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Sinan Mortan
Two years ago

#38343

Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I dont understand why a team down 10 points with 10 seconds to go in the game still go for a basket. F... the crocs for messing up my bet..

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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
21:17 30 Oct 15

Reply #560024

re: Inferiority Complex

Because of the points differential for tie breakers at seasons end. Unlucky.


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Touch the rim
Two years ago
21:26 30 Oct 15

Reply #560027

re: Inferiority Complex

I probably wouldn't say bad luck, more like bad management (of funds).

If you throw money on something, you should be prepared for these types of things. And account for them. That one's on you, Mortan!


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Isaac
Two years ago
21:26 30 Oct 15

Reply #560029

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I wish teams would try to score whenever they have the chance. Up with 5 seconds left, launch a prayer anyway. People are paying to see basketball, not someone dribbling out the clock.


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MACDUB
Two years ago
21:33 30 Oct 15

Reply #560031

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Couldnt agree more.

Teams should always try launch prayers whenever they get the chance. Hate this whole 'protecting of the shooting %'s crap'.

If it was a two point game at the end you'd wish you had an opportunity to throw a prayer..so why not take that opportunity whenever you can get it.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
21:39 30 Oct 15

Reply #560033

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Noticed Jason Cadee wasn't keen on throwing the hail mary at 3qtr time until the siren had sounded...


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Anonymous
Two years ago
00:00 31 Oct 15

Reply #560054

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

What's the point of launching a shot that has a 0.1% chance of going in? Unless you're inside the half its just stupid


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Woody
Two years ago
00:22 31 Oct 15

Reply #560056

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Guys Basketball Etiquette you just don't take a shot when the game is over an there is less time on the game Clock than there is on the shot Clock.

Anyone who grew up playing the game with a Coach with values and principals will tell you that. Not even in Rec League I do not lim eit.

It is like Mankadding a batsman in a game of cricket IMO.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
00:49 31 Oct 15

Reply #560057

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Respect in bot making the loss worse. In the NBA where there are 82 games with less opportunities for play off spots to come down to the 82nd game they don't do it. NBL season is shorter with a bigger chance the tiebreak comes in so while I don't like it I understand why they do it


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Anonymous
Two years ago
06:19 31 Oct 15

Reply #560063

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Guy just upset he lost line bet. That's the risk you take with line bets.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
08:08 31 Oct 15

Reply #560068

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

No matter what the state of the game is or the score players should not have to take a turnover because of basketball etiquette.

If you are well up and there is less time on the shot clock compared to the game clock well you just dribble the clock out.

If the time remaining on the shot clock requires you to the shoot the ball then the defensive team better be defending them because I would expect the offensive team to try and score, no matter what the margin is !!

And if the head to head split is a factor then I have no issue at all with teams trying to obtain that advantage.


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Isaac
Two years ago
08:34 31 Oct 15

Reply #560069

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Screw the etiquette, I think it's silly. And 0.1% > 0%, so why not.


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Callisto 75
Two years ago
08:42 31 Oct 15

Reply #560071

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

In the NBL it is important to play games out especially with tie breakers. In other leagues when it isn't agree it is bad etiquette.


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MACDUB
Two years ago
10:10 31 Oct 15

Reply #560076

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

For me its totally illogical that teams don't take the long prayers at the end of the quarters.

As mentioned, you should take any opportunity you can to make a bucket..even if the %'s aren't on your side.

What if your team loses by 2 or 3..

By not taking the prayer your basically saying that the game won't be close enough at the end for it not to have an influence..even though quite a few games are decided by a couple of points.


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Kobe24
Two years ago
10:21 31 Oct 15

Reply #560078

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Agreed, take the shot, if your worried about percentages your heart is in the wrong place. Etiquette is so over rated, and in this league like people have said point spreads do come in to it. As for line betting, bet your hating corey Maynard right now for that last jumper haha


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:40 31 Oct 15

Reply #560081

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Cussy knows best.


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PeterJohn
Two years ago
11:16 31 Oct 15

Reply #560082

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

It's a bit ludicrous to use etiquette as a reason not to take the shot in a sport where professional fouling is acceptable and used as a tactic. Take the shot, every time.


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Train
Two years ago
11:39 31 Oct 15

Reply #560084

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Remember THAT game between 36ers and Cats when Ervin went nuts and Greg Hire for taking a shot in the dying seconds of the game lol

But yeah I'm all for taking a shot no matter how far in front you are. We are in a league where the points spread and pts % can determine where you finish on the ladder. Imagine missing out on the minor premiership spot and a home final because you were up by 20 and didn't want to hurt a teams feelings by taking that last shot.

The etiquette thing is pretty stupid and comes across as a bit of a "sore loser" impression IMO.


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hotshots
Two years ago
11:42 31 Oct 15

Reply #560085

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

using etiquette as an excuse than can be turned around saying "oh if a team is down 20 with 2 mins to go, we should stop the game because there is no point"
people pay because they want to watch a game of ball not some soft bs


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:55 31 Oct 15

Reply #560086

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

In my experience if someone tried to score in the lane in the last few seconds with time running out got absolutely hammered and if they took a perimeter shots it was always mentioned in after game huddle as motivation for next game you played them and more often than not got the revenge that game. Players are soft today. In the 80s/90s would definitely have been some push and shove.
Definitely falls in the etiquette side of the game. Like when Ricky Davis was 1 rebound short of a triple double and threw it of own backboard in final seconds. Poor form.
As for original bet, bad luck, that's why it's called a bet.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
12:00 31 Oct 15

Reply #560089

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

The etiquette thing is total BS.
It should be totally up to the team with the ball as to whether they want to score or not.
For most of the NBL season it's a no-brainer that teams should strive for the biggest winning margin they can get.
When it's at a stage that it no longer matters, then do what you like. I respect going for more points. Scoring points is fun! I also respect a team that holds the ball up and dribbles out the clock, because why risk an injury for meaningless points.

But anyone who gets upset about an opponent who tries to score a basket on them in a game of basketball is just a tool. Exhibit A: Gary Ervin.


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you must be joking
Two years ago
12:13 31 Oct 15

Reply #560090

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

etiquette what crap. fans pay to see a game and scoring is part of a game. Players like to score also.


By the etiquette theory, if you are 20 pts up you in the last Quarter you shouldnt score again as the game is over.

Game should be played out as determined by the team with the ball. If the losing team does not want to be scored against, PLAY D.


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Train
Two years ago
12:17 31 Oct 15

Reply #560092

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Whats the etiquette ruling if a team is up by 20 points and gets a fast break with 5 seconds left. What should the player do. Does he dunk it? Or just go nah that just be bad manners. Stupid.


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mav dav
Two years ago
12:46 31 Oct 15

Reply #560095

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

teams can never replicate game pressure at practice, no mater the score or the qtr they should always put themselves in a position to execute under pressure, even it means calling a timeout with 20 sec to go up 10 or down 20, its all learning under game pressure,

saw a junior girls game last night, losing team called a time out with 40 seconds to go down 12 to give the girls a chance to execute a side ball play under game pressure, winning team did the same up 12 with 20 sec to go, both experienced coaches been around a long time, they both knew way they did it and there was no issue at all.


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paul
Two years ago
13:44 31 Oct 15

Reply #560097

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I agree with the last few posts, teams can do whatever they want.


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
13:54 31 Oct 15

Reply #560098

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I agree with the last few posts, as well as the one directly before mine.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:55 31 Oct 15

Reply #560116

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Look up (I think) nick young dunking with seconds to go while winning and how he then apologised to the other team. In the NBA the etiquette thing is pretty well engrained. If it's not in the NBL then play to the last second. It's a league thing not a basketball thing.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:57 31 Oct 15

Reply #560117

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Not nick young, Evan turner


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Mick
Two years ago
18:36 31 Oct 15

Reply #560141

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

What's even more annoying than this is guys who intentionally launch a half second after the buzzer at qtr/half time so the prayer shot doesn't affect their percentage but it looks like they tried to get a shot off but weren't quick enough.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:27 2 Nov 15

Reply #560592

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

"Anyone who grew up playing the game with a Coach with values and principals will tell you that"

I grew up playing with plenty of coaches that had impeccable values.....and I've been one myself for 16 years. I'm not too sure where all this "etiquette" nonsense comes into play but every coach I ever had always said the game is over when the clock hits zero and you play hard for every second. That's what my team is told now.
If it's a blowout in our favour our benchies will be on the floor so I'll be running a play for someone who doesn't get to hit the scoring column too much so our starters can get into the towel waving when their mate nails a 3 and loves it. If it's a blowout against us....we don't give up. It's that simple


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DeAndre Goorjian
Two years ago
13:12 2 Nov 15

Reply #560596

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Would have loved Greg Hire to come in and drain a 3 at the last second on the Hawks on Sat. ;)

Will then dub him the "Salt Rubber"


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Bear
Two years ago
13:44 2 Nov 15

Reply #560598

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Playing Devil's Advocate a little bit here, I have no problem in the sportsmanship of a player not jacking up a last second prayer when the game is done and dusted.

Players are the ones who determine this, so if players in that league or level of competition self-determine that it isn't done then it isn't done.

I for one like to see last seconds wound down and players shaking hands in recognition that the game is over with no chance to change the result in the dying seconds.

That's the point missed here I think, it is the dying seconds, not last few minutes, so no point in showing off or looking like a dick at this level, just like no point in looking like a spoit brat at the lower or junior levels.

If the players all encourage it, for whatever reason, then fine go and jack up that last hero throw, but it's the players who determine this at the time - no one else IMHO...


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paul
Two years ago
13:52 2 Nov 15

Reply #560602

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Some good points there Bear, although in comps like the NBL where points differential can be important I'd imagine some coaches instruct players to play until the final whistle.


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LV
Two years ago
14:05 2 Nov 15

Reply #560603

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

To be honest, I see no point in *not* playing out the final seconds.

I mean, what is the reasoning here? That the result is beyond doubt and so we shouldn't be a "hero" with 10 seconds to go? Well, where do we draw the line here? If there’s 15 points the difference then do we stop playing with 10 seconds to go, or a minute and a half left? What if there’s 25 points the difference?

Why not just play until the final siren and then shake hands? Isn’t that far simpler?

Another reason: We fans pay top dollar to watch the best basketball players in this country, so they should do the right thing and play until the final siren.

Likewise, I pay good dollars in tolls/parking/Rego/Game fees to play in weeknight bball comps, so just play it out, boys. That’s what we’re here for.

Sure, if every other player on the court stopped dead in their tracks then I wouldn’t try and grab the ball off an opponent and try a half court shot. I’d respect that for all intents and purposes, everyone else had stopped playing. But I do question why they would do that in the first place, and I’ll never be the first guy who stops before the siren sounds.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
14:25 2 Nov 15

Reply #560606

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Facepalm!


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LV
Two years ago
14:30 2 Nov 15

Reply #560607

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Why is it a facepalm?

Seriously- Why is it "bad sportsmanship" to keep playing once the game is “done and dusted” (as Bear put it)?

If that is the case, then it's equally unsportsmanlike to put a shot up with 30 seconds to go in a lopsided game. It’s impossible to make up a 20 point margin in 30 seconds. So if we’re basing this on when the game is “done and dusted” ..... and who gets to decide that?

As I said- I respect the decision of the majority. If my opponent wants to stop playing, I’ll go along with that etiquette in that moment. But I still think it’s totally unnecessary.

Shake hands after the game ends. When the game ends, stop playing the game. Easy.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
14:41 2 Nov 15

Reply #560611

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

This thread started with a punter having a whinge over a lost bet a few weeks ago and it is still getting posts....

The points differential for tie breakers in a short NBL season means every possession needs to be played out. Simples.

Keep posting your unlucky gambling stories and I'll keep not feeling sorry for you.


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LV
Two years ago
14:54 2 Nov 15

Reply #560614

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

It's an interesting topic for me. I had a run in with a team mate a few years ago where he stopped playing and I was told him to keep playing.

I've played high level juniors and high level weeknight ball and I'd always just thought the typical scenario was that the game loses intensity gradually and descends into "junk time" depending on the margin. But I'd never seen someone literally completely stop playing with time on the clock until this one night.

I told him to stop pretending he was in the NBA and play till the buzzer. A few weeks later I hit a meaningless half court shot on the buzzer (in junk time, others hadn't stopped). And I may have let him know I enjoyed that.

I've softened my Stance since then as its happened a few times and its not worth arguing about (my teammate and I still play A grade together).

It depends which stadium and area you play in, I think. But yeah, until a few years ago I'd assumed this only happens in the pros, where the winning team wants a few extra seconds of adoration from the crowd and no one wants to get injuries. It was only then that I realised social players do it too and that its a issue of sportsmanship for some ppl, not a cut and dry issue of playing to the buzzer like I had always thought....


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Isaac
Two years ago
17:08 2 Nov 15

Reply #560629

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I for one like to see last seconds wound down and players shaking hands in recognition that the game is over with no chance to change the result in the dying seconds.
They have all post-game to shake hands and wind down.
That's the point missed here I think, it is the dying seconds, not last few minutes, so no point in showing off or looking like a dick at this level, just like no point in looking like a spoit brat at the lower or junior levels.
I think it's silly that "playing more basketball" is considered poor etiquette. If the game is beyond doubt, sub out the stars and let the scrubs get tested for 30 seconds in front of a crowd.


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rjd
Two years ago
17:15 2 Nov 15

Reply #560631

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

This supposed etiquette is just nonsensical.

Sport is a competition. I cannot think of anything more disrespectful to the spirit of competition than intentionally not trying. These are competitions that rely on more than just the W/L result column. The NBL is a professional competition at that, so you expect teams to compete for the full 40 minutes.

The existence of sports betting makes any attempts to preserve a margin, as happens when just dribbling out the clock, all the more suspicious and all the more potentially unethical.

Where did this silly idea that dribbling out the clock is somehow showing respect for the losing side? It disrespects the opposition, it disrespects fans who pay to see action and both teams trying for the full 40 minutes, and it disrespects the fundamental principle of a sporting competition.


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koberulz
Two years ago
17:29 2 Nov 15

Reply #560637

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Was going to say pretty much exactly what rjd just said.


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paul
Two years ago
17:50 2 Nov 15

Reply #560647

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Good points rjd. Obviously the issue is 10 minute quarters. If they were 12 minutes there'd be extra time for players to wind down.


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Dazz
Two years ago
17:59 2 Nov 15

Reply #560648

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

What's this "etiquette"?
One of the greatest finishes to an already won game was back in the 90's, I think it was v the Tigers, Perth got the ball back with seconds to go, and Matt Earp threw it one-handed from around half-court and drained it.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
17:59 2 Nov 15

Reply #560649

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

NO need what so ever when you are up by many to shoot. Utter bollocks. Run the clock down by all means.


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paul
Two years ago
18:05 2 Nov 15

Reply #560652

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Apart from potentially making the playoffs?


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
18:06 2 Nov 15

Reply #560653

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Why anon?


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you must be joking
Two years ago
20:10 2 Nov 15

Reply #560672

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

bring in the mercy rule, stop the game when one team cannot win!!!! LOL

Not scoring is crap, play it out, last min the same as the 1st min!

Even more crap is teams fouling when 10 pts down and 20secs to go, that drags the game out for another 5 mins with foul shots.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:23 2 Nov 15

Reply #560675

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Jesus Christ all these people getting furious about the winning score not being a possible TWO POINTS more. Bigger things to worry about


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:32 2 Nov 15

Reply #560676

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Hell you are up lots of points and you are suggesting that not putting up a shot is wrong. Go away. Run the clock down and piss off the opposition more. Call a time out even with 15 secs to go. Make them even more pissed off.


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Dazz
Two years ago
21:14 2 Nov 15

Reply #560682

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

It's weird, peoples points of view.
To me, standing there bouncing the ball, effectively saying "haha we've won already, we don't even need to try" is disrespectful in my opinion.
Play to the buzzer.


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snooch
Two years ago
23:24 2 Nov 15

Reply #560697

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

If it's so crucial to play out the clock at all costs, because the last minute is as important as the first, playoffs are on the line and the rest of it - why then pull your starters and play the bench when the result is beyond doubt?


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Dazz
Two years ago
23:36 2 Nov 15

Reply #560699

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

If it's so crucial to play out the clock at all costs, because the last minute is as important as the first, playoffs are on the line and the rest of it - why then pull your starters and play the bench when the result is beyond doubt?

What's your point? You imply disparity where none exists.
Getting minutes into your bench and DPs is valuable, as is scoring points, so they should try to do both.
Which is all the more reason for Hire, who hadn't hit shit all night, to take a shot.
The Cats win put them 2-0 in the h2h, if they were going to 1-1, Gleeson may have kept the big scorers on the court a fraction longer


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Anonymous
Two years ago
06:51 3 Nov 15

Reply #560707

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Many posts here miss the point altogether. It is dying seconds only, so maybe last 10-15 seconds under the shot clock and with no value to anyone when the game is over that would see this happen, not where another possession could be attained.

So many posts, just have no idea, instead making up their own versions of something that is decided during games, between players on the spur of the moment regardless!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
07:32 3 Nov 15

Reply #560709

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Every possession matters when points difference is involved.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
08:51 3 Nov 15

Reply #560719

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Exactly right 707. The game is over. If points spread is involved who cares. Do what ever it takes to get the W.


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rjd
Two years ago
23:53 3 Nov 15

Reply #560882

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

I also think it sucks in blowout situations for the bench players who rarely get an opportunity. I always liked to see those guys have a go, whether it is garbage time or not.


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Bear
Two years ago
07:45 4 Nov 15

Reply #560891

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Garbage time would be about several minutes, in a blow out game you would still expect your bench to go out and try hard, see what they can do in a short time.

Last few seconds is not garbage time, it is game end time, two different things, I would expect to see bench players also wind down the final few seconds in that case...


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paul
Two years ago
08:54 4 Nov 15

Reply #560897

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

What, and potentially miss the playoffs as a result?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:24 4 Nov 15

Reply #560903

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Everyone will know exactly what the points spread required is Paul. They wouldn't jeopardise that what so ever. It's garbage time and every chance it's already a blow out.


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paul
Two years ago
11:00 4 Nov 15

Reply #560920

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Particularly this early in the season it's impossible to know which teams points spread will count against, so a smart team will keep trying to score.

Remember, an Ian Crosswhite triple when a game was over mid-season effectively got the Kings into the playoffs over Melbourne in 2012-ish.


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koberulz
Two years ago
14:18 4 Nov 15

Reply #560966

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

Would've been 2013. That's the only year the Kings have made the playoffs since 2008.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:38 4 Nov 15

Reply #561128

re: Scoring when the game's beyond doubt

So whats the point in fouling with 12 secs to go and you are 12 points down like tonight?


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