Well played anon!
My take from this is Adelaide will need to be the most intense team in the NBL to make a run at playoffs. Tonight Utah are at a completely differently level of urgency and the 36ers have just been locked out of the game.
The other thing is how dependent they will be on Griffin, they really lack athleticism in the frontcourt outside of him. He's looked pretty impressive though, particularly on D.
Adelaide are barely even on the court with these guys and Utah are doing whatever the hell they feel like. I thought in the first 5 minutes we might actually hang around but when the Jazz lead got to 10, I could just feel the blow out was on and this scoreline is going to get UGLY.
This does the NBL no favours. Even as a die hard NBL fan, I'm finding the league hard to take serious when I watch our guys get outclassed so comprehensively. This is men against boys out here. It is absolutely embarrassing. We've had interesting matches with lesser NBA teams. We've had a couple of competitive games. But I think it's time to throw this concept in, at least until we see a substantial improvement in the league.
Also, another thing that this highlights to me is that the 36ers have no decent Aussies. None. I don't really wanna hear about Daniel Johnson. As far as I am concerned there are 4 or 5 Aussie players in the league who could compete on that floor and Adelaide has none of them.
"What makes this scoreline especially concerning is that Utah didn't play their Top 3 players."
Not concerning for me at all because the players they have playing have more to play for. Better than a half motivated Mitchell with the rest of the players doing the team thing by passing the ball to the stars and standing in the corner. These Jazz players are playing for their court time, they are hungry.
This gane started well but yikes getting very out of hand. Not a great look for the NBL. Getting very ugly for Adelaide.
Wildcats got spanked last year but that was without 2 starters in Martin and Brandt and against a pretty much full strength Jazz.
This is a full strength adelaide against a very undermanned Jazz.
You're almost right Zodiac but I must correct you Perth were thumped by Utah but only lost to Denver by 7 or 8.
It's irrelevant anyway, if people are using margins of loss to justify their teams efforts they're embarrassing themselves.
NBA teams will never give more than [email protected]% effort in these games.
FWIW Perth will shit over Adelaide this season.
The sad thing for me is we've seen the 36ers play better against Utah before, and Utah were even playing some of their better players. The game got away from us when we got away from our imports, and when everyone else was being way too careful and gun shy. In these games you have to let it fly to give yourself a shot. You have to back yourself, make plays and throw caution to the wind. The 36ers played scared and are in line for a morale-destroying and league-diminishing 60 point loss. I don't see any positives in doing this anymore. It disrupts the season and makes our league look second rate.
And there are SOME reasons why NBA teams do this to us beyond mere talent. We're playing their rules, their courts, their court dimensions, after flying half way across the world. 60 points probably isn't what 36ers would lose by on an NBL court with FIBA rules. But still, whatever the reasons, this is embarrassing and makes the league look FAR from the second best in the world.
"Should just limited these nba games to teams like United, wildcats and kings, who would not embarrass the league"
Perth had one poor performance and one good performance last year. Adelaide have played Utah twice and had one good performances and one bad. Melbourne have had one good, one ok and one poor performance in their three games.
The reality is it just depends on the day. But when the NBA team is playing a lot harder than the NBL team like today it's never going to be close.
Ok, it's time to throw this NBL/NBA concept out the window now. Firstly, there is a clear talent and athleticism differential that is impossible to bridge. Secondly, we're playing on courts with court dimensions and rules that don't suit the way NBL teams are geared up to play. NBL players and teams are built to play FIBA basketball, and rules about defense in the key and rules against zones heavily disadvantage NBL teams when playing by NBA rules. So not only is there a talent divide, there are differences in the way the game is played over there that makes competing with an NBA team even more difficult. I doubt Jazz would beat the 36ers by 52 on an NBL court with NBL rules, where smaller players can cover more of the court, and where there is less space for the more athletic players to move freely, and where a zone defense could actually be effectively played. But what we have, regardless, is a 52 point loss that the world got to witness, most of which would be like "Oh, the NBL is the second best league in the world is it? HA!"
The NBL isn't the second best league in the world but it's a darn sight better than what the 36ers showed today. They were playing scared and tentative. They weren't throwing caution to the wind and just having a go at these guys. No one outside of the imports had the guts to make a move. Playing too conservatively. If the NBL thinks this is a positive promotion for the league, they're very wrong. All it does is force NBL teams to play against their strengths, to their weaknesses, on courts that don't suit them, with rules that don't suit them, and then have the best teams on planet earth pick them apart. There is nothing positive about doing this anymore. In fact, it almost borders on cruel to the teams and self destructive to the league.
"Anyone that knows basketball knows the NBL isn't close to the second best league in the world"
The Euroleague is, everyone knows that. In terms of after that, it's the ACB but the NBL isn't too far behind. Out of interest, if you're using pre-season games against NBA teams as a measure (which we are at the moment even though it doesn't mean a lot), NBL teams have performed similarly to European teams on American soil.
The efforts by Sydney and Perth to run the games close for long periods is up there with all but the best Euroleague teams' efforts, and Melbourne's performance against OKC was one of the best of all time. OKC's previous home game against a Euroleague team was a 30-point win.
There is a big gap between the ACB and the NBL and no one is using meaningless pre-season games to gauge global basketball rankings lol
Fran Fraschilla for ESPN ranked the world's best leagues outside the NBA in December 2017 and had the NBL 12th (13th overall).
The NBL is a bit low on that list for mine but it's obviously no where near second best.
Lets be realistic here, every single player on that Jazz team will be better than every single player on the 36ers. If there were better Adelaide players they'd be in the NBA not Adelaide. Given that discrepancy, you’re going to be smashed.
The things that can make it closer are 1) fitness (battle ready nbl team vs inherent physicality superiority of nba players), 2) shooting percentages (sometimes you’re hot sometimes you’re not), 3) effort plays: rebounds, effort defence, 4) chemistry (ready to go nbl team vs disjointed nba team which wouldn’t reflect nba regular season)
Euroleague teams are a step above NBL for now, have big bodies and pretty elite ball movement with lockdown grit D, they’ll be stronger against NBA teams but not necessarily reflect the style of the NBA as closely as NBL would. That’s important for practice.
It's hard to watch the NBL immediately after a thrashing like that. It's like it puts the league in perspective in the worst possible way. Missing 3 of their best players, and playing mostly their bench, a good NBA team is about 50 points better than you. It's quite a reality check. Why the NBL would choose to continue to highlight the differential by playing these games is beyond me. It was a fun novelty when it began, now it's just a stark reminder.
I agree with you ME. I hope the NBL look at these games and how much hype its generating in its 3rd year vs the way NBL teams just get out matched in every way, and see that maybe this concept has run its course.
The NBL is not gaining anything from this anymore, probably the opposite in fact.
We have an ok league but it's 20 years away from being even a top 5. About 2-3 quality Aussies come in each year atm, with soon to be a higher rate leaving due to retirement. Each new team, you need about 12 new Aussies and kiwis and try and find 3 quality imports. A new tassie team will be tough to build. We would need most of the guys in Europe and a few nba dropouts in the next couple of years to sustain the league as it is.
All high major college Aussie/kiwi prospects would need to go straight into nbl instead.
"There certainly isn't, while the top few power clubs are very good, most of that league is at NBL level."
This is part of it though. We can barely get more than a handful of functioning teams. The other leagues in the conversation for the top leagues in the world have more teams without consistently losing clubs and replacing them etc. If you're going to argue the NBL as being "up there with the best" you have to take the churn of teams into account.
Also, that we only have 9 teams means some of our teams can compete with top euro teams doesn't show we have as much talent, only that it is more concentrated.
I wish people would stop trying to pretend the NBL is a bigger deal worldwide than it is. It doesn't need to be. It just has to be the best league in Australia (and NZ), providing opportunities for local players and a good experience for Australian (and Kiwi) fans.
"told ya the nbl sucks and most of nbl players suck (except the imports, bogut and creek )"
It's all about context really. Do NBL players "suck". Well, compared to NBA players it appears anyone who isn't on an NBL starting 5 sucks pretty badly if we're being completely honest. But compared to anyone in this board, NBL players might as well be Lebron James.
When the gap closes between NBL and NBA players is in the rare positions where we have the height, length, speed or athleticism to counter them. For instance, Jerome Randle is not above most NBL import point guards, but he competed well with NBA players. In past years, Alex Pledger, who is not above NBL centers, actually competed well with NBA centers. Tai Wesley did also.
But NBL players who don't have any NBA level physical attribute do struggle.
Some people with vested interest probably just want to talk the league down, enjoy it for what it is, certainly in the top five leagues in the world, which is amazing when you consider the lack of main stream media and Australia's population size.
Certainly is a lot better than that nrl rubbish that was on tv yesterday.
"enjoy it for what it is"
Kinda my point. Why do you need to keep comparing it to other leagues. It doesn't need to be the second best league in the world. It doesn't need to be in the top 10. It needs to be entertaining for Australians while providing a career path for Aussie players.
Everything else is the style over substance that simply doesn't matter.
" Kinda my point. Why do you need to keep comparing it to other leagues. It doesn't need to be the second best league in the world. It doesn't need to be in the top 10 "
Because true boomers fans want Australia to be the best basketball nation in the world and win FIBA world cups and Olympics gold consistently.
"Kinda my point. Why do you need to keep comparing it to other leagues. It doesn't need to be the second best league in the world. It doesn't need to be in the top 10. It needs to be entertaining for Australians while providing a career path for Aussie players."
I completely disagree with this sentiment. If this were the case the league has no impetus to improve. The league could have stayed the way it was about 15 years ago, never change, reach only the lowest acceptable standard, and then that's enough. I don't buy that personally.
The league should strive to be one of the top leagues in the world. With our English speaking culture and way of life, we should endeavor to become the first and natural selection for top line imports. As for being a career path for Australians, I don't see the necessity of that being the key focus. I do some see distance consideration when it comes to nurturing talent and future Boomers, though, but that is only done by bringing the best imports and giving them the toughest possible competition.
I'd argue there are plenty of Australian players playing NBL who shouldn't be. And that them going about another line of work hurts absolutely no one. If I have to choose between Brendan Teys, a role player level import, or a young kid with potential, I'm choosing one of the latter two. I'd even argue that as the league grows the import rules need to be loosened even further.
The problem with allowing more imports is that it encourages the import merry-go-round. Fans should have a degree of stability in name recognition.
I'd hate to see half the players of teams disappear each season, replaced by players we've never heard before. As a fan of the league, it makes it difficult to know players well. As a fan of a single team, it's good to have players you strongly identify with your team. But I might be unusual on this because I grew up following a very stable Melbourne Tigers core through the 90s.
On name recognition, this is something that I see the NBL doing well when promoting upcoming games when they show a graphic of the most well known player or player they want to promote on that team to represent that team.
"Bogut, a role player in the nba did
become NBL mvp."
Gotta love statements like this that come with absolutely no context or understanding of situation. Andrew Bogut was a "role player" on one of the greatest teams of all time. He wasn't a role player on some scrub NBA team that didn't make the finals. There's a difference.
Plus Bogut's offensive abilities were barely needed in Golden State. The whole gameplan there is to get Steph Curry an open shot, and he was masterful at doing that. Steve Kerr - a man who knows infinitely more about basketball than you do - says Andrew Bogut is one of the greatest passing centers of all time.
And then when you see him need to score, he does. He did for the Boomers. He did in Milwaukee, and therefore, he was able to in Sydney. And then, when his offense is a bigger focus in Sydney than it was on a team with STEPH FUCKING CURRY AND KLAY FUCKING THOMPSON in it, yes... he got MVP. He also was All NBA Third Team and considered one of the best defensive centers in the NBA in his prime.
So yeah, "role player" tell us more you FUCKING IDIOT.
"Jonny* Flynn averaged 17/6/4. That's top 10 in two categories. Pretty crap for one of the worst NBA lottery picks ever."
Top 10 in two categories, in a time when the NBL had about 7 teams, when the NBL's salary cap was about half of what it was, and when there would have only been about 14 imports in the league.
Again, CONTEXT BUDDY. But yeah, let's compare the NBL of 8 years ago, to the NBL of now, when approximately a dozen or more imports and Aussies have come into the league since who have been far more credentialed in the NBA than he ever was.
"Former nba players are no longer in the nba because they have regressed, Any current nba player would dominate the nbl."
That's great. Make a statement that no one has any way of proving. Wonderful. Doesn't matter how any import plays now, because if they play well, it proves your point, and if they don't, you can't possibly disprove your point with it. Excellent.
Another thing as well is comparing NBL of Sam Young's day to now is completely unfair and the NBL is better than it was then. Who would have been defending Sam Young at times, Cam Tovey? Stephen Weigh? Both of those guys would struggle to hold down a contract today.
A fit Cam Tovey would still be a very good defender in the NBL, and he also wasn't in the league that season. That was a bad example.
The small forwards the season Young was here were Ennis, Abercrombie, Creek, Tiggs, Weigh, Blanchfield and Worthington. That's a pretty decent group of players.
",He also was All NBA Third Team and considered one of the best defensive centers in the NBA in his prime. "
Bogut was a good player a decade ago. Derrick Rose was Nba mvp a few years ago, but he is not even a top 50 nba player these day. Injuries have ruined their careers. They are simply not as good compared to their primes
It does not matter which nba team bogut plays for these day, Bogut would still be a role player. The warriors drafted him into the team because they were short of a centre and bogut knows their system very well.
You are suggesting an equivalence in the impact of injuries between a player that relied on and lost freakish athleticism with a 7-footer that relies on his high basketball IQ and high level defensive instincts? There is a reason why high IQ players tend to have longer careers. It seems that anything related to IQ might be a challenge for you to comprehend, if you are who we suspect you are.
" It seems that anything related to IQ might be a challenge for you to comprehend, if you are who we suspect you are."
+1. Dealing with a moron whose now gone and hidden their name so any inconsistency in anything they say can never be attributed to them.
"Because true boomers fans want Australia to be the best basketball nation in the world and win FIBA world cups and Olympics gold consistently."
As an Australian basketball fan, I want to watch Australian basketball players.
Australia can win medals without the NBL being the NBA G League. In fact, more opportunity for Australian players makes that even more realistic.
Our best players will always play in the NBA or Europe.
For fans who want to watch basketball, the NBL has two advantages over the NBA and Euroleague
1. It is accessible
2. It is OUR guys
Spending huge $ to bring in increasingly more American players at the expense of Aussie talent certainly hurts the second point.
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