Manu Fieldel
Two weeks ago

Unsportsmanlike foul rule late in games

The late-game unsportsmanlike foul on Bogut was correct under the current Fiba rule. Totally fine. But why in the world is it a rule? I get it and support the rule during regular play. But I'd like to hear why people have no problem with the rule specifically pertaining to late-game intentional fouling. Who is to gain from that? It seems tedious af.

While I'm at it, the 'no timeout on the floor' rule kills so many end-of-game scenarios where players deliberately miss free throws. Kills many a potential Sportscenter moment.

Fiba has dropped the ball on a couple of rulings for mine

Topic #46253 | Report this topic


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

NBL are applying it too stringently.

During the FIBA World Cup you didn't see interpretations like this.

The joke is now late in a game you see players trying to foul obviously and the refs refuse to blow the whistle. It's kind of like they're baiting the offending players to fould harder to then call a USF. It happened today right the end of the game. These NBL refs are perverse!

Classic NBL.

Reply #772328 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two weeks ago

How is the rule different?

I actually like the way it's currently being applied, it seems very clear-cut. Where there is no legitimate attempt to play the ball, it's unsportsmanlike.

Reply #772332 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Two weeks ago

Just make a play at the ball and we wouldn't have this controversy. Simples.

Reply #772337 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Two weeks ago

PW, surely it's a written rule rather than an interpretation? So if that is the case, unfortunately NBL refs technically make the right calls, and Fiba refs simply had more sense for the game?

D2.0, can you be analytical though. Why do you feel that way?

Reply #772339 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two weeks ago

Manu I believe refs in other FIBA-affiliated leagues have more of a feel for the game and the rule. FIBA World Cup had no issue it, yet NBL in a second season and it's still a major issue. All the NBL crew had to was watch the World Cup but were probably too busy fantasising about the video review system. Who is actually in charge of NBL officials? They aren't doing their job.

Reply #772342 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two weeks ago

Just end the game if the winning team has the ball with less than 24 seconds on the clock.

Reply #772343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

fkn ruined the ending

dickheads

Reply #772346 | Report this post


Blerg  
Two weeks ago

For anybody who hasn't read the actual rule, this is it. I think you’ll find Criteria 1 was met on Boguts and Criteria 5 on Wares.

Seems a difficult set of criteria to apply based on the 'feel’. Either meets the criteria or it doesn’t. Don’t think officials have the freedom to say it meets the criteria. It they’re not going to apply it.

The Criteria for Unsportsmanlike Fouls

The following are the 5 criteria for Unsportsmanlike Fouls as per FIBA rules:

Criteria 1 (C1): Not a legitimate attempt to play the ball within the spirit and intent of the rules.

Criteria 2 (C2): Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball or an opponent.

Criteria 3 (C3): An unnecessary contact caused by the defensive player in order to stop the progress of the offensive team in transition. This applies until the offensive player begins the act of shooting.

Criteria 4 (C4): Contact by the defensive player from behind or laterally on an opponent in an attempt to stop the fast break and there is no defensive player between the offensive player and the opponent’s basket. This applies until the offensive player begins the act of shooting.

Criteria 5 (C5): Contact by the defensive player on an opponent on the playing court during the last 2 minutes in the last period and in each extra period, when the ball is out of-bounds for a throw-in and still the hands of the official or at the disposal of the player taking the throw-in.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

over regulated like the flop ruling, but that is autralia - the country of over regulation.

Reply #772348 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two weeks ago

The rules has been around, in one form or another, for a long time, but it often seemed to be very rarely applied, very subjective, and inconsistent.

Now I'll admit, that watching the refs go marching off to the tv dude for a review, ruins the flow of the game. BUT at least the application of the rule seems more consistent.

I don't know what is different about the rule in the last two minutes??

But what has always annoyed me is the difference between a deliberate foul, and it actually being called as unsportsmanlike. Now it seems to be much clearer. You can foul, but must make a legitimate attempt at the ball.

Reply #772352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Mayberry is an attention whore.

Reply #772364 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two weeks ago

This was the fifth time Bogut has committed a clear USF in the past week.

Why are we still complaining about the rule instead of about Bogut making dumb plays?

Reply #772375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

koberulz, Bogut is the MVP. He should get a free pass as he puts bums on seats.

Reply #772380 | Report this post


Rod  
Two weeks ago

I dont have an issue with the Bogut USF or the Ware USF, but the non USF on Trimble surely people can agree he was clearly trying to stop a fast break and was not in a position to make a play at the ball nor was that his intention.

Reply #772408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I don't love the rule, but I can't believe players are so dumb that they still haven't adapted and regularly give away an USF. Feels like every game has at least a couple where guys clearly don't make a play for the ball, get called for USF and act surprised about it.

Reply #772409 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two weeks ago

Just to be clear on the criteria above, they are the criteria to UPGRADE a contact foul. eg: under C5, you don't commit a foul just by touching

Reply #772412 | Report this post


rjd  
Two weeks ago

"Why are we still complaining about the rule instead of about Bogut making dumb plays?"

Agreed. There might be growing pains as players adapt to the new rules, or understanding how stringently refs are calling them, but it's totally on the players for the ending of the Melb vs Syd game.

Not sure if I will maintain this position, but I like the rules. They create disincentives for plays that really shouldn't be rewarded: lazy intentional fouling. NBA rules, with ref-assisted strategic fouls and more opportunities to call time-outs with ball advancements, might create more opportunities for end of game heroics, but for me it is too contrived; it's a bit like handing out cheat codes or wildcards. It's like arcade vs simulation.


It was disappointing for the game to be decided by unsportsmanlike fouls. but when players actually consider their actions more carefully with these rules in place we won't see these kinds of situations as often.

Reply #772414 | Report this post


Bear  
Two weeks ago

I would rather this than allowing the 'Hack a Shack' any day of the week, just saying...

Reply #772422 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

There has never been any Hack a Shaq in the NBL. We're strictly talking about fouling to stop the clock which has always been the end game strategy when you’re down. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime in these situations.

Reply #772429 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

772409, that was the right call on Trimble. He made what appeared to be a genuine attempt on the ball, even it stealing it was unlikely. Contact was with the front of the Wares body because he slipped under when reaching.

If it had been a straight hip and shoulder it would have been an unsportsmanlike.

Reply #772435 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Trimble reached around the front had no chance off getting the ball, it was unsportsmanlike. He got lucky or home cooking.

Reply #772438 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The fact it was a low % play doesn't meant there was no legitimate attempt. Contrast his reach with a Bogut simple swapping Barlow’s are up and you’ll see the difference between a legitimate attempt (even if low %) and no legitimate attempt.

Reply #772445 | Report this post


36Boggers  
Two weeks ago

Yep, the games are too 'over umpired' now, the constant reviews are tedious - the inconsistency of how an unsportsmanlike foul is called during play makes no sense.

I do think they have it right however when there is a clear path or its a really obvious whack with no play at the ball. But sometimes in the heat of the moment you just naturally reach, hoping to get the ball, and thats where the natural flow or spirit of the game is lost. Never seemed to be an issue over the last 20 years.

Reply #772452 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Two weeks ago

Just play super aggressive legal defense and get the steal or the foul.

Why should you be able to break the rules at the end of the game so we can watch free throws and stretch the game out 10 minutes longer than it has to be?

Whats the percentage of teams actually getting a win from using that tactic anyway, I can't imagine its higher than 10%.

Reply #772458 | Report this post


FM  
Two weeks ago

Spot on Alex.

The team winning and playing by the rules should not lose a game by the opposition breaking rules to gain an advantage.

I wouldn't mind seeing the old possession or free throws rule come back which probably attempted to address this issue far better than the USF options.

Reply #772490 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

"Manu I believe refs in other FIBA-affiliated leagues have more of a feel for the game and the rule. FIBA World Cup had no issue it, yet NBL in a second season and it's still a major issue."

Exactly.

Reply #772506 | Report this post




 

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