Tex mex
Years ago

Big V Divy 2s

Whats the Big V going to do with the D2m and D2W with Mornington pulling the pin?

In the women 8 teams this year, Pakenham are apparently reconsidering the womens team, Mornington pull out and Chelsea go up. With rumoured expansion of Championship there wont be a team dropping down. Will they run a 5 team comp?

For the men, Keysborough will be promoted. Westernport have stated before the playoffs started they are going up and rightfully so, Coburg and Pakenham are both interested in going to D1 on recent performances on clubs being promoted and again expansion of SCM its hard to argue. Mornington dropping out will reduce that comp to next to nothing.

Some decisions need to be made

Topic #37858 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Merge D1 & D2

Reply #547297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not a bad idea.

State Champ, then Big V (one division 2,3 or 4 conferences) with strict promotion and relegation, then YLs.

Reply #547298 | Report this post


Is it confirmed they have pulled the pin?

Reply #547301 | Report this post


Should of added is that YL aswell?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Who is heading up to SCM....

Reply #547305 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

State Champ - 16 teams (two conferences of 8)
State Champ Youth - 16 teams (two conferences of 8)

State Reserve - 20 teams (two conferences of 10)
State Reserve Youth - 20 teams (two conferences of 10)

Make the rest of the teams play MMBL, and implement a pro/rel policy and actually enforce it. Must finish top two in MMBL to then be promoted to Big V, then same/same with being relegated

Would make for a lot stronger and more manageable league, resources could be better used, MMBL would grow and so on.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon

Great reply, unfortunately will never happen

The Big V are a greedy bunch of people who would rather have so many teams in the comp so they can all get paid than running a decent comp.

This is why team such as Mornington have to fold. Have a look down there, if you are a decent player you can play for Frankston, Mornington, Western Port, Chelsea, McKinnon - all pretty much a short drive to each other.

The BigV is about making money rather than making a good brand - if you look at SEABL they have only expended a few teams over the years and that's why I would go a pay to see a SEABL game of a SCM game.

Really could you see Curio Bay or McKinnon being competitive in SEABL - too many teams makes the talent thin across the league.

When BigV was VBL you never saw imports in Div1 now we see them in Div1 and Div2, why? Because there is not enough local talent to cover the team.

BigV is a joke and just a chance for the board to grab some cash over putting together a great product...

Reply #547310 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Mate maybe grab a copy of the Big V financials that get sent to us and see that Big V by no means makes money. Stupid post from an ignorant fool.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Casey are definitely going to SCM, that's apparently all organised.

Warrnambool are looking into it as well. Chelsea want to but would be silly to do so as it would not be sustainable.

Reply #547320 | Report this post


Mark  
Years ago

I like the idea of a simple structure.

State Champ - 16 teams (two conferences of 8)

State Reserve - 20 teams (two conferences of 10)

Promotion and relegation in and out of CBL and MMBL. Have YL ran mid week as a proper extension of VJBL. These comps can run mid week to open up resources, you then have the best teams and best players, best refs, all in a more elite comp without losing the senior pathway.



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Anonymous  
Years ago

BIG V makes money??? Check the finacials mate they end up with a balance close to zero ha ha, great post go home you`re drunk.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No freaking way should youth league run mid week, Mark you are absolutely wrong, wrong, wrong with that idea! Youth league is not an extension of the VJBl, never should be and your suggestion is just stupid, dumb and with no facts behind it.

Saturday and Sunday for youth league is working fine, no need to break something that is working, the other concept for seniors is good though, because it might actually improve something, but leave youth league alone, period!

Reply #547332 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Div Two will always be there. As there needs to be a starting place and somewhere for teams to bottom out I guess.

A lot of teams who are now in higher divisions have all been there at one time or another.

Mckinnon
Southern Pen
Whittlesea
Hawthorn
Warrandyte


fact is there is probably a fair few of the larger associations that deserve to fall down to this level due to the standards they have dished up over a few years now. The fact is they will have the cash and resources to stop that from ever happening.

Merge D2 and D1??? Then you end up with 5-8 team who will simply be training fodder for the rest of the teams.

They maybe able to recruit from elsewhere as they can now call themselves a D1 team.

With the inclusion of Youth and D league a few years back. We saw the bigger clubs be able to retain for a another 5 years at least the junior players that were not good enough to make there state champ or seabl teams. These players used to filter out into other BIG V/VBL clubs.

The result was those Divisional leagues were much stronger then that of today.

Some clubs would then have a State champ side and a Divisonal side. The second side had no age restriction like today but was filled with senor players better suited to make the jump to higher divisions.

The negative was that some of these teams were stocked with older players who just wouldn`t give it away when they needed to.

As with junior rep there is 100`s of players now playing at a so called elite level that don`t deserve to be there. Positive is participation is up. Negative is talent is stretched further and as one person stated above there are teams using imports in D2 now just to survive.

D2 Men Craigieburn, Keysborough and Westernport finish top 3, with out there imports they arent there. In the women`s Chelsea have an import and win the title, they lose to a team with out and import if this isn`t the case.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Then maybe we need to look at limiting the amount of imports or what they are paid?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Imports should be resevered for D1 and above. If the club can`t feild a team from what they have locally they are not ready for that level yet.

Argument made for a country side as they have less to pool from. With that said i belive all country teams are in D1 or above with the exception of North East who are only two years young in the league and don`t have imports.

Reply #547346 | Report this post


Realistic....  
Years ago

A simple bit of research shows that you could, quite easily, create a two-teir competition for both the Men's and Women's Big V competitions.

In the Men's there are 38 teams if you leave Mornington out. 13 in SCM, 16 in D1 & 10 in D2. The new look comp would have 18 in SCM (Playing in two 9-team Confs with 25 gmaes) and 20 in Div league (Playing in four 5-team Conf playing 23 games).

In Women's there are 30 teams with 11 in SCW, 11 in D1 & 8 in D2. The new look comp would have 14 in SCW (playing each other twice for 26 games) and a 16 in Div League (playing two 8 team conf with 22 games).

Yes, some D2 teams would get beaten up in the new Div league but if you want to play get better! I think finding the teams to go up to SC wouldn't be that hard and everyone plays a decent number of games.

There should, but won't be, straight relegation / promotion at all levels (SC to Div to MMBL)

Would be interested in your thoughts?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Div 1 straight into SC promotion can never happen. The current model where the winner has to show they can recruit either locally or through imports is a good idea. The gap between leagues right now is huge. just as the jump from D2 to D1 one is.

Last time I remeber conferences was in D2 in the early to mid 2000`s

Three conferences, top two from each made finals automatically and the two best placed 3rd team made the 7th and 8th spot.

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HO  
Years ago

Realistic. If you want to make the competition better, you do not achieve that by making two levels out of three and therefore making them bigger.

With 38 men's teams, you would go the other way, and consider four divisions. That way, you allow for the right growth at the right end.

Reply #547437 | Report this post


titan  
Years ago

The Jump from D2 to D1 is massive! Look at Craigieburn, barely win a game for two years in D1M then drop down and spend most of the season on top of D2M

Reply #547439 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Yet Shep, who won D2 in 2014, finished top four in D1 in 2015.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

And Melton who won D2 Championship in 2013 won the D1 Championship in 2015. It can be done.

Reply #547461 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Can anyone say with some experience or knowledge about the incentives in playing Champs compared with D1 and then D2?

Other than the obvious incentives, perhaps offering a sponsor the benefit of being involved with a program playing at a high level of basketball for recognition or the pride and recognition of achievement at your Association and amongst your peers.

What incentives or benefits does an Association get if the play in a higher league, compared with a lower one, is there any money or something else you get from BV?

Curious to know if I am missing something valid in this argument...

Reply #547476 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is about offering a good level of competition, people play to win and play at as higher level as possible, people don't bust chops to play in a league beneath there skill level and want to just walking in a smash teams every week!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Shep and Melton were young sides so still improving. The jump for them was good as they will keep getting better. Craigieburn didn`t have that same youth nor has Casey, will be interesting if it is sustainable.

Keysborough by far the oldest side in D2 and have just won and will go up. I am sure Coach Vogt will be looking around for new players to top up the list to help out at the next level.

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Bear  
Years ago

Thanks anon #479, I probably should have added the development opportunity and vehicle for improving the standard by offering players to stay and play at a higher level, but that doesn't always happen.

Plenty of examples where the amount of money paid to players to come across from elsewhere or imports who come in to make an Association capable of competing at the higher Divisions.

So, my question is more about what is not so obviously considered an incentive to perhaps go and spend $40k+ on a State Champs team, rather than far less for a D2 or D1 in comparison?

If it is just to play at a higher level, fine, but maybe someone is aware of other reasons Associations will put so much into their number one senior teams?

I am not sure the crowd numbers between Divisions in the Big V are that outrageously different as to warrant the cash spend for the return on investment, and I know sponsor dollars are crucial to everyone, so what do we get back for all the effort and dollars?

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Bear  
Years ago

By the way, I am not critical of anything in this process or the amount spent, I am just asking the question...

Reply #547497 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Crowds are actually bigger in the lower divisions

Reply #547552 | Report this post


Dwayne Pipe  
Years ago

Depends on the Association anon ^^

Reply #547559 | Report this post


Mim  
Years ago

Have to agree with Anon, went to a SCM game and counted the crowd of 9 people

Reply #547622 | Report this post


Dane Suttle  
Years ago

Div 2 is an important pathway for clubs to use to help develop their juniors and junior programs. My club entered Div 2 this year and although our win-loss record wasn't what the club hoped for, we played mostly local players, which helped to drive our support. Our stadium is extremely poor when compared to all the others, no grand stand, temporary seating etc, yet we filled it most games. A number of clubs congratulated us on the game day experience we offered and on the crowd support.

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Anon  
Years ago

So why do you think the crowds are bigger at the lower level games? Not saying I don't agree, just wondering why they get bigger crowds.

Do they have more local players? Therefore having more local engagement.
Do they let everyone in for free or something like that?

I went to a Ringwood SCW and a Sth Pen SCW game this season and both crowds were pretty big. Also went to a Blackburn D2W game, and that crowd was ok, but nothing too crazy.

Reply #547873 | Report this post


Justforlaughs  
Years ago

#547320 just to clear something up, Casey men staying in Div 1, and Matt Witherton has retired. They attempted to bring Matt Peoble back but are unable to do so.

Reply #556273 | Report this post


Baller6  
Years ago

Sherbrooke Woman's team down to Div 1 I hear, Brian V gone as well.

Reply #556275 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

You sure Brian has gone? Thought i saw a media release saying he was still their coach.

Reply #556276 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

definitley gone..new coach,Gary Jones according to people who saw it on facebook

Reply #556291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Justforlaughs why bring that up? Breath life in a topic that's been forgotten about for a while.

Have people stopped paying your club attention?

Reply #556296 | Report this post


Mad Hatter 3.0  
Years ago

#556273 - with Casey staying in Div 1 does that mean Tindal going back to Mornington. Another thread had him playing if made SCM.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Promotion and relegation in and out of CBL and MMBL. Have YL ran mid week as a proper extension of VJBL.

These are the worst and most unworkable ideas ever!

Reply #556346 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Looking for a Facebook post about Brian V leaving Sherbrooke, can't find anything. Anyone got a source on that??

Reply #556356 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago


Gary Jones
18 October at 15:46 ·
Shout out to any basketballers who are interested in playing big v div 1 women's for sherbrooke suns l have the great honour of being asked to coach this team which l have proudly accepted so any one interested please come down to belgrave Christian college tomorrow night monday 6 30pm . to 8pm registrations from 6pm all welcome

Reply #556406 | Report this post




 

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