Anonymous
Years ago

State Champs

4 regular games for teams in each pool. Only Semis straight to GF and no playoffs for places for lower 4 teams. Disappointing this is all there is. No exciting prelims and second chances and 4 games for 4 teams is poor... Basketball is about tournaments, who can last the distance and second chances to make finals and make a position for the tournament. Clear the lower teams are not respected. No reserves second teams many of them talented players who miss playinng state champs and a chamce to measure against the div 2 teams. Should be run comparable to Nationals for credibility. To be expected though. Build up all year for 4 games for 1/3 of our elite !!!! Teams

Topic #41255 | Report this topic


Please explain  
Years ago

Still want to know why it was suddenly decided to ban div 3 teams after years and years of them being allowed, thought it was about getting junior basketballers involved ?

Reply #634898 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

St Clair, Eltham, Easter Classic, Nunawading, Millicent, Bearcats Carnival etc... there is no shortage of tournaments for junior basketballers to be involved, all of which will provide adequete challenges for division 3+ teams.

If you're actually wondering why BSA have limited the number of teams (for which I expect there is a reasonable explanation re: court/referee availability and scheduling) and not just keen to have a public whinge over trivial issues, then contact them or ask your club.


Melanie Luksa
Competitions Manager
Phone
(08) 8345 8606
Email
[email protected]

Reply #634901 | Report this post


?  
Years ago

isn't there more courts available now ?

2016 -
Mars - 3
Hillcrest - 2
Starplex - 3 or 4
Port - 3
St Clair - 2
Wayville - 3
Adel Hills - 2
Marion - 2
Morphett Vale - 4
Pasadena - 3
Dome - 3

2017 -
all the above + 2 ARC

Reply #634944 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

what do other states do for their state champs ?

PO for positions ?
Prelims ?

Who can play?
How many teams from clubs per grades and age groups ??

Anyone know ?

Reply #634945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I believe only three other states run 'state champs' and very differently.

Some run POs some don't
None run prelims

Stringent player qualification much tougher than SA
One team per Association no div 2s def no div 3s.


Reply #634953 | Report this post


';'  
Years ago

It was decided and recommended by the JDO's that unless the club already had a 3rd team in Div 2 no extra teams were going to be accepted. It's a waste of everyones time when clubs put in teams just for the "experience" If you cant make the top 4 why should you get an extra game. Nothing has changed and all the lower play off games are a waste of time and energy for everyone.

Reply #634954 | Report this post


Interesting  
Years ago

In other states they have an u12 weekend and then an u14 weekend etc

Reply #634956 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

NSW qualifies the top 4 country associations from Country Premier League and the top 4 metro associations from Metro League. They're seeded into 2 pools, round-robin (3 games) in the pool. Crossovers are 1v2 semi finals then a grand final. I don't believe they play off 5-8. All genders and age groups played on one weekend. They also conduct what amounts to div 2 state champs, though it's held on a different weekend and called 'state cup.' Both events require qualification through the junior leagues; you can't just nominate and show up.

Qld conducts each age group on a different weekend, but the overall structure seems most similar to SA in that there are multiple divisions often of unpredictable sizes and there can be multiple teams from one association in a division.

Vic doesn't conduct state champs.

WA state champs seem to be a second-tier event with WABL reliably featuring better players and teams.

I agree with PlaymakerMo - if what you want is a tournament for your div 3 team, there's no shortage you could take them to. OP I don't know what your definition of 'elite' is but I think it's a lot broader than mine. State Champs shouldn't be run comparable to Nationals for credibility - if you want that standard of competition, qualify/get selected for it.

Reply #634961 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Interested to see how the changes will affect the results, probably not at all.

Reply #634966 | Report this post


chewie  
Years ago

I understand the frustration of Div 3 teams not being given a chance. There a multiple Div 3 teams that would be mid table teams in Div 2, and I feel the players and probably more so the parent's frustration.

It could be argued that Div 2 shouldn't be involved, with the exception that the stronger clubs or the clubs able to focus on development tend to load those teams with first-year players (hence these team sometimes appearing to be weaker than Div 3 sides, particularly in summer season), so it's reasonable for them to be included on this basis.

For my opinion, for what its worth, the issue is with the timing of the championship (not on a long weekend) meaning the schedule is compressed and that some very weak teams qualify, effectively giving some sides a bye in the draw.

Options of moving the championship to a long weekend aren't universally popular for multiple reasons, and lower teams (bottom 2) pre-qualifying against Div 3 teams are equally unpopular.

With the advent of women's AFL and the already significant inroads this is having on the selection pool for youth teams as one example (AFL has final state selections on state champs grand final day!), now more than ever, parents should be prepared to change clubs if there are greater opportunities elsewhere. It staggers me how many parents aren't prepared to attend another club's training to at least have a look and appraise the coach etc.

I'd also second the tournament options. They are numerous, and Nunawading is a good tournament to go to for Div 3 teams due to timing.

Talk with your feet parents. If your child is good enough, they may walk into another teams Div 2 starting lineup and help your child's development in addition to the strength and evenness of the overall competition.

Reply #634979 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The universal answer to every ailment or issue in SA basketball...change clubs

Reply #634980 | Report this post


?  
Years ago

you talk about changing clubs - well it has been a disaster for one at our club and odds on they will be out the sport in 6-12 months. The player hated it - taken away from friends and new club culture and worse of all the new group was very intolerant.

Reply #635014 | Report this post


?  
Years ago

also what about a seeding elimination system ?
i.e. the higher seeds start second / third round etc whilst the lower seeds play each other first and knock each other out.

Reply #635015 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

Okay anons, I'll bite:

Strong division 3 teams SHOULD be playing division 2, and arguably they SHOULD be allowed to participate in State Champs.

Their current club has likely done a good job in developing their players, and clubs with consistently poor division 1/2 teams clearly aren't. Moving to these clubs succeeds in evening out the competition, at the expense of addressing the fundamental issues.

The universal answer should be putting the onus on clubs to continually improve their governance, and results by extension.

The problem with this solution is that the clubs are made up of voluneers, many of whom either act in their own self-interest at the expense of the community or have good intentions but are incapable of making sound operational decisions.

Given that SA has 10 member clubs, the gradual collapse of a few clubs (which is always a real possibility) would be devastating for the basketball community. Therefore BSA has elected to prop up the poorly run clubs by attempting to increase the flow of talent to these clubs.

While I think BSA should be more audacious and make decisions on a case-by-case basis rather than blindly following policy, the sad reality is that BSA has taken a fairly pragmatic approach to the situation.

Moreover, this is the way it is. Complaining accomplishes nothing. Move on.

Reply #635040 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

BSA or Basketball Adelaide? I get confused who is actually running the show.

Reply #635052 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

any team incapable of being awarded Club Points for the Club Trophies should not be allowed to play. Their involvement in a Pool based schedule skews the results for those teams capable of being awarded points. (Especially when the pools are manipulated so multiple teams from one club are not in the same pool, who knows why that is!)

End of story.

(Having multiple teams from one club capable of getting Club points is not a solution either.)

Given its the 35th Championship, BSA allowed double Div 2s only very recently because clubs demanded it. They have now removed them because clubs and some staff demanded it.

Move on.

Reply #635055 | Report this post


Why  
Years ago

West U16 D2 boys are the perfect example of who shouldn't be in D2 and are wasting a spot at state champs. Over the first 5 games they have lost by an average of 67. Last game losing 96-2. Their closest game was a 34 point loss to the second to bottom team.

They would be lucky to be a mid level team in D3. The D3 North team would beat them by about 50.

Why West is allowing these boys to get smashed each week instead of dropping them to D3 where they would be competitive and win a couple I don't know why.

Is there some sort of sanction for not having a team in D2? If there isn't they should be dropped to D3 straight away. All the boys in that team deserve to be in a league they can be competitive in, instead of being humiliated every week.

Reply #635111 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't some D3 teams that would beat some D2 teams. But if you refer to the OP, that person is simultaneously demanding that the professionalism of the tournament be improved while the playing base is widened. That would seem an incongruous idea probably coming from a D3 parent who's very impressed by their own kid and doesn't understand why they don't get Nationals-standard tournaments to compete at.

Reply #635113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who are the favourites to qualify for 14s Nationals do we think? Sturt & Norths in the boys

Reply #635123 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

113 you could not be further from the truth. Not Div 3 wannabe parent and my concerns are for the level of and quality of games across the state for the state and good of the sport. Unlocking potential talent not just for state and beyond is essential for developing the sport and participation rates to lobby for infrastructure as well . Expanding our local talent pool in SA and lifting the overall standard of indiciduals and overall play across many platforma with the right plan can happen. State Champs and how they run are just one step in a thought process that some are thinking may help in building and spreading the talent and creating opportunities. That happens through measuring players, coaches and clubs and the state champs is our only opportunity eah uear to make those measurements. We need all clubs tepreswnted to do that and no ither tournament gives us the big picture like state champs does. Planning.. We can help clubs utilise post tournament planning to look ahead and so can players parents and coaches. You just need to look at it from the perspective of each potential user group individually and then expand that to a whole of competition view. I have sat down and done this and there is a better future out there and for me and others State
Champs Is an important 1st step. Think what you like but I have a positive view and open mindset and many seem to just think we 'complainers' are isolated in our thinking. Maybe it is you that is.

Reply #635156 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry 156 but you're complaining anonymously on an internet forum, so expecting the benefit of the doubt that you're not just a 'complainer' is a bit rich. I think the requests you're making overestimate the resources available, and if you have a plan to solve the problem, that's fantastic. I don't see anything in your post that looks like a solution, though. PlaymakerMo's contribution has been more constructive.

Reply #635159 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

North's under 14's boys are riddled with injuries, so unfortunately they wont do as well as they should.

Norwood 14s boys and Sturt for the final.

Reply #635248 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sturt and who in the girls final?

Reply #635249 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

^Toss up between Southern, Forestville and perhaps Centrals.

Reply #635250 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Forestville v Sturt for 14s girls. Fville have their star back, it was a tight game for the two a few rounds ago.

Sturt will take it out, they are a good unit and just getting better.

Reply #635251 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Top 3 qualify for both? even with injuries North should still be too strong for the rest and finish at worst third

Reply #635254 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

251, Sturt were missing arguably their best player for that game.

At full strength they are clearly the best SA team.

Reply #635276 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Because of acjbc?

Reply #635282 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Well read: I did say they'd win.
Yes, I agree they are the best team. However, Fville has been without their best player too. Shes the best player in under 14s, however- she's not as interested in bball as the Sturt girls. She'll play netball in the future and make a career of it.

Reply #635310 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Following mothers footsteps?

Reply #635314 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

I know you did, I was just providing context to the scoreline of their last encounter: Forestville had their full team whereas Sturt were missing their best player (IMO), so the 2pt margin may be a little flattering.

It's a shame because if Forestville hadn't lost two key players from their U12 div 1 team then it might have been 50-50 contest.

Reply #635325 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Where did these lost players Go?

Reply #635327 | Report this post


!  
Years ago

IMO -

state -

12G - Fville
14G - Sturt
16G - Fville
18G - Fville

reserves -

12G - Fville
14G - North
16G - Sturt
18G - Fville

Reply #635332 | Report this post


!  
Years ago

all will be close -

probably the only certainties would be

Fville 18G state
Fville 12G reserves
Sturt 16G reserves

Reply #635333 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

One moved states, however being a talent at under 12 level doesnt mean much come under 14's.

the 14's girls teams are all pretty even IMO, even the teams losing by 15 each week have kept the top of the table to 2 points until the 4th, lots of first years in the bottom 2-3 teams.

Sturt v Fville in the final, unless an upset occurs by Southern or (possibly) Norwood when they actually run a play.

i think ! is on the money.

it'll be the annual Forestville sweep of the girls in state.

Reply #635337 | Report this post


wnba fan  
Years ago

u14G state pool B - is anyone's guess - what an even pool

Reply #635564 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

The entire under 14 girls comp is fairly even. The bottom teams are still doing ok now Woodville relegated (they were DIV 3 standard at best). Poor old North with their baby guards is left at the bottom, but when we've played them they show promise and have the best centre in 14's IMO, she just isnt fed the ball well yet.

South is hit and miss, but have had some good wins.

Mavs have some great players and strength and Bearcats have improved a lot.

The stand outs will be Forestville and Sturt but i think Southern and Norwood will nip at their heels and Centrals have a few new country recruits i think...

Reply #635610 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who's the best u18 point guard for girls and boys?

Reply #635626 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

You can't name juniors, sorry.

State champs and there are still games with no results against them from last night, geez.

Few thumpings up there, all expected.

A highlight was Forestville state 12 girls demolishing Centrals, played a hard press the entire game much to many supporters horror. It's state champs people, not school ball - get over it.

Rockets boys teams with some 100+ plus thumpings too in 14's and 16's.

As predicted the state 14's girls comp is even, Sturt girls with only a 14 point win over Mavs when people expected a demolishing.

Reply #635678 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

2 key players out injured and a first year that prob should be getting bo court time in a state champs closer game. Still the best talented team maybe not used as well as previous years wrh different coaches who put rhe yards in to develop these girls.. 2 are not originals either

Reply #635685 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

I'm not writing them off, they are a brilliant team, very talented. I am making the point the 14 girls state comp is really even, from the best down to the bottom teams, there isn't huge gaps in skill.

Reply #635709 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How would these u14 teams go against qld qualifiers (Gold Coast, cairns, south West Metro)?

The vic teams that are most likely to qualify for club champs look strong once again.

Reply #635710 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

These 14 girls placed extremely well at Southern Cross Challenge, finished 3rd and 4th.

They took it to the VICS, beating two of the VIC METRO teams and also VIC COUNTRY.

The Sturt outfit will be very competitite vs any team you place in front of them.

The high performance programs, camps and tournaments are doing good things for the 14's now IMO

Reply #635711 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

A number of players were unavailable for Southern Cross too e.g. North's center.

This year's U14G don't have as much depth as last year's, but have considerably better top-end talent.

Reply #635712 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

^^ agreed, North's centre did miss Southern Cross, she is very good, knows her position well for a 12/13 year old.

She will make a big difference to SA team next year.

The top 20 of the 14's girls are very good, some speedy guards and strength in the mids and talls i dont know i agree with the lack of depth, just a different group.

Reply #635722 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The centre is AA?

Reply #635724 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

They have two centres and i am not about to name an 11/12 year old.

Reply #635726 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't need the name. A simple yes.

Reply #635727 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

^That's not who I was referring to at least, but I also won't be naming anyone.

Blowouts across the board so far in U14G - maybe not such an even comp...

Reply #635746 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not even by far, top end closer than you think. Not as much depth as there should be but I believe that is coaching quality issue and the nature of girls not being understood. 14 twos is a worry and with div 3 not eligable anymore the talent can not be seen or measured and that will not help improve overall depth or encourage movement of review if players internally. And why are we still not using electronic scoring that is used for school basketball and social and why are results not posted. Come on SA lets get professional and no more excuses its too hard. There would be people who would volunteer if someone asked if you can't manage to use the laptops to score.

Reply #635748 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Kids are often misunderstood, yep. Huge talent in multiple teams. Potential to shine and will when exposed to NITP program and even playing field away from their clubs.

There's been some blowouts, yes. But there's also been surprising wins and also closer games than expected.

Reply #635764 | Report this post


U  
Years ago

Is that 36-0. Scoreline correct in u16 g state ? What went on there ?

Reply #635768 | Report this post


u  
Years ago

disregard sportingpulse glitch

Reply #635774 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Is it top 3 or 4 that go to 14 Nationals in girls. Think boys is top 4 but girls 3. Anyone know for sure.

Reply #635781 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

5 vic
5 nsw
3 qld
3 sa
3 wa
2 tas
2 nt
1 act

Reply #635786 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Top 3 to Nationals. Top 4 to Classics.

Reply #635787 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

It was top 4 for boys a few years ago because Sturt won it the previous year.

Reply #635788 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

early qualification prediction for girls...

Bulleen, DV, Dandenong, Eltham, Hawthorn
Sydney, Manly, Gosford, Maitland, Newcastle
Gold Coast, Cairns, South West Metro
Sturt, Forestville, Southern
Willeton, Joondalup, Perry Lakes
North West, North
Cyclones, Suns
Canberra


Bulleen to win.
Sturt 2nd
DV 3rd
Forestville 4th

Reply #635789 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

I think Sturt might take it out.

Reply #635791 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Where are all the photographs and reporting of previous years ?
Merchandise not available at all major stadiums as previous years.
No Atmosphere. No Prelims. No playoffs for all teams. No challenge from Div 3 Teams. No interstate coaches. Not all clubs represented in a few Groups. No country teams. Just does not feel like State Champs anymore.

Anyone else ?

Reply #635792 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Interstate Umps that should be. Long day.

Reply #635793 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Agreed. Totally crap. Felt like a couple of regular games close together.

Zero atmosphere.

Reply #635794 | Report this post


happy mothers day  
Years ago

well there would be around 10-12 Div 3 teams disappointed that they were disallowed from entering.
Less people involved - This is what was wanted.

Reply #635796 | Report this post


=  
Years ago

would not make any call on 14 club champs til after classics. Until everyone has seen all the teams play - saying a certain team is going to win is just uninformed. Even after classics teams have 6 months to sharpen their game up. SA teams ok but a long way from "winning it".

Reply #635797 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No way any 14 team will win classics this year. Been watching these girls for years and seeing many too controlled by coaches and their talent not unleashed. More and more basketball is becoming about the coaches and micromanangement. If the players digress they are fearful what that means for their spot. I fear we are losing our next generation of girls who will represent on the national stage. Participation is down and I have seen many players leave for other sports or just quit and a common theme is not knowing how they fit anymore and being able to play to their strengths and not enjoying the game and losing their love of the game. I want to see coaches create a game that fits the players rather than make the players fit their limited and inflexible game plan. It has to be about coaches serving the players for the benefit of this great game and not about the coaches desires for themselves. Another issue is motivating young girls and positive constructive coaching. I want to see some enthusiasm and passion and joy from coaches and a genuine connection with players. I rarely see it. And parents no longer feel they can challenge poor coaching behaviour either. Forget the game being about the refs, it is also to service coaches and players are at the bottom. I know its a negative view but unless you look at issues and be honest then a plan to change culture and improve for the benefit of players then the game and representation on the national stage suffers. I know I am not alone in my thinking. Good luck to all the girls today and please speak up and let the adults know that may be letting you down know how you feel. A player revolution is needed.

Reply #635798 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

I understand what you're saying..^^ we do all our work with our girl away from the club.emotional conditioning, growing the love of the creative game.. all away from the restrictions of the club..

It's about all you can do now to keep the flame lit.

Reply #635800 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

why have div 3-4-5-6 ?

They are not invited to state champs anymore, club cancels trainings because of state champs yet they are banned from playing - so basically sent away. No compensation trainings, club puts their hand out for same fees, club fills their media with div 1/2 team info. Squad head coaches only interested in Div 1 and politics. Draws for div 1 and 2 are articulately done and balanced / located.New players off the street can walk into some clubs div 1-2 teams and be called "elite" yet regular Div 3-4-5-6 players / teams etc get cut out further.

Reply #635809 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

looks like some trophies are going to new clubrooms

Reply #635822 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

First State Champs without Mesecke making the decisions about players for teams, coaches etc Summer Winter leading in to them, so Sturt will find out how much his influence really had on the success of the junior program. Love him or hate him good bad or ugly success was there. Will be interesting for sure. Predict a bigger spread across clubs.

Reply #635823 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

from what i have worked out -

state girls Fville

reserve girls Fville

state boys Centrals

reserve boys North

unsure on overall - ? Fville

Reply #635829 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Posted in BSA web site already. As predicted. Sturt none. Spread of clubs. Somebody will be smirking.

Reply #635843 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

"*Correction Apology - Basketball SA would like to apologise for incorrectly announcing at the presentations that the Sturt Sabres Basketball Club were joint winners of the State Champion Boys and State Champion Club awards. We apologise for the technical error and the disappointment this may have caused."

Reply #635844 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Credit to forestville. 7 of 8 championships. In womens

Reply #635846 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

sturt would be runners up to those 7 of 8 too.

Reply #635860 | Report this post


Well Read  
Years ago

Sturt were runners up in more than I can remember - zero titles across the board though, which is highly unusual.

Reply #635861 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Changing of the guard last year and different approach and many different coaches. Some at all clubs are gifted great teams or players and only coach talent. Thats not as honarable for me. Others can take a good team and make them great or weaker teams and make them stronger. Those coaches I respect. Some only coach good teams that some one else has put all the work in to and tqke the credit given all the resources needed to make it happen. That I find poor form and foes bot help a club when other teams are continually let down and see those resources inadequately spread. The sacrifice is in all the other teams. What is sad is that some good teams are let down by inexperienced coaches who were thought to have talent and they let the team down only to blame the players.. Leading a coaching group and getting it right is not as simple as you would think and winning teams are not always a result of 1 coach, but usually because of others that got the players and teams to that point, then someone else takes the glory.... or not which seems to be the case.

Reply #635865 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Sturt will be just fine, they were everywhere in GF's but some fell short.

Forestville have proven once again their girls program is simply the best in the state.

Watch them play and you will see they have one maybe two really talented players in both the 12's and 14's the rest just play to the system and it is a good one.



Reply #635873 | Report this post


interesting fact  
Years ago

BSA website records go back to 2001.

2017 is the first year Sturt have not won any trophy (reserve or state, overall).

Reply #635907 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Forestville, Sturt, southern. Whoever it is... it's not going to make any difference come nationals.

VICS rule!

Reply #635908 | Report this post


Anon  
Two years ago

stay away from

Reply #673818 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Pallas 35

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Beam Orders - a quick, simple order and payments site for your business.
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Punch - insightful time tracking

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:45 pm, Fri 14 Aug 2020 | Posts: 842,742 | Last 7 days: 726