't believe there is any risk to the competition. It's business as usual over here."

Yet when the Courier Mail asks the NBL the question of why the Bullets wont return, they threaten to hang up on the call cos its too hard.
I for one believe Marvin has lost the plot.
Why don't the NBL BOARD make a statement? The Crocs "fold" because Nick's lot cant tell the Crocs how many teams will be in next season. Not difficult is it Nick?

I dont think imports are major the major cost, maybe the Childress types are, but in general you can get a good value for money import.

In recent years we have had imports such as Hurdle, Henry, on what was rumoured to be on minimum or close to salaries $40-50k, whilst there production matches (or is close to) many of the better Aussies who earn closer to $100-150k.

Also had guys like Rotnei Clarke, Kevin Lisch (first season) going back a bit further to say Ebe Ere (in first season), Willie Farley (in first season) rumoured to be on less than $100k whilst having MVP level years, which is excellent value for money.

For example the 36ers could probably have fielded a team of (the following) for similar price, (possibly cheaper) than what they ended up spending

C DJ/Schenscher
PF Motum/Petrie
SF Creek/Montreal
SG Gibson/Hurdle
PG Wilson/Henry

To me thats a much deaper team.

It also helps force the salary of some Aussies down, you could say to a Gibson or Schenscher that imports like Lance Hurdle and Scott Morrison gives us 80% of what you do for around 50-80k, so we are not paying you more than that, and give them a take it or leave it offer, as you can literally replace them with imports if there are no restrictions. Which is another way to bring roster costs down.

Gives a better balance of power to the players and clubs and makes it more affordable, whilst potentially increasing the talent pool of the league.

One issue is at the moment our better Aussies guys like Gibson and Wortho can demand big $$$ whilst providing good but not great production, and end up being over paid as teams cant let them go for an import as you are only able 2 per team so decent Aussies are rarer and cost a premium, which creates a imbalance in cost v production.

Allowing an unrestricted amount of imports would bring this balance back and you can simply get the best player you can afford.

Wortho will be on The Project tonight.


*prays his appearance does more good than harm*

Wortho's comments regarding the situation on twitter are the exact stance we should all be taking, so I have no doubt he will help rather than hindrance by being on national television.
As a Wildcat's fan Wortho is the number 1 "love to hate" type of guy but off the court he has many instances which have earned him respect in my eyes. (doesnt mean I wont give him stick when he plays in Perth)

I don't dispute that he has positive intentions.
I'll leave it at that.

Are you on drugs koberules? Cairns are the only team making a profit? WTF.

Is that for real, koberulz? Are you saying that the Wildcats were not profitable this season? Because if so that is pretty damning.

"Marvin said the proposed tournament had the potential to be a massive commercial driver for the club, which could face a loss this season after its early exit from the NBL finals."

I wouldn't read too much in to that.

My take on things at the moment is here - http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/03/11/nbl-one-problem-doozy/

Basically no matter what the league does from here, it needs to accept that even throughout the glory years the league has never truly worked as a TV product.

So it's simple. You either take a Fraser Neill esque approach and take a sledgehammer to the TV issue by coming up with a model that potentially does work on TV. Or you accept the obvious limitations and re work the current model to work around those limitations.

As it stands, the league is in neither camp and is in fact hoping that a dream TV deal will come without any structural change. I don't like that approach. But more importantly, investors in Brisbane and Melbourne seem to have rejected that approach and clubs in Wollongong and Townsville are quite evidently not thriving under that approach.

Harry H said... "The root problem is the mismanagement from the NBL Board down".

Of course, there are other root problems, or should I say roots of the problem:

- the game is not great as a spectator sport
- the game is not great as a tv sport
- we place too much emphasis on 'entertainment'
- we don't place enough emphasis on 'entertainment'
- the game does not engender the same passionate, embedded support as football codes (AFL, football, RL, RU, American football) does
- our best players don't play here
- clubs have failed to build tribal like support
- we pay players too much
- we don't pay players enough
- clubs and teams and players fail to connect with communities
- our rusted on followers, the basketball people, are engaged with the game 12 mths of the year as coaches or referees or parents or players
- we have three man officiating (I know a once senior basketball administrator who still says the NBL started its downhill slide when it went to 3 man officiating)
- we play 40 minutes
- we don't have the jump ball
- we don't "market" the game
- we don't have video highlights packages on the website
- we don't have Lowy
- the league is too expensive to run
- the league doesn't have enough revenue

etc etc etc.

There is no root "problem" or root of the problem - no on can even define the problem they need a root for. There are a bunch of deep seated issues. Heaven help whoever decides to sort it out...

First comment just made on SEN by the NBL chairman...

We respect Andrew Gaze but disagree that sitting out a year is an option, there are people heavily invested in the NBL...

That was how he begun the interview, enough said.

HO, you forgot;

- We don't have enough legends of the game running the sport with their passion and dreams.

...(then six months later)...

- We need to stop using the legends of the game and hire proper businessmen with a commercial background.

NZ players are cheaper

And the segment on The Project was shit

Wortho got cutoff and Gaze had 2mins to toot his own horn

*spoiler alert*

ewe... i left a few etc. in their mate...

Sorry for the tangent but it is staggering to me that the Cats didn't make a profit this season. Huge membership, attendance, and ticket prices somehow still didn't land them in the black? Wow.

Sorry for the tangent but it is staggering to me that the Cats didn't make a profit this season. Huge membership, attendance, and ticket prices somehow still didn't land them in the black? Wow.

Trust me, the Cats are plenty profitable.
However last year or so there was an article highlighting the killing they were making and it drew a lot of negativity. Now every time the Cats raise an issue they are dismissed "what does it matter you're making plenty of money..." So they 're keen to downplay their profitability.
A perfect example is their idea for the Asian Club Cup. They don't want the Cats to be seen as greedy and raking in even more money whilst other clubs flounder, so its all couched in terms of being hard to run a professional team for only 3 months, and how they didn't make as much money this year due to only one home final, etc.

Furthermore, with Marvin being put on the spot regarding the failure of Townsville and Wollongong, last thing they want to encourage is visions of the Cats rolling in cash.
If it has already been mentioned, at some point somebody somewhere is going to suggest a super tax like the AFL has, and the Cats don't want to be sitting ducks.

If you doubt the profitability of the Cats, have a look at their staffing levels...
When they lay off the junior

I was going to say, when they lay off the junior assistant to the deputy t-shirt coordinator, then start wondering.

Koberules said "Is that for real, koberulz? Are you saying that the Wildcats were not profitable this season? Because if so that is pretty damning.
Apparently there was an article in the paper yesterday with Nick Marvin saying they didn't progress far enough into the playoffs to make a profit this year."
You clearly said only 1 team is making a profit which is clearly wrong.
Pretty simple. Why not make a profit before you get into the playoffs? Surely the rest is a bonus.

I suppose Harry thinks that ticket sales shouldn't be factored in to budgets either. That should just be a bonus as well.

Which one? Are you curious too?

Gotta go FoxSports they actually care about the league, The will promote the league like no other. Will play everygame live and will play replays for those who missed them.

You clearly said only 1 team is making a profit which is clearly wrong.
Pretty simple.

benno, they almost killed the league last time.

Gotta go FoxSports they actually care about the league, The will promote the league like no other. Will play everygame live and will play replays for those who missed them.

Nah gotta go the NBL.TV model. They will broadcast portions of some games live and in glorious 16-colour CGA.
Sponsors will be queuing up knowing that the next 5 minute freeze might have their logo on it.

Hope you don't mind that I read your post anyway.

I agree that One/Ten's efforts with the NBL were piss weak. I will never understand why they put so little effort into making their own investment succeed.

Roy Wards article today in the Age is indicating that its more likely to be NBL.TV and Foxtel as the front runners. I still hope they can get some free to air though.

"Negotiations include the league's live streaming with Perform Media, Fox Sports and possibly some of the free-to-air digital channels interested in showing games."

Sorry Kobe, You are seriously suggesting that Perth hasn't made a profit this season gone. "and Perth haven't made one this year" Wow. That should be front page sports news across the country.

The mistake the Wildcats made was taking attendance into account in their budget. If only they had made their budget independent of ticket sales, they would have ended up raking it in at 14 games x 11/12k per game. Marvin should not be making rookie errors like that this far into his career there. NFI. Very arrogant not learning from his predecessors too. If only he had asked Vlahov.

People claiming that foxsports dont care about there sports and program them terribly obiviously havent watched much foxsports. Games live in demand are to good to pass up, foxtel could do a deal with the NBL involving the sports channels, league could make money out of it. Foxtel would be cheaper than NBL.tv and instead of freezing broadcasts you get heaps of channels LOL

If it went to foxtel would they still put the games on NBL.tv??

Even if its on delay??

The mistake the Wildcats made was taking attendance into account in their budget.

And what exactly the fuck do you expect them to base their budget on??? Bobblehead sales???

Plus they've actually had bigger attendances this year, so that kinda blows that theory.

Their big disappointment, monetary wise, is that they played only one home final this year. Those are normally money for jam.

But the Cats are still in good shape.

Why would anyone base their budget on fickle crowd figures anyway. I am certainly interested in a new post from a first timer talking about a losing budget for the Cats.
Clearly Marvin is out of his depth on the NBL Board but certainly news if he's outta his league in charge of the Cats.
If true no wonder the NBL is Farked.

*slaps head*

*slaps Harry's head*

Not true ^

If the Melbourne Tigers were one of the 6 teams and not the United soccer team, I wonder what Gaze's opinion would be.

http://www.6pr.com.au/news/wildcats-targeting-asia-20150311-141l3n.html

A pretty blunt assessment of what direction the league is heading. If you're a struggling club and holding the other teams and league back from growth, you're not wanted.

That was a good listen

It was also good to hear the league fire back for a change. Thankfully, Wollongong showed some class and didn't just point the finger at league HQ for their woes. Townsville were borderline, but not as bad as the Blaze were.

The A-League shut down did not work because of Lowy money as he only owned part of one club (controversially) for 3 years, it did not work because of government money. It was a loan and it was fully repaid with the 1st, very modest TV deal. It worked because of the very many things that differentiate football from basketball in this country (scale, scope and a million other to detailed to mention) and two other key ingredients (1) the right business model and (2) a unified vision and great leadership. A shut down was an option for the NBL a few years back. Not any longer in my view, however the current business model is a dog and as best I can tell the answer is staring basketball in the face but it's stakeholders are too scared to change.

Gaze is on the BA board which gets the NBL rights handed back to it if the league shuts down......,

Mahonjt, do you think the FFA found a money tree to not only fund the relaunch and the running of the league, but also the huge losses many clubs incurred?