LoveBroker
Last year

Homicide : Fearne is the man to coach Taipans.

There are 2 articles, both suggesting Fearne is the best man for the job as this is a contract year for him.

This one by Homocide.

http://www.cairnspost.com.au/fearnes-best-man-to-coach-cairns-taipans-in-the-nbl/news-story/4d04b4cee203ee0ba17a161440c0be5b

This one by Samuel Davis.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/taipans-mentor-turned-unholy-mess-into-unprecedented-success/news-story/29acde7903c9bd94a5b6c917a072aa65

Here is one rationale from Homocide.

"Can you name a team in this league that loses a star dominant centre like Nate Jawai and import three man like Michael Carrera at the start of the season and still has a chance to make the finals?

No, you cannot."

Yes....I can. United have lost several players of value to the team for a significant span of time, namely, Goulding, Majok, Andersen, Prather (likely gone for the season). Guess what....United are not only 'a chance to make the finals' but are #1.

I think Fearne is a good coach and overall his tenure at the Taipans has been positive especially with 2 GF appearances.

However, I think Fearne's ceiling is just the playoffs. His teams score too little and shoot too poorly to actually win a championship. Eg. They were the hottest team at the end of the last regular season, yet were embarassingly swept by the Wildcats who have a poor record in Cairns.

Fearne has made good import choices like Wilbekin and Craig, but also a good selection on the other end of the spectrum Egwu, Fuquan Edwin, Carerra, Jerry Evens Jr.

It's bird in the hand worth two in the bush situation. I think Fearne is worth contracting again but to win it all I don't think he can provide that. But its a risk to go away from a known quality.



Topic #42538 | Report this topic


Isaac  
Last year

I'd guess he's doing it on a budget. If I were Cairns, I'd keep him. I doubt he's got Egwu or Evans Jr because he prefers them over Boone and Conger.

Reply #667128 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Its not like Cairns didn't replace Carrera.

Reply #667133 | Report this post


NJS  
Last year

Comparing Cairns and Melb Utd is like comparing Manchester City to Shrewsbury Town. Financially, they're not even in the same league.
I’m not a huge Fearn fan, but you can’t help but admire what he’s done with that place

Reply #667134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Is it just me or does he underutilise his imports? Look at Torrey Craig, Trice and now smith. If I remember correctly Weeks is getting more minutes than him.

Reply #667135 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Yep, agree completely. The Taipans are running on a (comparatively) shoe-string budget, and the fact that they have done as well as they have in his tenure reflects pretty highly of his coaching ability. I'm not sure how well he'd do in a situation like Melbourne or Sydney with a lot of money where you are forced to adapt your gameplan to your personnel though.

Reply #667136 | Report this post


Yinka Dare  
Last year

If Melb united had cairns budget they wouldn't be able to afford any imports after paying Goulding and Anderson. Teamwould be

Anderson
Majok
Barlow
Goulding
Adnam
Hooley
Seabl
Seabl
Seabl

Reply #667139 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Last year his team included Jawai, Wortho, Loughton, Gliddon and Weigh, plus they used four imports across the year. How is that a budget team?

Reply #667148 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Anon, I'm no fan of Fearne and his coaching style and think he wouldn't last long somewhere else but although overstated by Taipans fans he's done a decent job as coach there over the past 8+ seasons. Not only do they stick to the salary cap but reports have been in the past that they fielded teams under the cap.

Jawai's contract is partly paid by the government in an indigenous mentor type role so he's likely not costing them that much financially (on court due to always being injured would be a different story).

Wortho's wife I believe is from the area and as Melb no longer wanted him probably took a discount on his 2/3 year deal. Loughton is embedded in the community there so probably similar with him. Gliddon not sure but doubt any other coach rates him as highly as Fearne does and Weigh's probably fortunate to still be in the league at this point. I doubt Egwu and Edwin/Mitchell were on much last season either.

Reply #667151 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

There comes a time where 'shoe string budget' becomes a tiresome excuse.

The salary cap is $1m but the minimum spend is $900k. Yes I know Sydney and Melbourne go over the cap but we don't have any solid figures.

So they aren't THAT far behind the average spend.

Furthermore, as Sydney of 16/17 and 17/18 and United of 16/17 have proven money (excessive spending) doesn't guarantee success.

Reply #667152 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Err, it's not an excuse, just a fact. Cairns do not spend nearly as much on their roster as other teams. Without figures who can say for sure, but would it be a huge shock if Melbourne were spending 3x what Cairns are on players?

Reply #667154 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Jawai's contract is partly paid by the government in an indigenous mentor type role so he's likely not costing them that much financially (on court due to always being injured would be a different story). "

Sorry but that doesn't make Cairns a budget team. Jawai has a price and Cairns and whoever else paid it. I have no problem with them getting the govt assistance but if they have a high-priced player on their roster, they can't just look at the part they're paying and cry poor.

And I don't think I've ever heard Wortho and discount in the same sentence!

"I doubt Egwu and Edwin/Mitchell were on much last season either."

Why would Mitchell not be on much? He has an impressive resume, just as good as some other players you'd assume to be highly paid.

Reply #667155 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Sorry but that doesn't make Cairns a budget team. Jawai has a price and Cairns and whoever else paid it. I have no problem with them getting the govt assistance but if they have a high-priced player on their roster, they can't just look at the part they're paying and cry poor.


I know what you're saying but look at the 36ers last season with Terrance Ferguson. Supposedly his sponsors were paying the vast majority of his salary and the Sixers weren't paying much for him at all. Does that mean he was a high priced import even though realistically he was one of the worst imports in the league?

And I don't think I've ever heard Wortho and discount in the same sentence!


Not until that last contract sure he would've wanted some stability and his wife would've wanted to be close to her family and being his last contract I'm sure he would've taken a discount.

Why would Mitchell not be on much? He has an impressive resume, just as good as some other players you'd assume to be highly paid.


Not really, before coming to Cairns Mitchell was playing in China's Div 2 league which is pretty mediocre. It's also were Shannon Shorter was playing before coming to the Sixers and I would doubt he's on big money.

Reply #667157 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

It means that the Sixers (and Taipans) can't complain about not having the same budget as other teams just because they get their players funded from elsewhere.

Reply #667168 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Who is complaining? It's just a fact - they don't have the same budget as other teams, and so have to get creative.

Reply #667174 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

They complain all the time! Its the disclaimer put in every thread about Fearne and his lack of success. "We dont have the same budget." Well you do when you get creative.

Good on them for getting creative but crying poor each year is wearing thin.

Reply #667181 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

It's definitely a perception Cairns wants - that it's somehow the poor little regional team who punches above its weight against the big bully city teams. Its fans eat it up.
Petception isn't always reality though

Reply #667187 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

It's not, but in this case it is reality. Why is that hard for some people to admit? They punch above their weight and good on them for it. It's part of the reason they still exist while the Crocs are only a memory.

Reply #667188 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Because they are on a much more even playing field than they like to admit.

Reply #667196 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Yes but you can't have it both ways.

Cairns fans like to use their budget vs success ratio to announce to the world they punch above their weight.

Since they like to use the lack of money as a positive, they can't then turn around and say ohhh...we don't win because we don't have money.

Reply #667199 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

There hasn't been a season where their talent level has been significantly less than anyone elses. Why is that so hard for Cairns fans to admit?

Reply #667201 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Probably because it's not true.

Reply #667206 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

Yeh good call. Yiu

Reply #667210 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Last year

There are no excuses, Fearne must go had MORE than enough chances!

Reply #667216 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

You convinced me.
They've never had quality Australian players - outside of Loughton, Gliddon, Weigh, Worthington, Jawai and now McCarron who have all been Boomers. Tragardh league best sixth man.
And their imports, just awful. Apart from Torrey Craig who's in the nba now, Wilbekin who was fringe nba, Wilson, Trice, ubaka etc etc.

They might not have the budget (on the face of it) of other teams but they've always had talent

Reply #667217 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

The fact that your list of Australian talent has to stretch far enough to include Worthington on his last legs and Stephen Weigh just makes my poin.

Reply #667236 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

And I might be remembering incorrectly, but pretty sure Wilbekin/Craig/Trice were all rookies? And two of those guys ended up getting poached by another NBL team.

Reply #667237 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

Weigh was in the Boomers squad in 2012, joined Cairns in 2013. And so what if the imports were rookies, doesn't mean they weren't talented. Maybe that's why they were poached??

Reply #667240 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Kobe, with all due respect, you mustn't have watched much Taipans if you think Wortho's play in Cairns adds to your point. He was really good

Reply #667242 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Means that $$$ wise there is a big difference between bringing in a guy for his first gig than an experience ex-NBA or ex-Euro import. Law of averages should mean that for every Wilbekin you get 2 or 3 Scoochie's, but Cairns have generally done a good job of bringing in rookies who can contribute straight away.

Reply #667244 | Report this post


Kingpodge  
Last year

I get it now. You call him Homocide because insinuating he's gay is hilarious!!

just, pure, genius......

Reply #667250 | Report this post


J  
Last year

Gleeson mentioned in an interview when he was a younger it was his way or the highway, now its probably nicer for the players.

Looking at the way Fearne treats his pgs i would say its his way or the highway. He is no doubt a very good coach, but i think he needs to loosen up a few things, take scoochie it was like he got worse the more he learnt and played within the system.

Reply #667261 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year


Reply #667263 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

If what I'm told is true, Cairns are spending less than half what Melbourne and Sydney are on players this season. Can't confirm it obviously, but it gives you some idea of the difference.

Reply #667266 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Pretty sure I read somewhere that their operating budget was about $3.5mill

Reply #667270 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

If what I'm told is true, Cairns are spending less than half what Melbourne and Sydney are on players this season. Can't confirm it obviously, but it gives you some idea of the difference.
'Less than half' by how much? I wouldn't be surprised if Melbourne and Sydney were spending 3-4 times what Cairns is. You could technically describe that as 'less than half', but I'm not sure anyone would.

Reply #667273 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

The fact that Fearne has had so many regular season wins helps make my point - Cairns has never had a lack of talent. A lower budget, sure, but not a lack of talent.

And, again, Cairns might be spending less than other clubs but if a guy like Jawai's contract is largely being paid through government grants, that needs to be taken into consideration. It's not a blight on Cairns for doing it - quite the opposite - but it does add context to their overall spend.

Reply #667277 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

The fact that Fearne can attract decent talent on the league's lowest budget is a very strong case for why he should be retained.

He is also hugely respected by other coaches for the way he prepares his teams, they see going against him as a big challenge.

If Cairns are going to replace him, they'd need to be damn sure they've got someone who can recruit on a budget and prepare every bit as well.


Reply #667278 | Report this post


WookieE  
Last year

But Snooch, you're just attributing the wins to talent and not coaching... What others are saying that it's not just all talent and splashing cash on big name players and a fair portion of it has to go to the coaching...

It's true that Cairns have had (backup) Boomers level talent, but you can't say they bought Boomers talent, they grew them, for the most part... Jawai is the only standout of buying talent and that was only because he was a local and the government helped pick up the tab... I know, it still counts to the cap, but if the government didn't help, they wouldn't have been able to afford it and that's the difference when they talk about Cairns being able to afford a certain level of players... Especially of the level that can help then reach that next step and that is the difference between being able to spend more on the budget than working within their means...

They've bought cheap imports that turned out to be quality, and have then been poached by other teams... They've had solid NBL level talent, but not stellar and not across the board, like some teams... They've had to stick with probably underperforming imports or locals because they haven't had the spare cash to sack them, pay them out and bring in someone new... These are all limitations due to their budget and for that, I'm definitely in the camp of them punching above their weight...

If they had half the budget that a Sydney or Melbourne team are spending, they would be able to splash out on that one extra quality import that could have pushed them into the playoffs... Fearne's win average per season (over 8?) is about 14 games... sometimes that's good enough for playoffs and sometimes it isn't... He's consistently so very close and ff they had enough cash to have say held onto Wilbekin for a few seasons and brought in who they did after, it would be a different story...

Reply #667282 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

I'm actually trying to break the misconception that Fearne is some super coach who's been able to rack up these amazing achievements with no talent. And that's not the case.

I agree with Paul that he's been able to sign decent talent on a budget. Why he's been unable to keep that talent - particularly the import talent, is up for debate. Some would say they've been poached, others might argue they didn't like his coaching style and/or system so left (think Craig and Trice).


Reply #667286 | Report this post


WookieE  
Last year

Yeah, agree with Trice and Craig for sure... I wasn't following too closely at the time, but remember lots of comments from people along those lines...

I guess he's got a focus on his system and local talent and the import talent takes a back seat... That isn't always a good thing, so some flexibility would be good... I still think that for what he's had to work with, it's been very respectable...

I disagree with Angus though that he'd have to change his gameplan to suit the personnel, I think it would be more a case of being free to open up his style a bit more as he hasn't had a limited talent pool to work with and would have had to drill into them the game plan... Sort of like if he gets Weeks, Gliddon and McCarron all shooting consistently from outside enough that teams had to treat them as real threats every single time, he'd be free to adapt his offence, but with seasons of not having those consistent outside scorers (from memory, I could be wrong) he's had to work a certain way...

Reply #667288 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

He's not that good.

Reply #667289 | Report this post


Snooch  
Last year

Fearne has also done a lot off the court in the past in terms of coaching and player development that he deserves credit for. The job more than likely would be his long term if he wanted it.

But getting back to the op - Fearne hasn't done anything spectacular this year. As mentioned a coach like Shawn Dennis proved what he's capable of with limited talent, as has Geordie McLeod. There's nothing to say they couldn't have done just as well, if not better, in the circumstances.

Reply #667290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Gleeson also did a remarkable job with his limited budget teams in Townsville. Now he's arguably the most hated coach in the league. I think that speaks more to the whole underdog story that everyone loves, and one that Cairns is happy to promote.

Reply #667292 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Last year his team included Jawai, Wortho, Loughton, Gliddon and Weigh, plus they used four imports across the year. How is that a budget team?
Jawai isn't that consistently dominant - I wouldn't sign him. Loughton got named in the retirees thread. Weigh has hardly lit up the league - probably wouldn't sign him either. I think all have started at some point this year.

Sydney would bust the cap with 3-4 players IMO. Melbourne too.

Fearne is overperforming. Cairns would be crazy to drop him without a really reliable plan. The fact that they as a small-market, budget team can't be ruled out of contention year after year is fairly impressive, I think.

Reply #667293 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

Fearne is a great coach, because he gets a lot out of his players.

2 recent grand finals, and a consistently competitive team is an impressive result from a club who we know spends less than most other clubs, and probably substantially less than a few.

Reply #667294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I saw somewhere that Cairns have a general operations budget of 3 mil. a year while Melbourne have 10

And yeah, only coach i can think of tht does better on a budget is McLeod

Reply #667306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Source for operations budgets?

Reply #667308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Behind a paywall unfortunately so i'm having trouble getting the link but the article is titled "chargers eye $5 million NBL budget

Reply #667311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Just link it with paywall

Reply #667337 | Report this post


WookieE  
Last year

Gleeson also did a remarkable job with his limited budget teams in Townsville. Now he's arguably the most hated coach in the league. I think that speaks more to the whole underdog story that everyone loves, and one that Cairns is happy to promote.

Most hated by opposition fans, yes, and mainly for his behaviour on the sidelines than anything else... Unlike Gaze who is hated by a majority of his teams own fans...

Reply #667340 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Most hated by opposition fans, yes, and mainly for his behaviour on the sidelines than anything else."

There isn't much difference between the carry-on from Gleeson and Fearne, but as long as Fearne can be seen to be the little hybrid battler then its allowable.

Reply #667345 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

When I've been courtside there has been a huge difference between the way they talk to refs and act on the sidelines.

Having said that, Gleeson is a standout coach, regardless of how he acts he has the runs on the board as far as results go.

Reply #667346 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

For the record....Even Cam Gliddon believed / believes fans should not be concerned with the spending disparity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-26/regional-teams-not-bothered-by-rich-city-cousins-spending-spree/7649052

"Cairns Taipans captain Cameron Gliddon has been watching the perceived spending by big city teams but said fans of the Taipans should not worry."

"It's no secret there is a huge disparity between what we can pay someone and what Melbourne or Brisbane can pay someone but what goes with that is living in the city," he said.

"Real estate prices and costs of living are a huge factor, so if you weigh all of that up then signing for X amount of dollars here but going somewhere else for $30,000 extra may not be the best option."

There you have it....even though Cairns spend a little less than the other teams, those amounts go a long way in Cairns.

Lets remove the notion that the having less money means Cairns is disadvantaged now.

Reply #667394 | Report this post


Twinkletoes  
Last year

"Lets remove the notion that the having less money means Cairns is disadvantaged now."

That's a ridiculous statement LoveBroker and yet another one of your exaggerations

Reply #667403 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

If you take exception to it, take it up with Cam Gliddon, he's the one suggesting living with the cost of living in Cairns is worth $30k in a big city.

Its not all that ridiculous, the AFL provided Sydney a $1m extra cap to cover the additional expenses that comes from living in Sydney. So cost of living is something that comes into consideration when signing with Sydney or Cairns.

Reply #667407 | Report this post


Twinkletoes  
Last year

That doesn't mean that Cairns is still not disadvantaged. The top spending teams are spending a $1,000,000+ more than the Taipans.

Reply #667409 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

I've heard the Taipans put up their imports and may be covering housing costs for others

Reply #667411 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

So Cairns is sometimes a better overall "remuneration package" than a bigger budget big city team?

The AFL Sydney allowance isn't that relevant. The AFL players are paid so much the higher cost of living shouldn’t bother them. If they bought in Sydney, recent housing market history would suggest it’s a sound investment for capital growth.

NBL wages are much lower than AFL wages though. So lower cost of living makes a greater difference to your overall financial position.

If Cairns provide accommodation, it’s a smart move. The local economy is very much dependent on tourism. NBL season is in tourism off season in the area. There’s some very nice fully furnished apartments in Cairns and other places nearby. A team benefactor could provide an apartment either gratis or at a very good price and still rent it out for top dollars in tourist season. I’d imagine an import coming over for 1 season would love it, especially if the tourism operators hand out free cruises etc. in exchange for publicity photos to promote their attractions.

Ronald McDonald House have a 2 bed apartment at Mantra Amphora at Palm Cove for families with seriously ill children. Families stay for a week with free accommodation, tours and entry to attractions including go karting and Rainforest Retreat, who sponsor the program. They fundraise to find the money to run it (about $1500 per week I believe). Families are really grateful and I think most would tell the sponsoring businesses so. Most sponsors stay on board for years. If Cairns Taipans can harness this sort of local support to subsides players to go there for lifestyle reasons, good on 'em.

Reply #667573 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Fearne's legit!

Like every year, Cairns success is dependent on how much better than expected their imports are.

Lets see some comparison of non import cores, Cairns v NZ v Perth

Reply #667826 | Report this post




 

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