4000

They need to work hard.
First thing is to create a point of difference with United. Why barrack for them instead of United?
United have had great attendances based on their success. Phoenix would be looking to piggyback on top of that and tap into the off weeks of United, maybe. With two teams they might be able to get fans to make sure they got to a game each week. I haven't seen a roster, but maybe a sneaky promotion might be a 2 for 1 for United members when Phoenix are playing at home and United away.

Why are they playing some games at the SNAHC? Surely they're better off playing any games away from Melbourne Arena at the SBC?

scratch that. Think I saw a dodgey schedule

Melbourne Arena won't look great if they get under 5,000 IMO

For the non-Melbournites, what's the proximity of the stadiums/fanbase? I know United have had free reign over the city for a few years now, but for such a tribal city, will this be a factor?

Really hard to know. They're playing a couple of games in the "heartland" out at Knox which is a good move, but won't really see full benefits of that until the stadium upgrade. Once that is done it'd be good to have the team based out there permanently to create a point of difference.

Hopefully they can successfully market themselves as the underdogs.

The Renegades were always the working mans franchise in the BBL. The Stars had Eddie McGuire, Shane Warne and the MCG, and players wanted to be there. Renegades were at Marvel stadium and without the big names.

But- they've built a loyal supporter base. Initially they went hard for in game entertainment, and now have morphed into playing games all around Victoria eg: Geelong, Gippsland.

Phoenix should be playing a substantial number of games outside of Melbourne Arena to differentiate themselves from United. Build initial loyal support in a number of suburban areas. And keep 8 or 9 games at Melbourne Arena so that your Melbourne fans have enough games to attend. Thing is, not many people would go to every game anyway. 8 or 9 is enough, but 5 or 6 suburban games means you can build small pockets of supporters and genuine buzz in different areas. I’m thinking 3 games at Knox, 2 in Geelong, and perhaps 1 in Bendigo or Ballarat.

Many of those fans might travel to Melbourne for a game or two as well.

Negotiate with Knox, Geelong and Bendigo/Ballarat councils, and see if they will foot some of the bill for promoting games in those areas. Then pour your advertising, game night entertainment and promotions budgets into your 8 or 9 Melbourne games to make sure they’re really an exciting event.

(I think from memory the actual schedule is 4 at Knox and 10 at Melbourne Arena?)

I like Geelong because the Supercats get great support down there, and they support an AFL team too. Clearly there's sporting interest. So why not get something going in Summer- in addition to the one or 2 BBL games?

Geelong doesn't really suit the "South East Melbourne" brand though does it?

Well..yeah. Fair point that.

I would've gone with Victoria or Melbourne. No reason you can't have two Melbourne's.

It's probably a good marketing POD. Make yourself the underdog, cater to the fans by having a few "regional" games. Although having said that I'm not too sure that it worked out well for the Breakers.

If they haven't already, Phoenix could have some great merch. opportunities. Imagine using the flame theme, and birds. Flames of hats, shirts, flaming socks for Father's Day. Stick on temporary tattoos.

On the crowd question, it really depends how hard they go with advertising and promotions. The way they've built United up has been superb, and there’s potential in Melbourne to support two teams. But will they pour enough $ into it? I don’t know, and haven’t been paying enough attention to notice.

The SEM fanbase is going to be a weird mix of the following:

- Disgruntled Tigers fans who don’t like LK because United is not the Tigers.

- Disgruntled old NBL people who don’t like United because they smell too much like the Tigers.

- Basketball fans who follow casually, may even attend United games but have no strong allegiance to United and willing to try another team, especially if some games are closer to home.

- Families from the East side whose kids play at stadiums where Phoenix is trying to make inroads.

- People who notice the NBL as a result of wider factors, NBA interest or whatever, and decide to give NBL a go after seeing some advertising or hearing someone talk about it.

I’m not too optimistic about initial crowds, partly because United has developed into such a beast. They’ve grown so fast, it’s hard to see Phoenix immediately growing at a similar rate without any success behind them. However if LK persists with his marketing nous and $, I could see Phoenix gradually growing and building consistently, and establishing themselves over a 3-4 year period to the point where they’re getting 6,000-7,000 to a game at Melbourne Arena.

On the crowd question, it really depends how hard they go with advertising and promotions. The way they've built United up has been superb, and there’s potential in Melbourne to support two teams. But will they pour enough $ into it? I don’t know, and haven’t been paying enough attention to notice.

The SEM fanbase is going to be a weird mix of the following:

- Disgruntled Tigers fans who don’t like LK because United is not the Tigers.

- Disgruntled old NBL people who don’t like United because they smell too much like the Tigers.

- Basketball fans who follow casually, may even attend United games but have no strong allegiance to United and willing to try another team, especially if some games are closer to home.

- Families from the East side whose kids play at stadiums where Phoenix is trying to make inroads.

- People who notice the NBL as a result of wider factors, NBA interest or whatever, and decide to give NBL a go after seeing some advertising or hearing someone talk about it.

I’m not too optimistic about initial crowds, partly because United has developed into such a beast. They’ve grown so fast, it’s hard to see Phoenix immediately growing at a similar rate without any success behind them. However if LK persists with his marketing nous and $, I could see Phoenix gradually growing and building consistently, and establishing themselves over a 3-4 year period to the point where they’re getting 6,000-7,000 to a game at Melbourne Arena.

Some really great points LV. A point of difference to United should be Phoenix's aim.

As for average crowd, im hopeful for an avg of 5500, which I believe is attainable even if they are near the bottom in the standings:

Their home games against United should attract their biggest crowds, maybe 7000 to 8000 for those games.

Big draw card games against Sydney, Perth and Illawarra (lamelo effect) could see some good numbers of around 6000.

Their other games and home games outside of MA might avg 3500?

Just rough predictions.

I think this is a realistic goal for average crowds:

Year 1 - 4,500 Melbourne, 2,000 Knox.
Year 2- 5,000 Melbourne, 2,500 Knox.
Year 3- 6,000 Melbourne, 3,000 Knox.
Year 4- 7,000 Melbourne, 3,500 Knox.

The problem is that Melbourne Arena lacks atmosphere with smaller crowds. To get the place rocking you generally need 6,000 people. Otherwise you need a super engaged, loud crowd who are engrossed in a quality game.

Yes, having a "point of difference" (ie why support us instead of MU) CAN be important, but they have to be careful not to take it too far and shoot themselves in the foot.
Their biggest focus must be on winning games.

"Underdogs"? No, definitely NOT.
People who support teams out of sympathy, don't tend to spend much money, and if you become successful, you negate the underdog premise anyway.

I don't really know the Melbourne demographics, but whatever regions they have identified as "theirs", they just need to work their arses off in. Spread the message that "We are YOUR team."

And if your stadium is going to be half empty, then FFS give tickets away to the school kids.