Anonymous
Last year

Grand Final Game 2 foul count disparity

And you all wonder why this league gets no coverage.

Topic #42918 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last year

Go away child. One team played hard and took it to the other. United were bitch slapped off the court today. Deal with it.

Reply #678717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Is there a rule in Basketball which says the foul count has to be even?

Reply #678718 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

LOL Adelaide fans celebrating a win where there team had a FT advantage of 40-16 LOL

Reply #678721 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Are you really laughing out loud? United effort on defence allowed 40 free throws. Yikes, that's some terrible basketball.

Reply #678722 | Report this post


Rape feels nice  
Last year

Hate United but fuck me were they raped by the officials today.

Yet another bullshit win to 36ers.

Reply #678728 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

So United foul too many times and you complain bitch.
I backed the United and I am complaining they fouled too many times. Grow a pair.

Reply #678729 | Report this post


Very Old  
Last year

Juniors , seniors, high level, low level, it makes no difference, you can teach players how to defend without fouling, and you can also teach them how to play in a way that means they can't be stopped without fouling by the defense. So many without this experience in the sport just don't get it, and just follow the heard in respect of assuming some balance in the foul count is some sort of indication of good officiating.

Most fouls occur when the offense is challenging the defense with either pace, positioning , or both.

But it appears no coach has ever taught Goulding not to slap down from shoulder level, from behind the player , onto a ball held securely in both hands, in full view of a referee who has been standing there for at least 10-15 seconds.

thats not "home cooking" or unbalanced officiating, thats just a stupid player.

Reply #678733 | Report this post


Very Old  
Last year

"herd"

Reply #678734 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

The 36ers averaged 1 FT per minute the WHOLE GAME?

LOLOLOLOLOL

Reply #678736 | Report this post


ferdterguson  
Last year

If one team attacks the rim every possession and gets into the bonus in most quarters and the other team settles for jump shots FT discrepancies can occur.

It may be more helpful to look at the incorrect foul calls rather than just the raw FT numbers.

Reply #678740 | Report this post


Em  
Last year

There were so many fouls called esp on Barlow and Goulding - standing there under the ring hands straight up - FOUL???? Ridiculous - obviously been told to take the game to 4 or 5 games.

Reply #678741 | Report this post


BVL  
Last year

It would have been good to see the game officiated a bit tougher.

It got to the point where the United players had to let them go right by them so not get called for a foul.

The crowd and players were amped up at the start but the refs took the sting out of the game.

Reply #678742 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Same refs as last game yet it was called completely differently

Absolute nonsense and would be investigated by the FBI if the game was in the USA

Reply #678744 | Report this post


BVL  
Last year

Yep I think it is a poor choice to have the same refs 2 games in a row.

New refs can go in impartial and not to affected by comments (by the losing coach) or any talking between players.

Reply #678745 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

LK has to MAXIMISE his profits.

This series is going to 5 with EVERY home team winning

LK is a business man FIRST

Reply #678746 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

United attempted 16 more threes than the 36ers. I don't recall them drawing fouls on any of their 40 3PA.

Reply #678748 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

It's an indictment really on basketball fans in this country that some people can't work out one team attacks the hoop at 90 k's an hour all game every game and the other team likes jacking up 3's all game.

Who would've thought there would be a discrepancy in foul shots?

Reply #678750 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Anon, if you're so confident that games are engineered for home teams to win, go bet your house on it. Or think about both semi series only going to two games...

Reply #678752 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Isaac

United attempted 34 3s on Friday night compared to Adelaide's 9 yet United attempted more FTs than the 36ers.

You can see what is going on.

Referees ORDERED to take this to 5.

This league is a farce

Reply #678754 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

Said numerous times, you can't defend other than a foul or a free drive. What's the difference in inishiating a foul or a flop?

Reply #678755 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

Nonsense. Wesley had a number of nice blocks in the first half on Chill that could easily have been blown as fouls, yet weren't. Adelaide's style of play puts them at the line, it's as simple as that.

Reply #678756 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Initiating

lol

Reply #678757 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

Sorry I can't spell

Reply #678758 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

What's the lol for? You perfect?

Reply #678759 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

It's one of the funnier phonetic attempts you have to admit, surprised your phone/tablet/computer didn’t scream at you

Reply #678761 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

Good luck to you, why people have to point out something just to make them feel better?

Reply #678763 | Report this post


Dome Rat  
Last year

OP

United had 20 more FGA than the 36ers. What's your point?

Reply #678765 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

It was just an amusing typo, get over it - you must be bored with Perth being useless

Reply #678767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Adelaide just attacks the rim relentlessly, doesn't mean it should be a foul. They regularly just launch at the defence and get bailed out. 36ers fans seem to think their players are always straight up, hodgson when he crushed Ware (look where he jumped from and where he landed) yet at the other end players that are straight up or in a legal guarding position are magically doing the wrong thing because the 36ers play so fast, they must be out of position.

You are buying your won bullshit, that usually leads to failure.

Reply #678768 | Report this post


ME  
Last year

Maybe your team fouled 40 times? Get over yourself. Didn't goulding flop enough for your liking?

Reply #678769 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

own* not won

Reply #678770 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Well the morons have arrived on this thread. Isaac don't waste your breathe the tin foil hat brigade are here. Makes the win even sweeter.

Reply #678771 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

It's a good thing Melbourne can hit 3's because the only other thing they managed to do today was hit Adelaide players as they were blowing by them. They looked like they were playing in the masters games.

Reply #678777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Agreed udog, United looked incredibly slow and the moment there was some scoreboard pressure they folded. I genuinely think of Childress is fit, this series is now in Adelaide's favour. A massive response. If they get a 6point lead in the 3rd again in Melbourne it’ll be a different story.

Reply #678778 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

I'm bored seeing that banner go down every year!

Reply #678780 | Report this post


Cat's 4 life  
Last year

Flop no flop you can't possibly defend a team when the whistle blows like it is a automatically a foul. It's happend all season.

Reply #678781 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

Perth invented the flop. You should have kept the copyright.

Reply #678787 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

All sports are like this to a degree. Debates over refereeing styles are eternal.

My take is that human psychology plays a big part in it.

You have two very, very good teams who have barely lost any games in the past couple of months. Coming into the series, most astute basketball fans thought this would be a very tight series, and the majority of people tipped it would go to 5 games. Reason being- again, simple. Two very good teams.

Now, in basketball you have 5 fouls and you're out. Once you get two early fouls, or 3 before half time, you automatically start modifying the way you play defense. Once the game has been going for 3 or 4 minutes teams start adjusting their play to the way the refs are calling it.

There are many 50-50 calls in basketball. Or grey areas. Calls where you watch the replay and two fans can amicably disagree about the call. Calls that in real time, could "go either way".

When you have thousands of people screaming at you, you're more likely to favour the home team. It's biological, and it's subconscious. There are psychological and maybe even evolutionary reasons why this is the case.

When you have two teams who are very, very good, and 5% of the calls change direction and go the other way, it makes a huge difference to momentum, confidence, the way the players feel they are allowed to play, etc.

This is an intractable problem, but fairly simply when you break it down like this.

It's why I'm thankful that United has home court advantage in this series.

Reply #678788 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

The way United played, they will need more than home court champ.

Reply #678795 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

The same psychological factors that influence the refs also influence the players.

Why does the home team win the majority of the time, across virtually all sports and all leagues?

Crowd has to be a huge part of it.

Reply #678804 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Perth invented the flop."

Short memory. Goorjian's Kings team were notorious for flopping. Bruton, Hinder, Smith and Wortho on the same team...that’s HoF level flopping right there.

Reply #678806 | Report this post


JOaRiDrAN  
Last year

Melbourne lost because they are soft. By the end of the 3rd quarter the rebound count was 40-19. Ended up being 53-36

No team will win a grand final game -20 in rebounding.

Can't wait for Friday

Reply #678807 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

When was last time Goulding attacked rim like Sobey, when did Barlow attack it like Creek, Ware has little tear drops opposed to sixers pgs. Sooky lala!!!!!

Reply #678808 | Report this post


FM  
Last year

Ambulance Victoria has put out a CODE RED for more staff to work this Friday.

Apparently if Melbourne lose the game, they will all need stretchers to get them off the court and home that night.

Reply #678810 | Report this post


Very Old  
Last year

IMHO Its a bit late for these children to still be up on a school night,

Reply #678812 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Comments about the series being fixed are ridiculous. Having the same three refs work each finals series is important to enable consistency - not that this has happened. Imagine if different refs umpired each game - much more likely that interpretation and application changes between games. Issue is that all refs are susceptible to the home court crowds. Embarrassing situation for the NBL that two highly competitive games so far have been marred by both coaches and some players publicly commenting on how each game has been officiated. The calls depend on which stadium the game is being played in - simple as that. I'm sure the refs don’t go out intending on being horribly inconsistent. That said, if this goes to 5, hopefully the Sixers have plenty of travelling fans to level it out

Reply #678820 | Report this post


Cram  
Last year

You won't find a bigger critic of Kestleman than me, and yet even I won't come close to making claims of riggged games or instructing refs to call games to ensure a 5 games series. Its absurd.

NBL refs, are usually pretty terrible, but they are doing their best. A system of semi pro refs just isn't good enough. Don't mistake ineffectiveness for deception.

Reply #678821 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

The two games have been called differently, as many have commented. A lot more was let go in Game 1. Calling it tighter in the second looked to advantage the penetrating team. The refs usually indicate to captains/coaches/players before the game what they will be focusing on. Wouldn't surprise me if they'd adjusted to call it tighter.

The idea that players and coaches reference the refs is nothing outlandish - they do it every game. Everyone feels like they're the ones getting screwed. Every coach in a series makes comments trying to influence the calling style in the subsequent game.

In both games there were dud calls, as in all games. One of the worst was in G1 where the ball went out off Barlow, after he juggled the ball, and United kept possession. There was at least one equivalent in G2 that favoured Adelaide.

Ware's fifth foul didn't look to be much to me and I would've let them play on (looked tame and DJ retained the ball) in the interest of playing basketball and keeping the best players in the game. I commented as such on Twitter and had responses both way - 'Another example of United getting screwed' vs 'Ware was at fault, should've known better.' (I'm an Adelaide fan but had money on Melbourne, and occasionally pretend not to be too biased.)

Anyway, during the season, Melbourne were the second highest fouling team. Despite their pace, and easily the highest scoring game, Adelaide were the second lowest. Melbourne second in 3PA, Adelaide clear last.

In the regular season, Adelaide's opponents averaged almost 4 FPG more than any other team. Assuming you get HCA-type bias around the league (Perth, NZ, etc), I imagine you can put this down to the style of game they play.

Reply #678823 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

It's the game style and Melbourne were terrible yesterday but people always want to have an excuse. Thosr stats were always going to cause lots of bleating.

Reply #678827 | Report this post


Pete  
Last year

United tried to use the dirty Perth model to slow the running game down. This is the end result, thankfully.

As others said, Melb jack threes constantly where Adelaide drive hard.

That said, there were RIDICULOUS calls in both directions. Hardly any consistency and at points, endangered players.


In any case, I'm surprised Goulding's neck is still able to function. Any time a human passes within 3 feet of him, he performs a spot on re-enactment of JFK's execution.

Reply #678831 | Report this post


If all the fouls were being called the same then Andersen would have fouled out in his first 60 seconds. I have a huge amount of respect for what he's achieved in his career and he's virtually unstoppable around the basket, so I don't know why he's resorting to grabbing, holding, pushing, illegal screens. He got away with so much yesterday, I was actually quite surprised with his tactics given his talent and game-smarts.

Reply #678837 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

NBL referees are nothing more than home town cheer leaders.

Reply #678840 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

Anderson is getting old so his speed isn't whatit used to be. Probably why he's grabbing. Can't keep up.

Reply #678842 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Pete - I would have thought the same could be said for Sobey. He seems to have trouble controlling his head/neck.

Reply #678846 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

This is hilarious. Adelaide fans have been whinging about lopsided foul counts and home cooking for as long as they've been getting knocked out of the playoffs. now that if worked in their favour, they are saying its all ok because thats the style they play.

Reply #678848 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

eta - if you can't shoot from outside, apparently you deserve more free throws!

Reply #678849 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

The REAL question is, if Dean Vickerman knows the 36ers are an aggressive penetrating team, why didn't Melbourne adjust their defence accordingly? They tried to play aggressive defence on a team who have proven they don’t mind a physical game and draw fouls.
In Melbourne the 36ers shooting was off and they weren’t attacking boards otherwise Adelaide would be 2-1 up. Adelaide accepted responsibility for their own screw ups and to see Melb complain and now hear the rain of excuses make me realise that their fans have zero confidence in their team.
Call it as it is. Melbourne’s D was shocking and didn’t adjust and are lucky the margin was only 15. If they don’t adjust this series is OVER.

If Melbourne’s fans are saying as Fev has that Casper was on one leg. Tell him to not play the next game because obviously he’s a liability just as Childress could be if he plays injured. If Melbourne play him then once again put your adult pants on and own your team’s performance.

Em - when did they get into the position? Did the player already have his hands on the ball or taking off? Were their last movements towards the ball carrier shortening the distance and so ensuring contact. Were they straight up and turn their body to get contact? My point being that being straight up doesn’t guarantee a no call because there are many other aspects which can cause fouls.

Reply #678850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Agree the reffing was crap but Melbourne defence was woeful, Melbourne should've adjusted and didn’t. Prather great player that he is got 20 but think he stagnates the offence. Melbourne will have to toughen up and go back to what got them there in the first place.

Reply #678855 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

@NBLfacts:

*Most FT attempts in a Grand Final game since Perth took 47 (to Adelaide's 13) in game one of 2014 GF series.
Now, there's a disparity!

NBL referees are nothing more than home town cheer leaders.
I assume you're the same person who has been posting about this for months, about cheating refs, and the NBL engineering games and all that junk. Given your confidence, no doubt you've bet accordingly and strongly. But for some reason I'm doubting you'd willingly show proof of that...

Reply #678857 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Yes I remember that game Isaac. Specifically, all of the Adelaide fans saying "the FT count was lopsided because the other team was more attacking and we deserved to lose!"

Reply #678859 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

Another interesting one:

The @MelbUnitedHQ have taken 64 three-point shots in the first 2 games of this @NBL Grand Final series. (36ers have taken 64 free-throw's in first 2 games)

That is the most 3-PTA's by any team since the Sydney Kings took 80 in first two games of 2006 Grand Final.

Reply #678860 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

Easy equations

Lots of 3's = less fouls as defender hangs back and only has to jump straight up.

Lots of attacking, fast, penetration = more fouls because defenders have to play close and move fast.

Melbourne looked really slow yesterday and only tbe 3's have kept them in both the first 2 games.

Reply #678862 | Report this post


Udog  
Last year

So 47 to 13 in 2014 is the record? That just for 40 minute games?

Reply #678863 | Report this post


Pete  
Last year

Anon - I feel like Sobey has cut down on the throw your head back crap to some extent. Drmic still has a bit of that in him though.

I noticed Adnam now does it quite a bit. Don't remember him over acting that much when he was here. But then, he barely played here.

Reply #678872 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I'd hate to see what Sobey was like before then as it happened quite a bit on Sunday.

Reply #678876 | Report this post


Pete  
Last year

As much as I hate NBL refs, they were largely responsible for stamping out Sobey's trying to draw a foul antics with their insta-calls on flops early on.

Reply #678884 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Like others have said even if you take into account some flops and bad calls, there's always going to be a difference in the number of fouls when you have 2 teams with very different styles of play.

Reply #678885 | Report this post


sixtiesrockstar  
Last year

If anything the refs have put away the flop call, and are calling anything where a players is attempting a shot or layup and there is contact. Not really a bad thing as players need to adapt. If Melb continue to shoot so heavily from deep then the foul count will continue to be different. The fouls for Adelaide have been the same all season sp the finals are not being called all that differently. They play fast tempo and attack the rim and the defenders are slow and have crap footwork.

Reply #678886 | Report this post


Interested  
Last year

What I didn't like seeing in this game was the two occasions Sobey deliberately hit Boone in the side/back, off the ball with cheap shots.

He is an exceptional talent when he is on, but a pretty poor display, especially when your team is already up by 20.

I just hope this series isn't ruined by injuries or some sort of brain implosion

Reply #678887 | Report this post


BVL  
Last year

Any word on Childress?

Reply #678918 | Report this post


Pete  
Last year

Wesley attempting a single leg takedown... but Sobey is the Cobra Kai alumni?

Reply #678921 | Report this post


Ayjay  
Last year

Maybe the NBL can organise an overseas referee exchange programme during the season and come finals use external independent referees for the finals series.

I would have loved to have the Asian referees we saw over here for the world cup doing this finals series.

The current squad of referees desperately need retraining, upgrading or something. The standard and consistency has declined to an almost all time low.

The current frustration level of all teams and spectators is immense, regardless of win or lose.

An in season exchange programme might be a great help to improve their abilities and qualification ratings internationally and I'm sure our refs wouldn't object. There might be unseen benefits through such an alliance as well.

Maybe Foxtel could contribute to the cost!

Reply #678928 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Foxtel don't even contribute to the TV rights so why would they pay for refs. #freeloaders

Reply #678930 | Report this post


FM  
Last year

You need to slow the Sixers down for two reasons. 1. They are scoring at this speed and are attacking increasing the risk of fouls. 2. If you foul, it gives your team a little spell to get their breath back.

Sixers are keen to go flat out for the 40 minutes. Most of their opposition struggle with this, fouling keeps them physically in the game. Fouling too much gives them extended rest however increases the workload on the best 7.

I guess a few NBL teams need to get fitter and faster over the season break.

Reply #678947 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Love how the thread title has been changed to appear more mature. But each reply has the 'HAHAHAHA' crap still...

Dead issue one team went hard and attacked, one team didn’t show up.

Reply #678996 | Report this post




 

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