Anonymous
Earlier this year

Let ticky touchwood fouls go: Mitchell

Simon Mitchell expressed frustration at the refereeing after the Friday game against Perth.

______

Both teams were frustrated by some of the fouls called, particularly in the first half.

The Phoenix collected four team fouls in 90 seconds to start the second term; bettered only by Perth picking up five team fouls within 53 seconds not long after.

Mitchell says the calls weren't just against his side, but believes the referees should be encouraged to let some of the doubtful ones go.

"The 14,000 people come here to see the stars play at their best and I don't get some of the decisions that get made," Mitchell said.

"Maybe it's a foul, maybe it's not. If it's easy to call, easy to let go - let it go!

"I just thought there was too much ticky touchwood stuff that hampered both teams.

"Let them play.

"There is a kid like Dane Pineau, who is playing really good basketball. He gets whistled for too early; that's not what people come here for."

Topic #46745 | Report this topic


Timberball  
Earlier this year

I didn't go to see Dane Pineau...No one goes to a game to see Dane Pineau.

I did go to see Plumlee block shots which I was robbed of because of useless referees.

Reply #787267 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

> "The 14,000 people come here to see the stars play"

> Proceeds to name Pineau.

Reply #787268 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

NBL want higher scoring games and none of the stifling Perth type hidden holding or "caught in the cookie jar" type stuff I imagine. Can't really have it both ways

Reply #787269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

To be fair to Mitchell he also mentioned Plumlee when he talked about fouls taking players out of the game.

Reply #787271 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Pineau moves on every screen, has all season, grabs and holds, the refs catching up with him so coach whinges. While I thought the refs were bad in both game last night, overall the season it all pans out. Players make mistakes, stats people make mistakes, coaches make mistakes, it's the nature of sport.

Reply #787278 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Ah well, can't grab and hold - should be pinged then

Reply #787282 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

.

Reply #787287 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

9:50 Cotton - not a foul
9:26 Adnam - clearly a hand foul
9:13 Wesley - clearly a moving screen
8:10 Pineau - moving screen, but could have been let go
7:56 Adnam - minimal contact, but probably a good call to protect a shooter mid-air

Reply #787289 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

7:42 Plumlee - looked clean, but can't be sure from the tv camera angle
7:36 Steindl - clearly a hand check foul
7:22 Wagstaff - not a foul (although Trev did spit the dummy over nothing immediately prior, so karma)
7:13 Wagstaff - clearly a blocking foul

IMO 4 were clearly fouls, 2 bad calls, 3 dubious calls.

Reply #787290 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Earlier this year

Let the hand towel go Mitchell.

Reply #787293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think the point is that the games are being over officiated and it's hard to disagree with that assertion

Reply #787299 | Report this post


FSTOS  
Earlier this year

WTF is ticky touchwood.

Reply #787301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Soft calls that have little impact on the game

Reply #787303 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[7:56 Adnam - minimal contact, but probably a good call to protect a shooter mid-air]

Protect the shooter from what? Having defense played against them?

Oh, hang on, that is the whole point isn't it - higher scoring games, so let's just invent foul calls until people stop playing D.

It's working I guess.

Reply #787304 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

LV, it's significantly more difficult to make a shot when you're nudged while mid-air. Adnam also didn't establish a legal guarding position within his cylinder when the refs deemed contact was made, so therefore it's not legal.

It's also possible to play defense legally - just FYI.

Apologies, I thought these things were self explanatory. I'll be sure to explain in more detail for you next time.

Reply #787306 | Report this post


Play better defence  
Earlier this year

Every call/non call has an impact on the game.

If players are going to be let off for 'soft' fouls then in effect they are going to allowed to have 6, 7 or more fouls per game. This clearly disadvantages t hose playing within the rules who don't make 'soft' fouls during the game.

Im sure anyone playing Sydney would want Bogut called for any soft fouls he commits in the early part of the game as he is a hell of a lot less effective in the 4th quarter sitting on 4 fouls rather than 1 or 2


Reply #787308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Ffs lv you can't take a shooters landing space and he did. I thought Mitchells presser was excellent, Will Weaver could learn alot. He made it clear the way the game was called ruined the spectacle for the fans, it did. He cited dane as a young guy breaking out and plumlee as a major draw,both getting taken out of the game, it was extremely diplomatic and blunt.

Reply #787309 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I went to the game to watch the refs! Got more than my moneys worth. Keep it up green men

Reply #787311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

dear playmaker - there should only be a foul called if there is a disadvantage created. many of those "fouls" there was no disadvantage, no effect on the play or the game at all.

how about the holding call on the screen - where the shot was counted. if that was in the last minute and the losing team did the same exact foul, the refs would have gone to the bench and called an usf.

totally over reffed.

The refs should be fined $100 each time they go to a video replay, because basically they missed the call and had to check.

Reply #787313 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Adnam barely brushed him, let alone "nudged" him.

Cotton is a protected species inside Perth Arena.

Reply #787314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Oh good, another discussion about refereeing featuring LV. This will be good for a laugh.

Reply #787319 | Report this post


Cats for life  
Earlier this year

We never going to agree on the officials, win or lose, Lv take a close look on how much cotton gets grabbed and hit!

Last night especially was way over the top, the game never had a chance to flow.

Reply #787320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Adnam is statue on defence, it was a foul. Mitchell team is full of poor defenders who never establish position and believe waving your arms around is defence. He's trying to get his team back on track and needs poor defence reward so he whinges to the refs, simple. I’ll leave Creek out that and Wesley plays D also.

Reply #787322 | Report this post


skull  
Earlier this year

Mitchell is being exposed as a very very ordinary NBL coach with a reasonable team.....

Reply #787323 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No other than a few players it's a shit team. Some reputations are large but there either past it or not that good.

Reply #787325 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

"dear playmaker - there should only be a foul called if there is a disadvantage created. many of those "fouls" there was no disadvantage, no effect on the play or the game at all."

I agree, hence 3 of the calls were dubious in my opinion... Are you going to make a point?

Reply #787326 | Report this post


skull  
Earlier this year

Anon- SEM are potentially a better team then they have performed, Coach looks like he is trying to be mates with the players instead of calling them out....dangerous move ie. "Under the bus you go coach"

Reply #787328 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Earlier this year

Lv is happy to bitch about Cotton. But when CG43 or Casper Ware when at United kicked out their legs, crickets.

Reply #787330 | Report this post


orbit  
Earlier this year

Simon Mitchell is spot on.

He's always been a great bloke who loves the game & all those in it - similar to Mike Kelly! He will also reap the rewards after a year in the big man shoes. No one gets it right straight up.

The umpires need to put their whistles away it's as simple as that!! Let the boys play. Stop rewarding flops & just don't call!!

More no calls pls.

Watch how quickly it cleans up...

Go back to 2 umpires with 3 reviews per coach.

Quit stopping the action...



Reply #787331 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Dan Shamir made a point earlier in the season, if Cotton did the leg kick in Europe he would get an unsportsmanlike foul himself. It's ridiculous in the NBL the defender is penalized when aiming to keep their distance.

Reply #787332 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cats fan and I 100% agree with Mitchell, fans want to see the players play. League refereeing is ruining the TV and game night spectacle with 3 refs who want to be the centre of attention.

Hope the league owners realise better to innovate to make the product more free flowing than following every rule to strictest interpretation.

Reply #787333 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

WTF is ticky touchwood.

LOL. This.

Reply #787336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"if Cotton did the leg kick in Europe he would get an unsportsmanlike foul himself. "
bullshit

"It's ridiculous in the NBL the defender is penalized when aiming to keep their distance."
No, they're no keeping their distance, that's the whole point.
If you are closing out a shooter, ie moving, you can't enter their "cylinder" its simple.

If you listen to the commentary, Anstey explains it well, the problem is lack of close-out drills by coaches, and lack of discipline by the defenders.

Reply #787337 | Report this post


skull  
Earlier this year

For sure would be good for the refs to put their whistles away though....like the big no call travelling dunk from Terrico, that's what fans pay to see!!

Reply #787339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cotton doesn't kick his legs out to draw contact when shooting.

Reply #787340 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Mitchell lacks the calmness of an elite coach but I can't blame him for criticising the refs after last night.

Reply #787341 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cotton kicks his legs into the defenders cylinder. It's not a normal action.

Reply #787342 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

" there should only be a foul called if there is a disadvantage created. "

So that would eliminate a lot of shooting fouls.

Reply #787348 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

Here's a thought - the more refs you have on the floor, the more often such doubtful fouls will be called.

If there’s a "ticky touchwood" foul, then that probably means there’s a 50:50 chance that any given ref would call it or not call it. That means that with three refs, there’s only a 1 in 8 chance that none of the three refs blow their whistle. So a 7 in 8 chance that at least one of them will call the foul.

Training and experience would change those odds but I reckon you’re still left with the odds being more likely - maybe still a lot more likely - than not that at least one of the refs will call any given “ticky touchwood” foul.. Probably more likely with new refs and crews not used to reffing together.

Reply #787350 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Refs look after their own zones of the court. 3 refs would virtually never all see the same incident

Reply #787352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Shamir was talking about Randle desperately milking it wasn't he?

Reply #787353 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

It's easy to say that the refs should put the whistle and the game will clean itself up. We know that's BS because the league did that not long ago and the result was a deplorable, boring slugfest game in, game out. How quickly people forget.

Reply #787356 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

YouTube 'Bryce Cotton 4 point plays 2018/19'.
Simply watch where his feet are in relation to the three point line and where they land on his shots. 80% of the time in that compilation he lands outside his straight up and down cylinder which is where the defender is aiming to avoid.

Reply #787357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Mitchell should lose the towel , stop wearing runners with his suit and stop whinging. Poor coach being exposed. Looks way out of his depth.

Reply #787358 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"WTF is ticky touchwood.
LOL. This."

You seriously think some metrosexual millenial would know this expresssion? You keep coming up with so much stupid shit Perthworld.

Reply #787359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Check out Cadee's third quarter buzzer beater today. If that was Cotton, the ref would have also called the foul and it would have been a 4 point play.

Reply #787365 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"YouTube 'Bryce Cotton 4 point plays 2018/19'.
Simply watch where his feet are in relation to the three point line and where they land on his shots. 80% of the time in that compilation he lands outside his straight up and down cylinder which is where the defender is aiming to avoid."

Where he lands is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is whether the defender is playing legal defense and in most (but not all) cases it is not legal because the defender is moving laterally or towards him when contact is made.

Reply #787366 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There is no "straight up and down cylinder." The shooter is entitled to land without having a defender occupy the space he is landing.

Reply #787367 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Shooter isn't entitled to shit if the defender was there first

Reply #787370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

We're talking about moving defenders, genius.

Reply #787386 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Earlier this year

"3 refs would virtually never all see the same incident"

Fair point. Nonetheless, people frequently accuse the wrong ref of making the foul call, and there are regular on court instances of two refs calling the same play and sorting it out on court. Suggests refs are seeing the same stuff much of the time.

Reply #787412 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There was a call tonihgt in the Cairns game in the 4th? The lead ref was behind the play and called a foul, There was no way that that ref could have seen anything in that incident as all the ref would seen was 2 players backs. The fron view forom the cams showed SFA contact which the out of position ref could never have see, I was always taught as a ref "call what you saw", "not what you thought you saw"

Reply #787438 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cotton shoots with the same motion all the time, players get caught out because he has a lot of elevation on his shot allowing them more time to get close before his release, by then they are in his landing space, he is entitled to move forward when he shoots and does so consistently with the same form, it is hardly am unnatural or wild kicking out motion. If it was, he wouldn't be such a good shot.

Reply #787439 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

You're entitled to jump forwards on a jumpshot.

My issue is that a defender's pinky finger arguably brushes past the shadow of Cotton's singlet and.....foul. 3 shots or worse, 4 point play. Happens all the time.

Reply #787451 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[You're entitled to jump forwards on a jumpshot.]

And the foul is about who establishes position first. Since the defender is usually trailing, Cotton usually launches the shot before the defender establishes position in front. That's not the issue.

It's that they're "protecting the shooter" too much, especially if his name is Bryce

Reply #787452 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sounds like a preemptive whinge from LV, now that the Cats are proving to be title favourites.

Reply #787475 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cats will never be title favourites. NZ beat the Kings with no Bogut. Immediately Cats are favs. Bullshit.

Reply #787502 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What?

Reply #787509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

As a supporter who has had ware formerly, cg43, long and trimble play for them and get rewarded for every head bob ever, i think your argument is a little rich, if anything cottons landing space has mot been protected as well this year.

Reply #787554 | Report this post


Senator11  
Earlier this year

There are fouls called on a made 3pt shot in the majority of games I've watched this year, not just Wildcats. The increase in volume of 3's taken is increasing and the defence just hasn't caught up yet. Pretty sure Coenraad leads the league in 4pt plays, but have seen Cotton, Terrico, Randle, Ware, Roberson, Blanchfield all regularly get fouled on the a 3pt shot. Defenders need to adjust.

Reply #787737 | Report this post




 

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