Dribbler
Years ago

Are NITP trials a rort?

I believe NITP Has its place, what I don't understand is how BV this year runs a Girls U14 NITP trial over 2 separate trials months apart and charges $100+ for each child for each trial (there is over 300 at the first trial and over 100 at the second, so do your math) and promises that they will pick 8-12 participants from these trials to join the NITP program.

Every child that attended those trials yesterday got the "unfortunately you were unsuccessful" letter.

This is a rort and a money grabbing exercise, beware of this next year when they ask your now bottom age U14 child to attend, with the lure of possibly making NITP.

I am not a disgruntled parent rather a worried observer. I would have been happy to see at least one of those kids that gave up their time (and their parents time ) to attend make it.

Perhaps there should be an ACCC for basketball rorts.

Shame BV ...…Shame

Topic #37610 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know a girl who was successful after attending the trials

Reply #540272 | Report this post


Dribbler  
Years ago

Excellent!, are you sure it was from the U14 trials and not the U16 trials???

Reply #540273 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Ok this is really interesting. I have asked many times about NITP is funded/costed and never had any clear answers.

This does seem like a rort for a try-out, especially with those types of numbers. But it may depend on how the whole program gets funded.

Can anyone answer some further questions for me?

- Once IN the program, what are the weekly, monthly, annual costs?
- I know some programs have camps - are they included or extra and how much?
- Do NITP kids who make state teams get any sort of discount for their participation in the state team, or would they pay the same as any other kid who got selected?
- anything else?

thanks

Reply #540274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The worst part of the cost of NITP is the poor quality of the coaches delivering it and the travel that players/parents have to do to be apart of it in the country regions.....

It has really fallen away !!

Reply #540278 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its fairly convenient timing that these threads about NITP emerge not long after selection emails are sent out. It's pretty simple, if you think its too expensive, don't see the value and don't appreciate the time the coaches put in to make your kid better, then don't participate.

Reply #540281 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

I have big issues with NITP here is SA. Only kids who are 1/2 can attend.

For kids who are at strong clubs, particularly top Div 1clubs where there are many many Div 3's in all ages who could be in Div 1 at other clubs, these kids miss out. Now before everyone gets on board and says, just take them to another club. Especially in the boys. Why should they ?

Why should they leave their club that is close to home, where friends go, which fits in with their schedule (travel time), where their parents a can get them to and have made friends. Why should they move to a lesser club and work under a different philosophy and program. If they move and then deteriorate under another club and don't develop they still miss out.

There needs to be a better system to pick up kids that may be a talent or a better fit. If the boys side want the state to perform better on the national stage then this needs to be addresses. It is not the best players that play Div 1 & 2. There is a big fat It Depends attached to it.

Reply #540286 | Report this post


Dribbler  
Years ago

To # 540272, Perhaps my information was wrong, are you able to at least tell me what club this person was from and was it definitely the U14 NITP trial?

This is not a witch hunt as I would be happy to know that at least someone got through.

If anyone else knows of others that got through , can you please let me know, not names just the club would be fine.

please remember this is the U14 Trial NOT U16

Reply #540291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#286 they don't need to leave their club. If they are happy close to home, playing with friends etc then stay where they are.

But NITP and Elite programs are for those playing in the highest level of competition.

You can't have it both ways.

And NITP is different from the TI Camps which I assume you are talking about.

Reply #540293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Did this D3 "talent" go to the TI camps? You do know TI stands for "Talent Identification"! And if such a strong talent, would absolutely dominate the 2nd camp, and get noticed straight away. Your suggestion that our results on a national stage could be improved by noticing this D3 talent is hilarious!
Talent is identified, no matter where it is playing.
An U/17 representative for Australia from SA was rotating into D2 as recently as the last summer season. Another player in NITP, who was a reserve for his state team, was playing D2 as recently as the end of the summer season at a different club.
There are plenty of issues with NITP, but identifying the talent is not one of them.

Reply #540294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In SA coaches are now being forced to pay for the privilege of coaching at ECC and SCC. All being done to trips that already make profits from players paaying.

This will only decrease the standard of coaches applying and the development the kids get.

Reply #540297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

NITP camps in SA are nothing more than a profit creator for the program.

Player don't need to attend to be selected into NITP.

Reply #540301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

they're not NITP camps.

They're holiday camp money makers for elite kids.

Reply #540303 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Shift your kid to a decent rep program that can offer individuals or has an elite system for the kids that want to do more, problem solved.

Reply #540306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If you don't do the NITP in SA you don't make state teams and are excluded from the pathway.

Reply #540309 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yep
1.take a look at Venues, ours was laughable. Local High School, one court up to 20 players ( male and female ) and local coach. ( Justin would attend every 3 weeks or so )
2. No uniforms
3. Had to pay for the camps$$$$$
4. No written feedback
5. In fact no feedback unless you were the 2 in NPP green and gold uniforms

But hey my son made it 3 years in a rows, so we have bragging rights!

Reply #540310 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Initially in the program and I am talking from a NSW perspective and as a network coach back a number of years ago,the kids use to $50-00 a camp to attend NITP if selected and funding came from Basketball Australia to help cover the rest.

Now I believe the funding has or is going and kids have to pay $500-00 to be a part of it.

Reply #540332 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

NITP funds the resources that go into the NPP athletes....

Reply #540335 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In NSW NITP is $500 per year, camps, gear etc included. It is subsidised, and is an absolute bargain!

Reply #540337 | Report this post


Anonz  
Years ago

Poorly organized, too many nominations, badly funded.

So, yes.

Reply #540500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

NSW NITP is $850 for the coming year as BA have cut funding. It's a bit of a hike.

Reply #540889 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Reply #541109 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How can NSW charge so much and other states don't charge anything

Reply #541141 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

YESSSsssss

Are you kidding me . 100 Counrty Vic players on the cusp of representing their State. Over 60 Boys and over 40 girls. Really !!!

Reply #541163 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

VIC charge I believe.

Reply #541164 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure how much, but Justin said in a press release 170 turned up and 100 made it, wow Vic Country have some talent coming through.

Reply #541167 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So if Vic Country charge like NSW that's $85000 a year.

Reply #541168 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

⇧ wow... thats a full time staffer right there.

Reply #541174 | Report this post


Mike  
Years ago

The VIC program is a farce loaded with the advantaged last year. Don't even bother with them.

Reply #541200 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Makes complete sense.

Reply #541213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is NITP run the same in each state I thought that is was I don't really understand the amounts that these players coaches have to pay

Reply #541299 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Mike McHugh is suppose to be the man in charge of all and he is the invisible man.


Pat Hunt use to be out and about and at camps regularly in nsw NITP year's ago.

Reply #541326 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isn't NITP supposed to be a small group 15 or so Metro and Country players training together once a week the best players for their age in the State to improves their skills and push each other to improve so they can go onto represent their State and even their Country. Reading some of the above posts doesn't sound like it's the players best interest being looked after if these kids / parents are being charged $850 for the privilege it's no surprise that kids pull out change sports. Parents of these players are already paying huge amounts of money for these kids to play weekly if there good enough to then pay $2500 to represent their State why the extra on top and sounds like it's only some states charging ?

Reply #541334 | Report this post


John  
Years ago

BV need a top down restructure been all downhill the last few years.

Reply #541505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Can't see an improvement on the horizon for VICM as their new head coach only has two years of coaching experience, none at the elite level...

Reply #541520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who is the new VicM Head Coach?

Reply #541536 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kristen Veal is the new High Performance Coach for VIC Metro, feedback from those lucky enough to have worked with her at the COE say she was the best there.

Reply #541542 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yep. Easy to get that when you don't have to make the tough calls, are not responsible for the athletes competitive performance.

There is no accountability in these roles. If you have a national program partially funded by ASC and state governments you need to be able to demonstrate uniform outcomes and results. There is no accountability except in pockets where the people in the roles are self motivated and driven and set their own performance measures to deliver.

The accountability and real work is done at the rep club level.






Reply #541545 | Report this post


Nike  
Years ago

Lets wait and see maybe she can turn it around.

Reply #541546 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Oh and now BA is killing off the pathway for the people doing the real work and development how long will they bother volunteering their time for little to no reward. "it's about the athlete" only goes so far with people. If you want basketball to be great build up and strengthen pathways, not weaken them which is what happens everytime a dodgy appointment like this one takes place.

Reply #541548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"The accountability and real work is done at the rep club level."

Absolutely. The vast majority and accountability falls onto the rep programs, they are the ones who spend the most time developing and working with these athletes.

If anything the National programs simply take the credit for other peoples hard work.

Reply #541549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The appointment smacks of nepotism and is a farce. The fact is 95% of VicM coaches have more coaching experience than their "mentor". How can any coach respect her judgements when she doesn't have any experience herself in the areas she is judging others on?

Reply #541556 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think it is absolutely critical to ensure that rep programs are filled with qualified people striving for excellence. These people work incredibly hard for very little to no reward and the athletes that make it ultimately do so as a result of the efforts of these people.

Australian basketball is built on the back of a highly skilled, committed and dedicated workforce and has a tradition of delivering good outcomes globally, relative to other countries where junior development is much higher resourced.

Does BA value this? Why do these people bother? When appointments like this are made the answer is clearly - NO. This is ultimately going to weaken development not strengthen it.

Reply #541557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think coaches involved in rep and state programs have an understanding that their development pathway is dictated by politics just as much as the athletes. Either you're prepared to ride the swings and merry-go-rounds of having association and state people who do and don't like you move through senior roles, or you're not. Plenty (I won't speak for everyone) of us couldn't care less about impressing high performance staff who have little to do with us and usually move on after a couple of years. We're there because we enjoy the game, and working with talented or at least effort-driven kids.

That's also where rep level can be a lot more rewarding for coaches than state or something like NITP. There might be less talent around, but you get a genuine opportunity to engage with it and improve it over a number of years.

Reply #541566 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Two things of note from the recent u16/u18 girls NITP trials were the selection of at least two injured players, one who has a long term injury.
I thought the main criteria was what you did on the day, not any previous performance.
The other was there was no shooting tests done.
Which I thought should be the most significant skill the players need to display.

Reply #541808 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

"I thought the main criteria was what you did on the day, not any previous performance."

You would be wrong then.

Reply #541809 | Report this post


Nick  
Years ago

Wouldn't be to concerned. It's a waist of time.

Reply #541813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"I thought the main criteria was what you did on the day, not any previous performance."


Are you kidding? So if the best U18 player in the State who's dominated everyone for 2 years turns up with an injury and can't trial you're going to say "Oh sorry. Seeya"

Stupid

Reply #541818 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If you were in NITP the previous year and you are injured and cannot trial, you are given "the benefit of the doubt" and are automatically selected. This is the rule of thumb for Vic Country and I will presume for all other States.

Reply #541826 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes there are players and families that are smart and play this system....

Reply #541827 | Report this post


Rort for sure...
Wait till the list of players comes out and there are kids that aren't even in top 100 in state but have a certain surname.
How can a trial be successful if top and bottom age players mixed together with no indication of each....
Coaches at trials that openly admitted they don't know much about Bball but are the team manager...

Reply #541828 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Thanks, that helps clear it up a bit.
So is the squad pretty well picked despite on the day performances?

Reply #541829 | Report this post


Not sure  
Years ago

Not sure about NITP however SSV selections are about players that have been considered before trials.

Reply #541836 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry what's SSV

Reply #541840 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

School Sports Victoria I am presuming.

Reply #541842 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As I have had a child go through NITP and have watched the process over a few years I think for the most part they actually choose the right kids & just because you make it one year doesn't guarantee that it will be the case the following it takes determination and willingness by the players to improve and commitment from the player & parents. It's not for all I've seen players come and go, other players given a shot. At the end of the day it's about the opportunity to improve and excel at an Elite level. If your child's missed out this year it means they need to work harder, as we all know kids develop at different ages grow, improve get stronger this can make a massive difference for some in twelve months the whole height thing is huge and it does take the taller kids longer for things to come together some will get there some won't. If it's meant to be it will.

Reply #541846 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

At ^ anon I too had my child make NITP and once she was selected I could not care less about others. We are all about our own children. BUT be true to this thread many are simply chosen to make up numbers an I question your understanding of Elite. You cannot in your right mind think that the 600+ plus players in NITP programs in Australia can be Elite.

Reply #541851 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow 600+ not sure how you came up with that figure 16/17 players each State & yes it is the Elite players in our State or the players who show potential due to height to be Elite & no I haven't forgotten the " others " we have other children who wanted to follow that dream who don't have the same talent & dedication we also have friends who have kids going through the system now. I'm just saying as parents support your kids provide the opportunity to get them where they need to be & let them have fun. NITP or not !

Reply #541865 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

865 which State are you from ?. I agree with other anon. My son is in NITP in Geelong and this year we have over 20 players who have been selected from 3 associations. We are 1 of many Satellite venues in Country Victoria and I would also like to discharge the myth about the age of players being selected. In our group the players are 15, 16 and a couple will turn 17 during the year. So to presume there is possibly 600 plus in programs is not unreasonable.

Reply #541868 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SA and I believe the current program which consists of metro / country players have an elite group of 16-18 players with ages from youngest being 14 oldest 16

Reply #541869 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Are the couple of kids turning 17 this year in the Australian system / squads ?If not I think there too old for the program I could be wrong but ....

Reply #541871 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow we may have 16/18 who make NPP but NITP is stacked.

Reply #541873 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes we have 1 in current U17 team but he was in NPP, others have played State as bottom age this year

Reply #541874 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What's NPP ?

Reply #541875 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They will turn 17 next year but as NITP is just starting in Vic they are in until U18 Natinals next year.

Reply #541876 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

National Performance Program

Reply #541877 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So made the Aus Camp ?

Reply #541880 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

???? U17 team to play in qualifier next week in NZ. Camps all done and dusted.

Reply #541884 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So not 17 this year 16 so "done and dusted "

Reply #541885 | Report this post


pallas 75  
Years ago

NSW do not have trials, you send in an application and someone from BNSW chooses the 120 or so for NSW program, This selection is very hush hush as with D League where there are no formal announcements on websites just emails, If this is so elite why is it so secretive.

Reply #548007 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Talent in NSW is selected at U13 with All Stars, then again at U14 and U15 TAP camps. These programs are selected by trial, and then the kids are assessed at these camps, as well as holiday camps, rep games etc. D-league and EEC are extra on top.

At least that is how it has been.

Reply #548013 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Then if they are selected at U13 All Star, TAP etc. why not just ask the players who are deemed good enough to participate, instead of asking everyone to apply then get very disappointed children who were never in the running for a position.

Reply #548124 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes, i agree with this. This year the application was posted so anyone could apply, whereas in previous years applications were sent only to those that had attended TAP. I am not sure why the change, but things may change now that Mark has left.

If your child missed out and is disappointed, tell them to keep trying. Get in front of the BNSW coaches at every opportunity by attending holiday camps, attending all trials etc. NITP starts at bottom age U14 i think. My child was a late starter and was taken in 12 months later, and i know of 2 others that came in after that, so don't give up.

There is of course other development opportunities. NITP is not as cheap as it was, and the money can be sent on private coaching as well as any development your association provides. The good thing about NSW NITP is that exclusion does not exclude your child from D-League, ECC, and State. These are treated separately, so if you are good enough you can get selected.

Reply #548168 | Report this post




 

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