Luuuc
Two years ago

WNBL Round 4

Early start this week with a Wednesday game, and no Saturday games so the Foxtel one is on Sunday


Wed Oct 25 7:00pm Adelaide Lightning vs UC Capitals

Fri Oct 27 7:00pm Bendigo Spirit vs Adelaide Lightning
Fri Oct 27 7:30pm UC Capitals vs Townsville Fire
Fri Oct 27 7:30pm Sydney Uni Flames vs Melbourne Boomers
Fri Oct 27 6:30pm Perth Lynx vs Dandenong Rangers

Sun Oct 29 3:00pm Townsville Fire vs Melbourne Boomers
Sun Oct 29 5:00pm Dandenong Rangers vs Sydney Uni Flames (Live on Fox)

Topic #42026 | Report this topic


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

I don't think there are any games this round where I could confidently tip a winner. The two most important games for mine are Townsville/Melbourne and Perth/Dandenong. Melbourne need to get that one to keep their season split alive, though I think it will be a tough ask given they're down a few players, coming off an overtime and having to travel to Townsville on the second leg of their double header.

I was very close to tipping Perth over Melbourne last weekend - which would've been embarrassing as no one in the tipping comp tipped them, but at the same time it would've been a massive win for me if they had've been able to hold on. I think Perth should get the job done against Dandenong, I was really impressed by them last weekend but to be honest they really need to get rolling to keep their season alive.

Reply #653026 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Agree with you about all the games that could realistically go either way.

Re. Perth ... I'm pleased that we got so close to Melbourne, but at the same time I recognise that the Boomers weren't at full strength so I'm unsure exactly how much positivity to read into the performance. If the Rangers weren't absolutely on fire last round I'd be more comfortable leaning Perth's way on that game. Will be an interesting matchup of Dandy's good backcourt defence vs the Sami & Court show.


Unrelated, I notice that Sportsbet have finally released their WNBL championship odds:

Melbourne Boomers 3.00
Townsville Fire 3.60
Sydney Uni Flames 5.50
Adelaide Lightning 8.50
Dandenong Rangers 10.00
UC Capitals 13.00
Perth Lynx 15.00
Bendigo Spirit 18.00

Reply #653036 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

According to Boti, Aimee Clydesdale is fit to return to action this round. (Right as Planeta's PR application has been approved - what an amazing coincidence! :O )

Reply #653038 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Oh wow what a crazy happenstance.. *rolls eyes* But great to see that Clydesdale has recovered. Planeta certainly has been quite handy for them, but I'm not really a fan of these dodgy dealings.

Reply #653043 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Sydney or Adelaide probably best odds there. Booked have it about right.

I think the Sydney v Melbourne game is the match of the round. Hope they get the stream sorted for that

Reply #653165 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Re Championship odds: I feel Rangers are going to have a lot to say by season's end.

Reply #653169 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

I'd announce that LiveStats are not working if it was news.

Reply #653172 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Haha, well I can't even get to wnbl.com.au atm

Reply #653173 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Boti was surely trolling with this piece on Clydesdale being ready to debut now that Planetta has secured permanent residency?!?

http://www.botinagy.com/blog/aimie-debuts-and-kids-can-see-it-for-free/

Reply #653185 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Boti was trolling the refs too earlier in the week, and it might have backfired with Bishop fouling out again.

Lightning led all game, coughed up the lead in the final minutes with Bishop gone, and grabbed it back thanks to Seekamp & Novosel. Quite the ending to that one.

Reply #653186 | Report this post


Hoops  
Two years ago

Boomers will win the league unless Cambage gets injured. For me, the Fire aren't the same as they were in previous season.
Sydney missing Leilani big time and they do have WNBA quality but not enough to stop Melbourne.
The other clubs are outsiders and I don't consider them at all in the championship pedigree.

Reply #653187 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Hamblin is wasted on the bench for Adelaide. Should really be on another team that needs a big C. Bad decision to leave Perth.

Reply #653212 | Report this post


anon  
Two years ago

Good old Boti, Adelaide have a 4-0 home record and he's whining that the Adelaide refs are somehow biased against the home side.

But none of the WNBL teams can blame the Lightning for the League's 'rule' that you can temporarily exceed the 2 import cap with an import replacement for one of your Australian players injured on international duty. After all, it was just pure luck that Clydesdale's recovery coincided with receipt of Planeta's residency approval.

Reply #653222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Do you seriously think a player like Clydesdale would voluntarily sit out just so Adelaide could get another import.... obviously Planeta was waiting on the final paper work to come through to give her Aus status , that would be why the league have allowed it, she would already have been given notification it had been granted, so I'd say yes it was a coincidence..... Clydesdale has been injured

Reply #653224 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

I think Hamblin may have been on limited mins (hence coming off the bench) due to injuring her back last weekend against Bendigo. I'm fairly certain she had started every other game this season, though in saying that she probably would've been better off staying in Perth where they don't really have an abundance of bigs like Adelaide does.

Another game another live stats fail.. not even surprised.

Reply #653226 | Report this post


NBL Lover  
Two years ago

Perth will win easily now they know how to win, and win well.

$15 for the Championship is way over, I am on that in a big way, because after this weekend Lynx will be chopped to $8

Reply #653231 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I think Hamblin's minutes were declining even before the injury, but I disagree that moving from Perth was a bad move. (Pretty sure that was a mutual separation, btw).
Perth doubled down on the small ball plan after struggling with the front court matchups in the semis vs Dandenong last season.

I think Ruth can be an effective player for the Lightning though, once they work out the right spacing & sets for her. Just her presence alone must make life easier for Bishop. She has a positive +/- in every game so that's a good sign.

Reply #653247 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Following up on the Boti whinge, I just had a look at Adelaide's foul numbers

Home games:
ADL 22 SYD 20
ADL 11 PER 17
ADL 21 BEN 28
ADL 14 CAN 21
-------------
ADL 68 OPP 86


Away games:
CAN 17 ADL 18


So Boti's favouritism claim seems pretty baseless

Reply #653248 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

I suspect the main issue is that they never commit a foul, so all those numbers against Adelaide should be duck eggs.

Reply #653249 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Luuuc that's a very basic and flawed way of looking at things. A physical team who fouls more should have a higher foul count. A team that plays aggressive defense, a lot of man-to-man, full court etc will have a higher foul count than a team that plays a lot of containment defense of zone.

There is no logic to the commonly sprouted belief that an uneven foul count means the referees were biased, or that an even foul count means the referees were not.

Reply #653251 | Report this post


anonymous  
Two years ago

Keep on wriggling.

Reply #653253 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I agree that a well-reffed game does not require the foul count to be even, just like a well-reffed season probably does not result in Liz Cambage's fouls against to equal her fouls on.

But Boti claiming that Adelaide refs intentionally favour the opposition, and using one (allegedly) incorrect decision as evidence of that, just reeks of the cray cray. His adoration for Bishop & Batkovic is lovely and all, but he's actually throwing her under the bus writing crap like that and then mixing her name & quotes up in it.
We all want fair games, but I don't think that attacking the integrity of particular refs is a constructive way forward.

Reply #653254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Luuuc, Boti's attacks on 2 referees were unfair but your attack on Boti trying to use stats which you know don't actually explain the point you're trying to make isn't fair either.

Reply #653256 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

As I just tweeted to him, I'm not the one claiming the SA refs are cheating the Lightning.

Here's what he wrote:

SA refs, in their attempt to show no home bias, instead go the other way and disadvantage Lightning.
That's hard to dispute too, considering local ref Nathan Wieland in the WNBL’s season-opening match between Adelaide and Sydney at Titanium Security Arena on the first call of the night - of the season! - was wrong.
A pass intended for Bishop was deflected out of court by Sydney import Asia Taylor, but Wieland confidently called "Sydney ball."
He rightly was over-ruled, which strongly suggests he was either completely wrong or did not know. If it was the latter, then clearly his automatic decision was to favour the visitors. If it was the former, well ...

Does that - an overruled call - sound like a solid foundation for a conspiracy theory?


How about this beauty:

Her fifth foul was another Grigoul special, as the captain was trying to avoid any contact but was called for some anyway. It's known as over-zealous officiating.

I've seen plenty of times in games where contact has occurred despite a player trying to avoid it. Doesn't mean it isn't still a foul!

Reply #653258 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Again not defending Boti. Just pointing out if you're going to attack someone you should use facts which back up your claim. And by your own admission, you did not.

Reply #653263 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

did nobody teach those complaining that you cant change the calls of the refs, adjust , suck it up and move on....some refs suck big time, some just make a mistake , others see it differently to you, no amount of whining is going to get them to change the call.
And yes frequently home games dont advantage the home team IF they loose lol

Reply #653264 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

It could be argued that Bishop fouling out the last 2 games is because she is a bad defender playing major minutes.

As a general rule bad defender + fatigue = fouls

Reply #653265 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Boti loses all objectivity when it comes to Bishop & Batkovic. He has never hidden who his favourites are.
Those 2 also happen to be 2 of the sookiest players in the league.

I've said it before here ... probably in NBL threads rather than WNBL, but the point is exactly the same. Refs' jobs would be easier if they were actually treated with some level of respect on the court as opposed to the mocking, sarcasm, etc that they are expected to put up with.

Boti even said it himself:
"Officials are always quick to deny and dispute taking a mindset against a player, as if human nature doesn't apply to them. But you see it occur regularly."

So what is the solution for that? Robot refs?
No - not really practical?
Well then how about certain players stop giving refs reasons to put them in their 'bad books'

Reply #653267 | Report this post


Pop  
Two years ago

Boti might or might not be arguing about 'home cooking' or lack of it, though failure to pay three blatant grabs by the visitors as 'unsportsmanlike' in the closing 90 seconds last night [how I wish we still had the 'intentional' terminology] would suggest he could have a point.

My reading of his material on the officiating is that his basic point - and concern for the game - is the standard of officiating, which in Adelaide WNBL games at least is consistently poor and often appalling, with the situation not helped by apparently little or no effort being made to improve the situation through education or discipline of officials, education and fostering of future top-level officials, or change in procedures [like interstate exchange of officials as suggested by Bishop] to even marginally help address that by widening perspectives.

Debate here about 'home team bias' is definitely missing the point.

Can I suggest you take a step back and notice the forest [refereeing standards and the good of the game] and not just the tree of fouls for and against?

Reply #653268 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I am far from hung up on the tree of fouls for & against, just in case you are hung up on just one of my posts in this thread.

"Boti might or might not be arguing about 'home cooking' or lack of it"

There is no "might or might not" about it. It's there in black and white.

SA refs, in their attempt to show no home bias, instead go the other way and disadvantage Lightning.


How about this gem

He rightly was over-ruled, which strongly suggests he was either completely wrong or did not know. If it was the latter, then clearly his automatic decision was to favour the visitors. If it was the former, well ....


Because of course, the only reason one ref with one view on a court can get one call wrong is utter incompetence, right? And the only reason they can make a judgement call one way over the other is a need to favour the visitors, right?

I'm fine with people calling me out on whatever leaps of logic I make, but crap like that is allowed through to the keeper unchallenged? LOL



I am concerned about the standard of officiating too. To me there is a noticeable gap between NBL and WNBL, and it's not like NBL refs are flawless themselves.
There's also a gap in resources between the 2 leagues, so it makes the reffing gap harder to close.
So what's the solution?

Reply #653272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Going back to Pop's comments there are 2 issues with education and discipline.

Education. You need to look at who is educating them first and foremost. The direction provided to the group as been nothing short of calamitous for years. BA have not developed one referee in the last ten years and that sits squarely at the hands of the BA referee manager.

Discipline. How would you like this to occur in the real world? Because at the moment 80% of referees are being graded below standard. Are you going to not appoint 80% of the officials? No your not. The next point is the establishment sacked all their senior referees and removed anyone who was in the NBL last season from the WNBL panel. You have approximately 16 first year referees across the country.

Now take Adelaide. You have four WNBL referees and two draft panel referees (neither of whom were on the SEABL panel last season). So lets say you want to discipline or drop one if not two referees. You are leaving yourself open to rostering a debutant (zero experience at the elite level) or travel someone in. (The league has no money so good luck with that exercise). When you have no cattle to choose from when your cupboard is bare your hands are tied.

The reality is the BA system is broken and governed by favouritism, bullying and incompetence.

Reply #653273 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

hey look at that. someone starting off with some truths instead of just baseless claims about refs personal agendas. bravo.

Reply #653274 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

LOL, Boti just blocked me on twitter.
And here I thought it was a fairly civilised exchange.

Reply #653278 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Boti isn't interested in your objectivity. How dare you suggest any of his Adelaide darlings are anything but ultimate defenders.

Reply #653391 | Report this post


James Harvey fan  
Two years ago

Boti certainly likes a crusade doesn't he

Reply #653401 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

No Courtney Williams for the Lynx against Rangers. That'll swing the match in favour to the Victorians, though it may give Sami license to do her thing.

Reply #653405 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Thanks Waves2Lynx, I had been looking out for it because she didn't move from her chair after the Boomers game with a shoulder injury (I'm guessing that's the reason?).

Reply #653406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Players are dropping like flies

Reply #653431 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Yeah, AshT, article on their website said it was sustained in that match.

Reply #653442 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Such a shame about Williams, I was looking forward to seeing (via live stats - if it works haha) her go up against Palau and Steph Blicavs. iirc she landed fairly heavily on her side in the Melbourne game, I'd assume that's when the injury occurred. Hopefully she won't miss too much game time, they can't really afford to lose her for much longer.

Geez though the Lynx won't have any guards coming off the bench will they, it doesn't really seem like the appropriate game or time in their season to be giving significant minutes to their DP guards like Fejo. In saying that though Ciabattoni has been in really good form as of late, so I'm looking forward to seeing what she can do with those additional minutes. Surely there won't be very much bench time on the cards for Whitcomb, Kunek or Ciabattoni.

Jarry is also in doubt for Canberra after being concussed at training during the week - she missed their first game of the weekend as well. I'm fairly certain she had a few concussions when at the Boomers so I wouldn't be surprised if she did miss just for precautionary reasons.

Reply #653516 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Perth trying to rush paperwork for Alison Schwagmeyer to play tonight as IR for Williams. SBL MVP who's in the process of trying to be naturalised (the long way it seems, not the Lightning way).

Reply #653546 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

why do they need a replacement why not give one of their DPs a go isnt that what they are there for, unless its going to be a long time out for Williams then getting a replacements seems stupid.

Reply #653552 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

no wonder these younger players dont hang around, what is the point in a bench if you dont use it when you have injuries

Reply #653554 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

No. You don't replace Courtney Williams with extra DP minutes at this point of the season if you can avoid it.
Last week during extended garbage time vs Bendigo, with zero heat left in the game, we still struggled to even get the ball past half court at times. They're not ready for prime time.

Reply #653558 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

whitcomb can play the extra time, with DPs and bench covering the addition required, so they sign this american whos trying to get her Aussie citizenship, then what, she has to sit back down again once Williams is right, seriously shes 27 do you think she will be impressed with that, or do they then cut one of their bench. Time coaches started looking after some of their development and bench players a bit more, these older players cant last forever

Reply #653565 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this American who plays in the local league and who has been with the Lynx anyway this season (and is on the team poster) will probably not be all that pissed off with getting some WNBL action while Williams is hurt, no. The concept of an injury replacement player is pretty standard I would have thought.

Reply #653571 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Lynx just confirmed that Schwagmeyer is playing tonight

Reply #653606 | Report this post


Mort  
Two years ago

Theyre wont be much cohesiveness within that Lynx team

Reply #653613 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Wow, how brittle are these WNBL players?

Reply #653620 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Whitcomb can't just take on the 35 minutes (on top of her own 35 mins) which Williams would've played. When they only had one senior guard in Ciabattoni on the bench before Williams injury, it's a pretty big ask to get those inexperienced and younger DPs on when they're clearly not ready to be playing.

Really hope Williams' injury isn't serious, she was incredible to watch last weekend.

Reply #653625 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Good news - Sydney Uni Flames vs Melbourne Boomers is going to be live streamed on Fox Sports.
Tip-off in ~ 2 hours

LINK

Reply #653677 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Excellent news! Hopefully it will be a great contest

Reply #653683 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Stoked to watch Sydney-Melbourne, should be a good match.

Adelaide looking very dominant against the Spirit so far, as expected.

Reply #653713 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

11-3 Sydney and Cambage is off the court for some reason. Got blocked before she was pulled.

Lightning choked since I said they were doing it easy but settled before HT and have an 8 point lead.

Canberra/Townsville still close early.

Reply #653719 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Who's the female commentator, Rachel somebody

Reply #653722 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Poor awareness then by the Boomers on the Hamson free throw, I assume Garrick was meant to be down there to box out but was already half way up the court so Hamson rebounded her miss and made the uncontested basket. Was very impressed with Conti's first few plays though, they were quite exciting to watch

Reply #653724 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Something like Jarrie / Jarree

Reply #653725 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Taipans-Sixers is on.

Reply #653726 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Ta, I was trying to think of retired players.

Reply #653727 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Oh, but she'd be watching the Caps game?

Reply #653731 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Yeah I would have thought so too. Surprising.

Flames doing a great job of frustrating Liz so far.

Reply #653734 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Herrick! That makes more sense

Reply #653735 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Ruth finishes with 15 points, 17 boards & 3 blocks
Seems like that back isn't feeling too bad

Reply #653740 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Batkovic has completely turned the game around for Townsville.

Reply #653741 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Holy website errors batman.

Me, 1/2hr ago:

It's definitely looking like a Townsville vs Sydney Grand Final at this stage. I can't see Melbourne getting their unless O'Hea is fit and Cambage can fit around her teammates.

Batkovic 27/11/5. What a night out. Capitals got closer than score suggests but just outclassed in the end.

Reply #653745 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Hoops goes down, then breaks livestats. Sigh

Reply #653748 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Yeah I agree, tonight the Boomers looked quite messy - I thought after Ebzery went down the Boomers guards would take over the game but really they did nothing much offensively. Hopefully Ebzery won't be out for too long, I don't think Sydney would cope well in her absence.

Just when we thought the live stats would work.... we were wrong.

Reply #653750 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Perth up by 9.

Whitcomb 17p/10r/7a
v
Cummings 24p/3r/4a

Reply #653761 | Report this post


Waves2Lynx  
Two years ago

Nice win Perth. Wasn't expecting them to do it without Williams but Whitcomb looks back on form and Kunek was shooting hot from 3. Almost a triple double from Sami but yikes, 7 turnovers.

Reply #653764 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Ciabatoni made a good move from Adelaide but what's the deal with Thompson? Is she injured, so few playing minutes.

Reply #653765 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Steph was great. Sami even greater.

I know the Rangers can be flaky at times, but even with that in mind I had no hesitation in changing my tip to them once I heard the Courtney news (she sounded confident of being back pretty quickly btw). Very happy to be wrong. Was a good contest from start to finish.

Thompson is just struggling - at both ends. No injury that I'm aware of. And Standish & Kunek are both playing pretty well.

Reply #653772 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

The WNBL needs to euthanise their website & live stats program. Every week it is the same excuses.

Reply #653795 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Yeah same old story every game, the site crashes as does livestats. Surely it's not hard in this day and age to upgrade the servers or whatever these IT geeks do to allow more traffic on the website. Nor would it be that difficult to ensure live stats works - they can even get the live stats to work reliably for junior domestic leagues, so why not a national league?

On Thompson I feel her athletic traits compliment the style the Lynx are going for, but the way she plays doesn't as much. They seem to like quick bursts in rotations while from what I saw of her in Melbourne, she needs time to get into a shooting rhythm, otherwise those shots really aren't going to drop for her often. She also doesn't really strike me as a player who loves drawing contact/physicality, which IMO is something their team needs in all their bigs as they're so undersized. But as Luuuc said, it doesn't help that she's stuck behind Standish and Kunek with the Lynx seeming to prefer a Dowe/Burton combo at the 4/5 and Ciabattoni filling in at 3 coming off the bench rather than putting Thompson in. In saying that though I do think she needed to leave Melbourne, the way they recruited she probably wouldn't have received many if any minutes had she stayed.

Reply #653798 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Also on that game I'm a bit perplexed at the Rangers' final minute... I get trying to force the Lynx to the line, but not when Steph Blicavs gets fouled out with 45 seconds to go in doing that. It just seemed a bit counter productive to me, your leading scorer and one of realistically two players who could get them over the line being the one to give away the deliberate foul (and to foul out in doing so) was just plain dumb. Considering that was coming straight out of the timeout I was really shocked. Also 14 seconds to go and down by 8 it seems a bit drastic to keep those deliberate fouls coming. It could end up detrimental to their season split come the pointy end of the season.

Reply #653800 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

LiveStats rarely had an issue before they changed it from last season. Plus, as I encouraged them to do, rather than trying to make it look funky, there was 10+ lines of Play by Play on my screen rather than just the half dozen now.

I remember Thompson along with Blicavs were scoring machines for team AIS, so it's a shame she hasn't kicked on.

Reply #653805 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

It is a shame after 9 seasons in the WNBL for Thompson

Reply #653806 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I still have faith that Andy will find a role for her though. We're not a deep team so he pretty much needs to. But I don't expect her to be a big scorer with this team. If you're not hitting outside shots or a good slasher (or a Courtney Williams who can pretty much get a shot up at will) then you've not going to score much in our offence. It's going to be very rare that one of our front court players has a size advantage on anyone this season.

Reply #653807 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

After last night is it time to ask if the Whitcomb/Williams mix is right?

There are both similar heavy usage % players.

The other question is if Williams while she generates good box score counting numbers and flashy, entertaining plays each game - if she actually has a positive effect of wins/losses?

Reply #653831 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Schwagmeyer pretty much played Williams's role - did some ball handling, tried to get into seams and create, put up plenty of shots (just 1 less than Sami), put a lot of effort into her defence, etc. So I don't think anything about last night's game backs the theory.

You can still put forward the theory of course. I disagree with it though. They're both high usage, yes. They're also both unselfish, more than hold their own as defenders despite their size, and they've never given me the feeling of "there aren't enough basketballs to go around". Whitcomb is noticeably more selective with shooting so far this season.
So I still think the front court is where Perth wins or loses games. Dandenong tried to exploit their size advantage, and did ok, but just ok. Meanwhile we had Kunek & Standish hitting long jumpers, and even created 11 points for Burton.
Rangers pretty much broke even with us in the front court last night IMO, and that's not usually going to cut it.

Sydney clinically picked us apart inside, and when Bendigo smashed us most of those good outside looks started with Griffin & Laney.

What aspect of Williams' game do you see as a negative?

Reply #653834 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

Without a lot of vision its hard for me to make a call. Was just putting the question out there at this stage.

My concerns would be lack of free throw attempts and too much shooting in the dead zone (mid range) although those shots are going in at a good percentage so far.

I hope she does do things on the court that lead to wins as its great to have such an exciting player in the league.

The other side of that is Whitcomb not looking like herself in a lot of games this season. I wasn't sure if that was due to Williams looking for her own stuff too often or Whitcomb being worn down from the back to back seasons.

Reply #653876 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Fair enough if you're just basing it on the stats.
Sami has acknowledged her slowish start to the season, but looked very much like her usual self last night.

Regarding Courtney's offensive game, yes, it is extremely mid-range-based. Her 3 is not reliable, and being tiny means she doesn't get to the basket much, but she has one of the sweetest mid range jumpers in womens basketball. She can pull up & elevate in an instant, and shoot accurately, so "dead zone" does not apply to her.

Reply #653926 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Whitcomb blaming her play on riding the bench in Seattle is the most ludacris thing I've heard lately.

Reply #654001 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Wait what? She's blaming a rapper?

Reply #654004 | Report this post


Mort  
Two years ago

Hate to say it but women's sport has leaps and bounds to improve and social issues like pay won’t imprive until teams can produce better than 27 and 24 points in a half

Reply #654057 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Guy behind the camera for Sydney vs Dandenong game...

My goodness, must be his/her first time.

Reply #654059 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Boomers lose. Molloy our coached.

Reply #654061 | Report this post


Double dribble  
Two years ago

I think that should have said "out coached". Who said Guy Molley was a good coach?
He can lose a game for a team, not win one. Fancy extending a coach contract with a
losing record. Melbourne has got the coach they wanted.
Until they sack him they will never win the flag!!!!!!!!!!

Reply #654067 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

There's no shame in losing in Townsville. Happens to everyone. O'Hea is a massive loss for Melbourne.

"Hate to say it but women's sport has leaps and bounds to improve and social issues like pay won't imprive until teams can produce better than 27 and 24 points in a half"

Boomers struggling now so it's a bit unfair to paint the league with their brush. Totals of 56 & 57 this round obviously aren't pretty though, can't argue with that. Blessed that my team had 66 at half time a week ago, and play a very watchable style.


I probably should have changed my tip to the Rangers when Ebzery went down. Anyone's depth would be tested by losing Tupaea and then Ebzery. Sydney doing pretty well under the circumstances but it feels to me like they're about to get overrun.

Reply #654070 | Report this post


Interested Spectator  
Two years ago

"Perth trying to rush paperwork for Alison Schwagmeyer to play tonight as IR for Williams. SBL MVP who's in the process of trying to be naturalised (the long way it seems, not the Lightning way)."

zConsidering Planeta played Big V in 2014 (and 2015)- one year after Whitcomb and got her PR last year, I don't see your point about your last comment.

Reply #654072 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

For 3 quarters I was marvelling at how well drilled the Flames are. It's pretty much what kept them in that game, with Asia's heroics then pushing them to the lead.
Which they then choked away quite uncharacteristically in the 4th.
Rangers can count themselves lucky to escape with that win I reckon.

Reply #654074 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

The Boomers definitely aren't having a good go at it at the moment, their shooting was something that really surprised me with Garrick 3/13 & 3/12 over the weekend and Cole going 0/8 against Sydney.

Tough to pick a POTW this week with Taylor, Batkovic and Whitcomb putting in some really great performances stats wise. I was really impressed with Taylor's games over the weekend, she's definitely exciting to watch so hopefully the Flames get to stream the rest of their home games this season and we get to keep watching her.

I agree the Rangers were lucky to come away with that one - I was really impressed by Sydney, but without Ebzery it was always going to be a very tough ask to get that win.

Reply #654076 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Wilson doesn't look far off a Snr opals spot.

The other opals sgs are not looking too good atm.

Reply #654078 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Planetta didn't get her P.R last year, she got it last week. The Adelaide way.

Reply #654079 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I reckon her team going 2-0 gives Batkovic the tie-breaker over Taylor for POTW.
Whitcomb an easy inclusion in the TOTW, with Bishop, Novosel & Steph Blicavs fighting over the other 2 spots.

Reply #654081 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

I agree, I think Whitcomb's 8 turnovers knock her out of POTW - had she had a few less I'd have her near triple double as my POTW. I wouldn't be surprised if Kunek was also up there for TOTW with 21pts/4reb/3ast/4stl plus of course the win to the Lynx.

It was a pretty scrappy weekend judging by the final scores of the games - I wonder whether this is the fatigue starting to set in on the players, most of whom aren't used to such a packed season.

Reply #654088 | Report this post


anonymous  
Two years ago

Well done Rangers it's been a long time since they've had a chance to beat the Flames. Flames fans would be justified in asking what it is that Boag and Moffatt contribute to the Flames. Whatever it is, it's probably tome for them to actually demonstrate it.

Reply #654120 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Rangers were indeed lucky to get that win, the refs did everything in their power to get them to loose, absolutely shocking calls ( or lack of) by the female ref today, so many travels by Taylor not called, over the back by Harmon totally ignored, flops by Taylor ignored, so yes they were lucky to get the win .

Reply #654132 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Has our Snr Opals coach been in country to see any of the comp yet?

Reply #654136 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

^haha you jest surely......

Reply #654172 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

She was going to watch all the games via stream. Oops.

Reply #654176 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

is Batkovic going to play worlds next year?

Reply #654178 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Every single game is taped by each club and shared. Of course she could watch each and every game if she wanted to.

Reply #654188 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

ÍF she wanted too'is the point

Reply #654213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Someone tried to have a dig at her for not being in the country while some other muppet suggested that the lack of a league wide streaming service would prevent her from being able to watch.

No one made the point until you came along that she wouldn't have the motivation to watch the games. Thats a different stupid point.

Reply #654218 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

You're the muppet. She has basically no access to the league. Fans in Australia can't even watch the games. Muppet.

Reply #654224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

I guarantee you she has 100% access to every game. Every game is recorded by each home team and uploaded to a shared database, at the end of every round. Put the keyboard down, you clearly have zero understanding how any of this works.

"Butt the fanz haz no axes!"

Reply #654236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Ok but maybe she's not motivated to watch the games.

Reply #654237 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Definitely agree - how else would teams be able to do their scout / get video footage feedback from their away games. Players/their agents would also use that footage to float around to prospective clubs to sign for in the future.

We as fans obviously don't have access to any of it due to Fox Sports holding the rights & their strict requirements on the filming/commentary etc, but it definitely would be available to those who need it.

Reply #654239 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Lmao at the people who think watching tape from Russia is on par with being in Australia to see things out in person.

Of course being around for a few months long season is way too much to demand for a national team coach.

F'ing muppet indeed. Lmao

Reply #654272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Yep, I love how the muppets defending her call us the muppets. No self awareness at all!

Reply #654275 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Two years ago

...seems crows captain , erin phillips wants to play commonwealth games , last nite on ninenews...

Reply #654277 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Reply #654280 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

Erin should look to play some basketball before then.

Reply #654284 | Report this post


Melb Fan  
Two years ago

Not a fan if she makes the CG team, in all honesty.. She's had an incredible career in basketball, but IMO it's a bit rich to waltz in after having only played a handful of WNBA games since Rio and forgoing the WNBL to play AFLW. Would much rather the spot goes to someone younger who has committed to the WNBL and would be a chance for the worlds campaign.

I'm hoping they go with a similar team to the one at the Asia Cup, obviously omitting the Euro based players and replacing the likes of Hodges/Snell with some younger players.

Reply #654286 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I agree in general with the philosophy of looking to the future now, but I'd happily make an exception for Snelly after the way she was tossed aside by Joyce on the eve of Rio. I think she deserves a proper farewell in the green & gold.

Reply #654287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

agree totally Melb fan, its time these older ones moved over and let the others have a go, but frankly with an absentee coach whos not even going to be present for selection unless its in the USA again and has already said Commonwealth Games are a no go for her,I can see the team being filled with geriatrics of the game as she does not know any of the younger ones, and she wont know them sitting in the USA .

Reply #654293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Personally I'd cut anyone over 30y.o
No more Mitchell, ohea, Snell, Batkovic etc etc.

No more chances for Lavey, Burton etc.

We need to start a fresh.

Reply #654296 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

I'd like to see a starting 5 of...

Wallace
Wilson
Blicavs
Griffin
Cambage

Reply #654297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

is that alex wilson? at 2 guard? that would be the slowest team ever assembled

Reply #654298 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Any Opals team that has Alex Wilson as a starting shooting guard is not getting through qualifiers!

Reply #654371 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

We've already qualified for next years worlds...

no one at sg is up to scratch.
Cumming and ebzery are the other 2 that would be in the team but both are also slow.

Garrick, Cole etc aren't showing much.
Seekamp another slow guard.
Wehrung/Tupaea still pretty young, maybe a while before we see them.

you could take Whitcomb, but then you lose Griffin.


Not much to choose from in the guard positions.

Reply #654373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

If Cumming & Ebzery are slow then Wilson is glacial. I'd expect Bec Allen to be ahead of all of them with Mitchell starting at the point.

Reply #654376 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Erin needs to actually play some basketball then. *insert eyeroll*

The Opals need a complete culture change. It's gotten too much with people skipping camps without basketball commitments and making the roster (or even being named captain), picking and choosing under which circumstances they want to be an Opal, and now players publicly wanting on a side when they don't even play professional basketball anymore. This won't happen under Brondello but I hope it doesn't get worse.

Reply #654383 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Allen is not a sg.

A slow lanky sf who is a good 3 pt shooter but is incredible slow, slower than all of those previously mentioned.

Cannot handle the ball, can't penetrate...

Same goes for Talbot, a sf who is primarily a specialist defender.

Reply #654384 | Report this post


lotum  
Two years ago

Wilson's shooting percentage is not that great, good at rebounds, poor at defence too 1 demensional

Reply #654392 | Report this post


lotum  
Two years ago

Wilson's shooting percentage is not that great, good at rebounds, poor at defence too 1 demensional

Reply #654393 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

Slow players so far;

Cumming
Ebzery
Bec Allen
Tablot

Allen and Talbot are athletic enough to guard multiple positions in the wnba which is a decent indication that they aren't slow.

Other players that would be considered 'slow' by your metrics
Lindsay Whalen
Seimone Augustus
Sue Bird
Maya Moore
Diana Taurasi

Perhaps the Opals should add Sally Pearson, Michelle Jenneke and Morgan Mitchell to the camp roster to ensure your speed requirements are met.

Reply #654398 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Steph Blicavs' reputation as an elite defender is due to her ability to guard 1 through 3, in part because she has the speed to stay with PGs.

I dont think I've ever heard of anyone refer to her as being slow.

Reply #654401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

She's slow...

Like ingles is slow... but he's a great defender. Iq helps a lot.

Reply #654402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Blicavs slow...on what planet lol, shes one of the fastest mobile 3/4 Australia has right now, shes a bit out of control at times but shes certainly never slow.
Same as her new sister in-law Steph Blicavs nee Cummings, who on earth would say shes slow, she may not be lightening quick, but slow is not a word to use to describe her. Ebzery runs hot and cold to often, think Garrick and Cummings would be the better choices at the two
Forget Tupaea if your looking for speed, shes always been too slow and will only get slower the older and bigger she gets. Wherung can be very injury prone and needs way more work on her ball handling, but one for the future.

Mitchel would still be the main pick for PG, and Id take Griffin over Whitcomb anyday.

George should not be over looked, but Snell is done, so too Batkovic if they are being honest, have'nt seen Allen play for a while, and O'Hea whilst shes doing OK at boomers when Liz is off the crt, looks like shes run her race for national selection. Time for a literal changing of the guards . Lavey and Burton were out of their league last time and still show little promise now, it was Joyce who pushed them into those positions,and who on earth suggested Alex Wilson!?
But if Brondello doesnt actually start to take this serious, then goodness only knows what the next OPALS team will look like.

Reply #654408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Steph Blicavs... not Sara.

Reply #654411 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I wouldn't say Steph is quick, but she's strong, has good defensive instincts, and puts real effort into her D. As a result I'd say she's probably our best backcourt defender. Speed isn't everything.

There's someone here who for years has been naming small forwards as their Opals 2-guards. I don't get why they always want someone who can't reliably handle the ball and/or can't keep up with opposing guards at that position. It's a fun Opals thread tradition though.

Reply #654413 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

"Allen and Talbot are athletic enough to guard multiple positions in the wnba which is a decent indication that they aren't slow."

Allen and Talbot both got benched in the WNBA this summer.

To suggest Talbot was a good defender in the WNBA is laughable. She was consistently targeted. She was a better defender than Taurasi on the perimeter, but that's one of the lowest standards in the women's game.

Reply #654417 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

Allen struggles to guard even one position in the WNBA unfortunately. I thought Talbot did a passable job, with her hustle factor partly compensating for her lack of quickness, but yes she ultimately found her minutes declining too.

Really though, we're talking about Opals basketball here, and comparing players with WNBA starters is a bit pointless because if that's the standard then our team will have a point guard, a centre, and no other players. Just maintaining a place on a WNBA roster is something to be applauded, and being constantly measured against the best is a great way of facilitating improvement, so well done to both of them.

Reply #654419 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Talbot's WNBA minutes only subsided come playoff time, obviously because the plan of attack was to go with experience but Brondello said herself they were still keen to use her - 14:47 in final playoff 2pt loss to LA. She actually had an impressive rookie year. Commentators often applauded her for the way she defended some excellent players plus other aspects of her game showed she belonged out there.

Reply #654425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Wallace looked good today apart from a couple of turnovers.

Terrible opposition though.

Reply #654454 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Sorry but college games are no measure for how a player would handle a senior game, Wallace is way off being ready

Reply #654476 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

"Talbot's WNBA minutes only subsided come playoff time, obviously because the plan of attack was to go with experience"

No. They fell as soon as Currie was comfortable in the system, and then Turner (another rookie) took all her minutes (as she should have).

Reply #654504 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Currie and Turner (the highly credentialled 29yo) took over her starting spot but they were quite happy trusting Talbot with good minutes to the end of the regular season.

Reply #654525 | Report this post


Hespect  
Two years ago

I've always enjoyed people on this forum criticising wnba performances as a negative for Opals selection and then pushing for players that won't ever be good enough to play in the wnba instead.

Reply #654528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Just because you play in the best league (WNBA) doesn't make you a better player than those who play somewhere else.

A few players better than Talbot and Allen in the wnbl currently.

Reply #654530 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

" they were quite happy trusting Talbot with good minutes to the end of the regular season."

Lol I thought about not even engaging with you anymore after I realised you think highly of Phoenix's commentating crew. But you do realise she got those minutes not because they were quite happy trusting her but because at the end of the regular season you rest your players who will be playing heavy minutes in the playoffs?

Reply #654739 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two years ago

Early on.. I like.

Mitchell/Mansfield
Ebzery/Cumming/Wallace
Allen/Talbot
Blicavs/George/Smith
Cambage/Tolo


Maybe time to move on from..
Batkovic, Snell, Hodges, Phillips, Hurst

Out of opals action for some time...
Bishop, Ohea

A step behind...
Lavey, Garrick, Cole, Kunek, Jarry

Might need a chance..
Bunton, Mijovic, Wilson, Seekamp, Wehrung

Reply #654751 | Report this post


AshT  
Two years ago

Not only Phoenix's commentating crew.

Reply #654777 | Report this post




 

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