Reality
Last week

Shut Up and Dribble

So it appears the NBA superstars are happy to just Shut Up and Dribble when they are in China or it effects there own self interest of the China money train.

Waiting for Lebrons take on this as its a major global social issue with a far larger impact than many of the other issues he is happy to tweet/talk about.

Topic #46036 | Report this topic


Isaac  
Last week

I take it he offered an opinion on something you don't favour, so now he's obliged to offer an opinion on everything you do favour?

Reply #766977 | Report this post


Uncle Bol  
Last week

A bit rich from you Isaac, you previously blocked one of my forum posts numerous times on the basis that you didn't think it was worthwhile

Reply #766982 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

All shoe brands all the nba clothing brands the basketballs every thing nba is made in China

Reply #766989 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

The topic about the time you saw Aleks Maric crossing the road?

Can you spell out the relevance here? This is a private forum with some level of moderation whereby I prune less-relevant posts as I see fit, often because there is legal risk (either from the post or those likely to come in reply) unique to my situation as the operator. As I told you then, there was more risk than upside, and as it played out there were comments in reply that could potentially antagonise people and invite the sort of legal emails I prefer to avoid because I don't have enough time to improve the forum let alone deal with lawyers.

This topic is about the expectation that anyone offering an opinion on a subject is obliged to then offer opinions on all other topics, as ranked in importance by OP. It didn't remind me of your Aleks Maric Experience, but rather the way people expect a Muslim commentator to denounce horrible behaviour after every terrorist attack.

Actually, maybe the relevance is that as a private operator, I can moderate when asked, when I have time, or when I think it appropriate. Just like LeBron can offer his opinion when he wants, when he thinks it relevant, when he thinks he's informed on an issue, or when it's Tuesday and there are tacos.

Reply #766991 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

Also waiting for LeBron's take on Brexit and Saudi Arabia too, I suppose?

Reply #766992 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Reality thinks Donald Sterling was hard done by.

Reply #767001 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I want to hear what LaBron thinks about the NBL

Reply #767002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Ok it's getting serious now the nba fan day in China has been cancelled

Reply #767008 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

#BlackLivesMatter, not Asian.

Reply #767009 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

^ dickhead.

Reply #767010 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

#causewaybooks

Reply #767011 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

Poe's Law!

Reply #767012 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Cheeky!

Reply #767013 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Me thinks Donald Stirling was robbed of 'freedom of speech' lmao

Reply #767014 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The point Isaac makes and most commentors on the web fail to accept is that the web is not some space of the people, for the people do use as they please. Most sites are run by private people or companies for profit or as in the case of hoops to cater for a market.
That said in every case the owner can do as they please.
FB Twitter etc are no different. You don't have the right to post anything you like under freedom of speech. They're spaces owned by a company who can do whatever they like to your post. As the NBA can. As Gaming companies can. And have.
Don't like it go create your own site or League and run it any way you want to.

Reply #767019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Only shout from the roof tops when it doesnt cost you money!
"Trump is bad he is nazi and he isnt for democracy" - nba player/coach
Hong Kong wants to be an independant democracy
“Sorry I don't know enough about it to comment”
Nba player/coach

Surely you see the issue here Isaac??
Get off your high horse oh righteous one.



Reply #767020 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Reply #767021 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

legal risk on a public forum with anon posters. lol get a grip

Reply #767022 | Report this post


proud  
Last week

Ok I'll use this forum how I feel OP wanted it (forgetting him singling out Lebron).

So could this mean that say a brand like Spalding could come out and say that they support Hong Kong and try and get their basketballs and apparel and other sporting equipment produced there?

Could Spalding try and get those items made in America?

I know that the cost to produce would increase exponentially but if the quality is still the same, if not better then a brand such as Spalding which is recognisable and has a solid reputation then surely they could handle it.

If Spalding are owned by Chinese then please swap Spalding for another brand that fits those type of attributes.

Reply #767026 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Go and post on Ozhoops if you dont like it here.

Reply #767028 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

'020, LeBron is American, not Chinese. You might see how that gives him a significant interest in commenting on one issue and not another.

I think it'd be great to see him say something but I don’t think he’s obliged to.


If anyone doesn’t think there is legal risk from anonymous comments, they’re an idiot. I have dozens of legal emails from instances over the years.

Reply #767031 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Spalding Basketballs' Distribution is through Channel B, which goes from the Manufacturer/Producer, to the Retailers, and then to the Consumers. Their distribution process begins in China, where the basketballs are manufactured.

Everything nba is made in China this could get ugly

Reply #767037 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

Crazy that someone would speak on something that directly affects them and people they know, rather than something on the other side of the world that they probably know about as much as or less than the average person.

Reply #767042 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

If he spoke on police shootings or about anything else domestic, it was never "he's alienating half the country and costing himself money, admirable", it was “stay in your lane”. But now it’s about money.

Reply #767043 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

Of course. Goal posts move, and the point remains for good folks like Reality that LeBron and his colleagues should just shut up and dribble so he can enjoy watching them on TV without feeling uncomfortable.

Reply #767047 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

Just an FYI

If someone does not support my view = they are wrong, should shut up and are un-[nationalityhere]

If someone does support my view = they are right and should be heard, everyone better respect freedom of speech

Reply #767048 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

& anyone who believes to the contrary is a bum.

Reply #767049 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Its more about the fact that many of these athlete state they need to use there platform to speak out against injustice to educate and bring light to a situation.

This would appear to be pretty cut and dry when an authoritarian regime is clearly trying to shut down free speech of a foreign entity/citizen and the evidence is clear they are shooting at people in the streets and lets not mention the Uyghur "education" camps.

The NBA players seemed happy to use there platform for the Trayvon Martin shooting and go hard at what they saw as an injustice well before the courts etc got involved and the players didn't stop to "educate" themseleves before speaking out, not forgetting the shooter was found not guilty on all charges

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket

Reply #767055 | Report this post


paul  
Last week

I would have thought everyone has the right to decide what issues they speak out on?

Reply #767057 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

Of course not. As Reality wisely articulates they should care as much about everything as they do the thing they personally relate to.

Reply #767058 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Its the key players who decided they wanted to be heard on social justice issues around systematic racism, free speech etc so bit hard to pick and choose when they want to say anything or it basically discredits when they speak up the next time.

Its not like this issue isn't now front and center of NBA life/discussion so to stay silent show what really matters or perhaps is just window dressing.




Reply #767059 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Wait, did Reality really just use Trayvon Martin as an example of how people should let the courts decide before speaking? The court findings were a greater injustice than the murder!

Reply #767062 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket
Do you seriously think that speaking out on domestic issues doesn't cost them fans, customers and money? Certainly cost Kaepernick. Honestly, think about your argument and why you're making it. It's been transparent from the first post.

Which other issues do they have to speak out on before you are completely satisfied? The plight of the Eastern Quoll?

Have you taken every stand available to you on every issue, regardless of whether or not it jeopardises your job? It's like those people that pull up someone for trying to minimise their environmental footprint because they used a straw thoughtlessly. It's inane behaviour.

LeBron is about as special a role model as they come in the sporting world. Give him a bit of credit. You pull up LBJ while James Harden said: "We apologize. You know, we love China. We love playing there..."

I've been to China a few times (months all up, going back to 1991), studied Chinese, and I wouldn't consider myself even remotely informed on China's domestic issues beyond headlines. Certainly not enough to speak up. I don't even know that I could pronounce Uyghur given that I've never heard it said out loud and they don't seem to be syllables I recognise from Mandarin. I'll willing to guess that LeBron didn't study Chinese, has seen less of the country, is busier than I am with less time for international news.

Reply #767065 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Can we just be clear that Reality is really criticising Black Lives Matter, because in his eyes they don't.

Reply #767067 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Think Harden should be copping a pasting for his comments too!

Harden sold his GM down the river for a few extra bucks

Reply #767068 | Report this post


paul  
Last week

People like #067 make civilised discussion very difficult. Reality is perfectly within his rights to bring up the point he did in the way he did without being labelled racist. I disagree with his point that once you speak up on certain matters you should speak on all equivalent matters, but it isn't an illogical or intolerant point of view.

Reply #767069 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

You think this is the first time Reality has waded into a debate on social issues?

Reply #767071 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

Not sure that anything I've stated is racist?

Happy to discuss the validity of my point of view thou.

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.

Also he made a strong point on the shop recently about discussing important social issues

Reference:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2019/10/07/lebron-james-china-hong-kong-controversy/3903187002/

Reply #767073 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Every time there is an controversy involving a person of colour, Reality jumps in to immediately side against them. Every time. And this is even before you dissect his poorly thought out arguments that he makes.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your rules of civilised discussion paul but I've seen enough of Reality over the years to know what he's about.

Reply #767074 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

I don't think Reality is a racist, I think KET is closer to the mark. He seems to have a lack of understanding or empathy of people in different situations than himself, or maybe like many similar-minded people I've spoken to seems to resent the notion that they have had some sort of advantage in life based on the colour of their skin, or maybe more accurately resent the fact that others who don't have that advantage might have achieved more than them despite of it.

Reply #767075 | Report this post


paul  
Last week

I think what KET posted in this thread was a pisstake on social commentary, rather than a personal view on the topic!

Reply #767077 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

I know, but still applies here (and every other social media platform...)

Reply #767078 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Wow this thread got ugly real fast. Foreign politics hay just ask Bogut what that's like. Ok now let’s get back to basketball

Reply #767079 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The plight of the Eastern Quoll? Now I'm concerned about the eastern quoll are they ok? And does China have anything to do with this?

Reply #767082 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Angus, you just described racism.

Reply #767083 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Isaac is the Steve Kerr of forum owners.

Reply #767086 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.
I went on part of an Australian basketball tour years back, just tagging along because my brother and I were doing some hikes after the tour wrapped up. Time was spent mostly in the hotels and stadium. In the hotel, the players played cards in the lounge or stayed in their rooms. The hotel put on a buffet where the players pretty much stuck to the pasta (left everything else for me, so no complaints about that). If players went for a walk outside, it was to buy pirated DVDs or whatever else.

I'm sure LeBron has more meet and greets arranged, but it would be a managed process and I don't know that he's exactly touring Lhasa and studying up on things his hosts don't promote.

Let's say he tours Australia, reads up on a few things, and wants to talk about rates of Aboriginal incarceration or something. Do you honestly think your reaction to that is going to be positive? "Great work LeBron, putting money aside to discuss important matters!" Ben Simmons is Australian and got told to go back to America for, in-part, making a fuss at a casino.

Reply #767087 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Harden's grovelling to the Chinese was so shameful. Doesn't really know how to address it so uses the word 'love' a number of times. Yeah, we know what you love.

Reply #767088 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Let's stop getting sidetracked about LeBron as we know he will stay silent. He's being used as a smokescreen on here to deflect from the real issue of the NBA's hypocrisy. The league decided to enter the social justice arena over the last few years and now it's backfired on them.

What's shocking is that the Rockets executives actually discussed sacking Morey for his tweet. Yes, you read that correctly.

Reply #767089 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hypocrisy, LOL, there are hypocrites everywhere, demonstrate in Hong Kong and you are a fantastic, demonstrate against climate change and they lock you up. Foreign policy world wide is nothing but hypocrisy.

Reply #767090 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"Ben Simmons is Australian and got told to go back to America for, in-part, making a fuss at a casino."

An incident in which Reality referred to Simmons as a half-caste... But he apparently isn't racist.

Reply #767091 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last week

@ anon 803; I'd say I described a reason why some people might be racist, not necessarily racism. It's not racism in itself and in different cultures the same concept applies to things outside of race - class/caste/what neighbourhood you live in/etc. Racism implies that someone feels one race is superior to another, and I don't think that's always the case with this line of thinking.

Reply #767096 | Report this post


Red84  
Last week

It is the CCP and pro China trolls that escalated this issue. Boycotts, flag burning, ritual outrage. All because the head of a NBA team expressed a personal opinion that ran contrary to Xie thought. The CCP thinks it has leverage and it is using it. It does this because it understands that sport and culture are entwined and that legitimacy requires validation from leading artists and sports people. You don't need a degree in Chinese studies to work out that this behaviour is straight from the dictators playbook. I would have respect for any NBA figure who publicly censured CCP about this, just as i applauded Jesse Owens for upstaging Hitler at the 36 Olympics.

Reply #767129 | Report this post


Reality  
Last week

@Red its clear the NBA players won't make a Jessie Owens like stand because they haven't used google or read a newspaper that has discussed the concentration camps (Opp re-education) millions of Uyghurs are currently confined within.

@Anon So saying the NBA players/officials should speak out against HK/Uyghurs makes me racist because I always side against people of color? The Uyghurs are an ethnic minority and majority Muslim so according to you I should be supporting the regime on this one.

Reply #767136 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Making a fuss at a casino?
Yeah calling out an immigrant security guard for racism sure was a fuss. Amazing Isaac

Reply #767137 | Report this post


Red84  
Last week

@Reality - Agree with your central point that sports celebrities are highly selective in the social/political causes they champion in public; with the cause seen to enhance their personal brand. There is no money in criticizing the CCP.
Appeasement pays.

Reply #767139 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

At least now with China and Chinese corporations pulling their support for the NBA we may get games in Australia to fill the void.

Get in there LK.

Reply #767146 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

Definitely a pisstake.

People, players may have their particular passions, it would be absurd to expect anyone to be actively and passionately fighting on every issue known to humanity. Lack of actively pushing a topic publicly doesnt endorse what goes on in the world either.

People might say there is a financial incentive not to speak out on particular issues which undermines those who speak out on one thing but can be so easily "bought". Cynical but very possible. I would hesitate to paint that brush broadly over people though.

Even if that were to be the case, how different would it be to us shmucks who pay for all the things like clothes or electronics tainted by very clear humanitarian violation?

I don't see an issue if someone speaks out on an issue that's "not in their lane", if there's humanitarian issues and people feel the passion to speak out then good on them. Where it gets awkward is if the person is part of a business who has significant interests in a particular nation and therefore would rather not rock the applecart. If a position is forced then they have to suck up the consequences for whichever position they take or nuance and rightly so, no awards for ducking your head in the sand out of convenience.

Reply #767152 | Report this post


Red84  
Last week

If you missed it, reported by Reuters:

ESPN faced fresh criticism of its coverage of a row between the National Basketball Association (NBA) and China after using a map that appeared to endorse the country's claims to both Taiwan, disputed territories in the South China Sea and Himilayan territories. ESPN, which has a multibillion-dollar content rights deal with the NBA, had already faced strong criticism online this week after a report that its anchors had been forbidden from talking about the political side of the row.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/espn-china-map-taiwan-no-comment.html

Reply #767178 | Report this post


Red84  
Last week

Last post - have a listen to the self rightous Stephen A Smith
https://deadspin.com/stephen-a-smith-pauses-between-bootlicks-to-tell-daryl-1838854121

Smith seems bothered, more than anything, by the possibility that the NBA or the Rockets might have lost some money because their GM tweeted what should have been seven innocuous words supporting Hong Kong protestors' desire to reform policing and not be subject to mainland China’s jurisdiction. In his mind, it’s the tweet, and not any of the reasons for or actions around the protest, that serves as a reason to take offense.

Reply #767180 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

I think the NBA are fair game for criticism on all this, enabling such over-the-top behaviour from China in their response to Morey alone, but I think it's unreasonable to expect players to ad-lib respond in the gauntlet between acting on something they've probably been oblivious to, without frustrating their clubs. Journalists trying to put players on the spot - it's a bit much. Curry gave a response about it being a serious issue needing further research which is about as much as he can probably do when put on the spot.

Reply #767188 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Reality, do you think the NBA players were wrong to speak out about the Trayvon Martin issue? If so, why?

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KET  
Last week

Agreed Isaac

Reply #767196 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last week

There's another aspect to this, potentially.

IFF China is recognised as a developed nation, and has to conduct trade and economics as a developed nation, it will become less profitable to manufacture in China. Then Spaulding etc might shift manufacturing to Vietnam, India or elsewhere. Such developments across industries might weaken China’s economic power, and reduce the risk for speaking up against China’s human rights record.


Reply #767208 | Report this post


Reality  
A few hours ago

@Anon the players spoke about the Trayvon Martin issue without proper research or allowing due process to be conducting however my argument is on this issue they want"time" to research and most likely hopefully never comment on it.

In the Martin case they were talking and utilising the "platform" to protect and push a narrative of events that once borne out in court proved to be false and the defendant was acquitted.

NBA players/officals have been happy to wade into issues before to push a narrative they think fits they issue but its clear this is only when it doesn't effect there money.

So the reasoning for not commenting on China is clear hypocrisy at its finest






Reply #767854 | Report this post




 

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