Reality
Last month

Shut Up and Dribble

So it appears the NBA superstars are happy to just Shut Up and Dribble when they are in China or it effects there own self interest of the China money train.

Waiting for Lebrons take on this as its a major global social issue with a far larger impact than many of the other issues he is happy to tweet/talk about.

Topic #46036 | Report this topic


Isaac  
Last month

I take it he offered an opinion on something you don't favour, so now he's obliged to offer an opinion on everything you do favour?

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Uncle Bol  
Last month

A bit rich from you Isaac, you previously blocked one of my forum posts numerous times on the basis that you didn't think it was worthwhile

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Anonymous  
Last month

All shoe brands all the nba clothing brands the basketballs every thing nba is made in China

Reply #766989 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

The topic about the time you saw Aleks Maric crossing the road?

Can you spell out the relevance here? This is a private forum with some level of moderation whereby I prune less-relevant posts as I see fit, often because there is legal risk (either from the post or those likely to come in reply) unique to my situation as the operator. As I told you then, there was more risk than upside, and as it played out there were comments in reply that could potentially antagonise people and invite the sort of legal emails I prefer to avoid because I don't have enough time to improve the forum let alone deal with lawyers.

This topic is about the expectation that anyone offering an opinion on a subject is obliged to then offer opinions on all other topics, as ranked in importance by OP. It didn't remind me of your Aleks Maric Experience, but rather the way people expect a Muslim commentator to denounce horrible behaviour after every terrorist attack.

Actually, maybe the relevance is that as a private operator, I can moderate when asked, when I have time, or when I think it appropriate. Just like LeBron can offer his opinion when he wants, when he thinks it relevant, when he thinks he's informed on an issue, or when it's Tuesday and there are tacos.

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AngusH  
Last month

Also waiting for LeBron's take on Brexit and Saudi Arabia too, I suppose?

Reply #766992 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Reality thinks Donald Sterling was hard done by.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I want to hear what LaBron thinks about the NBL

Reply #767002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Ok it's getting serious now the nba fan day in China has been cancelled

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Perthworld  
Last month

#BlackLivesMatter, not Asian.

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Anonymous  
Last month

^ dickhead.

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Perthworld  
Last month

#causewaybooks

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Isaac  
Last month

Poe's Law!

Reply #767012 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Cheeky!

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Anonymous  
Last month

Me thinks Donald Stirling was robbed of 'freedom of speech' lmao

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Anonymous  
Last month

The point Isaac makes and most commentors on the web fail to accept is that the web is not some space of the people, for the people do use as they please. Most sites are run by private people or companies for profit or as in the case of hoops to cater for a market.
That said in every case the owner can do as they please.
FB Twitter etc are no different. You don't have the right to post anything you like under freedom of speech. They're spaces owned by a company who can do whatever they like to your post. As the NBA can. As Gaming companies can. And have.
Don't like it go create your own site or League and run it any way you want to.

Reply #767019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Only shout from the roof tops when it doesnt cost you money!
"Trump is bad he is nazi and he isnt for democracy" - nba player/coach
Hong Kong wants to be an independant democracy
“Sorry I don't know enough about it to comment”
Nba player/coach

Surely you see the issue here Isaac??
Get off your high horse oh righteous one.



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Perthworld  
Last month

Reply #767021 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

legal risk on a public forum with anon posters. lol get a grip

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proud  
Last month

Ok I'll use this forum how I feel OP wanted it (forgetting him singling out Lebron).

So could this mean that say a brand like Spalding could come out and say that they support Hong Kong and try and get their basketballs and apparel and other sporting equipment produced there?

Could Spalding try and get those items made in America?

I know that the cost to produce would increase exponentially but if the quality is still the same, if not better then a brand such as Spalding which is recognisable and has a solid reputation then surely they could handle it.

If Spalding are owned by Chinese then please swap Spalding for another brand that fits those type of attributes.

Reply #767026 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Go and post on Ozhoops if you dont like it here.

Reply #767028 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

'020, LeBron is American, not Chinese. You might see how that gives him a significant interest in commenting on one issue and not another.

I think it'd be great to see him say something but I don’t think he’s obliged to.


If anyone doesn’t think there is legal risk from anonymous comments, they’re an idiot. I have dozens of legal emails from instances over the years.

Reply #767031 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Spalding Basketballs' Distribution is through Channel B, which goes from the Manufacturer/Producer, to the Retailers, and then to the Consumers. Their distribution process begins in China, where the basketballs are manufactured.

Everything nba is made in China this could get ugly

Reply #767037 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Crazy that someone would speak on something that directly affects them and people they know, rather than something on the other side of the world that they probably know about as much as or less than the average person.

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Isaac  
Last month

If he spoke on police shootings or about anything else domestic, it was never "he's alienating half the country and costing himself money, admirable", it was “stay in your lane”. But now it’s about money.

Reply #767043 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Of course. Goal posts move, and the point remains for good folks like Reality that LeBron and his colleagues should just shut up and dribble so he can enjoy watching them on TV without feeling uncomfortable.

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KET  
Last month

Just an FYI

If someone does not support my view = they are wrong, should shut up and are un-[nationalityhere]

If someone does support my view = they are right and should be heard, everyone better respect freedom of speech

Reply #767048 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

& anyone who believes to the contrary is a bum.

Reply #767049 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Its more about the fact that many of these athlete state they need to use there platform to speak out against injustice to educate and bring light to a situation.

This would appear to be pretty cut and dry when an authoritarian regime is clearly trying to shut down free speech of a foreign entity/citizen and the evidence is clear they are shooting at people in the streets and lets not mention the Uyghur "education" camps.

The NBA players seemed happy to use there platform for the Trayvon Martin shooting and go hard at what they saw as an injustice well before the courts etc got involved and the players didn't stop to "educate" themseleves before speaking out, not forgetting the shooter was found not guilty on all charges

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket

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paul  
Last month

I would have thought everyone has the right to decide what issues they speak out on?

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AngusH  
Last month

Of course not. As Reality wisely articulates they should care as much about everything as they do the thing they personally relate to.

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Reality  
Last month

Its the key players who decided they wanted to be heard on social justice issues around systematic racism, free speech etc so bit hard to pick and choose when they want to say anything or it basically discredits when they speak up the next time.

Its not like this issue isn't now front and center of NBA life/discussion so to stay silent show what really matters or perhaps is just window dressing.




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Anonymous  
Last month

Wait, did Reality really just use Trayvon Martin as an example of how people should let the courts decide before speaking? The court findings were a greater injustice than the murder!

Reply #767062 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

So in context its clear the NBA players only speak out when it doesn't effect the hip pocket
Do you seriously think that speaking out on domestic issues doesn't cost them fans, customers and money? Certainly cost Kaepernick. Honestly, think about your argument and why you're making it. It's been transparent from the first post.

Which other issues do they have to speak out on before you are completely satisfied? The plight of the Eastern Quoll?

Have you taken every stand available to you on every issue, regardless of whether or not it jeopardises your job? It's like those people that pull up someone for trying to minimise their environmental footprint because they used a straw thoughtlessly. It's inane behaviour.

LeBron is about as special a role model as they come in the sporting world. Give him a bit of credit. You pull up LBJ while James Harden said: "We apologize. You know, we love China. We love playing there..."

I've been to China a few times (months all up, going back to 1991), studied Chinese, and I wouldn't consider myself even remotely informed on China's domestic issues beyond headlines. Certainly not enough to speak up. I don't even know that I could pronounce Uyghur given that I've never heard it said out loud and they don't seem to be syllables I recognise from Mandarin. I'll willing to guess that LeBron didn't study Chinese, has seen less of the country, is busier than I am with less time for international news.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Can we just be clear that Reality is really criticising Black Lives Matter, because in his eyes they don't.

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Reality  
Last month

Think Harden should be copping a pasting for his comments too!

Harden sold his GM down the river for a few extra bucks

Reply #767068 | Report this post


paul  
Last month

People like #067 make civilised discussion very difficult. Reality is perfectly within his rights to bring up the point he did in the way he did without being labelled racist. I disagree with his point that once you speak up on certain matters you should speak on all equivalent matters, but it isn't an illogical or intolerant point of view.

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Anonymous  
Last month

You think this is the first time Reality has waded into a debate on social issues?

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Reality  
Last month

Not sure that anything I've stated is racist?

Happy to discuss the validity of my point of view thou.

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.

Also he made a strong point on the shop recently about discussing important social issues

Reference:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2019/10/07/lebron-james-china-hong-kong-controversy/3903187002/

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Anonymous  
Last month

Every time there is an controversy involving a person of colour, Reality jumps in to immediately side against them. Every time. And this is even before you dissect his poorly thought out arguments that he makes.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your rules of civilised discussion paul but I've seen enough of Reality over the years to know what he's about.

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AngusH  
Last month

I don't think Reality is a racist, I think KET is closer to the mark. He seems to have a lack of understanding or empathy of people in different situations than himself, or maybe like many similar-minded people I've spoken to seems to resent the notion that they have had some sort of advantage in life based on the colour of their skin, or maybe more accurately resent the fact that others who don't have that advantage might have achieved more than them despite of it.

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paul  
Last month

I think what KET posted in this thread was a pisstake on social commentary, rather than a personal view on the topic!

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AngusH  
Last month

I know, but still applies here (and every other social media platform...)

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Anonymous  
Last month

Wow this thread got ugly real fast. Foreign politics hay just ask Bogut what that's like. Ok now let’s get back to basketball

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Anonymous  
Last month

The plight of the Eastern Quoll? Now I'm concerned about the eastern quoll are they ok? And does China have anything to do with this?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Angus, you just described racism.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Isaac is the Steve Kerr of forum owners.

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Isaac  
Last month

@Issac Lebrons has made at least 12 recent trips to China so pretty sure he might/should have a bit of an idea about the place.
I went on part of an Australian basketball tour years back, just tagging along because my brother and I were doing some hikes after the tour wrapped up. Time was spent mostly in the hotels and stadium. In the hotel, the players played cards in the lounge or stayed in their rooms. The hotel put on a buffet where the players pretty much stuck to the pasta (left everything else for me, so no complaints about that). If players went for a walk outside, it was to buy pirated DVDs or whatever else.

I'm sure LeBron has more meet and greets arranged, but it would be a managed process and I don't know that he's exactly touring Lhasa and studying up on things his hosts don't promote.

Let's say he tours Australia, reads up on a few things, and wants to talk about rates of Aboriginal incarceration or something. Do you honestly think your reaction to that is going to be positive? "Great work LeBron, putting money aside to discuss important matters!" Ben Simmons is Australian and got told to go back to America for, in-part, making a fuss at a casino.

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Perthworld  
Last month

Harden's grovelling to the Chinese was so shameful. Doesn't really know how to address it so uses the word 'love' a number of times. Yeah, we know what you love.

Reply #767088 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Let's stop getting sidetracked about LeBron as we know he will stay silent. He's being used as a smokescreen on here to deflect from the real issue of the NBA's hypocrisy. The league decided to enter the social justice arena over the last few years and now it's backfired on them.

What's shocking is that the Rockets executives actually discussed sacking Morey for his tweet. Yes, you read that correctly.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Hypocrisy, LOL, there are hypocrites everywhere, demonstrate in Hong Kong and you are a fantastic, demonstrate against climate change and they lock you up. Foreign policy world wide is nothing but hypocrisy.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"Ben Simmons is Australian and got told to go back to America for, in-part, making a fuss at a casino."

An incident in which Reality referred to Simmons as a half-caste... But he apparently isn't racist.

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AngusH  
Last month

@ anon 803; I'd say I described a reason why some people might be racist, not necessarily racism. It's not racism in itself and in different cultures the same concept applies to things outside of race - class/caste/what neighbourhood you live in/etc. Racism implies that someone feels one race is superior to another, and I don't think that's always the case with this line of thinking.

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Red84  
Last month

It is the CCP and pro China trolls that escalated this issue. Boycotts, flag burning, ritual outrage. All because the head of a NBA team expressed a personal opinion that ran contrary to Xie thought. The CCP thinks it has leverage and it is using it. It does this because it understands that sport and culture are entwined and that legitimacy requires validation from leading artists and sports people. You don't need a degree in Chinese studies to work out that this behaviour is straight from the dictators playbook. I would have respect for any NBA figure who publicly censured CCP about this, just as i applauded Jesse Owens for upstaging Hitler at the 36 Olympics.

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Reality  
Last month

@Red its clear the NBA players won't make a Jessie Owens like stand because they haven't used google or read a newspaper that has discussed the concentration camps (Opp re-education) millions of Uyghurs are currently confined within.

@Anon So saying the NBA players/officials should speak out against HK/Uyghurs makes me racist because I always side against people of color? The Uyghurs are an ethnic minority and majority Muslim so according to you I should be supporting the regime on this one.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Making a fuss at a casino?
Yeah calling out an immigrant security guard for racism sure was a fuss. Amazing Isaac

Reply #767137 | Report this post


Red84  
Last month

@Reality - Agree with your central point that sports celebrities are highly selective in the social/political causes they champion in public; with the cause seen to enhance their personal brand. There is no money in criticizing the CCP.
Appeasement pays.

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Perthworld  
Last month

At least now with China and Chinese corporations pulling their support for the NBA we may get games in Australia to fill the void.

Get in there LK.

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KET  
Last month

Definitely a pisstake.

People, players may have their particular passions, it would be absurd to expect anyone to be actively and passionately fighting on every issue known to humanity. Lack of actively pushing a topic publicly doesnt endorse what goes on in the world either.

People might say there is a financial incentive not to speak out on particular issues which undermines those who speak out on one thing but can be so easily "bought". Cynical but very possible. I would hesitate to paint that brush broadly over people though.

Even if that were to be the case, how different would it be to us shmucks who pay for all the things like clothes or electronics tainted by very clear humanitarian violation?

I don't see an issue if someone speaks out on an issue that's "not in their lane", if there's humanitarian issues and people feel the passion to speak out then good on them. Where it gets awkward is if the person is part of a business who has significant interests in a particular nation and therefore would rather not rock the applecart. If a position is forced then they have to suck up the consequences for whichever position they take or nuance and rightly so, no awards for ducking your head in the sand out of convenience.

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Red84  
Last month

If you missed it, reported by Reuters:

ESPN faced fresh criticism of its coverage of a row between the National Basketball Association (NBA) and China after using a map that appeared to endorse the country's claims to both Taiwan, disputed territories in the South China Sea and Himilayan territories. ESPN, which has a multibillion-dollar content rights deal with the NBA, had already faced strong criticism online this week after a report that its anchors had been forbidden from talking about the political side of the row.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/espn-china-map-taiwan-no-comment.html

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Red84  
Last month

Last post - have a listen to the self rightous Stephen A Smith
https://deadspin.com/stephen-a-smith-pauses-between-bootlicks-to-tell-daryl-1838854121

Smith seems bothered, more than anything, by the possibility that the NBA or the Rockets might have lost some money because their GM tweeted what should have been seven innocuous words supporting Hong Kong protestors' desire to reform policing and not be subject to mainland China’s jurisdiction. In his mind, it’s the tweet, and not any of the reasons for or actions around the protest, that serves as a reason to take offense.

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Isaac  
Last month

I think the NBA are fair game for criticism on all this, enabling such over-the-top behaviour from China in their response to Morey alone, but I think it's unreasonable to expect players to ad-lib respond in the gauntlet between acting on something they've probably been oblivious to, without frustrating their clubs. Journalists trying to put players on the spot - it's a bit much. Curry gave a response about it being a serious issue needing further research which is about as much as he can probably do when put on the spot.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Reality, do you think the NBA players were wrong to speak out about the Trayvon Martin issue? If so, why?

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KET  
Last month

Agreed Isaac

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UseTaHoop  
Last month

There's another aspect to this, potentially.

IFF China is recognised as a developed nation, and has to conduct trade and economics as a developed nation, it will become less profitable to manufacture in China. Then Spaulding etc might shift manufacturing to Vietnam, India or elsewhere. Such developments across industries might weaken China’s economic power, and reduce the risk for speaking up against China’s human rights record.


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Reality  
Last month

@Anon the players spoke about the Trayvon Martin issue without proper research or allowing due process to be conducting however my argument is on this issue they want"time" to research and most likely hopefully never comment on it.

In the Martin case they were talking and utilising the "platform" to protect and push a narrative of events that once borne out in court proved to be false and the defendant was acquitted.

NBA players/officals have been happy to wade into issues before to push a narrative they think fits they issue but its clear this is only when it doesn't effect there money.

So the reasoning for not commenting on China is clear hypocrisy at its finest






Reply #767854 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

And here's LeBron and the warm teat?

"I believe he was misinformed and not educated on the situation," LeBron James said on the Morey tweet. LeBron added Morey's tweet was dangerous. LeBron said he is uncertain about the future ramifications of the Morey tweet with the NBA and players.

More from LeBron:
Let me clear up the confusion. I do not believe there was any consideration for the consequences and ramifications of the tweet. I’m not discussing the substance. Others can talk About that.


My team and this league just went through a difficult week. I think people need to understand what a tweet or statement can do to others.
Is he talking about well-paid athletes copping some scrutiny on a tour? And suggesting Morey should've waited a week rather than disrupt pre-season games?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Reality, can you be more specific about what the proper research was, or what events were proved false in court? Because my understanding of the issue is not that anyone was disputing facts, it's that all the facts were laid bare but a court still found the killer to be not guilty.

Reply #768124 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Is he talking about well-paid athletes copping some scrutiny on a tour? And suggesting Morey should've waited a week rather than disrupt pre-season games?
Seems like it. Now would be a much better time to have started this thread.

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KET  
Last month

I think while he was trying to have his take in the media arena with a neutralised "There's a place and time" instead he flags a position by talking and not condemning, and then doubles down by criticising Morey calling him uneducated.

You’re a dumb boy LeBron! That was a bad tweet by any measure.

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AngusH  
Last month

I actually agree that Morey should've waited until the preseason games were over. It's probably unlikely given the profile of the players involved, but especially with how things are between the US and China at the moment there is a slim chance it could have had serious repercussions for the players and teams in the country.

Reply #768140 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

Couple of other perspectives spotted online:

Kasparov:

I spent most of my life fighting at the chessboard & against dictatorship at the same time. It's not for everyone, and I don't like to pressure athletes for boycotts, etc. But if you openly side with authoritarians, you abandon the pretense of innocence & neutrality.
Kanter:
-Haven't seen or talked to my family 5 years
-Jailed my dad
-My siblings can’t find jobs
-Revoked my passport
-International arrest warrant
-My family can’t leave the country
-Got Death Threats everyday
-Got attacked, harassed
-Tried to kidnap me in Indonesia

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE


KET, "There's a place and time" is a bit "stop trying to politicise tragedy" though.

AngusH: "Morey should've waited until the preseason games were over." Outside of the safety element, there's an argument that now was a great time and made the response more visible. That said, I don't know that Morey specifically thought it through and planned the timing. Suspect he just underestimated the response.

I imagine the entire thing conflating Hong Kong with other issues is seriously muddying the waters.

Another bit:
According to ESPN's Dave McMenamin, LeBron James spoke up in the meeting with Adam Silver in China and suggested that there would be "league recourse" had a player tweeted the same thing

Reply #768232 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

LeBron seems to be going over the talking points Nike/China have given him.

The Morey being uneducated thing seems a bit of a cheap shot considering Morey's background this is an extremely bad misstep from Lebrons which is most unlike him and his PR team.

LeBron has now effectively shown his hand and that hand is squarely in China's pocket chasing his cash!


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AngusH  
Last month

To me this still boils down to a bunch of folks who don't give two shits about Hong Kong or any of the (numerous) human rights issues taking place in China's borders using this to attack LeBron's stance on human rights issues in his own country - human rights issues that directly impact him. LeBron's comment was dumb regardless of what he meant and a "no comment" would have been a better option, but at the end of the day he probably knows less than we do about any of it. There's a reason why China has had such a strong economy, and it's not because of people and organisations refusal to do business with China for ethical reasons.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Reality, what activism are you taking part in to help the people of Hong Kong?

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Anonymous  
Last month

"Certainly cost Kaepernick. "

I don't believe so. He's got an endorsement deal from Nike out of it and is popular on the public speaking circuit.

People want to have you believe that he can't get a football job because of his kneeling, but the facts are he was a poorly performing quarterback on one of the worst teams in the NFL at the time.

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AngusH  
Last month

Oh yeah, I'm sure all that public speaking circuit work makes up for the lack of his NFL QB salary. He definitely made the decision based on future earnings :eyeroll:

His final season he had 16 TDs and 4 INTs. I'd wager he's still better today than half the QBs in the league, at least.

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Anonymous  
Last month

He was actually a middle of the road QB statically, and hasn't got a look in since his last playing stint. Don't try and pretend he hasn't been blackballed by the league.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I think people here are being somewhat ignorant to this all. Players have and will continue to speak up about issues which make them money. It's pretty simple.

Very few. Like Kapernick perhaps and before him Mohammed Abdoul Rauf might have genuinely negative impacts on their careers. Which could be seen to be truely speaking up despite the consequences but you have to wonder if they really could have expected the backlash they received.

If you want to be truely sceptical, about all this speaking up, why hasn’t any player commented on the ethnic cleansing which is occurring to Kurds in Syria caused by the US government pull out, or the Assad regime using chemical weapons on their citizens.

Simply because their sponsors and brands haven’t seen any potential monetary benefit.

Don’t believe these twitter accounts are just a players random thoughts. Their agency’s have people working full time, looking for profit points for responses that clearly Daryl Morey doesn’t have.

Reply #768245 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Wait, you're saying that players only speak up to make money? We've gone from "they don't want to cost themselves money" to "they only look to profit from social issues"...

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Anonymous  
Last month

Some "social issues" are more profitable than others.

Reply #768247 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So which ones has someone like LeBron profited from?

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Anonymous  
Last month

I mean, is it not possible that some NBA players chose to speak out about a number of social issues (like the treatment of young black males in the hands of the justice system) because that is something that is close to home for them?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Yes. You don't think that NBA players have seen what Kylie Jenner has done as a media influencer and how much money she has made? You don’t think clutch sports haven’t leveraged all the positive publicity that LeBron creates and won recruiting battles over players like AD? You don’t think that sponsors are throwing themselves at certain players like Harden because of his connection and positive relationships with China and their markets?

Please don’t be foolish enough to believe that making a difference is the only important thing.

I’m not saying that they are wrong in any stretch in doing so.

Governments and newspapers etc are doing the same thing for money and power.

Yes, LeBron setting up a school is great and shows he has positive attributes. But he didn’t need media attention to do that. He is smart enough and has the right people around him to say that they can get enough investors to make money out of it through business deals etc. Whilst leveraging that into more. And good for him.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"You don't think that NBA players have seen what Kylie Jenner has done as a media influencer and how much money she has made?"

What social issues has she been vocal about? You're conflating a few things here.

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AngusH  
Last month

Jesus. Comparing Black Americans speaking up on social issues affecting Black Americans to Kylie Jenner, an incredibly rich socialite who as far as I'm aware hasn't spoken a word about anything worth a damn.

Reply #768263 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Conflating in what way?

They are both using social media to create revenue which otherwise wouldn't be available.

Reply #768265 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No, you're conflating someone using social media to talk about issues with someone using social media to promote lipstick.

How is speaking out about BLM (for example) creating revenue? No one is paying Lebron to be a brand ambassador for a social movement.

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Reality  
Last month

The players are effectively profiting from a communist regime that is currently operating concentration camps and organ harvesting which should be discussed before we even get to the HK issues.

Could you imagine NBA players taking money from Hilter's Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia because that’s the closet comparison to this regime.

Reply #768268 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The entire league is, Reality. The NBA has massive ties to China. Instead of singling out individuals, maybe you should criticise the league or perhaps even boycott it.

Can we get back to Trayvon Martin? Because thats what this issue is really about for you. You were uncomfortable with the players speaingk out about that, so you are going way over the top in your criticism here. Refer to the question I asked yesterday;

Reality, can you be more specific about what the proper research was, or what events were proved false in court? Because my understanding of the issue is not that anyone was disputing facts, it's that all the facts were laid bare but a court still found the killer to be not guilty.

Reply #768269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The players themselves are the brand. They get sponsors in exactly the same manner that Kylie Jenner does. And she is the brand.

She doesn't make money just form her lipstick brand. She would be the youngest billionaire if that’s all she did.

Reply #768274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And you don't think they would be damaging their brand by speaking out against racial issues? How many idiots burnt their Nikes and threw coffee machines out the window because those companies sided with an outspoken athlete.

Reply #768275 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"The entire league is, Reality. The NBA has massive ties to China. Instead of singling out individuals, maybe you should criticise the league or perhaps even boycott it."

Should probably point out both. They part of the same pie who have been shown up to prefer Chinese money to HK human rights. I have no problem with NBA folks saying nothing, but criticising Morey sheds them in a poor light.

Reply #768280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

But Reality specifically singled out the players for taking money, while being outraged at human rights issues. Why isn't he boycotting the entire league?

Reply #768281 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

To much ignorance in this thread, have any looked the human rights issues the west have done, weapons of mass destruction ring a bell. In a nut shell Hong Kong is part China, Britain and China worked out deal, and then it would revert back to China, its there country. For f..ks sake Britain attacked the Faulklands island off the coast off Argentina because they said it was there's, even though it was part of Argentina at one stage.

Re the nba off course they want to look after there business interests, like any other company or individuals. Morey and others should look at history before they open their mouths or Twitter or what ever is the latest these days.

Reply #768283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

How did this topic get to Kylie Jenner?
It's a sad day when people put stock into famous peoples opinions. Free Tibet then after that free Hong Kong and then a heap of other places need freeing

Reply #768285 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Agree that the whole NBA is taking the China money and its a good laugh about "NBA Cares" but only if it doesn't hurt my cash!

This is the perfect example of how being the "woke" league back fires.

But hey apparently Trump is a bum who we shouldn't visit but hey China they cool just don't mention Tibet, Uyghurs, HK.......

FYI - No stress if they don't go to White house but we can only assume that if Trump was writing there cheques they'd be at his beckon call as they are to China.

Reply #768287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"But hey apparently Trump is a bum who we shouldn't visit"

Once again, you're really showing what your issue is. Its not that they didn't speak out against China - its that they have previously spoken out about issues that you disagree with eg BLM, Trump being a bum.

Reply #768289 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"FYI - No stress if they don't go to White house but we can only assume that if Trump was writing there cheques they'd be at his beckon call as they are to China."

Tell that to the Clippers. They protested the man who literally wrote their cheques. Do you have a problem with that too?

Reply #768291 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

The clippers had guaranteed money regardless of who who wrote the cheques sterling or the next owner.

Its different with China as those dudes nothing is guaranteed regardless of whats on the contract you simply don't get paid.

Reply #768293 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

In the end the players are shutting up and dribbling so hopefully the NBA can become more like the NFL and focus on the game rather than everything else around it.


Reply #768294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"The clippers had guaranteed money regardless of who who wrote the cheques sterling or the next owner."

What? You said the players would bend over for Trump is he was writing their cheques. I said no, because the Clippers players protested the guy writing their cheques (figuratively speaking). So no, they aren't at the beck and call of whoever writes the cheques.

Reply #768296 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

Trump was the guy who supposedly told China he wouldn't apply pressure over Hong Kong to ease through a trade deal. It's all money.

Reply #768298 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

hopefully the NBA can become more like the NFL
Well there's a sentence I never thought I'd see.

Reply #768299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why is Reality not criticising Trump for destabilising the Syrian border and leaving their Kurdish allies to die, all to appease another dictator and line his own pockets? I haven't seen Reality take a position on that issue, therefore he is not entitled to an opinion on anything else.

Reply #768300 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

This China stuff is the same logic being used against everybody protesting anything that people don't agree with. "Oh, you say you don't like issue X, but what about issues Y & Z also you hypocrite!". Fact is that everyone has issues that take priority for them - and with black Americans to me it's self-explanatory why the whole BLM thing would be at the forefront. These basketballers on the whole probably care as much about what's happening in China as Reality does - ie. sweet fuck all. I don't imagine Reality is out there boycotting China-made anything. Anon #289 is on the money. It's a dishonest argument.

Reply #768301 | Report this post


rjd  
Last month

"To much ignorance in this thread, ..."

And then proceeds to deliver a sermon of whataboutism.

"its that they have previously spoken out about issues that you disagree with eg BLM, Trump being a bum."

No, it's that people like LBJ are all for justice until it affects their wallet. Principles of free speech should be upheld, not silenced because of sensitive responses from totalitarian regimes.

Let's also dispel the myth of China being communist. It's not. It's not even close to being socialist. It has evolved into totalitarian capitalist, retaining some of the worst aspect of communism (absolute state control, rife corruption, etc) while losing all of the equality/egalitarianism ideals. China is more capitalist in spirit and in practice than USA. The cultural lack of moral concern for non-family, combined with a lack of social regulations, leads to an unrestrained extreme capitalism. It's not an exaggeration to say that 'all for oneself/family' is the guiding principle within the culture, usually manifesting as money for oneself/family. The State benefits from using this capitalist spirit while holding a firm grasp over it. Many businesses require partial state ownership to operate. Upper level government workers are literally leeches, using their power/authority to demand regular payments for businesses to operate, to get official documents on time, to get approval for imports/exports etc. For example, you might get a visit from the fire inspector informing you of [an always changing] fire code which forces the business to pay them off instead of going to the great expense to comply. It is common for people applying for even benign government positions, such as teachers or nurses in government workplaces, to need to pay the head of that workplace to get the job, often multiple times a yearly salary, just because it leads to a stable job. To become CCP/police/other authorities, it's based on networks and payoffs. It becomes open, extreme cronyism.

The culture openly accepts this exploitation of power. So when China tries to manipulate the NBA to comply with their demands of political silence, this is a normal, acceptable response. Because in China, it's typical to do anything -- just anything -- to get what you want.

Reply #768310 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"No, it's that people like LBJ are all for justice until it affects their wallet."

Yes, we've established he's a hypocrite. But its quite clear why Reality is going on the attack so much - he doesn't agree with NBA players stances on certain social issues.

Reply #768311 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

Isaac

"Trump was the guy who supposedly told China he wouldn't apply pressure over Hong Kong to ease through a trade deal. It's all money."

I hadn't come across that. Twitter?

Trump does care about money for America. He wants China to not trade as a “developing nation”, but as a “developed nation”. That change would take away some of China’s advantages in trade, production etc. His position on Syria is just as easily explained: he doesn’t want to take responsibility for leading the world, just finding trade and financial advantages for America. No money to be made in Syria.

Ultimately, Trump is an aggressive isolationist. Aggressive isolationist (Aggressive Twitter threats etc). Isolationist in that he has no interest in real diplomatic or military interventions, unless there are financial incentives for him or his country’s perceived interests.

Reply #768315 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

China have played the long game on all these issues and snookered the west as they now control the supply chain and cheap labor market.

In effect we are all pretty complicit in allowing China to behave the way it does by buying products & allowing our elected officials to effectively work in the long term best interests of China for short term local gains.

I support the NBA players having a voice but that voice has scarified local viewership so I guess the trade off is staying silent on China and taking money from dictators, regimes and mass murderers because they like money more than Asian people.

Reply #768352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

But you were against them speaking out against Trump and Trayvon Martin's death...

Reply #768357 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

https://www.facebook.com/theScore/videos/416901652355578/

Reply #768366 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

@Anon I had no problem if they spoke out but don't be a hypocrite about it when it effects the bottom line.

Do you think NIKE etc aren't using the players like pawns in are larger geopolitical game on behalf of china?

Trump goes at China in trade negotiations, NBA players and apparel companies support anti trump messages and attempt to cause social unrest with protesting etc about "social issues" at the behest of these corporate sponsors who take clear direct from China and its propaganda arm.

Its clear as day this is happening so either stand for freedom and justice or don't but you can't play both sides when it suits your pocketbook.


Reply #768368 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

You can do both. Yes, it makes him somewhat hypocritical but it doesn't lessen the point he made about other social issues spoken about in the past.

Still waiting for your specifics about Trayvon Martin...you were the ones that highlighted that as an example of speaking out when they shouldn't.

Reply #768373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Reality,

Everyone plays both sides when it suits them.

Reply #768376 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

They spoke out on the Martin case without the full facts being borne out in a court of law or any real reporting or investigation of the incident, hence my thoughts on the poor excuses they gave for not knowing enough about China's human abuses so hence not commenting.

In that case the NBA players protesting and the publicity/comments from the players as public figures could have perverted the course of justice.

The players went really hard at it without knowing any facts about the case which once borne out in court clearly showed the person who shot Martin was acting in self defense.

The players tweeted, protested and incited public rallies but in the end Martin attacked the accused and hence was found no guilty due to self defense at a trial of his peers.








Reply #768391 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The self defence, or Stand Your Ground law, is the injustice in the case. I don't know how anyone could think they have the right to profile a person, follow them with a weapon, then shoot them dead when they are the ones who caused the confrontation in the first place, but thats America for you, and these sorts of things are the issues that black American athletes use their voice to speak out against.

As you seem to have strong opinions on Chinese human rights issues, why are you satisfied with the outcome of this case, and presumably others like it? Is it not a human rights issue when a country's justice department is weighted heavily to favour white people, whether it be incarceration rates for low level drug offenses, random citizens deciding to play cops and robbers, or even worse, actual police providing different standards to human lives when those lives happen to be minorities?

Reply #768399 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

@Anon the USA courts are fair and free in a democratic country and he was not guilty end of story.

I'm big on human rights and hence the concentration camps in china of an ethnic minority are abhorrent.

You mentioned that incarceration rates for low level crimes well you've admitted those that are incarcerated have committed a crime, the ethnic minorities in China (all 2Million +) haven't.

Perhaps legal reform regardless of skin color is whats required in the USA and that why the US has free and fair elections so citizens can freely vote in people/parties that will fix the issues you mention (if they need fixing). If those elected officials don't fix the issue or address the issue then the question is why/why not?


Reply #768414 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Democratic country, lol, the college system is absolute wrought, otherwise H Clinton would be president as she had far more votes than Trump. This doesn't mean that I’m against Trump either just stating facts. Trump also stacked the high court with his people even though it was Obama person that should have been appointed. The republicans just stalled it so they get there people in.

Human rights, again lol, all countries have atrocities in there past and still going on. This has all got to do with money and China saying don’t poke the bear.

Reply #768434 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Its a democratic republic with an electoral college system that ensures all areas of a country are represented and not just large urban centres, otherwise rural communities would effectively be given no attention at all so its probably a very fair system to try and provide a representative government.

Some states are winner takes all which you might say helps or hinders certain parties (depending on the state) compared with a proportional system.

I'm sure in Australia certain political parties would prefer a non preference system but its a prety fair system overall.

China might be sending a warning but to talk about other countries human rights abuses when we clearly know they have millions in concentration camps seems a little rich as no country is perfect but this is Nazi Germany type stuff.








Reply #768440 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Please change your name from Reality because you certainly aren't living in it.

"@Anon the USA courts are fair and free in a democratic country and he was not guilty end of story."

Wow.

Reply #768441 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Lock this insipid and boring thread please.

Reply #768445 | Report this post


rjd  
Last month

"Everyone plays both sides when it suits them."

Not only is this whataboutism again, it is false whataboutism.

"Democratic country, lol, the college system is absolute wrought, ..."

USA is a flawed democracy, #25 on the democracy index. So how is this relevant? This is an eerily similar argument to pro-China propagandists, suggesting because you don't have a perfect democracy, that democracy doesn't work. That is outrageously idiotic.

"Human rights, again lol, all countries have atrocities in there past and still going on."

Are you a troll? This is pathetic.

"...and China saying don't poke the bear."

Yes, it is an overt warning. The CCP is used to doing this type of thing. The CCP, running China as a totalitarian country, have the ability to control the entire business sector. Think billionaires are getting too much power? Numerous cases of billionaires mysteriously vanishing for months. Everyone must fall into line. Alababa's founder, workaholic Jack Ma, suddenly resigns? Criticising the CCP leads to imprisoned, which is why billionaire Guo Wengui can't go back to China.

Reply #768448 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Reality.

The US have a higher percentage of residence in a 'for profit' penal system. And also a higher percentage of minorities.

Please don’t claim the US democracy ‘where a majority’ of it’s citizens vote for a particular person, but someone else wins the election, is pretty fair.

That’s fairy tale stuff.

Reply #768498 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The entire US justice system disproportionately favours the wealthy. If you think it's a fair system, you are either completely ignorant or actually don't care about the impact is had had on minorities for centuries. I suspect with Reality it's both.

Reply #768503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Not to mention the 'president elect' has potentially been acting illegally in asking other countries to interfere with elections.

Reply #768505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Not sure why you referred to him as the president elect. He's the president, and he's been asking foreign countries to interfere in the elections.

Reply #768550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Haha Kaepernick was battling with Blaine Gabbert (who?) for the starting QB position in his final season for a 2-14 49ers team. Yes, teams would've been clamouring for his services if not for the kneeling.

Reply #768810 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Battling with Gabbert, then went on to start and throw 16 TDs 4 INTs. Yes, they would have been.

Reply #768812 | Report this post




 

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