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_Strungout_
Last year

#39804

Liz and the Opals

Liz was awesome all tournament.

I don't have lineup data although it seemed like at times the Opals played better when she was on the bench.

Players like Penny had more room to drive and create for themselves or others. When Liz is out there on the floor players are just basically driving into her and her defender.

The defense also seemed to click better in that preferred switching style when she was out of the game.

Could running her with the second unit be a potential option? She would be going against backups (and she would eat them up), avoid early fouls and the subbing could be structured to put 4 shooters around her to give her plenty of room to operate. She would essentially be the lone offensive focus of this group in 3-5 minute bursts although there would be enough firepower around the 3pt line to make the other team pay if they send too many players to help.

I'm thinking it wouldn't be an option Liz would be very receptive to.

So far the results in the international tournaments she has played in have been below expectations (London, Rio). She has given her all and isn't the reason for this although the 2nd unit option may be worth experimenting with in the lead up to the next international tournament she plays in.

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Anonymous
Last year
17:36 17 Aug 16

Reply #595686

re: Liz and the Opals

Youve got more chance of Donald Trump endorsing Hilary than getting Liz Cambage coming off the bench. She was dominant and actually couldve been utilised more.


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_Strungout_
Last year
17:40 17 Aug 16

Reply #595692

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz was dominant although the team didn't play well together.

Liz scoring a contested 2 on one end and giving up a wide open 3 down the other end because she can't guard a pick n pop doesn't lead wins. Neither does players like Penny not being able to play their own game while Liz is on the court.


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Anon
Last year
17:43 17 Aug 16

Reply #595693

re: Liz and the Opals

^glad your not coaching.


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Luuuc
Last year
17:47 17 Aug 16

Reply #595696

re: Liz and the Opals

Game 1: Liz +15 in 29 min; No Liz + 3 in 11 min
Game 2: Liz +14 in 23 min; No Liz - 9 in 17 min
Game 3: Liz + 9 in 15 min; No Liz + 9 in 25 min
Game 4: Liz +23 in 25 min; No Liz -17 in 15 min
Game 5: Liz - 1 in 23 min; No Liz + 9 in 17 min
Game 6: Liz +11 in 27 min; No Liz -13 in 13 min


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spot up
Last year
18:01 17 Aug 16

Reply #595700

re: Liz and the Opals

She was clearly the most dominant player on the court for the Opals. Probably best to keep her on the court.


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Caps Fan
Last year
18:30 17 Aug 16

Reply #595707

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz needs a coach who can get Liz to buy totally into a philosophy of the game. a philosophy that gets Liz to play like an experienced mature superstar, who works at her game, fitness and team work, one who talented players want to play with, and not as a "take me as I am or not at all" individual.

I have no idea who that could be.

if she doesn't allow this to happen, then she will probably remain unrealized potential in a team sport.

I'm not even certain that she likes basketball, or even team sports in general.

I wish she did, because she could have a Chamberlain/Russell type impact on the sport. At the moment she's only physically resembles those two players.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:50 17 Aug 16

Reply #595709

re: Liz and the Opals

The title of this thread is the problem.

It's a TEAM not "Liz and the Opals."

It's not all about her, The way she was crying after the loss last night and being consoled by teammates as if she were effected more than most was embarrassing. Reminded me of a child.

It's not all about you Liz!


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anon
Last year
19:42 17 Aug 16

Reply #595719

re: Liz and the Opals

I think she had a right to be as emotional as she wanted, she near on carried us through that tournament and saved us from a few losses that could have been. Think the entire team are allowed to cry after a disappointing loss that ends their Olympic campaign. Don't think that was their biggest problem.


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Dazz
Last year
19:45 17 Aug 16

Reply #595720

re: Liz and the Opals

The way she was crying after the loss last night and being consoled by teammates as if she were effected more than most was embarrassing.
Yes, so pathetic to see how upset she was, when we all know that she couldn't give a shit about the Opals losing.
And being consoled by teammates, what a joke, we know they all hate her.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:18 17 Aug 16

Reply #595727

re: Liz and the Opals

In my opinion she is a cancer on the team, they will always fail while she is part of it.

It should have been over forever for her when she chose the music festival.


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Latrentis
Last year
20:27 17 Aug 16

Reply #595732

re: Liz and the Opals

Wow Dazz love to see you suit up for Australia one day! So what she cried at the end of the game...Probably tears of joy that she doesn't have to play for that pathetic coach anymore. Very hard to stay motivated when you've got Joyce as your coach and players on the team that shouldn't be there.
Have to agree with anon in that Liz pretty much carried the team during crucial moments throughout the campaign. A real shame for Penny though.
Poor performance by our media slamming a camera and mic into Penny's face post game, she didn't even make it to the change room.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:36 17 Aug 16

Reply #595735

re: Liz and the Opals

Poor form, oh please, its sport at a pro level, stop being so sensitive. The swimmers, track and field athletes all have the same issues. Look Cambage is a definitely a weird unit and I can see why she wouldnt be popular amongst her peers etc, but she is an absolute beast, and at the end of the day unless you can produce more at her position than her, best to feed her the ball down low and move out the way. My biggest concern now is, Dazz has entered the conversation, so this could quickly spiral!


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Anonymous
Last year
20:36 17 Aug 16

Reply #595737

re: Liz and the Opals

Lizzies attitude is terrible.. We all know that..

But, she is a major part of the team. I think in 4 years timeshe will be a much more mature person.

If she has drama surrounding her and her attitude not adjusted, then we don't bring her.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:38 17 Aug 16

Reply #595738

re: Liz and the Opals

On-court chemistry between all the players & Liz looked just fine to me. She's the least of our problems going forward.


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Isaac
Last year
21:05 17 Aug 16

Reply #595744

re: Liz and the Opals

I assumed Dazz was being sarcastic.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:25 17 Aug 16

Reply #595768

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz is by far the best player available to the Opals. LJ and Penny are gone, we aren't what we once were. She should be the focal point of every offensive set from here on out.

I'm wondering now if BA/Opals side will go back to "encouraging" their star players not to play WNBA during tournament years to spend more time together. Liz has already stated she won't be there in international competition years, but I'm under no delusion she will ever step foot in Texas again.

There were some pretty obvious on-court chemistry issues (play related, not personality related) on this Opals team, and I think it's unfair to place that blame on Liz, OP. Penny and Liz never got their games to mesh and Penny ended up playing a game that isn't her natural game. I agree with you there. But Penny was completely MIA from 2014 until the last two Opals camps in May, even when she wasn't committed to another team at the time. Fixing an issue like that only happens when you get a lot of court time together, and Liz was there while Penny wasn't.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:26 18 Aug 16

Reply #595914

re: Liz and the Opals

Haha see I thought Dazz was being genuine. No idea with that one!


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Anonymous
Last year
01:38 18 Aug 16

Reply #595925

re: Liz and the Opals

Any team that puts its entire game plan around only one. Player is doomed..... More so when you have players of Taylor's caliber unable to get her game going because of it.
It's a team sport, you want to be an individual star go try tennis or track and field.

Any coach who has only one plan and that is to give it to just one person all the time should also find another sport , or should certainly not be coaching at Olympic level


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Anonymous
Last year
02:32 18 Aug 16

Reply #595934

re: Liz and the Opals

Maybe a player of Taylor's calibre should have spent more time with the team when she was able in order to fit her game with that of the team.


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Jay
Last year
07:20 18 Aug 16

Reply #595946

re: Liz and the Opals

My only issue with Liz is her childish tantrums she threw when called for fouls. Jumpin up and down stomping her feet and cussing at officials I can't believe they didn't tech her. Ultimately the blame falls on Joyce and his selections. Bench was weak and not enough defensive minded expirienced players. He also was stubborn to a fault about his line ups. Even the USA men have changed things.. For never coaching women at this level I'd say it was obvious it's about him and not about winning. He micro managed them all game every game and they just didn't respond. They had two days off to prepare and it looked like they did nothing. Poor effort by the coaching staff to get the best out of their athletes.


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Anonymous
Last year
07:40 18 Aug 16

Reply #595948

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz reminds you of the man child in high school, who didn't give a crap and smoked behind the sheds. But you used to hope they played every sport for inter school sports because they would physically dominate everyone and could turn it on when they wanted, and your team would downright suck without them.


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_Strungout_
Last year
10:07 18 Aug 16

Reply #595966

re: Liz and the Opals

With this thread I wasn't looking to blame Liz as she is a great player.

I was just trying to highlight that the integration of a player like Liz isn't always easy.

The running her with the second unit suggestion was just something to potentially explore.

She would avoid early fouls and the 2nd unit could also be more geared towards playing zone and keeping her parked under the basket. She could be paired with longer guards.



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_Strungout_
Last year
10:10 18 Aug 16

Reply #595968

re: Liz and the Opals

As good as Liz is she hasn't had a lot of team success.

Bronze in London

WNBL championship in 2011. Although that team did share things around quite well.

Runner up WNBL 2010

Runner up WNBL 2012

Haven't followed the China results.

Injuries.


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Kingpodge
Last year
13:14 18 Aug 16

Reply #596053

re: Liz and the Opals

"as good as Liz is she hasn't had alot of team success"

The key word here is 'team', there are another 8 or 9 people on the fucking team....

You take Liz out of that Opals team and they don't win a game all tournament. Simple as that.

It's also not her fault that the coach decided that the offense would be Liz centric. Or that he didn't pick another big with international experience that could stretch the floor and give the team more options....

And criticising her for crying after the game? Are you for fucking real? That's some of the coldest cold blooded troll shit i've ever read.

She. Was. Crying. Because. She. Was. Invested. In. The. Team. In. The. Game. In. The. Opals.

She was crying because that is what humans do when something bad happens.

Give.
Her.
A.
Fucking.
Break.

I get the feeling some folk are still salty at the fact she had the audacity to call out the blackface incident......


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Luuuc
Last year
13:25 18 Aug 16

Reply #596058

re: Liz and the Opals

Well said, Kingpodge.
I get that people are disappointed with how the Opals went. I am too. I want nothing but success for this great group of women, and they fell short this time.

But that's no reason to completely lose the plot.


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wherearethey
Last year
15:32 18 Aug 16

Reply #596101

re: Liz and the Opals

liz was the Opals best player. Carried the team to wins.

I thought it was great she cried. It showed her commitment to winning and to the team. If you are not disappointed/pissed off etc at losing , then your heart is not in it. I thought her commitment/enthusiasm was great. Players are not robots and need to show some emotion.

Posters have gone from, joyces fault, Burtons fault to Lizs fault.

They LOST due to 26 TURNOVERS that resulted in 24 pts to Serbia!!!!!!!!!! (guards committed the most)


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hoopie
Last year
17:05 18 Aug 16

Reply #596115

re: Liz and the Opals

You can't blame Liz for anything except a bit of immature petulance during the game, and for being human afterwards.

I agree with wherearethey, the loss was largely due to the coach: his initial selections, the way he worked with his assistants and captain, inadequately preparing the team, inadequately motivating the team before and during the game, confusing them by being in their ear the whole game, not having a play up his sleeve in the last seconds when we needed one, and putting certain players in situations where they couldn't perform to their best.

Since I didn't see or hear anything, I can't comment on whether his time-outs and talking to his players were useful or not.


[I can't wait for one of the players to write a book or give their own version of events somehow.]


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Dazz
Last year
19:25 18 Aug 16

Reply #596125

re: Liz and the Opals

oh, I actually included the tag "/sarcasm" but it must have been read as HTML


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Perth fan
Last year
19:33 18 Aug 16

Reply #596127

re: Liz and the Opals

Awesome post King Podge. U nailed it. Liz played her guts out and doesn't deserve the crap coming out of some posters mouths.


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Kingpodge
Last year
19:58 18 Aug 16

Reply #596131

re: Liz and the Opals

haha Dazz i just assume everything you post is sarcastic unless otherwise mentioned


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Caps Fan
Last year
23:34 18 Aug 16

Reply #596159

re: Liz and the Opals

Kingpodge
"You take Liz out of that Opals team and they don't win a game all tournament."

So true, the results from the 2014 WC makes it clear that you just so masturbatinly correct you are right on the moeny as "hammer" would say...

( sorry meant to Type "fucking" to show just how how serious and grown up I am, as well as dark, dangerous and unbound by societies' conventions)


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Anonymous
Last year
09:26 19 Aug 16

Reply #596173

re: Liz and the Opals

I'm not a fan of her either but people criticising her for crying? Wow! I reckon there were fans watching at tv at home that would have been in tears too but a player who tried her guts out isn't allowed to be emotional...


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_Strungout_
Last year
09:39 19 Aug 16

Reply #596177

re: Liz and the Opals

Podge how did you get time to comment on this while competing in the shot put?


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Bear
Last year
09:50 19 Aug 16

Reply #596181

re: Liz and the Opals

You guys are funny and sad at the same time :)

If you watch closely, Liz is not treated evenly or equally by almost all officials when she plays.

She is uniquely big for a female basketballer, at any level, so when she plays she is fouled often but not given the benefit of going to the line anywhere near enough times to make if an equal playing field.

That's just one of her challenges, so everyone in her team has to adjust to this, and of course she is a spirited individual with emotions, so what, I like her when she is intense on court.

Maybe at times she can use social media less, maybe even ignore it at times, but we need to understand young people today are living in a different world and we are all trying to get used to these social media changes, globally.

She is no doubt a key player for the Opals, she will no doubt continue to be, she is the player every team tries to stop and our coaches need to work out better ways to exploit her benefits to the team while we all need to support her, not stand back and abuse her.

'Tall Poppies', remember the syndrome?


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paul
Last year
10:23 19 Aug 16

Reply #596187

re: Liz and the Opals

"You take Liz out of that Opals team and they don't win a game all tournament. Simple as that."

Not liking the bashing of Liz, but this comment isn't correct. Easily the Opals best performance was against France, when Liz only played 15 minutes. Obviously they were outstanding in 2014 without Liz.

That's not a dig at Liz, this was a coaching issue. Joyce wasn't able to balance the highly-successful style of 2014 with the style needed when Cambage is on the court.

This Opals team had the potential to be an awesome two-speed team who could dominate teams with pressure and speed ala 2014 but also excel in slower half-court situations thanks to Liz's inside presence.

Problem was Joyce just created a sorry mix of the two styles that allowed very few of the players to utilise their strengths.

His line-ups were unbalanced, undefined and he spent much of the tournament on the back foot reacting to what was happening instead of setting the agenda with what was a versatile roster.

On top of that, some key players weren't that interested in defence and the players made some of the most basic fundamental errors you'll ever see against Serbia to cost themselves a clear victory and a SF berth.

A sad end to a sad tournament.


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Kingpodge
Last year
10:28 19 Aug 16

Reply #596189

re: Liz and the Opals

Caps Fan -I'm assuming by your comment that you didn't watch the pool games because you were too engrossed in the synchronised swimming - completely understandable. If you had watched those games, with your keen insight into the sport of basketball, you would have noticed that without Liz they would haven't even beaten Japan....
If we were talking about the 2014 WC you would be correct.... but we're not... and you are not correct.... So... yeah....
The only thing "dark, dangerous and unbound by societies' conventions" about me in my browser history......

_Strungout_ - the wifi in Rio is great.




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Kingpodge
Last year
10:34 19 Aug 16

Reply #596190

re: Liz and the Opals

Paul - slightly hyperbolic I grant you, but given she was instrumental in the comebacks against Japan and Belarus, i don't know where those points come from if she wasn't there. 100% agree with the rest, spot on.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:36 19 Aug 16

Reply #596192

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz is a good player so too many of the others, problem is when all the focus is on that ONE player it can be detrimental to a "team" game.

That's exactly what has happened her, penny Taylor is a far better all round p,Ayer than liz ever will be, but because of liz and her gigantic frame it becomes "all about liz"

The team chemistry suffers especially when it's made all about one player who's already all about herself.

She's not a child, she needs to start acting with far more maturity both on and off the court

And yes she as our top,scorer, but that was because the entire offence was structured around giving her the ball, again when that's what the main focus is it limits others contribution.
It also puts a lot of pressure on that one player to do well, and liz does not do pressure well.

All this comes down to poor coaching from Joyce who really was the achillies heel in this program


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Young Gun
Last year
14:01 19 Aug 16

Reply #596234

re: Liz and the Opals

To echo some of the other posters... I think Liz's future Opals success will largely depend on the Head Coach's ability to run an appropriate offence to suit the personnel & to get the best out of each person(ality).


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Anonymous
Last year
01:39 20 Aug 16

Reply #596313

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz is a good player so too many of the others, problem is when all the focus is on that ONE player it can be detrimental to a "team" game.

That's exactly what has happened her, penny Taylor is a far better all round p,Ayer than liz ever will be, but because of liz and her gigantic frame it becomes "all about liz"
--

Penny Taylor didn't help her chances of being incorporated effectively into the offensive sets when she only made it to one or two camps in two years. She only played 6-8 weeks of professional basketball between the end of the 14/15 WNBL season and the beginning of the beginning of the 2016 WNBA season, yet she didn't bother making time for Opals camps. It showed too, she had no idea how to play with that team. It's really not what you expect from the captain.

I get people want to blame Liz for things because they don't like her personality or her social media presence or whatever, but she's just becoming a scapegoat here when there were bigger issues with that side.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:28 24 Aug 16

Reply #597231

re: Liz and the Opals

Liz = Great Player
Liz is not a 1 woman show!
Liz has a disgusting foul mouth and you can hear what she was saying. Yes she got fouled - no it didn't get called. But that doesn't mean she needs to drop F Bombs all over international TV. Embarrassing for Australia and her team mates.
Liz' 4th personal foul - correct call - get over it when you play bad defense.

They could have played better as a whole. They were up by 10 at one stage and blew it.

Maybe a better coach! Ha Ha during a time out one player said "get under the basket" coach has nothing more to say - that says it all! LOL

Liz, yes your a big girl but play strong and stop the whinging we don't want to hear it! It's big girls basketball not u18's. You ALL lost as a team - too many turnovers and silly passes to the opposition. Rack it up to experience and get out there next Olympics.


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